Lich Skill Tree as an alternative to Vamp/WW

Tessitura

Would you like to see this happen? It would be a great third sub-race in my opinion. It would complement the other two giving us a balance of
Stealth = Vampire
Fighter = Werewolf
Caster = Lich.

Please look at this before you vote or if you are interested
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/95491/lich-concept/p1

I hope you like the idea as much as me and a handful of others.

Cutekhaos

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

I wouldn't mind seeing something along those lines for casters as the current skill lines are not really geared for a pure caster.

Oronell

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

How about lightning as a primary weakness instead of fire? Too many benefits to fire attacks at the moment.

Clutch

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

I don't see why not. Maybe their ult could be the ability to resurrect instantly at full: health, stamina, and magicka once every full charge. This would give it the appeal of being an immortal. Weaknesses could come from a whole slew of solutions, enchantment weapons dealing harsher affects (armor debuffs debuffing further, damage procs dealing more by a 2x or so multiplier, etc).

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

Given I actually contributed to the Lich concept, I'm going to say yes! Though I find Werewolves to be pure brute force based, Vampires are a mix of magic and strength and Liches would embody raw casters.

@Oronell‌ Reduced healing received with a minor fire weakness due to the nature of being undead is sufficient. It wouldn't make any lore sense for shock weakness, but I did mention it alongside fire weakness personally, perhaps 25% each.. Though Liches are typically powerful mages, so you'd think they'd be resistant to most types of magic.

@Clutch‌ See above. I don't think those would be reasonable drawbacks, having a significantly reduced healing income would be sufficient in deterring players.. though I think it should be increased to like 50%.. as it would make the Plague ability more important. Paired alongside the fire weakness, I think the weaknesses would suffice.

Lord_Hev

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

Yes, yes, and some more yesses. Werewolves and Vampires are so passe these days. Not only would we weirdo necromancers get our dream of joining the prestigious Worm Eremites, but it'll also be a pleasant change from the whole WW/Vamp schism, yes?

Clutch

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

The_Sadist wrote: »

@Clutch‌ See above. I don't think those would be reasonable drawbacks, having a significantly reduced healing income would be sufficient in deterring players.. though I think it should be increased to like 50%.. as it would make the Plague ability more important. Paired alongside the fire weakness, I think the weaknesses would suffice.

Lichdom isn't a plague per-se, it's a practice.

I disagree on the drawbacks being unreasonable. Liches are of magical providence, so anything such as enchantments (which have a fixed base charge limit) would be a feasible weakness.

AlexDougherty

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

If done right it could be a good skill line.

Still_Mind

No, I do not like the idea at all.

Vampire doubles as caster, and I'd really love to see ZOE balance WWs and Vamps properly, before even considering another alternative.

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

Clutch wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

@Clutch‌ See above. I don't think those would be reasonable drawbacks, having a significantly reduced healing income would be sufficient in deterring players.. though I think it should be increased to like 50%.. as it would make the Plague ability more important. Paired alongside the fire weakness, I think the weaknesses would suffice.

Lichdom isn't a plague per-se, it's a practice.

I disagree on the drawbacks being unreasonable. Liches are of magical providence, so anything such as enchantments (which have a fixed base charge limit) would be a feasible weakness.

I never said it was, if you look at the concept thread which was mentioned in the first post the 'plague' aspect is a Lich's self heal unaffected by the heal reduction. I know what Lichdom entails.

It sounds pretty silly honestly and will only have a negative impact in PvP as normal monsters don't use weapon enchantments. Like I said, reduced healing received and a weakness to fire will suffice. Throw in some shock weakness if it's not enough.. but hey, they're magical beings who transcended mortality through dark and powerful magic, if anything they should be resistant to magicka based abilities.

Still_Mind wrote: »

Vampire doubles as caster, and I'd really love to see ZOE balance WWs and Vamps properly, before even considering another alternative.

I agree with fixing the two current world skill lines first, but that doesn't mean becoming a Lich should never actually be considered.

TRIP233

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

I wanna be a Lich, Vampire. I also want the Emperor skill tree but good luck with that...

Oronell

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

The_Sadist wrote: »

@Oronell‌ Reduced healing received with a minor fire weakness due to the nature of being undead is sufficient. It wouldn't make any lore sense for shock weakness, but I did mention it alongside fire weakness personally, perhaps 25% each.. Though Liches are typically powerful mages, so you'd think they'd be resistant to most types of magic.

