Maintenance for the week of February 23:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
ZOS - How do you win?
Nuksuu
✭✭✭
Whilst this is penned to ZOS, I thought that it might be timely for anyone interested in game development, balance, bugs, successes, failures and other sundry topics that emerge on the forums to meditate on this also.
I've been playing MMORPGs since 2002. By extension, I've been lurking around gaming forum boards for about the same amount of time. The same issues crop up as though they are the staple diet of the blank thread space just waiting to be filled with what ends up being the same issues. I have just been pondering this over the last few weeks whilst playing and especially, reading these boards:
Bugs - This is a no-brainer. If you fix the bugs, have all quests working as intended, have server stability and people not getting stuck in walls etc...then you are heading in the right direction. I have full faith in ZOS to be working on this as a priority. MMOs live and die largely due to the speed with which they get on top of this.
Bots - Yes...it has been done to death. However, as someone who has played since launch I have seen a drastic drop off in bot activity as far as I can see. Now whatever they are getting up to in the realm that I can't see (under the map for example), I really can't say whether it has proliferated or dropped off. However, bot trains, the great Jute caper and chat spam have all withered away to minimal levels. Yes, I do go back to Stonefalls regularly before I have that accusation thrown at me. Good job on this and considering the fledgling stage of the game, you have to give them a silver (not gold) star for this. Client side/Server side control is still an issue but things are better.
Content - Now it gets trickier. For people like me, a casual gamer with hard-core leanings, I have bundles of content to get through with two VR1 toons. Whether I find quests 'boring' is entirely perspective; you have to know what you signed up for when you opened an account with an MMORPG. There will be an actual ROLE for you to play. Lots of people want your help. If you find this boring, I can understand that. However, there is an abundance of content for the majority of players if I was to hazard a guess. If you have finished all of the content...bully for you but I really don't know what you will do now if you have an aversion to PvP or mat collecting. I think that it is paced correctly for the majority.
PvP - Apart from the known issues with oil, caltrops etc., I think that the PvP is great. If you don't like PvP then this is good for you because all of the more murderous of us get a special sandpit to play in...a very big one. I would also give this a silver star. Gold is just out of reach as I think that dueling and/or arenas would be an excellent extension of PvP. World PvP is tricky. People will get upset. Before we start yelling about carebears and powerplayers, consider this:
You are questing peacefully in Stonefalls enjoying the ashy scenery. You are proud of your level 14 achievement and are pretty sure that you can take down the 3 baddies in front of you if you don't stuff it up. As you move forward, a hurricane of fists, boots, staves, clothy robes, lightning, fireballs and hell itself moves through your attack area. Now, either these two dueling players have wasted your mobs (could be a good thing) or everything within 2 kilometres has been aggroed and whilst the brawlers have moved on, maybe that ill-timed AoE you discharged has now worked out quite badly for you.
This is a fairly minimal and fringe scenario but I am just saying that World PvP will leave a trail of innocent victims. Dueling grounds or an Arena (for a Championship Badge even) would be applauded by many. I would certainly go and watch and participate. I like killing people and watching people killing people as much as the next maladjusted human being.
Class Balance - Almost too hot to handle. This is where ZOS must tread so very carefully. Yes, we know where things are under-powered (elements of NB and Templar as examples) but the nerf bat is a most cursed item. Its like that game at the arcade where you hit a gopher and another pops up. That is because they are all connected. Similarly, all of these classes are connected whether you see it or not. You hit one, the other pops up into prominence. You hit that one...another takes its place. As I said...very tricky. Things this complex take a lot of time to get right and I can say from experience, can be the death of any MMORPG. No stars awarded yet for this as it is still being developed. A bit of criticism about NB not working as intended but I see that you have a plan to gradually fix it. Let's see how that goes.
