Class Fixes, ill do it for you ZoS.

Laranoye

They should not have so much stuff require magika…. the way i see it:

DK and nightblade, abilities should mainly use stamina,

Templar and Sorc, abilities should mainly use magika.

Certain passives need to be fixed,

more magika generation for templar and sorc

more stam regen for DK and NB.

Abilities should scale better with the classes main attribute.

NOT magika for EVERY ability except weapons.

They already did this with some weapons, melee cost stamina, staff etc use magika…. why not use the same aspect for classes?

There I basically just fixed their game.

Anyone who disagrees is a Staff wielding DK who wants to continue to brake the game. I believe this is the fairest way to start balancing the game.

At least then people will stop comparing their "broken" class to a DK and therefore declaring their class broken.

ARtChi

Interesting points here but the overall solution you are asking for is so huge, you risk to break all classes mechanisms.
Problem is indeed related to Stamina / magika balance, but i think there are may be simplier and less risky way to fix this.

As you pointed it out, as a magika user with a good stuff and template, you can basically spam all your spells without running low and still block, dodge, etc. Whereas you cannot do the same thing with a stamina build. That is the main problem ZoS have to focus on.

If you give more stamina/magika to one class over an other, what do you do ? You just specialised classes in a particular role (physical vs caster).
I don't think its much in ESO phylosophie.

In my opinion, stamina build should just provide a higher and more consistant dps overtime, whereas magika should be more burst oriented.
I would recommand to higher magika cost of offensive spells especially for aoe which shouldn't be such a spam.
On the opposite, raise stamina regeneration cap (for specialised builds) because it should never be a dilemna to choose between dps and a roll dodge.
I wouldn't lower magika regeneration, because it works fine for healers and there is a risk to damage this.
I wouldn't raise the amount of domage from stamina, because you would just imbalance PvP

Just simple adjustement could change many things

Laranoye

Yes i agree, I know its difficult to point out where problems lie. But from all the info i have gathered from various sites, It appears that magika is the key to all the problems.
It possibly is difficult to fix in this way.
Maybe as you say an increased cost in offensive spells, whereas a build solely for dps and casting will need to spec only in magika.
But therein the problem with that is, currently the DK and Sorc can invest soley in magika and still be good in all areas.
Which is where my Idea comes in,
To change some class abilities to use stamina too rather than magika. they could reduce the stam cost for block and dodge to counter this.

*they could even go the way they run armor skill passive's. Have an underlying buff for set skilllines, the more skills in that line you have hotbared then you get a good buff orientated to that spec line.

Zeeed

problem is that Medium and Heavy armour need buffs. Massive ones

Fchild221

I admit to being a non-hardcore player and I haven't been doing much PVP but I don't see a need to do a major overhaul of the system at this point. I think the classes are pretty close to balanced and just asking for more of everything isn't going to improve the game. The challenge is managing your resources.

Falmer

Well, your solution of "balancing" the game by severe restricting how people are allowed to play it, certainly wouldn't be my choice.

I am a huge fan of non-traditional classes. If balancing means I can no longer play a mage DK or an archer DK, or a Storm Warrior Sorc, then I would prefer the game remain "unbalanced".

If they want to balance the game, they simply need to look at the scaling mechanism for stamina as characters level. a roll dodge shouldn't still take half your stamina bar at level 50, the same as it does at lvl 5. Obviously, there has to be some scaling, but certainly the percentage can be tweaked slightly, such that the longer battles at higher levels are compensated.

An all stamina build should have as much staying power in a long combat as an all magicka build.

Laranoye

Falmer wrote: »

Well, your solution of "balancing" the game by severe restricting how people are allowed to play it, certainly wouldn't be my choice.

I am a huge fan of non-traditional classes. If balancing means I can no longer play a mage DK or an archer DK, or a Storm Warrior Sorc, then I would prefer the game remain "unbalanced".

If they want to balance the game, they simply need to look at the scaling mechanism for stamina as characters level. a roll dodge shouldn't still take half your stamina bar at level 50, the same as it does at lvl 5. Obviously, there has to be some scaling, but certainly the percentage can be tweaked slightly, such that the longer battles at higher levels are compensated.

An all stamina build should have as much staying power in a long combat as an all magicka build.

What? Do you know what you even wrote...
There is no non-traditional classes at present, Nor can it get anymore restricted than it already is?!
Theres one class/build that is the only thing that works and that is a Mage type, especially a DK mage. weilding a staff.

I dont know about anyone else but i hate pure mage style play, I got this game because apparantly i could be anything and do well, Not be cornered into 1 cookie cutter build to get anywhere.

frwinters_ESO

If you read the class descriptions the DK is a magic wielding warrior, the NB is a magic wielding assassin. They use magic. Everyone uses magic. Magic Magic Magic, Elderscrolls is Magic. Magic!!!!

Laranoye

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

If you read the class descriptions the DK is a magic wielding warrior, the NB is a magic wielding assassin. They use magic. Everyone uses magic. Magic Magic Magic, Elderscrolls is Magic. Magic!!!!