Sounds good to me! I think this would bring in a lot of new players and also bring back some who left. I can imagine Lich only guilds full of Death Knights and Dragon Priests. RPers would have a field day with this.

Pyatra

Lich as a necro line, probably undead summoning.

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

Pyatra wrote: »

Lich as a necro line, probably undead summoning.

Lich = / = Necromancer. While most Necromancers strive to be Liches, not all Liches are Necromancers.

So I disagree, I think they should be two different things, a Necromancer class and a Lich world skill line.. But that's just my opinion.

WhitePawPrints

The_Sadist wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

Vampire doubles as caster, and I'd really love to see ZOE balance WWs and Vamps properly, before even considering another alternative.

I agree with fixing the two current world skill lines first, but that doesn't mean becoming a Lich should never actually be considered.

Unfortunately a lot of people think that's a valid reason to disagree with these content suggestions. Maybe they don't think we're aware of the priority of current bugs and balance issues?

I would not use this skill line, but I cannot oppose it either. I would prefer some other content, but new content is always welcome.

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

Vampire doubles as caster, and I'd really love to see ZOE balance WWs and Vamps properly, before even considering another alternative.

I agree with fixing the two current world skill lines first, but that doesn't mean becoming a Lich should never actually be considered.

Unfortunately a lot of people think that's a valid reason to disagree with these content suggestions. Maybe they don't think we're aware of the priority of current bugs and balance issues?

I would not use this skill line, but I cannot oppose it either. I would prefer some other content, but new content is always welcome.

I completely agree that things should be fixed before new content and whatnot is released.. individuals who are being able to distinguish between the two really shouldn't be posting, it's frustrating having to constantly clarify.

I agree, new content in the form of alternative levelling, more explorable zones, perhaps new crafting options and whatnot should probably be priority over a new world skill line.

But fingers crossed! I should hopefully finish my Necromancer concept when I'm finished with these exams as well, so there's that.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

No, I do not like the idea at all.

id rather vampire have a little more power to them than be all about hiding. Would make me feel weak prey. One more way to become invisible wouldnt hurt, but Dark stalker is good enough on the stealth aspect of vampire imo. I would mind if the made the decreased speed to enter stealth always apply indoors tho.

Maybe add onto what they currently have rather than try to change them.

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

id rather vampire have a little more power to them than be all about hiding. Would make me feel weak prey. One more way to become invisible wouldnt hurt, but Dark stalker is good enough on the stealth aspect of vampire imo. I would mind if the made the decreased speed to enter stealth always apply indoors tho.

Maybe add onto what they currently have rather than try to change them.

So you came to this thread, said no, gave no reason to why you think it's a bad idea and go off tangent about vampirism and their stealth aspect?

What?

Vampires aren't all about hiding, having one passive dedicated to stealth doesn't mean the whole skill line is shadow based. I agree with fixing what we currently have in terms of classes, skill lines and general bugs before focusing on and implementing alternatives. However saying no for the sake of no doesn't make much sense. Numbers and balancing aside, I think the 3 of us came up with a rather well thought out concept.. Though I'd love for vampirism and lycanthropy to be equally viable and debilitating at the same time!

demonlkojipub19_ESO

No, I do not like the idea at all.

The poll only had yes or no. My no was to vampire should = stealth and I explained why. chill.

And why didn't you jump at the other guy that voted no but said nothing as to "why" to the overall concept with such rage? bad day at work or something?

Tessitura

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

The_Sadist wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

id rather vampire have a little more power to them than be all about hiding. Would make me feel weak prey. One more way to become invisible wouldnt hurt, but Dark stalker is good enough on the stealth aspect of vampire imo. I would mind if the made the decreased speed to enter stealth always apply indoors tho.

Maybe add onto what they currently have rather than try to change them.

So you came to this thread, said no, gave no reason to why you think it's a bad idea and go off tangent about vampirism and their stealth aspect?

What?

Vampires aren't all about hiding, having one passive dedicated to stealth doesn't mean the whole skill line is shadow based. I agree with fixing what we currently have in terms of classes, skill lines and general bugs before focusing on and implementing alternatives. However saying no for the sake of no doesn't make much sense. Numbers and balancing aside, I think the 3 of us came up with a rather well thought out concept.. Though I'd love for vampirism and lycanthropy to be equally viable and debilitating at the same time!

