Spirit Siphon is the new Elemental Drain. Combined with Furnace Set is OP

monkeymystic

Before the patch, you could gain infinite magicka from Elemental Drain, using rapid abilities, DoTs, Toggles and so on.
Everything would trigger magicka back on each tick.

Zenimax fixed Elemental Drain (Destro staff) so this no longer was possible in 1.1.

Now everyone just use Spirit Siphon (Resto staff) instead, for the exact same thing.[/b]

The Furnace Set currently gives back 10% of total magicka every 5 second when struck ! This together with Spirit Siphon is too much.

Furnace Set needs to be tuned (it is very overpowered now) and
Siphon Spirit needs to be tuned the same way Elemental Drain was in 1.1 patch, so it no longer triggers magicka/health back on Toggle abilities.

The main reason for unlimited magicka is because of the Furnace set, and also combined with the following:
The reason you see videos of players soloing trash in Craglorn is because of Furnace Set + Siphon Spirit gives infinite magicka together with Inferno and Cinder, which doesn't do much damage, but it ticks often = magicka back from Spirit Siphon often = spam whatever you want without thinking of magicka resources.

This is how they did it before, using Elemental drain + Inferno + Cinder with resto/destro..
After nerf they can do the exact same thing with Spirit Siphon and same resto/destro build


And if you see videos of someone soloing anything, or doing something special. Please check what abilities he actually uses first, and use your brain before automatically whining "nerfnerf" if it has nothing to do with a class ability, but the Spirit Siphon ability making it all possible.


Don't you think it's a bit weird that every DK vid you see doing this "amazing" stuff ALWAYS have either Destro staff or Resto staff..?
And also always happen to stack light armor Set bonuses like "Furnace Set" and so on?

Have you ever seen a Dual-wield DK do something this amazing?

They used Elemental Drain before, and now they DEPEND on Spirit Siphon and set bonuses like Furnace set for the same thing.

zeuseason

Nerf the game into the ground of no possible fun anymore. It's cool. Bots will rule.

monkeymystic

There is just far too many ignorant people who doesn't see what the problem really is.

They see a player depend on 1 ability (Spirit Siphon, resto staff ability) to make it work, and they think the class is the problem.
The real problem is Spirit Siphon giving INFINITE magicka, the same way Elemental Drain was OP before they fixed it!

Regoras

LOL, decided to take this rant from the previous thread and make it a post all it's own eh?

monkeymystic

mmosean_ESO wrote: »

LOL, decided to take this rant from the previous thread and make it a post all it's own eh?

No, this is so the devs/blind players like yourself can see what is making crazy stuff possible with infinite magicka, thanks to Spirit Siphon.

This is something we have been aware of a while now, since Elemental Drain made it possible before. It was NOT possible WITHOUT Elemental Drain.

Then players started using Spirit Siphon, because it triggers from Inferno and cinder ticks = infinite magicka all over again like with elemental drain before they fixed it.

Gaudrath

You know what else gives infinite magicka? Resto heavy attack. NERF IT! NERF EVERYTHING!

monkeymystic

Gaudrath wrote: »

You know what else gives infinite magicka? Resto heavy attack. NERF IT! NERF EVERYTHING!

No, it doesn't.
10% for a long heavy channel is not even comparable to Spirit Siphon.

Spirit Siphon gives you infinite magicka WITHOUT channeling anything!

With Spirit Siphon you just cast it on the target, pop cinder + inferno or any other toggle/rapid attack = infinite magicka from Spirit Siphon for 20 seconds.

This is why they nerfed/fixed Elemental Drain, and they should fix Spirit Siphon too.

Gaudrath

Orly? Ok, let's see. Assuming information available on the net is relatively accurate, Spirit Siphon gives you 1% of your magicka per tick/attack. Which means you need to have ten DoT ticks or attacks to get to the same level of one heavy resto staff attack.

A heavy resto staff attack takes 2 seconds to complete.
DoTs tick approx. every second. So for 10% you need 9 seconds of a single DoT ticking away, or four seconds for two separate DoTs.

Heavy resto attack does not consume any resources. DoT skills do. So to get the full 10% back you need a lot longer than those 9 or 4 seconds.

Let's take a closer look. Let's say Inferno costs 50 magicka per second when toggled. Assuming you have your magicka softcapped, for the sake of the argument, at 2000. 1% of that is 20 magicka per tick of Inferno. Which means you are losing 30 magicka per second instead of 50. Sounds infinite to you?

How about Cinder Storm? Esohead states it costs 476 magicka for a 15 second DoT at lvl 50. Let's make that 20 second DoT, same duration as Siphon Spirit, meaning you will get 20% of your magicka back after 20 seconds (using resto heavy you could have 100% of your magicka back during that time). At 2000 magicka, that is 20x20 = 400 magicka gain. So you are 76 magicka in the red from casting Cinder Storm in the first place. Does that sound infinite to you?

Yes, you can reduce spell cost. Not so much that you turn a minor magicka gain effect into an uber fountain of power. At best you'd be running even or at a gain so slow it wouldn't matter.

monkeymystic

Gaudrath wrote: »

Orly? Ok, let's see. Assuming information available on the net is relatively accurate, Spirit Siphon gives you 1% of your magicka per tick/attack. Which means you need to have ten DoT ticks or attacks to get to the same level of one heavy resto staff attack.

