You guys can't be serious

VlVEC

Craglorn was specifically advertised from Day 1 that it'd be group zones for 4-12 people. How are any of you honestly surprised that it requires 4-12 player groups to really make progress? It's not meant for you to solo with a meodicre build.

fyendiarb16_ESO

If I wanted to play a game that forces me to group up to get to max level I would not be playing this game. The end game/group content focus of Zenimax is really turning me away from this game. Adding new group content? Fine, but the added 2 VR ranks is BS.

I still love the game, but it is getting harder and harder to ignore the problems I am having with the direction they seem (emphasis on "seem") to have chosen.

Saerydoth

I think of Craglorn the way I do heroic dungeons and raids in games like WOW (well, before WOW made heroic dungeons a joke). A large area where you can do stuff as a group. It's not meant to be a solo area.

VlVEC

@fyendiarb16_ESO‌ One again... How is this a surprise to you? Craglorn was announced a GROUP CONTENT. Are you just that unhappy?

fyendiarb16_ESO

@VIVEC The group content, as I said, I am fine with. Combining it with a level upgrade I am not. If this was purely a pve game I would not mind a bit as long as I can still reach VR12 without it, but since I also like to pvp sometimes and like to take it slow, it becomes a different matter entirely.

edit: not surprised btw since as you said it was announced from the very beginning how it would be. It's just that I am now feeling the effect in pvp and am disgusted with the result.

Turelus

I think the forced lock that quests can only be handed in in a group of four goes against the nature of the Elder Scrolls part of the MMO and if a single player/smaller group has the skill to finish the normal quests than then they really should be rewarded for it.

Otherwise the instanced group content for twelve players is fine and should be a part of the game. You can't go into an MMO game and expect to be able to solo all the content in the game.

morashtakb16_ESO

The oddest part of all this is that normally there is a level cap pause wherein players are given time to; catch up to the fellow players at max level, collect and itemize gear for upcoming raids, complete achievements, level up non-combat skills, try different builds, pvp, and complete end level dungeons and raids.

With the ever increasing level cap (or is it level creep?) there is no time to do any of that. What we are left with is a seemingly endless level grind which now includes having to group up in a PvE zerg.
It's weird.

Nox_Aeterna

VlVEC wrote: »

@fyendiarb16_ESO‌ One again... How is this a surprise to you? Craglorn was announced a GROUP CONTENT. Are you just that unhappy?

So what?

The problem is that zen forces player to group to get lvls , this is a huge issue in any RPG since players usually want to cap the lvls.

Currently , you either grind , group in craglorn or play pvp.

Or ofc you are a DK and you solo craglorn :P.

It is not a matter of surprise , it is a matter of players getting to the point they are required to group and refusing to do so to progress their lvls. Just because they told you first , does not mean players wont get pissed over it.

fyendiarb16_ESO

morashtakb16_ESO wrote: »

The oddest part of all this is that normally there is a level cap pause wherein players are given time to; catch up to the fellow players at max level, collect and itemize gear for upcoming raids, complete achievements, level up non-combat skills, try different builds, pvp, and complete end level dungeons and raids.

With the ever increasing level cap (or is it level creep?) there is no time to do any of that. What we are left with is a seemingly endless level grind which now includes having to group up in a PvE zerg.
It's weird.

Very well put.

VlVEC

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is that zen forces player to group to get lvls , this is a huge issue in any RPG since players usually want to cap the lvls.

Good thing you're playing a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

fyendiarb16_ESO

VlVEC wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is that zen forces player to group to get lvls , this is a huge issue in any RPG since players usually want to cap the lvls.

Good thing you're playing a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

Nothing is more massively multiplayer than real life, but I can still be social and active without being forced in a group. MMO's are more than grouping games, forced grouping is never a good option if you want to keep a good amount of active subs.

Turelus

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

Nothing is more massively multiplayer than real life, but I can still be social and active without being forced in a group. MMO's are more than grouping games, forced grouping is never a good option if you want to keep a good amount of active subs.

You're saying everything in life can be achieved without ever working with other people in a team.
Forced grouping is in every MMO out there, WoW has 6mil subs after how many years and I am pretty sure you can't solo the end game or PVP there.

Edit* End game = End game raids.

