Was time wasted putting out Craglorn, when core game fixes were needed more?

Tendeep

Just curious to see what you all think, was the Craglorn experience worth all the trouble that still exists or was caused?

ThisOnePosts

No we really needed Craglorn, I am happy with how things were implemented.

Craglorn is a good thing imo. Once you hit VR10, it is a great place to quest and farm custom sets, materials, items to break down, etc..

It's also very populated and the most populated "late game" area I have seen yet. There are also many different ways to farm for items there which makes it less boring imo. They put this out there for end-game players overall, and I think it's a step in the right direction.

badmojo

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

How exactly can a team of artists fix bugs in the programming code?

Nox_Aeterna

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

I dont think craglorn was the issue on itself at all.

There were players that wanted it and , like many have said over the forums , zen probably got different teams for different areas of development.

The problem is , that brought to light that some teams are not managing to deliver.

If zen got any good sense after this happened , they will reorganize and actually check what each team needs.

fyendiarb16_ESO

I didn't vote since it is too hard to tell. If they have two groups, one for fixing stuff and a second for new content then it was time well spend (even though I have my doubts about some of the decisions). However if it is the same group of people having to do both, then yes I consider it time wasted/wrongly spend and a content patch released too early since there are quite a few issues to solve and sadly with new content it is unavoidable that there will be new issues to be fixed.

terence.caroneb17_ESO

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

1/ They should have fixed all that's been hurting the game before the patch
2/ It would have given them time to make a good content patch, not a patch with so many bugs, and even in the content, you don't get xp from some of the mobs, you got a full dungeon (kardala) with disabled bosses no xp or loot cause they did something then went back on it, anomalies have a system that encourages farming like animals/bots etc ...

The zone is beautiful, the dungeons are pretty nice (except the dwemer one which got a boss that doesn't move a finger and only ads attacking you), but its not finished content.

I was waiting for Craglorn hoping it will at the same time have the bug fixes we all waited for. Instead a huge load of bugs, and a new zone where people just farm the same diamonds over and over again. Sure, there are quests, but with all the graphic issues and broken mechanics, it's more a pain in the ass than anything for me.
Not to mention that they raised mobs level in VR Zones without knowing about it (How can you do that when you work on the same fixes for almost 2 months ?) and then said they rolled it back, but it didn't fix the problem for all mobs.

I hope they realize now how silly it is to promise new content every 4-6 weeks, when your basic game mechanics are, for a big part, bugged: skills not working in combat, nightblades having passives not working, then on top of it the decision to nerf templars only melee dps ability, and group system with no leader after a few seconds of game, log in issues, crashes, loading screen popping out of nowhere (happened to me and some other people pretty often) etc ...

I really, REALLY hope the next official blog post from one of the directors at Zenimax Online will be there soon and adress the state of the game and how they're planning on fixing things before the next content patch, cause I'm not overreacting when I say Craglorn is the worst publicity they've ever done for the game and some people are already leaving just because of this patch.

TicToc

No we really needed Craglorn, I am happy with how things were implemented.

Craglorn had to be released. It was promised a long time ago, and many people raced to level specifically to be able to play the Craglorn stuff. It was something that they didn't have the option to back out on.

Going forward, yes, they should focus on shoring up the core game before adding any new content, especially fluff content.

JD2013

No we really needed Craglorn, I am happy with how things were implemented.

You do understand (As it has been said many times on here) that the guys working on new content and the bug fixers are two different teams, right?

Celurian

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

All of the People voted "NO" are obvioesly Dragonknights or Sorcerer.

JD2013

No we really needed Craglorn, I am happy with how things were implemented.

Celurian wrote: »

All of the People voted "NO" are obvioesly Dragonknights or Nightblades.

Nope, Sorcerer.

Catflinger

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

I will respond by quoting this guy:

JD2013 wrote: »

You do understand (As it has been said many times on here) that the guys working on new content and the bug fixers are two different teams, right?

because he is correct. I voted the way I did because this is a silly poll.

rattbagrwb17_ESO

No we really needed Craglorn, I am happy with how things were implemented.

Celurian wrote: »

All of the People voted "NO" are obvioesly Dragonknights or Nightblades.

Not at all, the people voting No are the ones that understand the new content team is separate from those who fix bugs. Meaning new content has nothing to do with bug fixing, making this thread and it's poll invalid.

Maleficus

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

You need the end game content, people are already bitching about there not being any.. It was smart and maybe some things suffered as a result. There is no doubt that some things have not gone well for ZOS but having a content patch ready to go for end game shortly after launch was a good move... SWTOR had no end game ready and suffered greatly for it.

