Nightblade Soloing Craglorn.

grizzbi

The post on reddit subforum:
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/26xb3b/nightblade_soloing_craglorn_hircines_haunt/

Direct link to the video: on youtube


From the guy who did it:

"Force Siphon and Ultimate costs need to be looked at. I agree. However I completed this as well with a resto / destro build with NO force siphon.
Used ward, mutagen, healing spring. Other bar was pulsar, rune, and sap. With light/sa of course. If Im not too bothered Ill make a video of it.. but I work over the next few days.
Even after a fix.. it would be possible with base FS. Just put it on every1 and its 60+hp from each with aoe. Unstable Wall gets HP back on EACH tick. (perhaps add the new refreshing path to it coming) There are many ways. Yes classes can solo it but its not worth the time and effort IMO."
Xil0

His build: esohead
Xil0

Attributes 49 health. Warlock Helm, Ring, Ammy. 1 Ring of reduce spell cost with magicka. Other 6 armor = Health enchants. Main pieces are infused, small are divines. (although probably change to crit resist trait next b/c I prefer pvp) Mage Mundus Stone. Stam + Magicka Food 3 piece seducer and willow's.
I have several builds for different situations.
Xil0

About a bow / DW build:

Bow dual wield is fine in pvp. Fine in PvE. Just have to slot enough sustain.
Thing is bow and dual wield aren't the best choices bc of LACK of sustain. The classes are rock paper scissor type balancing.
DK, Temp. Good self heal. No escape. Sorc, NB, Escape. Not great self heal.
So you really have to equip to make up for these losses, but not in all situations.
A stam melee nb done right does more DPS than I do. Although from testing I feel a bow/dw works better with DK. If I went stam, Id go 2h, resto, or 2h+sword shield. (with DW for swaps on AOE).
You can't ignore magicka, and you can't ignore stamina. The game wasn't designed that way.
Xil0

And finally:

Exactly. I personally think NB is fine minus the bugged passives. But sure, I'll take more buffs.
Xil0

I think this guy is doing a great job. And he's kind enough to answer the questions about his build, Force Siphon and other possible builds, including bow/DW and stamina..

About the skills used

Available to all class: "generic skills"
Force Siphon stacked with AOE, light armor, resto staff for magicka regen + heal over time, volcanic rune when you need a few seconds.

Available to DK, Sorc and NB
Additional resource management abilities
Efficient and useful low cost Ultimate

Remember that soloing this kind of content is not really intended and should not be considered as the ultimate goal or test to compare classes. It demonstrates that a few skills should be toned down. And that AOE synergies can be used (and abused)to gain higher gains than expexted (ultimate points, health, magicka..) and should be monitored.

Currently, too many people are using this kind of build and it does limit the diversity and interest of the game. I hope it is monitored and will be adjusted very soon. It should be one of the top priorities.

Vandril

That's actually really cool to see. The fact that it's doable is both disconcerting and a relief at the same time, though.

grizzbi

Vandril wrote: »

That's actually really cool to see. The fact that it's doable is both disconcerting and a relief at the same time, though.

I think it's interesting. It doesn't bring a lot to the NB debates. It's more about Force Siphon, low cost ultimate and resource management / AOE synergies.

grizzbi

So any discussion like "NB IS CRAP" get 3K views and many many unconstructive comments.

But when it's "Nightblade Soloing Craglorn", with a video, an explanation, and constructive feedback, there's no one anymore?

It says a lot...

Kaskako

It's definitely quite interesting. Will try the build out at some point for sure.

I wonder, would a nb be able to do the first 3 trash pulls in archives trial?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-AihITyYqQ

nerevarine1138

grizzbi wrote: »

So any discussion like "NB IS CRAP" get 3K views and many many unconstructive comments.

But when it's "Nightblade Soloing Craglorn", with a video, an explanation, and constructive feedback, there's no one anymore?

It says a lot...

Yep.

