F2P? No, a common sense answer why.

Sindala

So I keep reading these posts on about ESO going F2P and such, while I have a good laugh and even reply (wind up) to some, you have to ask yourself one thing.

After you've played ESO for more than 5 mins......just sit back and try to think HOW it could even be done.
I mean, ESO just ain't that type of game....we don't have daft mounts to buy or stupid manga type armour.....we don't need XP boost or any boosts really...crafting don't require the need to spend RL cash to make items.....PvP don't require you to be in the Uber armour set just to compete....ect.

ESO is set in a true fantasy setting not the 'Oh crap we'll just make a huge purple Squirrel mount this week cos they will buy it and not even ask How its possible'.

ESO has to much Lore and history (and future history, remember this game is set before Skyrim so if it aint in Skyrim then it never existed (hinting about the stupid mounts here)) to suddenly dump all the stuff F2P'ers expect.

So please, feel free to sit back and just think to yourself HOW they could even do it before writing essays about how you'll quit and such

crislevin

I fail to follow your logic.

I can see your passion for the TES series, but F2P or not should be a pure business decision, technical aspect can be worked out afterwards.

infraction2008b16_ESO

Sindala wrote: »

we don't have daft mounts to buy or

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store/product/palomino_horse

ZiRM

It's the business plan most MMO's are adopting nowadays. It's very lucrative if done properly. Lucrative for the company not the players or fanbase.

Sindala

Yes, but what could you sell in ESO that people would buy for real cash? and continue to buy in vast amounts?
That is how F2P works (though if you do the research its widely acknowledged now that F2P don't work as well as Sub)

The horse is still a horse by the way and not a daft....flying jellyfish for example.

snowmanflvb14_ESO

NiRN wrote: »

It's the business plan most MMO's are adopting nowadays. It's very lucrative if done properly. Lucrative for the company not the players or fanbase.

I would beg to differ the two AAA games that launched this year are both sub based ( ESO and Wildstar) EQ, WoW, Eve, DAOC are still going strong and are sub base. Usually the games that launch as F2P are poor quailty games designed for the fast buck

Endolith

It could be done, and as people note it is a business decision.

What people fail to realize is the amount of latitude a privately-held company has, particularly when they have the kind of money behind them that ZOS does. They could very well take the approach of keeping it sub-based even if the population is extremely small, with the idea that over the next couple of years they'll work on the game and try to build it up again. I'm not saying they will do that, but I'm saying they have the latitude and resources to do it if they want.

I have plenty of clients who are publicly-traded companies and others who are privately-held, and you'll sometimes see a great difference in how they approach things. One client I have actually folded up his private business (rejecting a lot of money in the process), because he had a vision for the product line and the money being offered meant changing that. The products are still under patent and aren't even on the market anymore because the company was either going to pursue their specific vision or fold everything up and do nothing at all. Since they didn't have shareholders, or even investors to speak of, to answer to, they could do it.

Again, I'm not trying to predict what ZOS will do. I have no idea. They've said in the past they'd shut the game down instead of going f2p if it wasn't doing well enough to maintain the sub model. Would they really do it? I don't know. But the point is they certainly could do it, or even continue the game for quite a long period of time on a very small subscriber base.

Time will tell. It seems foolish for them to try moving away from the sub-model before the console release. My guess is that even if the sub levels fall very low they'll try for some time to keep that model and entice players to return with fixes and new content. But that's just a guess. The same is true of my post as is of every other post on f2p - we just don't know, and don't even have a sound basis for speculating at this point.

Phantax

Don't have to write an essay on while F2P will make me quit, I just will. (in fact you see how many players will also quit if it ever does)

F2P =

crislevin

Why so stubborn on F2P? if ESO need F2P to survive, I would support it, there are many ways to do this to relief the pain our original paid players will have.

I just do not understand the complete rejection of it.

yodased

common sense =/= common

Sindala

See...everyone has an opinion but none of you can give me an example of what they would sell in ESO if it were a F2P.

Gwarok

Flagging myself for an infraction before I say something "counter-productive"
on this whole F2P hyperbole garbage.

crislevin

Sindala wrote: »

See...everyone has an opinion but none of you can give me an example of what they would sell in ESO if it were a F2P.

Its business 101, people like FREE stuff. Its human nature.

Phantax

Sindala wrote: »

See...everyone has an opinion but none of you can give me an example of what they would sell in ESO if it were a F2P.

Dyes, motifs, costumes, weapon effects, pets/companions



EDIT - Bank slots, bag slots, extra character slots !

Mablung

crislevin wrote: »

I just do not understand the complete rejection of it.

Because it is admission of failure by the MMO. It is a death nail to gamers. Most do not support F2P because it is a cash grab. Micro transactions will never be a huge hit with MMO gamers.