Lol, Yeah but if every is magic, magic, magic! why do only 2 classes far surpass the others.

crowfl56

Hmmmm, lets see balance the amount of magika/stam a class use's ?
I would say watch what you're using, quit spamming a certain spell and complain it use's to much magic or stam.
I don't believe any large AOE should be able to be spammed period, especially in pvp. Now after saying this, remember you can have any number of say, casters throwing that big AOE, which can be a great killing field.
Your build also makes a big difference plus, food or drink, enchants, and mundas bonus.

Wargasmo

The problem with your solution is that currently we have 2 op classes: DK and Sorc mainly because of overpowered ulitmates and powerful passive synergies.

With your proposed solution of pushing DK's to stam, sorcs will still be a good mile ahead of Templars and NB will still be a joke, it's just that DK's will join NB as a joke class. Stamina based skills just don't do enough dmg and can't be used frequently enough given the need to block, roll, and sprint out of crap by in trials situations (who cares about balancing while leveling).

Correct balancing goes like this: up banner cost to 450... same cost as other aoe ultimates. Change DK 3% dmg taken ultimate to 25% dmg taken. Reduce passive synergies to fire by 1/3. Sorc: no changes... maybe lower speed bonus of bolt escape to be more in line with other movement speed bonuses. Templar: Fix biting jabs, up dmg on dark flare and reflective light line skills to be in line with biting jabs so you have a skill rotation instead of merely spamming one skill. Remove cast time from power of the light line skills. Give us a passive magicka recovery skill. NB: fix this class so it actually works, make it aoe capable, and up give it a way to resteath/reopen consistently in pve fights.

After class rebalancing, they need to weapon rebalance. 2h skills need a 25% across the board buff. I'd say bow and DW could use 10%. S/B is fine and should remain a tree dedicated to people who want to tank and absorb dmg while providing debuff utility. Destro staff passives could use a slight nerf. Resto staff needs a mechanic that reduces the mana back from a heavy attack if you haven't used a resto staff skill in the last minute.

Ulti per crit needs to be nerfed to stop people from farming ulti and spamming ulti.

Certain mage guild like spells are too powerful with synergy and should be nerfed. Volcanic rune needs to take at least at 25% hit.

And there, your game is moderately balanced. Everyone will perform at about 800-900 dps... current sorc level.

Laranoye

Wargasmo wrote: »

The problem with your solution is that currently we have 2 op classes: DK and Sorc mainly because of overpowered ulitmates and powerful passive synergies.

With your proposed solution of pushing DK's to stam, sorcs will still be a good mile ahead of Templars and NB will still be a joke, it's just that DK's will join NB as a joke class. Stamina based skills just don't do enough dmg and can't be used frequently enough given the need to block, roll, and sprint out of crap by in trials situations (who cares about balancing while leveling).

Correct balancing goes like this: up banner cost to 450... same cost as other aoe ultimates. Change DK 3% dmg taken ultimate to 25% dmg taken. Reduce passive synergies to fire by 1/3. Sorc: no changes... maybe lower speed bonus of bolt escape to be more in line with other movement speed bonuses. Templar: Fix biting jabs, up dmg on dark flare and reflective light line skills to be in line with biting jabs so you have a skill rotation instead of merely spamming one skill. Remove cast time from power of the light line skills. Give us a passive magicka recovery skill. NB: fix this class so it actually works, make it aoe capable, and up give it a way to resteath/reopen consistently in pve fights.

After class rebalancing, they need to weapon rebalance. 2h skills need a 25% across the board buff. I'd say bow and DW could use 10%. S/B is fine and should remain a tree dedicated to people who want to tank and absorb dmg while providing debuff utility. Destro staff passives could use a slight nerf. Resto staff needs a mechanic that reduces the mana back from a heavy attack if you haven't used a resto staff skill in the last minute.

Ulti per crit needs to be nerfed to stop people from farming ulti and spamming ulti.

Certain mage guild like spells are too powerful with synergy and should be nerfed. Volcanic rune needs to take at least at 25% hit.

And there, your game is moderately balanced. Everyone will perform at about 800-900 dps... current sorc level.

Those changes my friend would be epic, And much better than mine haha.
Mine were very drastic.
This is definitely something they should implement.

Armitas

I have been trying to think of a way to fix the magic/stamina problem. I think one way to do it is to create a new bar called power. (similar to horse stamina bar). Your power bar is equal to your total stamina and magicka bar divided by 2. This bar would run things like, BE, roll, dodge, manual stealth (haven't worked out the particulars here), CC break, bash, blocking, sprinting, interrupt etc. Power recovery is the total magicka and stamina recovery divided by 2.

That would immediately separate the dual consumption of stamina for melee builds.

They could even use the bar to give an illusion of a GCD as an exhaustion debuff. If you spam a particular skill consecutively then it will begin to progressively consume more power staring from 0 consumption. If you run out of power you can still cast those same skills but you will no longer have the power to block, sprint etc. If they find a skill that they feel is out of line they can tie it into the power bar giving them a separate and independent point from which to balance a class without adding a GCD or lowering the individual strength of a skill.