People love to complain about how it's not a playstyle issue, it's that the developers hate them and secretly conspired to make their lives hard. Same thing happened to me in a much earlier thread where someone said that dual-wield NB was completely unviable at VR levels. I posted my build, explained some tactics, and for some odd reason, he never came back.

SwampRaider

as a templar, i am waiting for the build that does it.

I'm a DW/Bow/Resto staff templar with medium armor. damn if i can solo...lol

nerevarine1138

SwampRaider wrote: »

as a templar, i am waiting for the build that does it.

I'm a DW/Bow/Resto staff templar with medium armor. damn if i can solo...lol

Well, in all fairness, videos like this are more evidence that some abilities need to be tuned down, because no one should be soloing any of that content.

flguy147ub17_ESO

Everyday I see something in the game that makes me realize how broken this game is. Craglorn trials should have been difficult with 12 men and people are doing it in 11 minutes. Craglorn dungeons: people are soloing that should be difficult for 4 people. Light armor rules, resto staff has the most damage passive out of any weapon for abilities which is laughable. The healing staff also does the most damage even over the destro staff with single target atleast. Destro staff should have the extra damage bonus not the healing staff. Stamina builds hahaha, what are those? Lets use stamina on abilities so when I need to break out of CC, block, dodge roll.... well i wont have any left so i will just will die. No actually I will go to light armor and staff and use all magicka for abilities. And this is coming from a DK Mage and think its a joke. I want to play a NB DW and Bow but wont since its not very good. So if I make an alt, it will be a Sorc with light armor, resto/destroy staff again.

davidetombab16_ESO

nothing special, DK and sorc with the same tactics are thousand better

Ragekniv

grizzbi wrote: »

So any discussion like "NB IS CRAP" get 3K views and many many unconstructive comments.

But when it's "Nightblade Soloing Craglorn", with a video, an explanation, and constructive feedback, there's no one anymore?

It says a lot...

Great! Wake me when there is a "Templar Soloing Craglorn", with a video, and a build and explanation.

Balance all classes or nerf them to the same level. I don't care anymore, I just want to be able to solo more than two VR6 mobs without it being a coin toss and my having to play a build I don't enjoy.

grizzbi

Ragekniv wrote: »

grizzbi wrote: »

So any discussion like "NB IS CRAP" get 3K views and many many unconstructive comments.

But when it's "Nightblade Soloing Craglorn", with a video, an explanation, and constructive feedback, there's no one anymore?

It says a lot...

Great! Wake me when there is a "Templar Soloing Craglorn", with a video, and a build and explanation.

Balance all classes or nerf them to the same level. I don't care anymore, I just want to be able to solo more than two VR6 mobs without it being a coin toss and my having to play a build I don't enjoy.

You probably won't see a templar soloing Craglorn because:
- We don't have resource management class skills like the others.
- Our ultimate are too expensive or less useful for this specific kind of build.
- A few other reason..

moXrox

What does this say to us ?

DK, Sorcerer and Nightblade soloing Craglorn are all using a staff as weapon !

* nobody should soloing group content at all
* staff weapons seem to be overpowered and need a nerf
* stamina melee weapons seem to have a huge disadvantage
* ESO has too much content where you need AoE abilities

grizzbi

moXrox wrote: »

What does this say to us ?

DK, Sorcerer and Nightblade soloing Craglorn are all using a staff as weapon !

* nobody should soloing group content at all
* staff weapons seem to be overpowered and need a nerf
* stamina melee weapons seem to have a huge disadvantage
* ESO has too much content where you need AoE abilities

- Staff weapons alone are not OP. It's the synergies available with them from other skills. You need to look at these other skills..
- Stamina builds are possible with every class but you need to carefully choose the weapons/skills combination and figure good skills rotation for different situations. You should never skip magicka. They are effective in solo PVE/PvP but in the current situation, they are harder to play in groups.
- You're right, AOE is too easy and too efficient with all the synergies available.

Mablung

Interesting stuff. We all know that resto/destro NB builds work. Actually is there a resto/destro build for any class that doesn't work? The point for all of the NB furor is that there seems to be only 1 way to play the class effectively.