A heavy resto staff attack takes 2 seconds to complete.
DoTs tick approx. every second. So for 10% you need 9 seconds of a single DoT ticking away, or four seconds for two separate DoTs.

Heavy resto attack does not consume any resources. DoT skills do. So to get the full 10% back you need a lot longer than those 9 or 4 seconds.

Let's take a closer look. Let's say Inferno costs 50 magicka per second when toggled. Assuming you have your magicka softcapped, for the sake of the argument, at 2000. 1% of that is 20 magicka per tick of Inferno. Which means you are losing 30 magicka per second instead of 50. Sounds infinite to you?

How about Cinder Storm? Esohead states it costs 476 magicka for a 15 second DoT at lvl 50. Let's make that 20 second DoT, same duration as Siphon Spirit, meaning you will get 20% of your magicka back after 20 seconds (using resto heavy you could have 100% of your magicka back during that time). At 2000 magicka, that is 20x20 = 400 magicka gain. So you are 76 magicka in the red from casting Cinder Storm in the first place. Does that sound infinite to you?

Yes, you can reduce spell cost. Not so much that you turn a minor magicka gain effect into an uber fountain of power. At best you'd be running even or at a gain so slow it wouldn't matter.

Everyone that uses this build, also uses Light armor + cost reduction passives. It's funny how you failed to "mention" this more.
You're telling me you are using 7/7 heavy armor? hahaha!

Cinder storm costs what again, 280ish magicka with magicka reduction?
All your math gets kinda pointless then.

Now imagine 5 or 6 "DoT's" hitting every second, your autoattacks also gaining magicka and together with 7/7 light armor passives.
Because that is the problem now, 6-7% magicka back every SECOND from Siphon Spirit alone!

Gaudrath

And you forgot to factor in the cost of those 5 or 6 DoTs. Also, with 280 magicka cost of Cinder Storm, you end up in the plus... after 15 seconds. I assume you do nothing but autoattack during that time?

By the way, I know of a way to solo Craglorn trash mobs using just one skill and be untouchable. NERF NERF NERF!

monkeymystic

Gaudrath wrote: »

And you forgot to factor in the cost of those 5 or 6 DoTs. Also, with 280 magicka cost of Cinder Storm, you end up in the plus... after 15 seconds. I assume you do nothing but autoattack during that time?

By the way, I know of a way to solo Craglorn trash mobs using just one skill and be untouchable. NERF NERF NERF!

With a normal VR 12 magicka pool of 2000-2100 and 7/7 light armor?
You kidding? Are you even VR ranked yet?

You can also use warlock jewelry sets to make it even easier, or combine it with other set bonuses.

Magicka isn't an issue with Spirit Siphon, and you NEVER run completely out.
That's why it's a problem. Set bonuses + Spirit Siphon = Unlimited magicka.

Spirit Siphon is just Elemental Drain before 1.1 nerf all over again.

Erock25

If you really think it is Siphon Spirit and not Corrosive Armor + Battle Roar which makes those DK videos possible, you are more clueless than your writing style implies.

NordJitsu

First of all, Elemental Drain is useless now. It adds almost nothing to your DPS and now the magicka return is crap. Throw the ability away and give us something useful instead (like a Destruction spell, since we don't have any in the Destruction line. Really want an Elemental Bolt type ability.)

Second, the random bold all over the place makes your posts incredibly annoying.

backbernur1_ESO

Whats funny is we already have infinite magicka gain. its called MAGICKA RECOVERY. its always there your just speaking of a return of greater proportion but how often do you use other skills compared to auto attacking during this. I use other skills alot between my 2 swaps and i still have my magicka below its max with the regen so i think you just have issue of never running out since not using magicka for other things.

Cry for the point of Crying in Forums!!!

Gaudrath

Yes. Craglorn. One skill. And you end up with 90%-100% magicka too.

By the way, you do realize that in order to make Spirit Siphon work, you have to juggle quite a few skills, their durations, proper rotations... you can't just spam it. If you spam one dot out of order, there you go, wasting magicka and your fountain of power is suddenly a lot smaller.

And that isn't even taking into consideration your heals.

So if people can juggle 5-6 skills, time them perfectly and use that to keep themselves topped up, while attacking and healing - I say let them have their unlimited magicka. It's a way to punish spammers and I'm all for that.

TheGrimaceOR

guys dont you see that THIS is in bold and important

aeroch

Erock25 wrote: »

If you really think it is Siphon Spirit and not Corrosive Armor + Battle Roar which makes those DK videos possible, you are more clueless than your writing style implies.

You'd OOM on smaller packs before you built enough Ulti to Corrosive Armor and keep that gravy train rolling. It's a combination of both

edit: then again I'm not running Magicka Furnace or more than 2 pieces of Light Armor, so maybe you wouldn't run OOM. Idk

monkeymystic

backbernur1_ESO wrote: »

Whats funny is we already have infinite magicka gain. its called MAGICKA RECOVERY. its always there your just speaking of a return of greater proportion but how often do you use other skills compared to auto attacking during this. I use other skills alot between my 2 swaps and i still have my magicka below its max with the regen so i think you just have issue of never running out since not using magicka for other things.