Build Balance - Stamina builds don't seem to work too well. I have two because obviously I was too stupid to realise the first time that Magicka builds outdid Stamina builds in almost every way. But...'play with any class build you like' stuck with me and so I did. Sadly, I am struggling to make them playable but I switch stuff out, change my approach to certain mobs, sneak around others and generally make do until this is addressed as I believe it will be. I wish I had known more about my stats but that is my own fault. I was horrified in the early days to learn that a friend in a dungeon had zero health, zero stamina and 15 magicka...I was sure that he would die on the first mob. He is the only one that didn't die during the whole expedition. To this day I feel guilty about the 11 points I have in health; why doesn't it make a difference? I didn't sign on to play 'Wizard Wars' but I am not naive enough to think that this was the intention from ZOS anyway. Further testing during Beta, taking on-board feedback during Beta and correcting it may have made it less worse than it currently is. If anyone can post a link to an excellent thread on Armour/Damage Mitigation, Physical and Spell Resistance and how it all works, I would appreciate it. I don't quite understand how I am being beaten to death in full plate by some guys with clubs whilst someone in a dress destroys their entire culture and probably their entire race with a stick. However, spilt milk and all that so hopefully we will see it move to a more equitable position in the game.
Crafting - You get a silvery almost goldy star for this. Now the crafting system is not as complex as, for example, the system employed by SWG. However, it is more accessible and understandable for the entire player base; everyone can get in on it which is great. Bots compromise mats but that has improved as mentioned before and there are even special armour sets that can be made. All very good. Crafters of course always want more crafting! The crafting boards have lots of suggestions mainly related to future speculations to do with housing and other sub-sets of existing crafting. It has started off well with only minor problems and continues to go well. A player economy has evolved and is largely self-regulated which is great. Housing will sustain a lot of subs judging from the size of the crafting community. It must be and can be done right. However, I know that it is not a priority. It is not 'fluff' as some may think. If you are a Carpenter, Metalworker, Glassmaker, Upholsterer and a whole new area of content, revenue and social events open up as a result...then I refute that this is fluff.
Werewolves and Vampires - I'm not going to comment on Vampires here as I've not had much time to read threads on them. Neither of my two main toons are Vamps. They are both, however, Werewolves. I am hesitant to give a bronze star here. We all know what is broken...oh so very broken, with this part of the game. I don't think that even with fixes Werewolves will ever be overpowered. It is important to remember that Vamps can use their skills with far more ease than WWs. We have to transform (and all that killing just to get there) and like some rare orchid, we live briefly in all our glory before withering away. Not a good start for Werewolves but I hold out some strange hope that it will be fixed. I think that it is far lower down the 'to do' list than general gaming/quest bugs, bots and exploits. So it should be.
Veteran Ranking and Content - I have limited experience. I am still VR1 on both characters...and proabably will be for some time judging from the minute movements that I see on my xp bar when I do something for someone and they give me money or something that I immediately decon. I don't feel qualified to speak on it but have a feeling of dread. I do admit that this is largely from posts on these boards BUT it does mean that conversely, I cannot complain about content...only progression.
Feel free to rank/list/comment on what you see as priority fixes/balances and what you think will keep this game robust and with plenty of subs. I want to see it succeed and from experiences with other games, know that we are probably looking about 12-18 months before we see something that will inspire loyalty or leaving.
2 cents.
I've been playing MMORPGs since 2002. By extension, I've been lurking around gaming forum boards for about the same amount of time. The same issues crop up as though they are the staple diet of the blank thread space just waiting to be filled with what ends up being the same issues. I have just been pondering this over the last few weeks whilst playing and especially, reading these boards:
Bugs - This is a no-brainer. If you fix the bugs, have all quests working as intended, have server stability and people not getting stuck in walls etc...then you are heading in the right direction. I have full faith in ZOS to be working on this as a priority. MMOs live and die largely due to the speed with which they get on top of this.
Bots - Yes...it has been done to death. However, as someone who has played since launch I have seen a drastic drop off in bot activity as far as I can see. Now whatever they are getting up to in the realm that I can't see (under the map for example), I really can't say whether it has proliferated or dropped off. However, bot trains, the great Jute caper and chat spam have all withered away to minimal levels. Yes, I do go back to Stonefalls regularly before I have that accusation thrown at me. Good job on this and considering the fledgling stage of the game, you have to give them a silver (not gold) star for this. Client side/Server side control is still an issue but things are better.