They could even provide a further disincentive to spamming by making the remaining power in the power bar provide a damage bonus. So if you have 75% of your power left your attacks do X% more damage.

khele23eb17_ESO

Introducing a 3rd resource pool for dodge/block/sprint would really be a good start to balancing the whole combat system in ESO. If that doesnt happen stamina builds will always hava a disadvantage compared to magicka builds. Unfortunatelly I dont think theyre going to go that way since skyrim didnt have a separate resource for these things *rolls eyes*

Wargasmo

you can balance stam builds with magicka builds if the stam abilities hit slightly harder than magicka counterparts. Using them should be risk v reward. But there should be incentive to have a stam dump skill on your bar to increase dps. As it stands, everyone uses resto/destro or resto/resto and a full bar of magicka skills, with stamina saved exclusively for block dodge roll and cc break.

imo it's ok for full stam builds to be not viable. you can make the skills support or dps dump skills that cost a lot of stam to use. However, currently there is no reason to every slot a stam skill, and that needs to be changed so that there is a potential dps increase from having that skill on the bar.

Not every idea or build needs to be viable. There's no need to make full weapon skill stam setups perform on par with a class skill setup. Play it your way is a stupid catchphrase and people who want to be pretty pretty unique snowflakes with special builds can go play something noncompetitive like... blues clues. Snowflakes melt when they stand in fire. However, every skill needs to actually serve a purpose. When a skill or a skill line (WW anyone? 2h?) is bad enough that no one who cared about being competitive would ever slot it, that's bad game design. Skills should be competitive, or, at least good in a situational context. There will always be a "theoretical best" cookie cutter build, but other skills should bring utility appeal to a trial/raid setting. They should boost group dps, provide good synergies, or otherwise facilitate smoother encounters via cc, damage reduction, or resource management for the raid. Ideally, a well run raid would be asking "hey, is anyone running Utility_skill_001?" before going into a difficult dps check or high damage encounter. One-per-raid skills bring flavor and intricacy to the raid setting and allows for more complex raid encounters to be developed when they become standard.

Certainly, each class should have enough utility and raw damage output to justify taking at least one of that class in the raid in a dps capacity, as dps needs to be the universally fillable role regardless of class and should not be the sole realm of dk's and sorcs since they take up around 8-9 of the available slots in a 12 man trail run.

yelloweyedemon

Thats why you have to mix weapon abilities with class abilities. If you want to have exclusivelly magic consuming abilities, then go with light armour and magicka stuff. The game gives everyone the chance to play as they want, and people want to go back to the MMO stereotypes...

But then again why do I bother..? *crycry DK overpowered, crycry I can't faceroll as a NB, crycry*

Bromburak

Laranoye wrote: »

They should not have so much stuff require magika….

Wait til the new skill lines are patched ...

Wargasmo

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Thats why you have to mix weapon abilities with class abilities. If you want to have exclusivelly magic consuming abilities, then go with light armour and magicka stuff. The game gives everyone the chance to play as they want, and people want to go back to the MMO stereotypes...

But then again why do I bother..? *crycry DK overpowered, crycry I can't faceroll as a NB, crycry*

I CAN faceroll as a Templar. I can't, however, hit 1.2k dps single target. If I try really hard I can sustain maybe 800. Nb's definitely can't do it either. And only the best sorcs will break 900. DK's ARE op. You might play a DK and pull the same 800 dps as me, but that just makes you a terrible DK or a dead DK, while it makes me an amazing Templar.

No one cares about being able to solo 3 packs or 5 packs in pub dungeons. Any idiot with volcanic rune and a resto staff can do that. What we care about is that DK's outperform any other class at both tanking and dps... AT THE SAME TIME. They far outshine any other class in terms of dps output or survivability tools. Sorcs bring an incredibly useful ground hazard removal tool and do good dps, and Templars bring burst heals, the only mass healing ulti in the game, and a few utility skills which only require one templar, which is the only reason I get into serious trial content. The issue right now is that everyone wants to stack the raid with DK and sorc dps with Sorc and Templar healers. This means a typical raid will have 4-6 slots for a DK, 4-6 slots for a sorc, 1-3 slots for a Templar and exactly 0 slots for a nightblade, as there is effectively nothing the NB does that another class cannot do much, much better.

The game doesn't need to be easy for everyone, but top potential needs to be relatively equal or at least enough to merit a fairly even spread of classes in a 12 man raid. If this game ever gives us an instance of the caliber that some of us are hoping for (true competitive progression raiding, not this all clear in 2 days puggable bs) It will matter a LOT if your class is holding the short stick in terms of class balancing. It's a lot easier to be recruited to a progression guild when you're gunning for one of 4-5 specific role openings in the raid than when you're trying to justify yourself as the token Templar healer or, even worse, the take-pity-on-me-and-carry-me-in-hopes-I-one-day-get-buffed nightblade.

