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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Should they remove vet ranks?
Spryt
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Lots of talk about vet ranks last few days. There are a few posts both for and against. But as there are so many polls I thought why not have one for this too...
I find vet ranks really hurt replayability with alts, breaks lore and immersion and feels pretty grindy and pointless. There is no reason whatsoever to make a alt on some other faction. Having to do all 3 factions on every single alt you do make is really no fun at all.
My suggestion would be to make entire world open up after end of main story. Set it all to level 50. Let people do quests and gather skillpoints and money but remove all XP. Make it optional. Make vet ranks into "dungeon" ranks much like pvp ranks work. Gain vet ranks by doing 4 and 12 man dungeons/trials. Get skill points and unlock custom gear. But leave max level pve/pvp/crafting at 50. Ranks do not increase stats but unlock some custom dungeon traits for crafting and maybe some cool titles.
Vote yes or no in the poll below and discuss what kind of alternative to vet ranks you want.
Edited by Spryt on May 28, 2014 9:06AM I find vet ranks really hurt replayability with alts, breaks lore and immersion and feels pretty grindy and pointless. There is no reason whatsoever to make a alt on some other faction. Having to do all 3 factions on every single alt you do make is really no fun at all.
My suggestion would be to make entire world open up after end of main story. Set it all to level 50. Let people do quests and gather skillpoints and money but remove all XP. Make it optional. Make vet ranks into "dungeon" ranks much like pvp ranks work. Gain vet ranks by doing 4 and 12 man dungeons/trials. Get skill points and unlock custom gear. But leave max level pve/pvp/crafting at 50. Ranks do not increase stats but unlock some custom dungeon traits for crafting and maybe some cool titles.
Vote yes or no in the poll below and discuss what kind of alternative to vet ranks you want.
Should they remove vet ranks? 72 votes
Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)
41%
30 votes
No leave it as it is now
50%
36 votes
I don't care
8%
6 votes
1
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david271749✭✭✭✭✭So many lost subscribers if they remove those. I'm purely speculating, but I think they plan on adding a lot more.0 -
smokes✭✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)third time posting this - sorry for spamming to those that have read it.
for the long term health of the game, zenimax need to roll back veteran ranks to VR2.
yep, that'll pee off a bunch of the playerbase that grinded their way to V12 already - however, all those rolled back would still have the gold, loot, achievements, skyshards and skillpoints to show for it.
rolling back gear/items might be more of an issue, but it's not impossible to do.
zenimax dun goofed - this is the only real way to fix it at this point and it needs fixing now, before it gets any worse.
roll veteran ranks back to a cap of VR2.
make craglorn level 50-VR2. (with the same XP requirement that was VR10-12)
make level 50 an actual level.
remove XP gain from the other factions quests altogether, but do not remove skillgains (questing through the other content should be an optional experience for gold, skill points, skyshards, ability levelling, etc - not mandatory as part of the grind to max level).
silver almanac mobs level 50, gold almanac mobs VR1 (or preferably scaled to player level, considering that more VR ranks will be added).
reset cyrodiil mobs to level 50.
give all players 5 days free playtime - including those who dropped subs. (to try and re-kindle userbase)
apologise profusely.
the benefits of doing this:
no mandatory grind to get into adventure zones.
other faction content that is optional from 50+.
cyrodiil pve content becomes optional VR levelling content.
pvp becomes more balanced - would only be offset by 2 VR levels and gear.
i also want to iterate that i am more than fine with the difficulty level of mobs, world bosses, delves, dolmens, dungeons and all that jazz - it's purely the VR levelling process that needs addressing, as it's currently a massive brick wall of grind and you'll be hard pushed to see anyone born in the 90's that's willing to push through it, without exploiting or finding a niche group willing to grind.
i'm VR4 at the minute and i am burnt out. i have quested my balls off and have resigned to the fact that unless i find a way to exploit, i'll be rolling multiple alts to 50 and waiting for changes to the veteran ranks. i picked up this game to get into the adventure zones, not to play the entire game through from 3 different angles before doing so.3 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No leave it as it is nowI don't really understand the issues with vet ranks, people say they're a grind but surely if they did level 50-60 cost the same experience and VR1-VR2 it would be the same grind with just more levels to earn.