This game was marketed in a manner that stated you could play your character in a limitless way with builds. This is obviously untrue. What most people think in terms of how the class should be played; it cannot be played that way (dual wield/bow/stamina builds etc.).

grizzbi

Mablung wrote: »

Interesting stuff. We all know that resto/destro NB builds work. Actually is there a resto/destro build for any class that doesn't work? The point for all of the NB furor is that there seems to be only 1 way to play the class effectively.

This game was marketed in a manner that stated you could play your character in a limitless way with builds. This is obviously untrue. What most people think in terms of how the class should be played; it cannot be played that way (dual wield/bow/stamina builds etc.).

Templar have no synergies with staves for AOE builds like in the video. But resto/destro is still a valid way to build a templar.

No one is forced to play a specific build. Sadly, people just play the FOTM. They don't try other builds or give up too easily..And when everyone is spamming AOE dps, it's difficult to play in such group if you're a melee..

Hatred871

Equipping a staff should change the class name.

Azinurn

The vids people keeps posting shows only one thing

Light armor + Destro/ resto staff = Elder Staffs or mages online

conclusion: Zeni please remove all other weaponskills since they are not needed.

grizzbi

Azinurn wrote: »

The vids people keeps posting shows only one thing

Light armor + Destro/ resto staff = Elder Staffs or mages online

conclusion: Zeni please remove all other weaponskills since they are not needed.

Oh well, I give up...

Ragekniv

grizzbi wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Interesting stuff. We all know that resto/destro NB builds work. Actually is there a resto/destro build for any class that doesn't work? The point for all of the NB furor is that there seems to be only 1 way to play the class effectively.

This game was marketed in a manner that stated you could play your character in a limitless way with builds. This is obviously untrue. What most people think in terms of how the class should be played; it cannot be played that way (dual wield/bow/stamina builds etc.).

Templar have no synergies with staves for AOE builds like in the video. But resto/destro is still a valid way to build a templar.

No one is forced to play a specific build. Sadly, people just play the FOTM. They don't try other builds or give up too easily..And when everyone is spamming AOE dps, it's difficult to play in such group if you're a melee..

What happened to the Zenimax marketing promise of play any class the way that you want?

What if I wanted to play a sword and board / bow Templar who used biting jabs?

I spent my time to VR5 cultivating a build, gear and weapons only to have to respec at great cost when they ninja nerfed biting jabs, made deadly bash pointless and bumped VR mob difficulty all before a holiday weekend. Thanks.

I had spent a fair amount of time using resto staff and was able to piece together a restro / destro build. My destro staff was only at lvl 14, its been rough.

So unless I want to respec, again. I am left playing a style I dont enjoy.

Meanwhile, class imbalance is painfully apparent after beta and three months release time.

How is this a reasonable or defensible position for player population to have to endure? When will the attrition of its player base begin? I'm sad to say it already appears to be happening.

Check your friends list or guilds and see how active they are anymore.

I hope class balance is established and soon.

Tamanous

Viable classes for pve in ESO (no secret ... known since beta):

DK + D-staff/R-Staff

Sorc + D-staff/R-staff

NB + D-staff/R-staff

Tempar + R-staff

Variety at it's best! Everything else is fluff for the pre-50 casuals. As I have mentioned before and pointed out by countless people for months, open skill system games always turn into tank mage playgrounds. ZOS was warned over and over again. I simply wish they would have listened and balanced accordingly. It would have been better to make magicka builds the least powerful and adjust from there.

ThisOnePosts

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

nothing special, DK and sorc with the same tactics are thousand better

A NB doing it is more impressive than a DK or Sorc. Sorry to be the one to point this out to the fanboys, but as of how classes stand.... DK and Sorc are good for people who aren't too good at video games. They have not only training wheels but also self-navigating GPS. NB and Templar take skill to play right.

Loco_Mofo

Even though I'm a NB, this video is depressing.