I have no doubt that given time this game will become what most of us want it to be and more... I for one think that ZOS has a done a great job mopping up the mess that the launch turned out to be for them, the community backlash was harsh and unforgiving in many cases. Those of us that continue to stick with ZOS through there problems and continue to provide useful feedback will find ourselves playing the game we all wanted......

Drasn

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

Different teams working on different things.

Also, Zeni promised Craglorn/first content update around 4-6 weeks after launch. If they hadn't of put it out, the same people whining about it getting released would be here whining about how they were lied to. (because people like to complain)

Also, every poll really needs to have an automatic option added to it:
-This poll is pointless and I just wanted to feel like people felt similar to me, that's why all the options I included are biased in someway to my opinion, and the ones that are against my opinion are so far off base that only fanboys would choose them.

Celurian

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

JD2013 wrote: »

Celurian wrote: »

All of the People voted "NO" are obvioesly Dragonknights or Nightblades.

Nope, Sorcerer.

Ups. Changed it.
To be honest, i don't care how Zen got 023947 7453 Teams to fix a different issue. After so many people allready stopped playing this game and the price dropped down to 20€ (from 60 after 2 months) maybe its time to listen to the community or re-think the way things get fixed. It's obviosly the wrong way.

No one is crying (atleast i don't!) about a few Bugs which getting solved from time to time. I'm crying about more and more bugs comming in. 1 Disapears, 2 there again. And now i havent played much since craglorn came out because its impossible to solo PvE without stress myself the hell out of me.
Basically even in craglorn we where just abusing monster respawns to level up fast since the whole craglorn map is freaking annoying. (the trials are very fun tho!)

HandofBane

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

I play a veteran level Nightblade, focused in Siphoning/Shadow, without a bow or light armor. What do you think?

Korah_Eaglecry

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

Craglorn could of waited another month or so. While some people will skip, dance and rejoice to its release. They fail to realize that what seems like good policy by Zenimax. Is actually rather immature and knee-jerk reacting to the games obvious flaws. This has corporate written all over it.

Understandably there is a need to push end game content. But Craglorn isnt even technically endgame since theres still more VR levels coming with future content. And the first few months should ALWAYS be reserved for squashing as many bugs as possible before dropping significant sized content that will overlap the older content.

This was nothing more then a 'Hey we might be in trouble if we dont release something quick' type of thing. Theres been hardly any fixes that were necessary.

Reykice

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

Even if they send their artists as GM`s to ban bots and its still fine... they need to take control of this, the economy is ruined now but the real problem is every new player will see flying bots...

As i said in another thread when a buddy came to see the game and saw a bot chain + i explained there are bots all over the place he went from "cool game" to "yea i`ll never get this" in like 2 minutes....

They did a lot of small nice improvements like fixing Toothmaul group challenge, changing Brakenleaf`s voice from teenager to more "ancient tree" like + other changes helping immersion BUT they also did a lot of mistakes and really nobody will be immersed in a game with flying bots/speed hacking bots or just plain bots all over the place.

i`m willing to bet that the nr. 1 mood killer is seeing a bot taking the node you are walking towards or stuff like that...

EDIT: The game is now selling for 18EUR... it was 35ish at launch. This by itself says a lot about how well they did.

Lalai

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

No because it was promised prior to the launch of the game, so players were expecting it. Had they not delivered several people would be complaining that we were promised an update every 4-6 weeks and they failed to deliver. In fact, there were some threads on this very forum that were complaining Craglorn hadn't released yet when it was still only available on the Private Test Server. This is one of those damned if they do, damned if they don't things. Either way the playerbase is going to react badly.

Also, they've already stated in Q and A sessions on reddit that there are separate development teams for fixing bugs versus creating content.

Falmer

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

Craglorn is a waste for me simply because its veteran only content.

That said... there IS NO such thing as focusing. Different teams do different things. The animators and content producers don't need to sit around and twiddle their thumbs while the programmers are ironing out bugs.

Think of where ever it is you might work.... does the whole place come to a standstill if one small department is backed up with extra work?

Anvos

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

Honestly don't care as I'm not Vet 10 yet and still doing other veteran zones.

Mablung

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

It really doesn't matter to the paying customer that there are multiple teams working on the game. I think most understand that. It is what the paying customer perceives that should be most important to the company. In this case it appears that they are catering to an invisible crowd of end gamers.

People have rushed to get to end game PvE content only to come here and complain about how lackluster the content is. Players are still rushing to get to the highest rank because that is what trained monkeys do in MMOs (and then come here to complain about end game content).

