Reason for Changing Ultimate Gain on Crits?

bean19

So it makes good gameplay sense to reward crits with additional ultimate gain. I'm curious why this was removed.

My guess is that it is an attempt to stop the handful of power-gamers at VR12 from being able to beat trials in 11 minutes by using AoE ultimates to trivialize the content.

This really hurts my Sorc PvE build. I was using a build that was a rapid fire alternation between Force Shock (Destruction Staff tree) and Light Attacks for fast dps (if also really, really bad resource/dps), but it worked out because the rapid fire meant more crits which meant I was able to use my ult about every other fight and these easier fights would get back my magicka.

Anyway, I'll adjust, but this is such a huge change that effects so many builds that I'm left curious as to why they chose to do it.

Guppet

Isn't it obvious. Medium armor gives grit bonus, it must have been over performing.

With this change medium armor will be worse.

Thechemicals

Beacuase crits do a lot of damage and can exceed 100% crit in this game, and the ultimates are the most powerful effects in this game. Do the math.

Maverick827

Yeah, my melee Sorc just got a pretty large nerf, and I don't think anyone wants to say melee Sorcs are overpowered.

I already had to reroll once after the bash nerf. If you keep on nerfing things for no reason I don't think I'm up for another reroll.

Xnemesis

The change makes sense for AOE but not single target. This kills anyone who uses single target builds

ckf12b14_ESO

You can blame DKs for abusing ult generation and dropping 3-4 banners on single target at once. 1.7k sustained dps from DKs in trials was just way too broken.

Nerfing everyone because of them was way over the top though. And such a massive nerf, too.

Xnemesis

pains me to see so much potential go to waste...

babylon

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

You can blame DKs for abusing ult generation and dropping 3-4 banners on single target at once. 1.7k sustained dps from DKs in trials was just way too broken.

Nerfing everyone because of them was way over the top though. And such a massive nerf, too.

This^

It was abused yes, but sledgehammer nerfs help nobody - not the players of the game, not the investors backing the game, and not the guys writing the code who rely on their jobs to feed the dog and kids at home.

Erock25

Maverick827 wrote: »

Yeah, my melee Sorc just got a pretty large nerf, and I don't think anyone wants to say melee Sorcs are overpowered.

I already had to reroll once after the bash nerf. If you keep on nerfing things for no reason I don't think I'm up for another reroll.

Yeah this is a huge nerf to Sorc.

Mortosk

bean19 wrote: »

So it makes good gameplay sense to reward crits with additional ultimate gain. I'm curious why this was rdemoved.

My guess is that it is an attempt to stop the handful of power-gamers at VR12 from being able to beat trials in 11 minutes by using

This really hurts my Sorc PvE build. I was using a build that was a rapid fire alternation between Force Shock (Destruction Staff tree) and Light Attacks for fast dps (if also really, really bad resource/dps), but it worked out because the rapid fire meant more crits which meant I was able to use my ult about every other fight and these easier fights would get back my magicka.

Anyway, I'll adjust, but this is such a huge change that effects so many builds that I'm left curious as to why they chose to do it.

And it effects templars low cost sweep from multiple biting jabs crits. As if they haven't done enough damage to our class already. Someone at zenimax must really despise templars.

Redwyrm

I thought proper solution fix was obvious back at vampire-OP-swarm.
And solution is:
Damage done by ultimate - should not generate ultimate.

PBpsy

Redwyrm wrote: »

I thought proper solution fix was obvious back at vampire-OP-swarm.
And solution is:
Damage done by ultimate - should not generate ultimate.

Do they ? I am sure two of the NB ultimates don't and uncertain of the third.

Redwyrm

PBpsy wrote: »

Redwyrm wrote: »

I thought proper solution fix was obvious back at vampire-OP-swarm.
And solution is:
Damage done by ultimate - should not generate ultimate.

Do they ? I am sure two of the NB ultimates don't and uncertain of the third.

Initial damage not, but damage over time AFAIK do.

NerfEverything

This is NOT A SORC NERF. This is a global nerf. Consider yourselves lucky that you have ultimates that are useful.