While it's good that someone has demonstrated that a NB can pull this off, it's sad to see they have to resort to the same old combo that everyone seems to be flocking too.

That is: light armor + resto staff + (optional) destro staff = win

FOTM? Sadly this is looking like flavor of the year. The mechanics are so skewed towards magicka builds I just don't think Zeni are capable of properly balancing this game anymore.

If they're not up to the challenge and this is the future of ESO, well that'll be why I unsub in the end.

Play how you want just makes me laugh every time i hear it. Sure play however you want, but don't expect to be effective or wanted in groups.

grizzbi

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Even though I'm a NB, this video is depressing.

While it's good that someone has demonstrated that a NB can pull this off, it's sad to see they have to resort to the same old combo that everyone seems to be flocking too.

That is: light armor + resto staff + (optional) destro staff = win

FOTM? Sadly this is looking like flavor of the year. The mechanics are so skewed towards magicka builds I just don't think Zeni are capable of properly balancing this game anymore.

If they're not up to the challenge and this is the future of ESO, well that'll be why I unsub in the end.

Play how you want just makes me laugh every time i hear it. Sure play however you want, but don't expect to be effective or wanted in groups.

I agree with you. They need to be up to the challenge.

Zenimax will show us if it's "flavor of the month" or "flavor of the year".. They should be prepared to balance the class on a regular basis. If it takes too long each time, people won't hesitate to use and abuse the game mechanics. It's already the case..

Anyway, people need to figure what's "broken" or "useless" and what's not. They tend to blame the game way too easily.

OkieDokie

grizzbi wrote: »

So any discussion like "NB IS CRAP" get 3K views and many many unconstructive comments.

But when it's "Nightblade Soloing Craglorn", with a video, an explanation, and constructive feedback, there's no one anymore?

It says a lot...

NB can take 4-7 packs (more the better actually), lots of us already explained that and how to do it. The problem is the poor single target dps which is way behind other classes. If you had read any of those threads you'd know.

ps: and sap essence costs more than impulse, so...unless they are planning to mess up with one of the only good NB skills, it is fine how it is.

beowulfsshield

grizzbi wrote: »

So any discussion like "NB IS CRAP" get 3K views and many many unconstructive comments.

But when it's "Nightblade Soloing Craglorn", with a video, an explanation, and constructive feedback, there's no one anymore?

It says a lot...

It does say a lot. In fact it's been mentioned several times in several threads. A NB with LA and a stick is the most effective DPS build for NB. The whining/crying/griping is coming from the folks who don't want to play a NB/sorc.

Kayira

The complain about NB doesn't come from the resto/destro NB's but the ones using a stamina build and assassination skill line.
In general there is a complain about stamina builds and not about magicka builds.
Also a lot if skillfull players can solo craglorn when they are skilled and on a magicka build.

grizzbi

1. This discussion purpose is not to demonstrate anything about NB. I thought it was interesting for players and for Zenimax. It's more about AOE synergies with skills like Force Siphon (there are others of course).
2. "Stamina build issues" or under-performing class tree is not a NB specific problem.
3. The "stamina issue" is not as bad as many people want to believe. And it's too generic. How stamina is bad? For DPS? for Tanking? Because of resource management? I got my own idea but this discussion is not about that. If you want to debate about this specific issue, please bring something constructive. It's not a fight between Magicka builds Vs Stamina builds...
4. NB have Zenimax attention. It's the first and only class to have a specific review! As a templar I think it's already not that bad..

Jeddahwe

I did not see the NB clear the entire 12 man, while the DK did...

xaraan

The biggest problem with most NB complaints is about stamina builds and medium armor more than NB powers themselves. Though they do need a lot of work to make some of the useless powers actually viable and they need a lot of fixes. (Let's be honest, with a sorc or tank doing this same thing they would be more effective) But, it's medium armor and weapon damage/powers that need the most love.

Kaskako

Jeddahwe wrote: »

I did not see the NB clear the entire 12 man, while the DK did...

The entire 12 man? Link please.

All i've seen is a dk soloing the first 3 trash groups.