ESO should have a more Elder Scrolls like leveling experience

Gern_Verkheart

The title pretty much sums it up. In "oblivion,' "Skyrim," "Morrowind," etc, I could go where I wanted, whenever I wanted (provided it wasn't an area exclusive to a particular quest chain, like Sovnguard) and it never hurt my character progression.

In ESO, I want to see that system. The devs listened to us before, in the Beta. We all told them we didn't like that we had to finish the starting island in order to get to the real questing zones, so they changed it.

If I want to go quest in Shadowfen as a level 4, I should be able to. if I want to skip the battle with Moleg-Bal, and go to the veteran zones, I should be able to. If I want to start doing veteran quests in the Aldmeri Dominion Areas before going to the Daggerfal Covenant areas (I'm a pact player) then I should be able to. I should never be able to out-level quests, I should be able to skip quests in stonefield, and come back as a veteran 5, and they still give me the same amount of character progression.

In short: zones should not be tied to a particular level. In order to better understand what I am saying, look at the leveling system in Guild Wars 2. That leveling system is more of an elder scrolls leveling system than Elder scrolls Online! In Guild wars 2, the game scales your character up or down depending in the zone they are in, so you can go quest in any zone, at any level, and still get the same amount of character progression. In Guild Wars 2 you can level how you want, isn't that what ESO was supposed to be?

Daethz

I agree with most of this, but it should be implemented differently

Without battle experience you wouldn't last long in a battle with molag baal.
The only reason you stood a chance is because of how much experience you got on your way to him.

Phantax

I agree with this, we need more freedom in our leveling experience

Shouldn't even need a POLL for this one ! (shame on you Zenimax)

Lalai

I agree with most of this, but it should be implemented differently

There definitely needs to be more variation for leveling.. however I'm not quite sure how to do it. I think if they made everything level to you with their current system.. it would make grouping for anything an absolute nightmare cause of phasing. Like, more of a nightmare than it already is.

Until they get phasing fixed to where we can group, and maybe even add a system to level down to folks you're grouped with, I actually kinda prefer it how it is now. So I agree, but at the same time I think a lot of stuff would need to change in game prior to implementing a system like that.

Cogo

More people who completely missed the point of ESO.

Wintersage

Did not vote. You left out:

[x] I'd rather a more ES like skill-system, rather than an unfeasible open-world exploration system. I understand that something like that is too difficult to do in any kind've MMO setting, whereas an open skill-system is truly the only place wherein lies all the epic.

Crisscross

I agree with most of this, but it should be implemented differently

I would remind you that GW2 only featured DOWNscaling, so you could only revisit zones you outleveled. You couldn't skip ahead to higher level zones as a low level.

While I agree that non-linearity in a game is always a good thing, it just seems a bit complicated with implementing it in ESO, unless a complete revamp were done to the entire game to make it more a sandbox like EVE or SWG.

stabbykitteh

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

The thing you might have forgotten about Morrowind, is that while you could go anywhere you wanted, you'd get your bottom handed to you if you were under-leveled for the content. Just like ESO.

idk

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

Way to late for this discussion. Kinda odd having this talk 2 months after release. Plus, as the previous poster commented, some previous ESO games may have let you go anywhere, but you were powerless if you went into areas well ahead of you.

With that, you can get to anywhere within the alliance areas you have access to even if your quest has not brought you there. Travel to player works fabulous for this. We can mark this as solved.

Edit, beyond that, another pointless poll. Please nerf the ability to create polls.

AlexDougherty

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

If they did change this, then people would be complaining that they went to the wrong area, got killed instantly, and want a notice for when you are leaving the area you are levelled for.

It's not the same sort of game, accept it and move on.

Whisper292

I agree with most of this, but it should be implemented differently

I do think it should be implemented differently, but I've always felt like the game was too linear. One thing about Skyrim was that wherever you went, your enemies were roughly the same level as you for the most part. I don't know if that's possible in a game like ESO, but if not, being allowed to go to other areas even though you'd get your bottom handed to you should be your choice.