So no... we don't care about the play it your way crowd. Proponents of class balance are worried about the parity of best-in-slot, top performing build dps specs across various classes. Because it matters who and what you take to a progression race, and no one wants to be warming a bench for a mouthbreathing idiot who has 1/3 their situational awareness and game sense simply because they rolled a DK in Elder Staff Wielding Fire DK's Online.

roflcopter

Id like to see Zen take him up on his offer. Then wait for the apology thread once he/she realizes it isn't as easy as they think.

Wargasmo

roflcopter wrote: »

Id like to see Zen take him up on his offer. Then wait for the apology thread once he/she realizes it isn't as easy as they think.

I could do it easily... it's a few changes to select coefficients and game values in the code. The problem isn't that it's hard to fix, It's that ZOS seems to think it's more important to fix trivial leveling quest bugs, graphical glitches, and twiddle around with exploit threats instead of balancing class and weapon line performance. In Skyrim, or Oblivion, or any other single player game they'd be right. But in an mmo...

They're wrong. Issues that influence the player to player and community interactions should ALWAYS take precedence in MMO's. No one cares about the small glitches and crashes that happen along the way unless they are truly game breaking. No one cares that Joe_Schmoe did Vr1-6 in Fungal Grotto in a day or VR 10-12 in 4 hours farming Kardala. Being VR 12 doesn't make you any better at not standing in red zones of death, following raid instructions, or knowing how to output good dps while executing mechanics. ZoS needs to learn the difference between the crap we don't care about (like this and the hundred other broken side quests that no one does except ppl getting a vanity achievement) and exploits that need immediate attention because they actually have long term repercussions to end game progression (like the early duping bug, which they ignored for weeks). Fix what is a danger to the community, then get back to balancing the classes.

I know this is your first MMO, ZoS, but please realize that this IS an MMO, not one of your single player Elder Scrolls games. Trivial bugs don't matter as much as class balance. If no one wants your class for their group, it doesn't matter how pretty or smooth the game is. People will quit. Or they will reroll and quit before hitting max lvl on their dk. Or they will reroll and the game will lack diversity and be that much poorer a world and community for only having people playing DK's. In a single player game it doesn't matter as much if one class choice is harder to play through the game with as another. In an MMO, the mantra: "want a challenge? try playing as a Nightblade" or "Having trouble? Reroll DK" is unacceptable and terminal for the health of the game. (Note that I do not propose that everyone should be able to everything great. "Play a Templar... better get used to healing" is perfectly acceptable as long as they can find a way to allow for equal representation in a raid either by making us competitive dps or by making us SO far and away good at healing that a raid would be foolish to take anything other than the perfunctory 3 Templar healers.) Specialization is fine. Creating trinity-type segregation is fine. Having gimp classes and underrepresentation in raiding is not.

The balancing test should be: if I can do something within my power to respect/restat/rerole (that's role with an e... not reroll)/relearn without rolling a new class and get into a raid without having to reroll another class (cough dk). and if everyone in my class did that too and the ideal raid comp ended up with 3-4 members of my class in the raid, my class is fine. 4 classes, 12 spots in the raid. the 3-4 per class standard of desirability is what ZoS needs to balance classes around, and the easiest way to do this is by balancing dps output since 8-9 spots in a raid are dps.

It's obvious that ZoS doesn't have anyone on staff who has extensive play experience at the higher levels of competitive MMO raiding or even PvP. Or if they do, that person is doing a *** poor job of either making himself heard or doing his job in general. Why don't you guys drop at Zenimax drop me a line and I'll fix things for you. Since I actually play your game and have a vested interest in its success, I'll even waive a portion of my retainer fee.

Once again:

up banner cost to 450... same cost as other aoe ultimates. Change DK 3% dmg taken ultimate to 25% dmg taken. Reduce passive synergies to fire by 1/3. Sorc: no changes... maybe lower speed bonus of bolt escape to be more in line with other movement speed bonuses. Templar: Fix biting jabs, up dmg on dark flare and reflective light line skills to be in line with biting jabs so you have a skill rotation instead of merely spamming one skill. Remove cast time from power of the light line skills. Give us a passive magicka recovery skill. NB: fix this class so it actually works, make it aoe capable, and up give it a way to resteath/reopen consistently in pve fights.

After class rebalancing, they need to weapon rebalance. 2h skills need a 25% across the board buff. I'd say bow and DW could use 10%. S/B is fine and should remain a tree dedicated to people who want to tank and absorb dmg while providing debuff utility. Destro staff passives could use a slight nerf. Resto staff needs a mechanic that reduces the mana back from a heavy attack if you haven't used a resto staff skill in the last minute.

Ulti per crit needs to be nerfed to stop people from farming ulti and spamming ulti.

Certain mage guild like spells are too powerful with synergy and should be nerfed. Volcanic rune needs to take at least at 25% hit.

Only thing that's that need real coding work is my proposed change to resto staff mana back on heavy attack change and fixing NB skills, and the Templar biting jabs so they aren't broken.

