Lowbie PvP Mechanics

Thunderchief

One of the selling points for me getting this game was that player levels would be equalised when fighting in pvp regardless of pve level. Apparently this does occur but I'm not sure how exactly. I started playing about 2 weeks after release and i was told at the time that higher level players have much greater benefit due to unlocked passives. So I waited and leveled up so I can get most of my passives for my skills.

This week I entered pvp for the first time and I had a lot of fun in a group but any time I went one-on-one with the enemy I died almost instantly while doing very little damage with my own attacks. Granted it was my first time in pvp and I have things to learn but with heavy armor with health glyphs and most of my points in health I expected to survive a bit longer.

While I was in a group some of the people we attacked it was 5 vs 1 and it took all of us attacking for 5-10 seconds to kill him.That's a lot of survivability!

What I would like to know is how the playing field is balanced.
Are my hp bumped up to what they would be if I was VR5?
Are my glyphs on armor bumped up to VR5 equivalents?
Is my armor score bumped up?
Is my hidden power stat bumped up?
Is my current weapon being treated as a VR5 equivalent?
(I'm saying VR5 a lot because I think I read somewhere that everything in Cyrodiil is VR5.

Considering I already have my passives what is it that is causing such a big gap between myself and VR players?

Looking at my stats in game I actually lose 300 armor by entering Cyrodiil which coincides with a battle spirit buff I get which gives 300 armor penetration and increased distance range of abilities. It also gives a health increase of 500 but no change was shown on my stats after entering Cyrodiil. Does this mean that in addition to losing 300 armor other people also have 300 armor penetration against me?

I can't find any other changes to stats upon entering the campaign.

Gisgo

I dont know numbers but non veterans are really, really soft, no matter the armor they are wearing.

I think you get buffed to equal a level 49 stats or something like that.

Thunderchief

Well it doesn't make pvping very appealing even after all the work I put into my character. I guess I'll just wait for my guilds pvp nights and get a zerg slot.

aleister

If you want to be competitive, you have to be VR12. Anyone saying any different is a VR12 looking for an easy kill.

Thunderchief

Thunderchief wrote: »

Are my hp bumped up to what they would be if I was VR5?
Are my glyphs on armor bumped up to VR5 equivalents?
Is my armor score bumped up?
Is my hidden power stat bumped up?
Is my current weapon being treated as a VR5 equivalent?

I've heard that most of the campaigns are empty and that most people are in either Auriels Bow or Wabbajack. I guess Auriels because it's on top of the list and Wabbajack because it's the wackiest name. Increasing the above listed items to VR5 for everyone below VR6 would get a lot more people into pvp.

aleister

Thunderchief wrote: »

Thunderchief wrote: »

Are my hp bumped up to what they would be if I was VR5?
Are my glyphs on armor bumped up to VR5 equivalents?
Is my armor score bumped up?
Is my hidden power stat bumped up?
Is my current weapon being treated as a VR5 equivalent?

I've heard that most of the campaigns are empty and that most people are in either Auriels Bow or Wabbajack. I guess Auriels because it's on top of the list and Wabbajack because it's the wackiest name. Increasing the above listed items to VR5 for everyone below VR6 would get a lot more people into pvp.

Getting rid of the tortuously-long VR grind would get a lot more people into PVP as well.

Crisscross

I don't know about most of your questions, but I do know that a pre-vr player's ARMOR does get lowered when entering Cyrodiil. Whatever the case with the other stats, the bottom line is that pre-VRs are just plain fodder.

I have no idea why it works like that. It's such a great way to turn people off and makes the quest grinding that much more monotonous. Lowbies should have their stats and gear bumped up to a competitive level, plain and simple. VRs already have enough of an advantage with their high tier skills and passives, there's no need to make lowbies completely useless.

Censorious

Armour in this game is generally not very strong.
Even at VR levels, simply equipping lots of heavy armour doesn't make you a tank It's all about passives and how you use your abilities.

A player that stands up to attack from 5 others is most likely using a shield ability and being buffed by an ally at the same time.

As for your questions: Your stats are bumped up to LvL49 equivalent. (Certainly not VR5 - that's the level of the NPC guards around keeps and resources)

Sestar

Hello,

Yes,
- unlocked stats at vetran rank are much stronger than pre-50 boosted stats *)
- having more passive skills helps
- being able to swap weapons gives utility
- more stuff..

Though,
- now you are able to toggle the "boosted stats effect"
- you will have to find your set of working active that works for YOU in pvp **)
- small scale pvp experts with one-vs-many builds and experience do have the upper hand vs small groups of semi-casuals ***)


We have been roaming with a small group of 4-6 since before we hit veteran ranks, and we could take on veterans early, too (now we are VR1, VR1, VR1, VR2, VR6, 34).