Fairydragon3

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

Blue here, the only thing that I can say about this becasue its an MMO Leveling and skill progress does have to be a lot different compared to the Single player games. However I dont really like how they do End game progression. This is where they should have implemented differently. Instead of forcing people to go from alliance to alliance, they really need to make it feel more like we are traveling through the world, not reading a book. Basically, stop raising the VR level cap to where we need to grind more to catch back up in armor, while the rest of the players fall further behind. this game needs to expand outward, not forward

Gern_Verkheart

I agree with this, we need more freedom in our leveling experience

Wintersage wrote: »

Did not vote. You left out:

[x] I'd rather a more ES like skill-system, rather than an unfeasible open-world exploration system. I understand that something like that is too difficult to do in any kind've MMO setting, whereas an open skill-system is truly the only place wherein lies all the epic.

Actually, it isn't. As I pointed out, it has already been done in a successful MMO: GW2.

Crisscross wrote: »

I would remind you that GW2 only featured DOWNscaling, so you could only revisit zones you outleveled. You couldn't skip ahead to higher level zones as a low level.

While I agree that non-linearity in a game is always a good thing, it just seems a bit complicated with implementing it in ESO, unless a complete revamp were done to the entire game to make it more a sandbox like EVE or SWG.

That is true, but there is no reason that ESO couldn't also have up-scaling.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If they did change this, then people would be complaining that they went to the wrong area, got killed instantly, and want a notice for when you are leaving the area you are levelled for.

It's not the same sort of game, accept it and move on.

As I said in the original post: they should have a level scaling system to compensate for this type of situation, as exists in GW2. It's a shame that we have to look at a non Elder Scrolls MMO to get an Elder Scrolls type leveling experience.

Azzuria

I agree with most of this, but it should be implemented differently

Instead of a huge, open-world sandbox like other ES games, ESO is hampered by the nature of MMOs. It's a series of smaller ( albeit still large ) sandboxes that keep you from being eaten alive. Because MMOs rely on levels ( even TSW, the game without levels ) to scale content, doing away with levels would be hard to do. If they were to attempt, doing it the way TSW does, make wearing higher grade armor / weapons / jewelry require a skill point spent to access it.

Still, I think ZOS has struck a pretty fair balance between an RPG and an MMO. No complaints here.

Anilahation

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

VR zones are basically like other TES games. You can explore that entire zone and don't have to worry about running into a higher level mob

Elder_Thorn

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

well.. you can either do a sandbox MMO or a story driven MMO in my opinion.
This one is a story driven MMO, there is not much you can do about it.
Besides that.. well if you want you can always go to shadowfen with oyur lvl 4 character.

Jankstar

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

Morrowind had areas that were populated with monsters above character level like this ganr,. Monster levels in oblivion scaled, and that was aweful. I like the way this one works. I do not want change, unless it was an overall difficulty increase.

Moiskormoimi

I agree with this, we need more freedom in our leveling experience

If this were a true Elder Scrolls games, there wouldn't be classes at all. Considering all the nerfs that went into their main tank line, why are they still continuing on this path? No class divisions would allow for a true TES experience and show other mmos that you don't have to pigeon holed into one set of attacks.

MrDenimChicken

I agree with this, we need more freedom in our leveling experience

Too late to do this. They would have to make a completely different game involving millions of dollars.

If you think they will do this without completely re-releasing the game, than you guys are delusional.

Kayvee

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

You have to remember, this is an MMORPG not an open-world single player RPG. The world is a static place unlike the previous iterations you mentioned. It's far more dynamic than most MMO's, sure, but it's still an MMO. There has to be consistency and parity when people play through it.

I really enjoy the progression of zone to zone as your character increases in experience and power. Unlike most other MMO's though, once you hit a zone you can go wherever you want and complete the zone in any order, which is where I think the ES flavor comes in.

I have not played GW2, but from everything I've heard about the game it is great up to a certain point but there is no re-playability and no reason to stick around for the long haul.

I'm not, however, an ESO/Zenimax apologist. I think that the leveling system could be improved, and in the case of Veteran Zones, greatly. I'm not convinced Veteran Ranks were even that great of an idea in the first place. I definitely agree that one should be able to choose which faction they go to first after level 50.

GreySix

I agree with this, we need more freedom in our leveling experience

Daethz wrote: »

Without battle experience you wouldn't last long in a battle with molag baal.
The only reason you stood a chance is because of how much experience you got on your way to him.