RianaTheBosmer

The devs need to go back to MMO school.

PBpsy

Redwyrm wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Redwyrm wrote: »

I thought proper solution fix was obvious back at vampire-OP-swarm.
And solution is:
Damage done by ultimate - should not generate ultimate.

Do they ? I am sure two of the NB ultimates don't and uncertain of the third.

Initial damage not, but damage over time AFAIK do.

Ok I tested . Veil of blades does not generate any ulti on its own not the normal tick and not the critical ticks. The other two ultimates I don't generate any either I think,

joshisanonymous

Maverick827 wrote: »

I already had to reroll once after the bash nerf. If you keep on nerfing things for no reason I don't think I'm up for another reroll.

If you had to reroll because of bash (note: a basic ability that's only augmented by 1 weapon line and 1 armor type, not by class skills) then you're probably gonna have problems no matter what Zenimax does. It's therefore not in their interest to cater to you, because that would mean that they could literally not change anything in their game, ever, no matter how out of wack something might be.

@ OP It's unfortunate that your build isn't as effective now, but I'm glad you're interested in adapting instead of raging. I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is a global nerf, meaning literally every player's ultimate generation is now equally weaker. All this change really did was take a step a step towards tuning down the reliance on ultimates in the game.

bean19

Redwyrm wrote: »

I thought proper solution fix was obvious back at vampire-OP-swarm.
And solution is:
Damage done by ultimate - should not generate ultimate.

Or they could just make a change that makes it so you don't earn ultimate during the duration of an ultimate. This would be a nerf directly to sustained AoE ultimates (the ultimates currently viewed as overpowered both for mob-grinding and endgame content) without a massive global nerf to all builds.

Who is the Zenimax combat designer and does he/she post to the forums?

Maverick827

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

I already had to reroll once after the bash nerf. If you keep on nerfing things for no reason I don't think I'm up for another reroll.

If you had to reroll because of bash (note: a basic ability that's only augmented by 1 weapon line and 1 armor type, not by class skills) then you're probably gonna have problems no matter what Zenimax does. It's therefore not in their interest to cater to you, because that would mean that they could literally not change anything in their game, ever, no matter how out of wack something might be.

@ OP It's unfortunate that your build isn't as effective now, but I'm glad you're interested in adapting instead of raging. I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is a global nerf, meaning literally every player's ultimate generation is now equally weaker. All this change really did was take a step a step towards tuning down the reliance on ultimates in the game.

The problem is they nerfed with no respec and I couldn't afford to do it myself and I was no longer effective enough to farm gold.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Does it even matter anymore? ZOS just told dk tanks to gtfo out of the game.This game is dead.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

It is a very dumb move for the majority of players. After the recent changes to ulti gain I was finally able to use my ulti reasonably regularly before it resets on my non-mage NB (what... a non-mage in ESO!!). Obviously I rely on crits to get it up there with the NB. So I'll go back to hardly ever using ultis again (because points will reset before I build up enough to use it since they've never bothered to fix that bug).

bean19

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Does it even matter anymore? ZOS just told dk tanks to gtfo out of the game.This game is dead.

I disagree. They didn't nerf Coagulating Blood at all. Compare that to the resource cost and effects of Storm Armor in the Sorc skills. Coagulating Blood lasts 30 seconds vs. up to 8 seconds, has a large self-heal, a much more powerful effect that can bring even light armor up to the soft-cap, and a lower resource cost. This one skill still makes ANY DK build instantly an amazing tank. So DK standard lost a significant amount of damage mitigation and Magma Armor (the near invuln ultimate) is a little less invulnerable. The class is still miles ahead of every other class in the game. . . and with the use of Standard of Might and Ardent Flame skills, they can outdps most classes in the game at the same time.

Anyway, I won't go on and on in replies with you about this because it would be a thread derail. My DK is my most powerful character by far and is quickly becoming my main. As I play every other class in the game (Templar, DK, and Sorc in veteran levels), I'm honestly pleased they didn't nerf my DK more.