No one needs to grind these levels as fast as they can (maybe PVP hardcores) just playing the games content and quests will earn you the levels in time, if you're not interested in the games content and quests I am sure you have more issues (like little content left) to complain about than a grind.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭No leave it as it is nowNo, but what ZoS should do is properly explain that Veteran Ranks in ESO are the EXACT SAME THING as tiered gear grinding in every single other MMO. The way ESO goes about it is much smarter than endless grinding of the same Experts/Raids for MONTHS until you get enough gear to move onto the next tier of raid. Unfortunately it's such a different approach than standard MMO's that the concept is completely lost on 75% of the population, they "jus dun geddit".1 -
Spryt✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)No one needs to grind these levels as fast as they can (maybe PVP hardcores) just playing the games content and quests will earn you the levels in time, if you're not interested in the games content and quests I am sure you have more issues (like little content left) to complain about than a grind.
Point is having to do same 3 factions evey time. I would like to try another class but having to do same 3 factions on that charcter too is really putting me off the idea. Much rather just do one faction and be done with it. Don't need to see the same story and quests x3 on each charcter.1 -
smokes✭✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)No, but what ZoS should do is properly explain that Veteran Ranks in ESO are the EXACT SAME THING as tiered gear grinding in every single other MMO. The way ESO goes about it is much smarter than endless grinding of the same Experts/Raids for MONTHS until you get enough gear to move onto the next tier of raid. Unfortunately it's such a different approach than standard MMO's that the concept is completely lost on 75% of the population, they "jus dun geddit".
i'm fine with the tiered levelling/gear system - i get it, i like it, i'm happy with it.
i'm really not fine with the lack of replayability on alts, or the need to finish all 3 factions main storylines in order to access craglorn and future adventure zones.
the veteran ranks and their future increases are fine - the grind to get into adventure zones is unnecessary bloat that has burnt out many of my friends and likely many more to come.
questing in the other factions should be optional, not mandatory. that is the main issue i see repeated across the forums. thus why i would suggest a rollback to VR2.Edited by smokes on May 28, 2014 9:38AM1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭No leave it as it is nowPoint is having to do same 3 factions evey time. I would like to try another class but having to do same 3 factions on that charcter too is really putting me off the idea. Much rather just do one faction and be done with it. Don't need to see the same story and quests x3 on each charcter.
So it's fine to grind out 90 levels in WoW doing the EXACT same quests where there isn't an easy way to just AOE "grind" your way up, but 50 levels in ESO, now that's absurd amiright?1 -
Spryt✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)Point is having to do same 3 factions evey time. I would like to try another class but having to do same 3 factions on that charcter too is really putting me off the idea. Much rather just do one faction and be done with it. Don't need to see the same story and quests x3 on each charcter.
So it's fine to grind out 90 levels in WoW doing the EXACT same quests where there isn't an easy way to just AOE "grind" your way up, but 50 levels in ESO, now that's absurd amiright?
Well in Wow if you go Horde you go Horde and do those quests. You don't go Horde and get to 90 and then go do Alliance too.
If they want to slow down leveling in ESO then just reduce xp in1-50 down so its same time as 1-vet 10.0 -
smokes✭✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)Point is having to do same 3 factions evey time. I would like to try another class but having to do same 3 factions on that charcter too is really putting me off the idea. Much rather just do one faction and be done with it. Don't need to see the same story and quests x3 on each charcter.
So it's fine to grind out 90 levels in WoW doing the EXACT same quests where there isn't an easy way to just AOE "grind" your way up, but 50 levels in ESO, now that's absurd amiright?
seeing as you are comparing it wow
it's actually like expecting the player to do loremaster of the alliance AND horde, before being able to do LFR.
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭No leave it as it is nowi'm fine with the tiered levelling/gear system - i get it, i like it, i'm happy with it.
i'm really not fine with the lack of replayability on alts, or the need to finish all 3 factions main storylines in order to access craglorn and future adventure zones.
the veteran ranks and their future increases are fine - the grind to get into adventure zones is unnecessary bloat that has burnt out many of my friends and likely many more to come.
questing in the other factions should be optional, not mandatory. that is the main issue i see repeated across the forums. thus why i would suggest a rollback to VR2.