Easy to code, balances class performance, and promotes the limited use of stam abilities in various builds. Better for the game. In general. Unless you play a fire staff dk who is consistently underperforming and doing 800 dps when your class is currently capable of 1.4k dps. Then you might not like the changes since everyone else will suddenly do 800 dps and no one will want your 600 dps gimp character anymore.

ErykGrimm

Wargasmo wrote: »

roflcopter wrote: »

Id like to see Zen take him up on his offer. Then wait for the apology thread once he/she realizes it isn't as easy as they think.

I could do it easily... it's a few changes to select coefficients and game values in the code. The problem isn't that it's hard to fix, It's that ZOS seems to think it's more important to fix trivial leveling quest bugs, graphical glitches, and twiddle around with exploit threats instead of balancing class and weapon line performance. In Skyrim, or Oblivion, or any other single player game they'd be right. But in an mmo...

They're wrong. Issues that influence the player to player and community interactions should ALWAYS take precedence in MMO's. No one cares about the small glitches and crashes that happen along the way unless they are truly game breaking. No one cares that Joe_Schmoe did Vr1-6 in Fungal Grotto in a day or VR 10-12 in 4 hours farming Kardala. Being VR 12 doesn't make you any better at not standing in red zones of death, following raid instructions, or knowing how to output good dps while executing mechanics. ZoS needs to learn the difference between the crap we don't care about (like this and the hundred other broken side quests that no one does except ppl getting a vanity achievement) and exploits that need immediate attention because they actually have long term repercussions to end game progression (like the early duping bug, which they ignored for weeks). Fix what is a danger to the community, then get back to balancing the classes.

I know this is your first MMO, ZoS, but please realize that this IS an MMO, not one of your single player Elder Scrolls games. Trivial bugs don't matter as much as class balance. If no one wants your class for their group, it doesn't matter how pretty or smooth the game is. People will quit. Or they will reroll and quit before hitting max lvl on their dk. Or they will reroll and the game will lack diversity and be that much poorer a world and community for only having people playing DK's. In a single player game it doesn't matter as much if one class choice is harder to play through the game with as another. In an MMO, the mantra: "want a challenge? try playing as a Nightblade" or "Having trouble? Reroll DK" is unacceptable and terminal for the health of the game. (Note that I do not propose that everyone should be able to everything great. "Play a Templar... better get used to healing" is perfectly acceptable as long as they can find a way to allow for equal representation in a raid either by making us competitive dps or by making us SO far and away good at healing that a raid would be foolish to take anything other than the perfunctory 3 Templar healers.) Specialization is fine. Creating trinity-type segregation is fine. Having gimp classes and underrepresentation in raiding is not.

The balancing test should be: if I can do something within my power to respect/restat/rerole (that's role with an e... not reroll)/relearn without rolling a new class and get into a raid without having to reroll another class (cough dk). and if everyone in my class did that too and the ideal raid comp ended up with 3-4 members of my class in the raid, my class is fine. 4 classes, 12 spots in the raid. the 3-4 per class standard of desirability is what ZoS needs to balance classes around, and the easiest way to do this is by balancing dps output since 8-9 spots in a raid are dps.

It's obvious that ZoS doesn't have anyone on staff who has extensive play experience at the higher levels of competitive MMO raiding or even PvP. Or if they do, that person is doing a *** poor job of either making himself heard or doing his job in general. Why don't you guys drop at Zenimax drop me a line and I'll fix things for you. Since I actually play your game and have a vested interest in its success, I'll even waive a portion of my retainer fee.

Once again:

up banner cost to 450... same cost as other aoe ultimates. Change DK 3% dmg taken ultimate to 25% dmg taken. Reduce passive synergies to fire by 1/3. Sorc: no changes... maybe lower speed bonus of bolt escape to be more in line with other movement speed bonuses. Templar: Fix biting jabs, up dmg on dark flare and reflective light line skills to be in line with biting jabs so you have a skill rotation instead of merely spamming one skill. Remove cast time from power of the light line skills. Give us a passive magicka recovery skill. NB: fix this class so it actually works, make it aoe capable, and up give it a way to resteath/reopen consistently in pve fights.

After class rebalancing, they need to weapon rebalance. 2h skills need a 25% across the board buff. I'd say bow and DW could use 10%. S/B is fine and should remain a tree dedicated to people who want to tank and absorb dmg while providing debuff utility. Destro staff passives could use a slight nerf. Resto staff needs a mechanic that reduces the mana back from a heavy attack if you haven't used a resto staff skill in the last minute.

Ulti per crit needs to be nerfed to stop people from farming ulti and spamming ulti.

Certain mage guild like spells are too powerful with synergy and should be nerfed. Volcanic rune needs to take at least at 25% hit.

Only thing that's that need real coding work is my proposed change to resto staff mana back on heavy attack change and fixing NB skills, and the Templar biting jabs so they aren't broken.