Not being able to group ... At ANY time ... in an MMO is utter garbage.

nvb5014_ESO

I agree with this, we need more freedom in our leveling experience

The leveling system is a grind, anyway you do it. However some points he made were good. I miss the freedom of doing whatever you wanted first, like the dark brotherhood in skyrim, and then going back and doing the mages guild quests that were now your level. I don't agree with jumping alliance areas, but if I'm in ebonheart and wanted to see riften at level 5, I should be able to visit without getting owned by a 42 lol...

Apsalon

I agree with most of this, but it should be implemented differently

I have no idea how to implement this. You always have to keep in mind: The devs are not necessarily lazy or uncreative. I believe they have come up with rather mind-bogling ideas and fantasies in the long time of development.

Problem is the most innovative system can become a nightmare when proven in the field. In other words the biggest flaw and threat to creative design is the player. Like there would definitely be people who'd exploit things that were intended differently just because they can, i.e. the classfree system.

Long story short:
Enthuisasm is nice and all, but in a game where playstyles may heavily affect each other, you just can not copy paste the system of an offline-game, where you are in no danger of facing other players and their follies.

Cogo

Even over a year before the release of ESO. The Devs said over and over and over again.

ESO is not Skyrim online.

I LOVE skyrim. Played it alot. But I had no illusion that ESO would be like Skyrim. Because of the 100s or so interviews, statements, youtube, information from Zenimax, etc.

I think ESO is a great CORE game to build on!

Phantorang

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

Daethz wrote: »

Without battle experience you wouldn't last long in a battle with molag baal.
The only reason you stood a chance is because of how much experience you got on your way to him.

Just before the fight against Molag Bal we recieved an extremely powerful buff from another God or something close, which made us able to break free from Molag Bals clutches when he picked us up.

That buff was the only reason we were able to solo him.

I hope the OP didnt mean we should be able to do whatever part of the quests we like, for example go straight to Molag Bal at lvl one as the first thing we do?

Phantorang

I do not agree with this, the leveling system is fine

The leveling system is just fine, Ive never felt any need to go anywhere else but the zone im currently questing in.

And ZoS got more than enough stuff to keep them occupied for a very long time, I hope any feature like this falls far behind in their prioritization list of fixes and balances and new content.

I hate scaling of things, if I grow in power, the mobs everywhere should NOT grow equally, then theres no point in growing in power.

Gern_Verkheart

I agree with this, we need more freedom in our leveling experience

Azzuria wrote: »

Instead of a huge, open-world sandbox like other ES games, ESO is hampered by the nature of MMOs. It's a series of smaller ( albeit still large ) sandboxes that keep you from being eaten alive. Because MMOs rely on levels ( even TSW, the game without levels ) to scale content, doing away with levels would be hard to do. If they were to attempt, doing it the way TSW does, make wearing higher grade armor / weapons / jewelry require a skill point spent to access it.

Still, I think ZOS has struck a pretty fair balance between an RPG and an MMO. No complaints here.

How do you think ESO's leveling experience is any different than say, WoW's? It's identical, even the veteran ranks are just levels that take longer to get.

Elder_Thorn wrote: »

well.. you can either do a sandbox MMO or a story driven MMO in my opinion.
This one is a story driven MMO, there is not much you can do about it.
Besides that.. well if you want you can always go to shadowfen with oyur lvl 4 character.

I disagree, you can do both.
They could easily make it so you could go to any zone you want, at any level, simply by using scaling. Now, obviously, there would be certain areas that would be restricted, and you would have to complete a quest-line to get to them, such as Moleg-Bal's courtyard. But they could definitely make ESO have a far more open world feel without moving away from the story driven aspect of the game.

I think that for questing in the open world, level should not matter, and you should scale up or down depending on the zone you are in. Where your level comes into play, should be in dungeons and raids, those should be static, and the reason for you wanting to level up. Also to get better gear, both in appearance and stats.

That's the MMO that I was hoping ESO was going to be, and I still feel it should have been, and even could be. If they had such a scaling system, then ESO would be far more like a true Elder Scrolls game.