My belief is that customer retention (dollars) is more important than appeasing any sense of internal or external politics and we should have seen more fixes and balances in place before the marketing and release of Craglorn.

The perception is Zenimax does not care about the paying customer. They are going to put out what they want to put out, how they want, when they want. This perceived attitude is what destroys games and sends them to the F2P graveyard.

Perception is everything.

Mud_Puppy

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

Landslide yo.

david271749

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

This doesn't really to be a poll. It's an obvious yes, if you look at other threads on the forum.

TicToc

No we really needed Craglorn, I am happy with how things were implemented.

Mablung wrote: »

It really doesn't matter to the paying customer that there are multiple teams working on the game. I think most understand that. It is what the paying customer perceives that should be most important to the company. In this case it appears that they are catering to an invisible crowd of end gamers.

People have rushed to get to end game PvE content only to come here and complain about how lackluster the content is. Players are still rushing to get to the highest rank because that is what trained monkeys do in MMOs (and then come here to complain about end game content).

My belief is that customer retention (dollars) is more important than appeasing any sense of internal or external politics and we should have seen more fixes and balances in place before the marketing and release of Craglorn.

The perception is Zenimax does not care about the paying customer. They are going to put out what they want to put out, how they want, when they want. This perceived attitude is what destroys games and sends them to the F2P graveyard.

Perception is everything.

If the paying customer wants to remain ignorant that is their business, but if you have different teams working on different things, perceptions is irrelevant, especially if said paid customers are told their are different teams working on them. Were they supposed to just sit on the content and not release because certain people cannot grasp simple concepts?

"Invisible crowd of endgamers"? i don't even know what that means. Endgamers are a big part of every MMO, and despite what your comments seem to suggest, they are paying customers too.

Ignoring your ignorant insults for the moment, people race to the highest rank because for many people the end-game content is what is most important. People enjoy raiding and PvP. That does not make them worse customers than you.

Craglorn was initially supposed to be in at release, but didn't make the cutoff. It was, however, promised that it would be released about a month after launch. They weren't marketing Craglorn, they were delivering on their promise, a promise made to their "paying customers". I'm not sure how keeping a promise shows that you don't care.

Agreed, fixes should be made before future content is added, but Craglorn was already a guaranteed addition that had been in the works for a very long time.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

Some people were vr10 and full legendary and bored. The game needs to cater to the PvE community since they are a big chunk of the player base and PvE players tend to leave when their is no new content.

idk

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

I am assuming that the person who started this thread has not seen ESOs comments concerning the teams working on content are separate teams than those working on the numerous fixes the game needs. This is fairly normal.

Also, considering that most of the work on Craglorn was done beforehand, they merely finished the work they started on, though the also added new bugs to the game while trying to fix some of the existing ones.

terence.caroneb17_ESO

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

rattbagrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Celurian wrote: »

All of the People voted "NO" are obvioesly Dragonknights or Nightblades.

Not at all, the people voting No are the ones that understand the new content team is separate from those who fix bugs. Meaning new content has nothing to do with bug fixing, making this thread and it's poll invalid.

If those two aren't working together at all, there's no reason why Bug Fixes have been stuck to the Craglorn patch for so long. Then we get the Craglorn patch which has more bugs, graphical issues and inconsiderate changes (not acknowledged in the patch notes for some I may say) than any of the previous ones.

Maybe they lack money to have more people fixing the game, I mean, it's not like we bought a triple A MMO from a huge franchise popular all over the world and paid a subscription. Oh wait ...

Shaun98ca2

I do not agree with either 1 nor 2, but shall respond with my thoughts.

Falmer wrote: »

Craglorn is a waste for me simply because its veteran only content.

That said... there IS NO such thing as focusing. Different teams do different things. The animators and content producers don't need to sit around and twiddle their thumbs while the programmers are ironing out bugs.

Think of where ever it is you might work.... does the whole place come to a standstill if one small department is backed up with extra work?

When he works at Burger King the answer is YES absolutely LOL

Aballister

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

imo, Should have fixed the rest of the issues, esp as given the number of VR12 now running around it only delivered a couple of days worth of content, but screwed up the rest of the VR zones for 24h.

WilliamTee

Yes, they should have focused on Class balance, Bots, PvP, Bugs, Gold Sink, etc

Truth be told, even Craglorn was released too early and has its share of bugs and bugged out quests.

I understand they needed an end-game out as too many players had reached v10 and were disappearing... but too much of this game has troubles and increasing the size of the game only increases the troubles.