Easy to code, balances class performance, and promotes the limited use of stam abilities in various builds. Better for the game. In general. Unless you play a fire staff dk who is consistently underperforming and doing 800 dps when your class is currently capable of 1.4k dps. Then you might not like the changes since everyone else will suddenly do 800 dps and no one will want your 600 dps gimp character anymore.

In case you didn't know, ZOS had nothing to do with any of the original Elder Scrolls titles. Just a heads up.

Wargasmo

ErykGrimm wrote: »

In case you didn't know, ZOS had nothing to do with any of the original Elder Scrolls titles. Just a heads up.

They are, however, going about post-launch treating the game as if it were a single player elder scrolls title rather than an mmo. People want different things from the two genres and ZoS is trying to give the proverbial drowning man a drink of water.

Natjur

Drop the medium armor line (just have light and heavy)
Drop templars and NB and allow them to be converted to DK or Sorc
Covert all skills and weapons to use Magic and use stamina just for block, dodge and interrupt

FIXED

lao

Laranoye wrote: »

They should not have so much stuff require magika…. the way i see it:

DK and nightblade, abilities should mainly use stamina,

Templar and Sorc, abilities should mainly use magika.

Certain passives need to be fixed,

more magika generation for templar and sorc

more stam regen for DK and NB.

Abilities should scale better with the classes main attribute.

NOT magika for EVERY ability except weapons.

They already did this with some weapons, melee cost stamina, staff etc use magika…. why not use the same aspect for classes?

There I basically just fixed their game.

Anyone who disagrees is a Staff wielding DK who wants to continue to brake the game. I believe this is the fairest way to start balancing the game.

At least then people will stop comparing their "broken" class to a DK and therefore declaring their class broken.

no u didnt fix the game. u broke it even more.

1) if u make DK and NB skills stamina based that only means that templar and sorc can afford to break CC while NB and DK are forced to sit through it.

2) if u make NB and DK class skills stamina based it effectively leave those classes with a significant smaller stat pool when compared to the other 2 classes. you therefor force DK and NB to use staffs cos what else would they spend magicka on?

3) more magicka regen for sorc/templar? awesome so u wanna give the 2 classes that use their stamina only for CC break and sprint/stealth even more firepower by increasing their magicka regen while u want to buff stamina regen on DK/NB which still doesnt solve the problem of where the hell they are supposed to spend their magicka on.

4) with ur changes a sorc/templar can just sprint away from a DK/NB. effectively draining their MAIN stat pool for keeping up with the sorc/templar. so after 20 secs of run and hide the DK/NB will be completely depleted on stamina unable to do any serious dps while the sorc/templar can just turn around and still have a FULL bar of their main statpool to kill them. also blocking is stamina based aswell.

5) abilities should scale more with the main class atribute? congratz u just killed the tiny little bit of build diversity the game had to offer.

anyone who agrees with ur ideas is a clueless nubcake that doesnt understand anything about the game and its mechanics. posts like this are the reason why we need a VIP forum for balancing issues where only ppl that actually know wtf they talking about are invited and which no1 else can even see. seriously no offense but ur suggestions are all trash from start to finish. dont fool urself into thinking u know what ur talking about. u fixed nothing u just broke the few things that worked properly.

yelloweyedemon

Wargasmo wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Thats why you have to mix weapon abilities with class abilities. If you want to have exclusivelly magic consuming abilities, then go with light armour and magicka stuff. The game gives everyone the chance to play as they want, and people want to go back to the MMO stereotypes...

But then again why do I bother..? *crycry DK overpowered, crycry I can't faceroll as a NB, crycry*

I CAN faceroll as a Templar. I can't, however, hit 1.2k dps single target. If I try really hard I can sustain maybe 800. Nb's definitely can't do it either. And only the best sorcs will break 900. DK's ARE op. You might play a DK and pull the same 800 dps as me, but that just makes you a terrible DK or a dead DK, while it makes me an amazing Templar.

No one cares about being able to solo 3 packs or 5 packs in pub dungeons. Any idiot with volcanic rune and a resto staff can do that. What we care about is that DK's outperform any other class at both tanking and dps... AT THE SAME TIME. They far outshine any other class in terms of dps output or survivability tools. Sorcs bring an incredibly useful ground hazard removal tool and do good dps, and Templars bring burst heals, the only mass healing ulti in the game, and a few utility skills which only require one templar, which is the only reason I get into serious trial content. The issue right now is that everyone wants to stack the raid with DK and sorc dps with Sorc and Templar healers. This means a typical raid will have 4-6 slots for a DK, 4-6 slots for a sorc, 1-3 slots for a Templar and exactly 0 slots for a nightblade, as there is effectively nothing the NB does that another class cannot do much, much better.

The game doesn't need to be easy for everyone, but top potential needs to be relatively equal or at least enough to merit a fairly even spread of classes in a 12 man raid. If this game ever gives us an instance of the caliber that some of us are hoping for (true competitive progression raiding, not this all clear in 2 days puggable bs) It will matter a LOT if your class is holding the short stick in terms of class balancing. It's a lot easier to be recruited to a progression guild when you're gunning for one of 4-5 specific role openings in the raid than when you're trying to justify yourself as the token Templar healer or, even worse, the take-pity-on-me-and-carry-me-in-hopes-I-one-day-get-buffed nightblade.