Yes, I do not apperciate you polluting the data pool so you can get your two cents in about Vamps. If that is your goal then take it to the vamp threads not here.

Tessitura

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

The poll only had yes or no. My no was to vampire should = stealth and I explained why. chill.

And why didn't you jump at the other guy that voted no but said nothing as to "why" to the overall concept with such rage? bad day at work or something?

That is because the poll is to see if the are ok with or completely against a Lich tree. Not to see if you agree with the discription or not. Decide not to vote if your only problem is with the discription. And the other guy did explain. He would rather see them rework the current Sub-races then make a new one. I am going to add to the discription to help clear up some confusion.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

No, I do not like the idea at all.

"No, they should fix the functionality and balance of other things before they add anything else"

Tessitura

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

Apparently it will not let me edit so I will post it in the comments for now.


EDIT: This is not to replace the balance focus on the current sub-races, rather it is to suggest a future addition. Please do not let the idea of this switching the focus of balance from the current to the new affect your vote, as that is not what is being suggested. This is to see if you would be ok with the idea as a future addition to the game. Not as a replacement or to see if it should be added now. If you are concerned with the current state of balance then take it to one of the hundred other threads dedicated to that. This is again to get new ideas out there for future additions.

Please consider your vote carefully, and do not rush it.

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

The poll only had yes or no. My no was to vampire should = stealth and I explained why. chill.

And why didn't you jump at the other guy that voted no but said nothing as to "why" to the overall concept with such rage? bad day at work or something?

I'm very chill, I just thought it was amusing that you said no and discussed vampirism instead. Furthermore, if you actually read through my post, I discussed the concept of stealth and vampirism a little, and even had some humour thrown in there. Lastly, this isn't a balance vampire thread! Saying something akin to 'I think the concept is interesting but I'd prefer they balanced the current two world skill lines first' and not going off tangent about vampirism and how vampires should be stealth orientated would probably have meant receiving a more 'chill' response from me. I disagree with the concept that vampires should be stealth based.. They are typically a mixture of brute strength, magical prowess and the ability to blend in (in this sense stealth), but that's a different topic for a different time.

I did respond to the guy who voted no by the way.

The_Sadist wrote: »

Still_Mind wrote: »

Vampire doubles as caster, and I'd really love to see ZOE balance WWs and Vamps properly, before even considering another alternative.

I agree with fixing the two current world skill lines first, but that doesn't mean becoming a Lich should never actually be considered.

You're mistaking what you see as rage with rational thought.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

No, I do not like the idea at all.

^ sorry not mistaken, how you responded to me and how you responded to me were clearly different. You were just flat out rude in your wordage.

WhitePawPrints

Another idea for a new World Skill line: Thu'um. Since the ability can be learned by anyone, it'd be cool if there were some Shouts from Skyrim to be applied in a limited Thu'um World Skill Line.

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

^ sorry not mistaken, how you responded to me and how you responded to me were clearly different. You were just flat out rude in your wordage.

If that's what you take away from this conversation, so be it. I don't care enough to banter about the lack of tone on the internet, so end of conversation really, unless of course you have something to add regarding the Lich concept, be it feedback, constructive criticisms or suggestions. Feel free to make a thread regarding vampirism and stealth, I'll probably pop in and give my two cents.

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Another idea for a new World Skill line: Thu'um. Since the ability can be learned by anyone, it'd be cool if there were some Shouts from Skyrim to be applied in a limited Thu'um World Skill Line.

Interesting concept but also a little off topic. Like you said, given anyone can learn Thu'um but are not actually Dragonborn (and therefore are not capable of being completely overpowered) I can see it working, though I don't think there are currently dragons in game (I say this as slaying dragons could have been a method to levelling up the skill line). So in theory it seems pretty solid, though one issue would be why can't Vampires, Werewolves or Liches utilise Thu'um? (I'm under the impression that if you picked Lich you couldn't go Vampire / Werewolf and vica versa, such is the nature of the World skill line).

demonlkojipub19_ESO

No, I do not like the idea at all.

if you dont care, ignore post.