Cry for the point of Crying in Forums!!!

You probably play a Sorceror, which does have an overpowered amount of magicka recovery yes. Of course magicka isn't a problem if you play a sorceror, you got this on a silver platter along with escape bolt and crystal shards.

DKs and Templars don't have anywhere near the same magicka recovery as sorcerors however.

egosumacunnus

Obviously they should fix this, but i don't see the harm in it if they are soloing instanced content and if it works in pvp it will still die to an organised group if not just weight of numbers.

monkeymystic

Gaudrath wrote: »

Yes. Craglorn. One skill. And you end up with 90%-100% magicka too.

By the way, you do realize that in order to make Spirit Siphon work, you have to juggle quite a few skills, their durations, proper rotations... you can't just spam it. If you spam one dot out of order, there you go, wasting magicka and your fountain of power is suddenly a lot smaller.

And that isn't even taking into consideration your heals.

So if people can juggle 5-6 skills, time them perfectly and use that to keep themselves topped up, while attacking and healing - I say let them have their unlimited magicka. It's a way to punish spammers and I'm all for that.

You say "let them have it", but at the same time clueless bad players with mediocre builds and zero insight on how mechanics works scream "omg OP class, nerfnerffff!1" because they see a skilled DK use Spirit Siphon to the fullest, and depend on this resto skill to make it happen.

Artemiisia

pls nerf the nerf threads......

Gaudrath

monkeymystic wrote: »

backbernur1_ESO wrote: »

Whats funny is we already have infinite magicka gain. its called MAGICKA RECOVERY. its always there your just speaking of a return of greater proportion but how often do you use other skills compared to auto attacking during this. I use other skills alot between my 2 swaps and i still have my magicka below its max with the regen so i think you just have issue of never running out since not using magicka for other things.

Cry for the point of Crying in Forums!!!

You probably play a Sorceror, which does have an overpowered amount of magicka recovery yes,

DKs and Templars don't have magicka recovery however.

Of course we do.

It's called Spirit Siphon.

monkeymystic

Gaudrath wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

backbernur1_ESO wrote: »

Whats funny is we already have infinite magicka gain. its called MAGICKA RECOVERY. its always there your just speaking of a return of greater proportion but how often do you use other skills compared to auto attacking during this. I use other skills alot between my 2 swaps and i still have my magicka below its max with the regen so i think you just have issue of never running out since not using magicka for other things.

Cry for the point of Crying in Forums!!!

You probably play a Sorceror, which does have an overpowered amount of magicka recovery yes,

DKs and Templars don't have magicka recovery however.

Of course we do.

It's called Spirit Siphon.

Since when was Spirit Siphon a class ability? It's a resto staff ability, just like Elemental Drain is a Destro staff ability.

You're arguments are invalid because Elemental Drain got nerfed for a reason, and now everyone just use Spirit Siphon for the EXACT same purpose, and use it in the exact same way as with Elemental Drain before it got fixed.

RylukShouja

Artemiisia wrote: »

pls nerf the nerf threads......

I'd settle for nerfing the bolded text. It's annoying and seeing entire paragraphs of it bothers my eyes.

Evergreen

Maybe Dragon Knight needs to be nerfed but its their skills that need to be looked at.

Why do Dragon Knights want everything they can abuse to be nerfed other than their own overpowered skills and synergies?

Your typical Dragon Knight:

NordJitsu

Elemental Drain got nerfed for a bad reason. Why shouldn't elemental DoTs trigger it? Isn't that the ability working as intended?

Lets hope they don't repeat the mistake.

Teroh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-AihITyYqQ#t=350

Yea cause thats not over powered.

TheGrimaceOR

Guys this is serious people can get back infinite magika with this skill. Also Sorc can get infinite mana with dark conversion so nerf that too. plus there is also the fact DK's can get infinite magika with ultimate reduction gear and battle roar it needs nerf too! I am not sure if zos or you guys are aware that NB can use siphoning attacks and just get back infinite magika on attacking! ahhh oh my god this needs to be gone! I was playing yesterday and you know what a templar was grouped with another healer. Templar was spaming equilibrum to get back infinite magkika and his healer friend would just heal him back up?! I just don't get it? Why am I the only one writing in bold and freaking out?!

monkeymystic

Like the above video shows, Spirit Siphon gives tons of magicka and healing back from Inferno, cinder storm and corrosive stacking ticks every second.

They fixed this so it no longer worked with Elemental Drain for a reason, and they should do the same with Spirit Siphon.

babylon

OMG stop spamming this crap - can you see you're the only one thinking in this way? STAAP!

monkeymystic

babylon wrote: »

OMG stop spamming this crap - can you see you're the only one thinking in this way? STAAP!

All they need to do to fix it, is to no longer let it trigger from the inferno, cinder and corrosive ticks. Then it's problem solved, and anyone else using it without these ticking abilities will not be affected.