So no... we don't care about the play it your way crowd. Proponents of class balance are worried about the parity of best-in-slot, top performing build dps specs across various classes. Because it matters who and what you take to a progression race, and no one wants to be warming a bench for a mouthbreathing idiot who has 1/3 their situational awareness and game sense simply because they rolled a DK in Elder Staff Wielding Fire DK's Online.

I've seen templars doing 1k dps. Also a friend of mine that plays temp told me that in his build, the lower the boss's health, the more damage he can do due to some skills, while DK's can't do that. So your point is that DK's are broken because they can do 0,2 more dps than you? Yes it might be easier to play, but all mmo's have braindead,easy,basic and advanced difficulty classes.

Same thing goes for raiding. Just find a guild that does not run FOTM class runs. In every MMO you'll find fotm exclusive runs. Those people will just switch to the next "OP" class in the next update, just because they only care for numbers to boost their e-peens.

Wargasmo

"yelloweyedemon wrote: »

I've seen templars doing 1k dps. Also a friend of mine that plays temp told me that in his build, the lower the boss's health, the more damage he can do due to some skills, while DK's can't do that. So your point is that DK's are broken because they can do 0,2 more dps than you? Yes it might be easier to play, but all mmo's have braindead,easy,basic and advanced difficulty classes.

Same thing goes for raiding. Just find a guild that does not run FOTM class runs. In every MMO you'll find fotm exclusive runs. Those people will just switch to the next "OP" class in the next update, just because they only care for numbers to boost their e-peens.

First of all, you haven't seen templars doing 1k dps because the game's current addon situation doesnt support group meters. What you've seen is people lying about their dps in order to get into a trail group. Your friend either A) must have not played since craiglorn came out because they broke the skill you're talking about that used to allow Templars to do decent dps, or is lying to you because he has low self esteem and wants to justify his existence as that crappy raid member who does bad dps yet refuses to heal. Yes, Templars used to be able to do 1k dps. Biting jabs got bugged/nerfed and we don't know when it will be fixed. And yes, it's a big deal when a class does 20% more dps than you. It might not be a big deal in our current casual, take anyone that does over 800 dps pug environment, but once harder content that isn't really puggable comes out being 20% worse than a DK means sitting on the bench 100% of the time on progression raids (I'm assuming your 0.2 was a coefficient as 1200 dk dps is about 20% better than 1k pre-nerf Templar dps... which, btw, was not sustainable btw beyond about 60 seconds)

And guilds that do not run FOTM class runs are just another way of saying guilds that don't perform to their potential and are super casual and generally terrible at progression. If you're fine with not clearing v12 content until v14 content is released, by all means, don't worry about being 20 or even 50% behind other classes. But if you want to be on the bleeding edge of progression and you're 20% behind, you better pray that your class brings something super special to the raid... something like sorc negate (which is why sorcs are still getting into runs even though they are currently about 20% behind dk's).

yelloweyedemon

Wargasmo wrote: »

"yelloweyedemon wrote: »

I've seen templars doing 1k dps. Also a friend of mine that plays temp told me that in his build, the lower the boss's health, the more damage he can do due to some skills, while DK's can't do that. So your point is that DK's are broken because they can do 0,2 more dps than you? Yes it might be easier to play, but all mmo's have braindead,easy,basic and advanced difficulty classes.

Same thing goes for raiding. Just find a guild that does not run FOTM class runs. In every MMO you'll find fotm exclusive runs. Those people will just switch to the next "OP" class in the next update, just because they only care for numbers to boost their e-peens.

First of all, you haven't seen templars doing 1k dps because the game's current addon situation doesnt support group meters. What you've seen is people lying about their dps in order to get into a trail group. Your friend either A) must have not played since craiglorn came out because they broke the skill you're talking about that used to allow Templars to do decent dps, or is lying to you because he has low self esteem and wants to justify his existence as that crappy raid member who does bad dps yet refuses to heal. Yes, Templars used to be able to do 1k dps. Biting jabs got bugged/nerfed and we don't know when it will be fixed. And yes, it's a big deal when a class does 20% more dps than you. It might not be a big deal in our current casual, take anyone that does over 800 dps pug environment, but once harder content that isn't really puggable comes out being 20% worse than a DK means sitting on the bench 100% of the time on progression raids (I'm assuming your 0.2 was a coefficient as 1200 dk dps is about 20% better than 1k pre-nerf Templar dps... which, btw, was not sustainable btw beyond about 60 seconds)

And guilds that do not run FOTM class runs are just another way of saying guilds that don't perform to their potential and are super casual and generally terrible at progression. If you're fine with not clearing v12 content until v14 content is released, by all means, don't worry about being 20 or even 50% behind other classes. But if you want to be on the bleeding edge of progression and you're 20% behind, you better pray that your class brings something super special to the raid... something like sorc negate (which is why sorcs are still getting into runs even though they are currently about 20% behind dk's).