Regards,
Sestar


*) Veteran Rank 1..2 with green gear, max health, health glyphs, buff food, etc, achieve these stats: 1300/2900/1300, add res/armor jewelry, they reach 1700 on both defensive stats (pre-50 boosted stats have less health, but higher magicka and stamina as default; 1100 res, 700 armor). -- ok that might not have been encouraging..

**) Charge, root, pull, push, knock down/back/up, stun, (area) nuke, heal self, break cc (dodge roll^^), reflect, balance stamina and magicka use, bring a bow, etc.

***) Semi-casual was not meant as an offense, I am one as well. ^^

Thunderchief

Censorious wrote: »

As for your questions: Your stats are bumped up to LvL49 equivalent. (Certainly not VR5 - that's the level of the NPC guards around keeps and resources)

If you are questing/pvping in the zone shouldn't you be the same level as the enemies? I found some cave that had a shard in it but the orcs guarding it were way too powerful for me.

rotiferuk

Thunderchief wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

As for your questions: Your stats are bumped up to LvL49 equivalent. (Certainly not VR5 - that's the level of the NPC guards around keeps and resources)

If you are questing/pvping in the zone shouldn't you be the same level as the enemies? I found some cave that had a shard in it but the orcs guarding it were way too powerful for me.

Cyrodill is a PvP zone with caves, shards and some quests. It is not a PvE zone.

All NPC's in Cyrodiil are now VR5, including wolves and mudcrabs.

Jochamo

IMO, the recent pvp changes were ill-advised. This seems to be borne out by the low population on the pvp servers.

I am a low level that has been in pve and pvp since lvl 10. I am in no hurry to get to VR, but the recent changes have made the pvp unplayable for me.

blofthouse2004

PVP WAS great fun for me in the first month. now...well its all VR people and no matter what anyway says, if you dont have the gear you aint got a chance.

i've not pvp'ed for about 2 weeks and decided to pop in last night for a bit, level 44 but the way. Its lost all its fun, anyone level 10 players popping might as well forget it.

Shame as it was brilliant while people were levelling up to 50. they definately need to sort something out with the VR stuff as it might just kill the pvp...for me at least.

Wildhunt

Its worth going to Cyrodil at 10 to do the intro quest which gives a couple skill points. The skyshards by the scroll temples are easy to get also.

Yasha

Thunderchief wrote: »

One of the selling points for me getting this game was that player levels would be equalised when fighting in pvp regardless of pve level.

You may have misinterpreted the upleveling part. We get pushed up to level 49 stats as indicated by other posters, but this game's pvp is mainly a gear/levelling grind.

There is a huge difference in power between a well geared VR and a non-VR even if you have the same skills unlocked.

Not many mmos have level playing field pvp unfortunately.

Gisgo

The pvp in this game is hardly a gear/leveling grind, as you get next to no reward, nothing that you couldnt get faster by pveing anyway.
This isnt entirely negative imho, it makes me not care about my xp/hour and i can focus entirely on the FUN.

They should just buff non veteran PCs to the same level they buffed the NPCs: VR5 at the moment.

Stop raising the level cap for a few months would help, too.

Yasha

Gisgo wrote: »

The pvp in this game is hardly a gear/leveling grind, as you get next to no reward, nothing that you couldnt get faster by pveing anyway.

What you say is also true, but I meant that it is a gear/levelling grind as in your performance increases more based on your gear and level than on your skill.

In a pvp game where gear/level makes no difference skill is the differentiator, in most mmos it is hard to separate where gear ends and skill starts.

Emperor

Your attributes get bumped up to what they would be if you were level 49 and separated the points equally between health, stamina, and magicka.

The big difference between a low lv and veteran player is the armor, weapons, passives, and skills because those don't get bumped.

I believe that it is fine as it is. A high level player should be stronger than a low level player and the boost to attributes still makes it slightly competitive. If you make everyone completely the same then what is the point to leveling?

Gisgo

Either boost them of make them level faster because we need fresh blood and not discouraged lowbies.
Im not going to show mercy so its on Zos to buff them

Thunderchief

I guess they made the npc's VR5 so they aren't too easy for veteran players but didn't they realise this would create a 5 level gap for everyone under 50?

Crisscross

Emperor wrote: »

...and the boost to attributes still makes it slightly competitive...

Is this really true?

AryaWythers

Crisscross wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

...and the boost to attributes still makes it slightly competitive...

Is this really true?

Nope not at all a V10 PvE player can jump in and kill hordes of PvP players who despite the New Patch...can't level in PvP, since all the maps are empty

driosketch

Your spell resit and armor are around half, give or take, what a vet has. Your weapon damage is actually at about what a V10 green weapon would be.

MasterSpatula

I have much less of a problem with not being bolstered high enough to compete with the VRs as I do with them turning Cyrodiil's PVE into a VR5 zone. I haven't been back in since that change.