Take SWtoR for example. I stopped playing when it went F2P. Why? They took away everything I had earned playing the game, paying for it through subscription and initial purchase. Titles, pve instances, pvp maps, etc. It was insane. I had already earned that and they want me to pay to get to use it? Forget it. I will never support a F2P game.

MMOs are not mobile device games where microtransactions excel. MMO makers have not got that clue yet.

Saltypretzels

Sindala wrote: »

See...everyone has an opinion but none of you can give me an example of what they would sell in ESO if it were a F2P.

Also to add to the above: storage space, access to leveling zones, access to dungeons, access to PVP. access to vet zones, use of wayshrines, ability to wear purple or yellow gear, faster mounts....

The list in endless.

OP, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Blackwidow

Sindala wrote: »

So I keep reading these posts on about ESO going F2P and such, while I have a good laugh and even reply (wind up) to some, you have to ask yourself one thing.

After you've played ESO for more than 5 mins......just sit back and try to think HOW it could even be done.

Play for skill lines to be opened up.
Sell better mounts.
Sell bank space
Sell for access vet levels.
Sell more characters slots
Sell access to any new area.
Sell for a crap load of costumes
Sell weird pets.
Sell motifs
Sell rare mats.
Sell mystery boxes with items you can only get from the boxes.
Sell keys to open those boxes. (NWN anyone)
Sell gold directly.

Look, I don't ever want this game to go F2P, but when you see an egg dropping to the floor, you can be pretty sure it will crack on impact.

If ZOS does not do some drastic changes soon, it will go F2P.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

This game, is trying to go against the flow of current trends which is a very very much needed breath of fresh air in the genre. Conceptually, its amazing. The ideas it has and tries to implement, is amazing.

But one huge huge problem : the execution of said ideas, translated into design, programming, and policies of the game, is among the worst of current gen batch.

Lets see if they are ballsy enough to do something about it

pahajuju

Name change, race change.
Though those might come to the cash shop even if the game has subscription.

Sindala

utzpretzels wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

See...everyone has an opinion but none of you can give me an example of what they would sell in ESO if it were a F2P.

Also to add to the above: storage space, access to leveling zones, access to dungeons, access to PVP. access to vet zones, use of wayshrines, ability to wear purple or yellow gear, faster mounts....

The list in endless.

OP, you have no idea what you are talking about.

So your saying in a year if it goes F2P then everyone who's got a sub would be fine with everything they have suddenly being sold for real cash....nothing new added since everything you mention would already be in-game??

Hmm....I think maybe it's you that don't have a clue

Obscure

Sub based models that do not have already have long standing subscriber bases (WoW and the like) can not, will not, and have frequently demonstrated that they are not sustainable in the modern market. Period. The market has spoken. $15 a month can literally buy you a whole new full AAA title every month on services like Steam which is factually more content than any developer can so much as dream of producing in a month.

It is a garuntee the sub model will be altered for ESO to accommodate the market or ESO will lose profitability rapidly over the remainder of the year until the game is deemed "dead". F2P is a bad substitute for ESO's business model, and what I expect to see is dropping the subscription hard pay wall for a stern discount of the core product, monetization of certain content, and the option to pay a reduced subscription fee to bypass the content monetization. It is otherwise an inevitably that ESO will not be strong enough to be relevant to the market in 2015. It will be eclipsed by comparative products before the end of 2014, and service only a niche market of less than 500k players. Business doesn't care how much I subjectively love ESO. Objectively it's on a collision course with the exact same fate SWTOR faced, and there's no way to change it.

crislevin

Mablung wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

I just do not understand the complete rejection of it.

Because it is admission of failure by the MMO. It is a death nail to gamers. Most do not support F2P because it is a cash grab. Micro transactions will never be a huge hit with MMO gamers.

Take SWtoR for example. I stopped playing when it went F2P. Why? They took away everything I had earned playing the game, paying for it through subscription and initial purchase. Titles, pve instances, pvp maps, etc. It was insane. I had already earned that and they want me to pay to get to use it? Forget it. I will never support a F2P game.

MMOs are not mobile device games where microtransactions excel. MMO makers have not got that clue yet.

Those are implementation details, It CAN be worked out. What SWTOR did is not what ESO will do.

pahajuju

Faction change, and from level 1 to max VR level "for alts".
But those too might end up in the current cash shop.
I'm too lazy to edit.

PVT_Parts

Sindala wrote: »

After you've played ESO for more than 5 mins......just sit back and try to think HOW it could even be done.
I mean, ESO just ain't that type of game....we don't have daft mounts to buy or stupid manga type armour.....we don't need XP boost or any boosts really...crafting don't require the need to spend RL cash to make items.....PvP don't require you to be in the Uber armour set just to compete....ect.