There is nothing that forces you to complete the other 2 Faction zones, short of the desire for skill points. You can enter Craglorn within moments of hitting level 50 and if you have a few buddies with you can do a good amount of the content, even at VR1, unless they finally make Craglorn as intended, a zone for VR10's in a group of 4+. There were people that went from low VR (around 2-4) all the way to VR12 the first day, IN Craglorn.0 -
ElSlayer✭✭✭You know (or failed to evaluate) that your suggestion will never be implemented, yet you have started a new poll. Although I don't care much about it, it still annoying to see people posting their "genious" ideas like this one.0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭No leave it as it is now
seeing as you are comparing it wow
it's actually like expecting the player to do loremaster of the alliance AND horde, before being able to do LFR.
Except it isn't remotely, there is NOTHING that forces you to do the other Faction's zones. You can AOE grind your way all the way to VR12 in Craglorn from VR1 so your comparison to loremaster is moot. Vet Ranks are nothing more than tiered gear progression, that's it. You want to go and grind out experts and the same horrible 2-3 raids for 4 months to get enough gear to get to the next tier of progression then by all means there's plenty of MMO's that still do it that way. ZoS decided to change the concept of gear progression and sooo many people just can't wrap their head around it that it makes me laugh.0 -
smokes✭✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)Except it isn't remotely, there is NOTHING that forces you to do the other Faction's zones. You can AOE grind your way all the way to VR12 in Craglorn from VR1 so your comparison to loremaster is moot. Vet Ranks are nothing more than tiered gear progression, that's it. You want to go and grind out experts and the same horrible 2-3 raids for 4 months to get enough gear to get to the next tier of progression then by all means there's plenty of MMO's that still do it that way. ZoS decided to change the concept of gear progression and sooo many people just can't wrap their head around it that it makes me laugh.
because AoE grinding is how 90% of players want to level in an mmorpg...Edited by smokes on May 28, 2014 9:57AM0 -
Spryt✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)ZoS decided to change the concept of gear progression and sooo many people just can't wrap their head around it that it makes me laugh.
No they didn't decide to have a new concept of gear progression. People in beta complained about not being able to do all content on one character. So they added vet ranks.
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭No leave it as it is nowbecause AoE grinding is how 90% of players want to level in an mmorpg...
That's how MOST people are hitting VR12 as it stands right now, VERY few players are actually doing all quests for zone completions, etc. All you see in just about any zone is "LFM grinding this or that". This is on top of the grinding exploit in 2 expert dungeons I won't mention. You can spam 4 vet ranks in less than 2 hours doing those, which I haven't done because I'm actually PLAYING the game for the story itself, not worrying about if I hit VR10, 12, 100 anytime soon. Even still I'm VR6 without really "trying" to level, I just do so exploring all zones, doing all content/quests, etc.0 -
smokes✭✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)because AoE grinding is how 90% of players want to level in an mmorpg...
That's how MOST people are hitting VR12 as it stands right now, VERY few players are actually doing all quests for zone completions, etc. All you see in just about any zone is "LFM grinding this or that". This is on top of the grinding exploit in 2 expert dungeons I won't mention.
which kinda undermines the whole point of it being an elders scrolls game - no?0 -
Crisscross✭✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)I pretty much agree 100% with OP's suggestion. I do not want to grind or quest to level 150 in this game before I can start to really compete in PVP. Level 50 should be it and after that we should be able to start doing the endgame activity of our choice, not be forced to go through two more faction storylines, or to AOE grind until our eyeballs fall out.0
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Spryt✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)So what is the point of even having vet ranks if people just grind them in 2 hours? why not just remove them and let people into trials, 50+ dungons and pvp at 50?
Let people that enjoy alts and story do the story on alt on another faction as it was intended to be. Or if they really want on the same charcter at 50.
I think most people that aoe grind or fast click quests do not do it beacuse they enjoy it. But beacuse they "need" to do it to get into trials or pvp. And if you really do enjoy aoe grinding you can still do that at 50.0 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭Yes remove vet ranks (give alternative in post)I don't want to grind VR ranks. I would rather the game just continued with good and different stories set in the other zones.
Edited to add:
To be competitive in PvP you need to max VR. PvP seems fun from my experience of it. But I want to have fun getting to max VR. Neither grinding craglorn nor doing other story lines for *** hand-wavy reasons is fun.
If ESO stops being fun at 49 then people will leave. The more people leave the less chance of ESO remaining a sub game there is.
Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on May 28, 2014 10:42AM1