WhitePawPrints

The_Sadist wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Another idea for a new World Skill line: Thu'um. Since the ability can be learned by anyone, it'd be cool if there were some Shouts from Skyrim to be applied in a limited Thu'um World Skill Line.

Interesting concept but also a little off topic. Like you said, given anyone can learn Thu'um but are not actually Dragonborn (and therefore are not capable of being completely overpowered) I can see it working, though I don't think there are currently dragons in game (I say this as slaying dragons could have been a method to levelling up the skill line). So in theory it seems pretty solid, though one issue would be why can't Vampires, Werewolves or Liches utilise Thu'um? (I'm under the impression that if you picked Lich you couldn't go Vampire / Werewolf and vica versa, such is the nature of the World skill line).

Haha, yeah it is a bit off topic but seems a bit more on topic than the last few posts :P Some posts are best ignored.

True, a Thu'um World Skill probably wouldn't a choose one ver the others skill line. It'd probably be more like the Soul Skill Line. Just a thought. Maybe for an Expansion type of content patch?

The Lich concept would help a great deal remove the whole Vampire vs. Werewolf dilemma that has really become popular the last half decade. It would rather unique for Elder Scrolls too since I don't see these type of functions added in other games; and when they are usually it stops at Werewolf vs Vampire.

It'd be great if the Lich had some sort of Ethereal ability (similar to the Ethereal shout in Skyrim) that'd make the immune to physical damage for a short among of time, unless of course Silver weapons were being used (similar to how you killed liches in Oblivoin).

The_Sadist

Yes, I would like to see the Lich tree made a thing.

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Haha, yeah it is a bit off topic but seems a bit more on topic than the last few posts :P Some posts are best ignored.

True, a Thu'um World Skill probably wouldn't a choose one ver the others skill line. It'd probably be more like the Soul Skill Line. Just a thought. Maybe for an Expansion type of content patch?

The Lich concept would help a great deal remove the whole Vampire vs. Werewolf dilemma that has really become popular the last half decade. It would rather unique for Elder Scrolls too since I don't see these type of functions added in other games; and when they are usually it stops at Werewolf vs Vampire.

It'd be great if the Lich had some sort of Ethereal ability (similar to the Ethereal shout in Skyrim) that'd make the immune to physical damage for a short among of time, unless of course Silver weapons were being used (similar to how you killed liches in Oblivoin).

Indeed, for some reason I feel the need to clarify my stance and what I meant despite the obvious 'YOU'RE TALKING TO A BRICK WALL' sort of thing.

That makes a degree more sense, they could even implement a storyline around it. Another issue is that I could see this being easy to create in the EP, but in the other two factions Dragons weren't really all the prevalent. Furthermore, the dragons aren't actually aroused from their slumber for another few thousand years (or something). It's all very tricky.

I believe both skill lines need to be revised, improved and expanded upon before the Lich concept is even mentioned amongst the Devs and whatnot, but still, I agree. In the Elder Scrolls world Liches aren't that common, but they are there and they're extremely interesting! So while it's just a concept, I do indeed have high hopes for it, despite the obvious lack of Dev / Mod attention the original topic received.

Well one passive was extremely similar to that but we ultimately scrapped it. Liches are great Wizards, powerful Necromancers and ancient Sorcerers, but they are also ultimately physical beings (well, depending on what lore you're reading). The Essence Barrier passive is a half Ethereal ability, draining Magicka or Health and as a result resisting damage. There have been a few weaknesses in place, silver isn't one of them. Ultimately the 'you can only hit this monster with this quality of weapon or greater' was utilised to pose a challenge and to encourage individuals to constantly upgrade their characters... Also Liches don't have an intolerance to silver :P.

crashen17b14_ESO

No, I do not like the idea at all.

I vote "No" with a caveat. I am not really opposed to the idea of a lich skill line, because I have always loved them and it has always been preferable to vampires, as far as I am concerned. BUT. I feel like "Yet another undead form" is not really needed. A pure caster life-state would be cool, but I feel like it should be something other than necromancer/lich/etc. I was actually thinking something like "Astromancer", where you gain unique abilities based on your mundus stone, maybe tapping into the power of Aetherius (thus precluding vampire and werewolf astromancers, as they are 'tainted' by oblivion).

So yeah, while I love liches, (Liches get all the ***), I don't think they are the solution. Yet.