Censorious

Every MMO I've ever played there's been this same QQ about cap players vs lowbies.
In some games, they even left it as-is, at least in this game you get boosted to something near equality.

I always look on it as a chance to improve my skills in challenging conditions. I know that if I can survive as a lowbie, when I actually hit cap - I WILL BE A GOD!

This game particularly is about skill. Simply rushing into a fight mob-handed will only get you killed whatever your stats are.

Sil

Cyrodiil was a nice place to go if you wanted a break from questing as a lowbie.
No matter what is said, even with 2 people you aren't competitive enough anymore in your skills to match the higher leveled NPC's, if not both are near the 50s. And not all people want to become pvp gods. I encountered many people who just want to explore, find something valuable, make some other mission lines outside the given questline in the PVE area. In my eyes there is much potential wasted seeing cyrodiil just as a high level PVP arena for mostly veterans. Quite a lot people aren't happy with this.

Another thing about pvp: It would be nice to have beneath this big campaign seperate small pvp instances, seperated for level 10-30/ 30-50/Vetx, where just
a small island or something with a castle is to conquer. A playground for small pvp fights. I mean, perhaps the company should think about fun, not only hard grinding to VETlevelX....

Soulharvester

At level 10, I went into battle. Joined a big group and followed everyone.

I noticed my stats were changed but didnt pay too much attention to it.

Since I was a level 10, I had the imperial edition horse so my speed was at 16 I think at the time.

I was in the back, a vampire jumped out of no where. Took me off the horse and then another vampire shows up and they just play with me for a little bit.

It took 2 shots and I was on the ground, then poof they disappeared.

I watched from the ground as they did this to another straggler.

Which got me thinking!

I did not follow the pack, packs attracts vampires apparently! So I went my own path, around choke points, bottle necks, never went near a raised positions, my survivability increased, in fact I did not die as much after I employed that.

I also learned how to stealth, you can all stealth no matter what class. Some can do it better than others but whats 3 meters in a zerg, not much lol.

I tend to stick with ranged weapons, I am never the first through a door, and if you see yourself covered in shiny ball, run away from everyone friendly or toward someone you dont like and just block! Cause your gonna explode!

I love it all though, good and bad, its all fun. As I increased in level, I noticed I was a little stronger. If I saw a vet I just stayed away till other vets jumped on em, then I would join in. Just watch out for traps and ambushes! Those are really fun to do if you the one ambushing!

Enjoy what you can while you can!

Another thing you can try is get into an organized PVP guild like Ruin Gaming, they the best out there from what I have seen.

Censorious

The VR5 NPCs that have been placed around keeps and resources are there for one purpose - to prevent ninja capping.
Lowbie or VR12 - it's all the same to these babies. Don't mess with them.

@Soulharvester‌ My take on it exactly. Who learns, wins.

Crisscross

Censorious wrote: »

...boosted to something near equality...

Is this really true...?

Censorious

Crisscross wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

...boosted to something near equality...

Is this really true...?

You get boosted to Lvl 49 equivalent, less passives. VR1 (Lvl50) will still have an advantage but it's not so much that a bad VR can beat a good lvl 10.

When I say 'good' I don't mean some sort of PvP god that can solo a dozen players with one hand. I mean good at hiding behind a rock and clubbing the poor SoB with a brick when he ain't looking.

Crisscross

Censorious wrote: »

Crisscross wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

...boosted to something near equality...

Is this really true...?

You get boosted to Lvl 49 equivalent, less passives. VR1 (Lvl50) will still have an advantage but it's not so much that a bad VR can beat a good lvl 10.

When I say 'good' I don't mean some sort of PvP god that can solo a dozen players with one hand. I mean good at hiding behind a rock and clubbing the poor SoB with a brick when he ain't looking.

I will have an easier time believing you if you told me that the sky was green.

Last week I was in the mid 40s, and got the jump on a HALF HEALTH veteran ranked straggler. I immobilized him, then stunned him, then wailed on him. His HP bar barely moved, and when the stun wore off, he got some distance, healed himself, then one shotted me with soul strike.

Now I'm VR1 and I've taken part and won 2 1v1s (where I got the jump on them and knocked them off their horse, but still, at least I can actually do DAMAGE now), and can regularly survive charging into the melee of a zerg. If I tried meleeing in a zerg fight before I got veteran rank, I'd get toasted by random AOEs within the first five seconds of charging in. I'd get toasted by random AOEs alot of the times even if I stayed at range.

So until someone convinces me that my experiences are just completely anecdotal, I call BS on any claim that says pre-VRs are in any way competitive. If this is the intended system, then it needs to be changed, plain and simple, because lowbies are just being turned off by the dozen. If not, then something is clearly broken under the hood with how the bolster buff works.