Content - Now it gets trickier. For people like me, a casual gamer with hard-core leanings, I have bundles of content to get through with two VR1 toons. Whether I find quests 'boring' is entirely perspective; you have to know what you signed up for when you opened an account with an MMORPG. There will be an actual ROLE for you to play. Lots of people want your help. If you find this boring, I can understand that. However, there is an abundance of content for the majority of players if I was to hazard a guess. If you have finished all of the content...bully for you but I really don't know what you will do now if you have an aversion to PvP or mat collecting. I think that it is paced correctly for the majority.
PvP - Apart from the known issues with oil, caltrops etc., I think that the PvP is great. If you don't like PvP then this is good for you because all of the more murderous of us get a special sandpit to play in...a very big one. I would also give this a silver star. Gold is just out of reach as I think that dueling and/or arenas would be an excellent extension of PvP. World PvP is tricky. People will get upset. Before we start yelling about carebears and powerplayers, consider this:
You are questing peacefully in Stonefalls enjoying the ashy scenery. You are proud of your level 14 achievement and are pretty sure that you can take down the 3 baddies in front of you if you don't stuff it up. As you move forward, a hurricane of fists, boots, staves, clothy robes, lightning, fireballs and hell itself moves through your attack area. Now, either these two dueling players have wasted your mobs (could be a good thing) or everything within 2 kilometres has been aggroed and whilst the brawlers have moved on, maybe that ill-timed AoE you discharged has now worked out quite badly for you.
This is a fairly minimal and fringe scenario but I am just saying that World PvP will leave a trail of innocent victims. Dueling grounds or an Arena (for a Championship Badge even) would be applauded by many. I would certainly go and watch and participate. I like killing people and watching people killing people as much as the next maladjusted human being.
Class Balance - Almost too hot to handle. This is where ZOS must tread so very carefully. Yes, we know where things are under-powered (elements of NB and Templar as examples) but the nerf bat is a most cursed item. Its like that game at the arcade where you hit a gopher and another pops up. That is because they are all connected. Similarly, all of these classes are connected whether you see it or not. You hit one, the other pops up into prominence. You hit that one...another takes its place. As I said...very tricky. Things this complex take a lot of time to get right and I can say from experience, can be the death of any MMORPG. No stars awarded yet for this as it is still being developed. A bit of criticism about NB not working as intended but I see that you have a plan to gradually fix it. Let's see how that goes.
Build Balance - Stamina builds don't seem to work too well. I have two because obviously I was too stupid to realise the first time that Magicka builds outdid Stamina builds in almost every way. But...'play with any class build you like' stuck with me and so I did. Sadly, I am struggling to make them playable but I switch stuff out, change my approach to certain mobs, sneak around others and generally make do until this is addressed as I believe it will be. I wish I had known more about my stats but that is my own fault. I was horrified in the early days to learn that a friend in a dungeon had zero health, zero stamina and 15 magicka...I was sure that he would die on the first mob. He is the only one that didn't die during the whole expedition. To this day I feel guilty about the 11 points I have in health; why doesn't it make a difference? I didn't sign on to play 'Wizard Wars' but I am not naive enough to think that this was the intention from ZOS anyway. Further testing during Beta, taking on-board feedback during Beta and correcting it may have made it less worse than it currently is. If anyone can post a link to an excellent thread on Armour/Damage Mitigation, Physical and Spell Resistance and how it all works, I would appreciate it. I don't quite understand how I am being beaten to death in full plate by some guys with clubs whilst someone in a dress destroys their entire culture and probably their entire race with a stick. However, spilt milk and all that so hopefully we will see it move to a more equitable position in the game.