Nox_Aeterna

VlVEC wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is that zen forces player to group to get lvls , this is a huge issue in any RPG since players usually want to cap the lvls.

Good thing you're playing a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

MMO does NOT mean you need to group.

It just means there are other players in there with you. I sometimes talk to players in my guild about totally random things , sometimes i trade with others...

I interact with other players , that is what a MMO offers me.

That does not mean i want or will group with them to lvl and progress in the game at all.

Then again , im not agaisnt those that want to do it. I just think zen fails to realise they need to offer both groups the option , not try to sometimes force people to solo and other times force them to group up on the main path to lvl and so on.

fyendiarb16_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

Nothing is more massively multiplayer than real life, but I can still be social and active without being forced in a group. MMO's are more than grouping games, forced grouping is never a good option if you want to keep a good amount of active subs.

You're saying everything in life can be achieved without ever working with other people in a team.
Forced grouping is in every MMO out there, WoW has 6mil subs after how many years and I am pretty sure you can't solo the end game or PVP there.

Edit* End game = End game raids.

Sorry for the confusion, I do not expect any mmo to give access to all content to solo players like myself that only group up every now and then. I was referring to the leveling. Forced grouping to be able to level up is a bad idea and drives people away, even when there are harder (read more tedious) ways like grinding to get the ranks as well.

Every mmo needs group content, just as much as they need solo content. Putting either forward as THE way to go to get max lvl though is never a good idea.

In regards to my comparison to real life; I was referring to the multiplayer comment he made. Just because it is multiplayer does not mean you need to group up. Multiplayer just means many other players are in the same area's as you are, you can socialize with them if you want, but you are not forced to at all times...which his standard remark usually means.

Turelus

@fyendiarb16_ESO then go back to the first post I made in the thread.

VlVEC

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

VlVEC wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is that zen forces player to group to get lvls , this is a huge issue in any RPG since players usually want to cap the lvls.

Good thing you're playing a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

Nothing is more massively multiplayer than real life, but I can still be social and active without being forced in a group. MMO's are more than grouping games, forced grouping is never a good option if you want to keep a good amount of active subs.

Something tells me you don't know much about real life.

fyendiarb16_ESO

@Turelus I fully agree with that first post you made.

fyendiarb16_ESO

@VIVEC I know enough to know that the simple fact that something has more than one person in it does not mean you are forced to team up with them.

This is a fact both in MMO's and real life. Massively multiplayer means nothing more than a massive amount of other persons around to do stuff with if you so desire. It is not an excuse for forced grouping.

Btw I do not consider group dungeons and raids to be forced grouping unless they give those that do a big advantage over those that don't. In pve that is fine, in pvp it is not.

JosephChip

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

VlVEC wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is that zen forces player to group to get lvls , this is a huge issue in any RPG since players usually want to cap the lvls.

Good thing you're playing a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

Nothing is more massively multiplayer than real life, but I can still be social and active without being forced in a group. MMO's are more than grouping games, forced grouping is never a good option if you want to keep a good amount of active subs.

Don't be ridiculous. It's the only group oriented area. Do you pretend that everything in the game should be solo-able? This game is already 90% singleplayer content that you can enjoy whenever you want. Do you want to take away the little group content there is from people who like it? If you don't like group content, don't experience it. Those 2 levels they added are so easy to cover that people were VR12 the not even 24 hours later. [Snip].

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

fyendiarb16_ESO

@JosephChip‌ Thanks for calling me a whiner, now please read the rest of my posts and find out that I have nothing against group content as long as it does not give them a big advantage over other players in pvp. Those people you mention that get to VR12 so fast are grouped aoe grinders, I have nothing against them, but I find that playstyle too boring to even consider doing.

Normal leveling will not get you 2 veteran ranks within 24 hours, not even close.

I have for example about 5 days /played on my lvl 30 DK, how long do you think it will take people like me to get from VR10 to VR12?

If they give pre-VR a bigger buff in Cyrodiil (of course not so big that they are as strong as VR players, but not cannon fodder either) then there would not be as much of a problem as there is now. For me at least.

If you consider that whining, well.. I am fine with that.