"when new content is released"... So your main problem is that IF new content is released, IF it is hard enough to not be puggable, and IF DK has not been nerfed in the meantime (probably several updates), ..... cool...

Also good progression guilds do not need to stack fotm classes to beat end-game content. This is being done by n00bs who lack the skill to play what they like and go wherever the fotm train takes them to. - Oh, I just described the average MMO raiding guild nowdays.

DovahkiinWolf

Honestly I just wish it was easier to solo as a NB. I put 18 into Magic and Health and I only 13 in Stamina. I find it difficult as a VR 2 to fight more than two or 3 VR2 monsters at one time with out some planning and strategy to take them out. And bosses are rather difficult alone. Maybe I just built it wrong. Anyone know a great build for soloing as a NB?

Therium104

Wargasmo wrote: »

"yelloweyedemon wrote: »

I've seen templars doing 1k dps. Also a friend of mine that plays temp told me that in his build, the lower the boss's health, the more damage he can do due to some skills, while DK's can't do that. So your point is that DK's are broken because they can do 0,2 more dps than you? Yes it might be easier to play, but all mmo's have braindead,easy,basic and advanced difficulty classes.

Same thing goes for raiding. Just find a guild that does not run FOTM class runs. In every MMO you'll find fotm exclusive runs. Those people will just switch to the next "OP" class in the next update, just because they only care for numbers to boost their e-peens.

First of all, you haven't seen templars doing 1k dps because the game's current addon situation doesnt support group meters. What you've seen is people lying about their dps in order to get into a trail group. Your friend either A) must have not played since craiglorn came out because they broke the skill you're talking about that used to allow Templars to do decent dps, or is lying to you because he has low self esteem and wants to justify his existence as that crappy raid member who does bad dps yet refuses to heal. Yes, Templars used to be able to do 1k dps. Biting jabs got bugged/nerfed and we don't know when it will be fixed. And yes, it's a big deal when a class does 20% more dps than you. It might not be a big deal in our current casual, take anyone that does over 800 dps pug environment, but once harder content that isn't really puggable comes out being 20% worse than a DK means sitting on the bench 100% of the time on progression raids (I'm assuming your 0.2 was a coefficient as 1200 dk dps is about 20% better than 1k pre-nerf Templar dps... which, btw, was not sustainable btw beyond about 60 seconds)

And guilds that do not run FOTM class runs are just another way of saying guilds that don't perform to their potential and are super casual and generally terrible at progression. If you're fine with not clearing v12 content until v14 content is released, by all means, don't worry about being 20 or even 50% behind other classes. But if you want to be on the bleeding edge of progression and you're 20% behind, you better pray that your class brings something super special to the raid... something like sorc negate (which is why sorcs are still getting into runs even though they are currently about 20% behind dk's).

I am not following your logic. If Templars can heal better than DK's under all situations is it not reasonable to assume DKs should have more dps in most if not all situations. Like 20%. Isn't balance between the classes as relevant as different abilities? If the dps is the same would that not require the healing ability of dk's to be increased?

davidetombab16_ESO

Laranoye wrote: »

They should not have so much stuff require magika…. the way i see it:

DK and nightblade, abilities should mainly use stamina,

Templar and Sorc, abilities should mainly use magika.

Certain passives need to be fixed,

more magika generation for templar and sorc

more stam regen for DK and NB.

Abilities should scale better with the classes main attribute.

NOT magika for EVERY ability except weapons.

They already did this with some weapons, melee cost stamina, staff etc use magika…. why not use the same aspect for classes?

There I basically just fixed their game.

Anyone who disagrees is a Staff wielding DK who wants to continue to brake the game. I believe this is the fairest way to start balancing the game.

At least then people will stop comparing their "broken" class to a DK and therefore declaring their class broken.

soon!( probably next year when it comes out on console)

in fact eso on the pc is a beta for consoles and we are all fools who pay to play this ***

yelloweyedemon

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

Laranoye wrote: »

They should not have so much stuff require magika…. the way i see it:

DK and nightblade, abilities should mainly use stamina,

Templar and Sorc, abilities should mainly use magika.

Certain passives need to be fixed,

more magika generation for templar and sorc

more stam regen for DK and NB.

Abilities should scale better with the classes main attribute.

NOT magika for EVERY ability except weapons.

They already did this with some weapons, melee cost stamina, staff etc use magika…. why not use the same aspect for classes?

There I basically just fixed their game.

Anyone who disagrees is a Staff wielding DK who wants to continue to brake the game. I believe this is the fairest way to start balancing the game.

At least then people will stop comparing their "broken" class to a DK and therefore declaring their class broken.

soon!( probably next year when it comes out on console)

in fact eso on the pc is a beta for consoles and we are all fools who pay to play this ***

No, we play because we like the game. If you play something you hate, then you need help.