Crafting - You get a silvery almost goldy star for this. Now the crafting system is not as complex as, for example, the system employed by SWG. However, it is more accessible and understandable for the entire player base; everyone can get in on it which is great. Bots compromise mats but that has improved as mentioned before and there are even special armour sets that can be made. All very good. Crafters of course always want more crafting! The crafting boards have lots of suggestions mainly related to future speculations to do with housing and other sub-sets of existing crafting. It has started off well with only minor problems and continues to go well. A player economy has evolved and is largely self-regulated which is great. Housing will sustain a lot of subs judging from the size of the crafting community. It must be and can be done right. However, I know that it is not a priority. It is not 'fluff' as some may think. If you are a Carpenter, Metalworker, Glassmaker, Upholsterer and a whole new area of content, revenue and social events open up as a result...then I refute that this is fluff.
Werewolves and Vampires - I'm not going to comment on Vampires here as I've not had much time to read threads on them. Neither of my two main toons are Vamps. They are both, however, Werewolves. I am hesitant to give a bronze star here. We all know what is broken...oh so very broken, with this part of the game. I don't think that even with fixes Werewolves will ever be overpowered. It is important to remember that Vamps can use their skills with far more ease than WWs. We have to transform (and all that killing just to get there) and like some rare orchid, we live briefly in all our glory before withering away. Not a good start for Werewolves but I hold out some strange hope that it will be fixed. I think that it is far lower down the 'to do' list than general gaming/quest bugs, bots and exploits. So it should be.
Veteran Ranking and Content - I have limited experience. I am still VR1 on both characters...and proabably will be for some time judging from the minute movements that I see on my xp bar when I do something for someone and they give me money or something that I immediately decon. I don't feel qualified to speak on it but have a feeling of dread. I do admit that this is largely from posts on these boards BUT it does mean that conversely, I cannot complain about content...only progression.
Feel free to rank/list/comment on what you see as priority fixes/balances and what you think will keep this game robust and with plenty of subs. I want to see it succeed and from experiences with other games, know that we are probably looking about 12-18 months before we see something that will inspire loyalty or leaving.
2 cents.
@Nuksuu - Werewolf Rights Advocate
- Ursi Yarsbruk - Nord Night Blade (Rank 10 Berserker Werewolf)
- Ingrid Tralvheim - Nord Templar (Rank 10 Berserker Werewolf)
11
-
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My eyes glazed over just a bit, but I agree with what my little brain could handle.
/awesome1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭World PVP has no place in this game and will drive lots of people away. WOW shows the griefing that can be done even on PVE servers by the jerks who make up a proportion of PVPers .. those that use the term carebears are usually in that group
They can't, since the issues you raise as well as others are mainly subjective 'likes' and 'dislikes' and so pleasing some players is guaranteed to upset others.ZOS - How do you win?
ZOS have to decide which segments of the playerbase they want to please .. which is one reason I'm personally unhappy with the way they're pandering to the 'achievers' and the 'why play an MMO solo?'-ers by taking the game into forced-grouping to level-up territory from the 1990s.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on June 11, 2014 8:44AM1 -
Nuksuu✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »World PVP has no place in this game and will drive lots of people away. WOW shows the griefing that can be done even on PVE servers by the jerks who make up a proportion of PVPers .. those that use the term carebears are usually in that group
They can't, since the issues you raise as well as others are mainly subjective 'likes' and 'dislikes' and so pleasing some players is guaranteed to upset others.ZOS - How do you win?
ZOS have to decide which segments of the playerbase they want to please .. which is one reason I'm personally unhappy with the way they're pandering to the 'achievers' and the 'why play an MMO solo?'-ers by taking the game into forced-grouping to level-up territory from the 1990s.
You bring up a great point and one which I alluded too but didn't state directly. You did and I admire that it is so.
Pandering to one or the other groups (even more than two groups perhaps) is just so dangerous. As you said, you please one and upset the other. This is sadly where perhaps market research kicks in and identifies what really constitutes the majority of their player base by style.
Impartial and fair balance where you can't please all the people all of the time (but enough of them enough of the time for them to enjoy it) is the key.
Good points and you obviously have seen this happen before.@Nuksuu - Werewolf Rights Advocate- Ursi Yarsbruk - Nord Night Blade (Rank 10 Berserker Werewolf)
- Ingrid Tralvheim - Nord Templar (Rank 10 Berserker Werewolf)
0