JosephChip

Wrong. I played solo, no grinding, completed the normal 3/4 men group quests and I am already VR12 after some hours in Cyrodiil (leveled up with player kills). Your whole premise is flawed. It took me 3/4 days. It's really that easy.
p.s. I should also mention that I didn't even completed all the VR areas. Plenty of solo content there for leveling up. [Snip]. Having an objective to work for is good.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

fyendiarb16_ESO

JosephChip wrote: »

Wrong. I played solo, no grinding, completed the normal 3/4 men group quests and I am already VR12 after some hours in Cyrodiil (leveled up with player kills). Your whole premise is flawed. It took me 3/4 days. It's really that easy.
p.s. I should also mention that I didn't even completed all the VR areas. Plenty of solo content there for leveling up. [Snip]. Having an objective to work for is good.

If you are indeed correct that leveling from VR10 to VR12 is much faster than getting the first 30 levels, then I stand corrected. Everyone else must be lying that VR ranks are so hard to get then. Now please stop the name calling, there is no reason for it.

JosephChip

I don't think name calling means what you think it means.
That aside, VR experience gain was increased with the expansion.

fyendiarb16_ESO

JosephChip wrote: »

I don't think name calling means what you think it means.
That aside, VR experience gain was increased with the expansion.

English is not my main language so perhaps you are correct and I did use the phrase "name calling" wrong. But...

"Boy you are an entitled little whiner, aren't you."
and
"Stop being a child and pretending to have level cap handed to you on a silver platter."

... was at the very least uncalled for.

When someone stands in front of me in real life he can use pretty nasty words against me in the heat of an argument and not much will happen, but when they decide to talk down to me they only do it once if wise, twice if not.

However, enough of that. I hope you are right and it will be easy enough to get to VR12 and does not require group content or massive grinding. With easy I mean doable solo through questing, even if it would take weeks for someone who takes his time like I tend to do. The content may be very challenging as well, I like that as long as it is doable. A few ingame deaths never killed me before.

j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Just because they told you first , does not mean players wont get pissed over it.

I understand completely, and when your parents told you not to dive into the empty pool and you did anyway, it was their fault you got a broken neck... Makes sense, lets all go join a game that advertises it is going to require things we don't wont to do, and then complain and try to get them to change their game to suit our individual desires...

fyrefenix

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

If I wanted to play a game that forces me to group up to get to max level I would not be playing this game. The end game/group content focus of Zenimax is really turning me away from this game. Adding new group content? Fine, but the added 2 VR ranks is BS.

I still love the game, but it is getting harder and harder to ignore the problems I am having with the direction they seem (emphasis on "seem") to have chosen.

yeah why should anybody want group content or goals. i mean after all its just an MMO!

ps. i hope bethesda releases a new single player rpg again i've lost count how many times i played through morrowind oblivion and skyrim hehe but still classics in my book and always will be

Gisgo

You dont need to group to get to VR12, it just makes it faster.
I was getting good xp chaining anomalies without being in a group, and there is Cyrodiil too.

fyrefenix

Gisgo wrote: »

You dont need to group to get to VR12, it just makes it faster.
I was getting good xp chaining anomalies without being in a group, and there is Cyrodiil too.

one customer service rep said i need a group one customer service rep said i didn't.

i say play a templar tank and decide for yourself what you need. me i need a miracle

fyendiarb16_ESO

@fyrefenix‌ I have nothing against group content, every mmo needs it. I have something against forced grouping, but as @Gisgo‌ and others have explained there really is no forced grouping here as I thought there was as a result of how people were talking about it.

From what I have read in this topic it is just extra group content and nothing more, Just like raid content that I will never see and have no problem with as long as they are not vital parts of the story and do not give a big benefit over other players in pvp.

The 2 extra veteran ranks I still think has come way too early on though, but that is another matter.

So basically this topic slowly seems to have changed my mind in regards to Craglorn (unless it is a continuation of the storyline which would mean forced grouping after all). I will most likely never see any of it though since I mainly solo, but that is my choice.

Gisgo

fyrefenix wrote: »

i say play a templar tank and decide for yourself what you need. me i need a miracle

Dude im a stamina NB, you dont have it harder.
I say just try for yourself and see how it works instead of asking the customer service.
WTF do they know? I would be surprised if they play the game at all.

fyrefenix

nightblades can stealth and snipe. sure wish i could go invisable oh thats right i can heal for less then the damage im taking which defeats healing almost entirely