Simple. They add that stuff to cash shop. Giant squirrel mount can be explained. Clearly it went extinct long before skyrim, oblivion, morrowind, etc. and was lost to history like the dwemer. There can be lots of stuff that is lost to history. Also, while a giant squirrel mount is questionable. What about a giant with a backpack and you ride on his shoulders (Pack mount). A wolf mount. What about a deer that you ride(speed). A ghost mount (ESO is overrun with ghosts). What about a troll that you ride (stamina). A Dwemer mount made of gears. Also, followers you can buy that help in PVE. Many many followers with different attack styles to compliment your character. Lock boxes with a chance of getting great mats or something. Lusty argonian maid costume. Any costume to make you look like someone from lore. Crusader armor overrides. There are literally tons of crap you could put in a F2P store without it being P2W.

kccaine

Mablung wrote: »

...Take SWtoR for example. I stopped playing when it went F2P....

This is a complete misrepresentation. When SWTOR launched, it was subscription. All of the things you mentioned were paid for as part of your sub. When it went F2P, limits were placed on what you could do, but if you continued to pay your sub, you continued to get the same things you got by paying a sub before F2P.

The only new thing added was the Cartel market. With a few minor exceptions (ship parts come to mind), everything in the market is cosmetic. Subscribers get a stipend of cartel coins that effectively get you some of this stuff for free.

Fail to pay = limited play.

Ninnghizhidda

Personally, I would very much hate to see ESO going that way. For the time being I believe it will not. Since they do have the console versions release ahead as well.

On the other hand, there are certainly ways to introduce stuff into the game that would generate money through shop sales instead of subscriptions.

I have always been a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls and overall ESO had been a good experience so far. However... Once you have played through the normal levels, even at a slow pace, exploring, enjoying the storyline and the environment even, eventually you reach... the Veteran "content". And there... instead of feeling "Veteran", you rather feel "poop".

If you also happen to sport a preference for a "warrior" playstyle (melee / physical combat, using your WEAPON, wearing the heavier armour) instead of the "Harry Potter pajama + toothpick mage" style, then sadly, you quickly realise, you are royally screwed.

So... After all, despite the awesomeness of all the other elements we love in ESO and Elder Scrolls in general, there comes the urge to just say "ah, enough of this, screw it", and yes, maybe go play something like Tera, with all the tons of anime fluffiness and pink Elin knickers around, but... at least melee classes are not a laughing stock, tanks ARE tanks, even if they wear thongs. And by the way, the actual combat and mechanics are not exactly bad.

I certainly do not want to defend some other game here, I just gave an example, I am sure most people are still in ESO because they really like the unique feel, the "realism" and yes, why not, all the immersion too. But, in the end, this can not be enough, you do not pay money every month just for the story or the environment or the looks, not when you realise after all you are not quite free to do as you would wish (well you can, if you don't mind "blood and tears", while the "Harry Potters" have it easy and even laugh their heads off).

Things like THIS, among several other well known problems, can eventually lead to the decline of player population, thus making a transition to F2P inevitable, because, you know, in the end they are running a business.

Having said all that, I still hope it will never happen and they will get their act together. Sooner than later pretty please.

Regoras

I'd buy a Mud Crab mount.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

I think its a certainty f2p will happen with the amount of subs they are losing on a daily basis.

Cimos

One word can answer the F2P question: Console,

I am surprised that no one ever brings this up. The game cant be F2P on PC and B2P on Console. The game cant be F2P on console either. That has never been done with a real game (Warframe and those indy games dont count). Console gamers are used to paying for games, not the F2P model.

Therefore, it will not go F2P completely. However, console gamers will probably also not like the monthly sub, so I am guessing the GW2 model will be the most likely. Buy the game for $40-$60 and then play for free. If that happens, we can expect less content updates.

driosketch

So many "experts" don't even know why a game goes F2P. They look at SWTOR and think it means the death of the game. The death of the game is when they shut the servers down.

Companies go F2P to make more money. And it works or it wouldn't be the trend. People say they hate F2P, but there is enough players out there who buy into that model to make it a success. And as @Endolith‌ mentioned above, a company like Zenimax does not go F2P under the same pressure that a game run by EA or Sony has.

You know want I think, the players who angrily claim the game will go "F2P" instead of "shut down", have a love/hate relationship with the game. They're afraid to predict the more likely of scenarios should the game lose too many subs to stay afloat, because that would mean losing it forever. Let's call all those others posts what they actually are: a thinly veiled attempt to black mail the developers into making the sorts of changes they want. Because everyone wants a different list of things and we can't all get our way.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

Believe it or not, there are actually tons of players who are subbed. When you look at the numbers of how many people are on the forums and the % of the player base who actually use the game forums (its a very low %). Then you realize how active these forums really are.

This game is not going f2p, not for a long time. They should be swimming in cash with monthly subbs.

p.s I swear to god if I hear some anecdotal evidence like "B-B-BUT MY GUILD USED TO BE ACTIVE NOW NO ONES ONLINE"...