Viable melee weapon skill based build?

Tobiz

Are there any melee weapon skill (stamina) based build for VR-content that is viable?

I find myself hard pressed in VR-content when trying melee playstiles, though I may survive a 2-3 mob pack with a nice streak of blocks and dodges. I end up at half health within seconds and legging it is a frequent tactic I employ but then I see that guy running around picking up a few packs of mobs and aoe them down with barely a scratch.
I have tried 1 hander and shield to 50, dual wield to 48 and bow up to 45. I employ the class skills for utility but would like my damage from weapon skills.
Im currently at 50 heavy and 40+ medium armour and medium is what I wear when soloing and in group content im in heavy with shield.
Im starting to consider a skill reset since my points are a bit scattered but at the cost Id like some confirmation if this even works.
Is it possible with a stamina based damage build or should I just yield and start leveling light armour and staffs like everyone else in order to take on a delve?

Lynx7386

As long as it still takes stamina to dodge, block, interrupt, sprint, and sneak, and as long as stamina based abilities cost more than their magicka based equivalents, and as long as stamina based abilities do less damage than their magicka based equivalents, I dont think we'll see any pure stamina or even heavy-stamina builds as 'viable'.

A lot of us want to be weapon focused, but ZOS seems completely intent on making this magicka online.

Crescent

Another problem is stamina recovery. We have virtually no options outsie chugging a pot.

Medium armor should provide stamina cost reduction...

Wifeaggro13

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As long as it still takes stamina to dodge, block, interrupt, sprint, and sneak, and as long as stamina based abilities cost more than their magicka based equivalents, and as long as stamina based abilities do less damage than their magicka based equivalents, I dont think we'll see any pure stamina or even heavy-stamina builds as 'viable'.

A lot of us want to be weapon focused, but ZOS seems completely intent on making this magicka online.

Yes sir , i 100% concur. Just looking at the passives in light armor . You could not build a pure weapon damage CHR. out of all the melee lines there are maybe 3 abilites out of all the lines that are even remotely usable.
Shield charge , SNS
Critical charge 2H
Rapid strikes Dual.
You could argue for executioner but none of the 2 hand lines scale very well with lvls. Good at lower levels garbage in vet.
There ultimate answer was to make a armor set that increases weapon damage by 20% it is the only way to make melee somewhat viable.

Tobiz

So, in conclusion, stamina is not a damage infliction property but a damage avoidance property and magicka is the way to go for damage infliction?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Crescent wrote: »

Another problem is stamina recovery. We have virtually no options outsie chugging a pot.

Medium armor should provide stamina cost reduction...

So should heavy armor. Along with reduction to CC break cost. Medium armor has all the stealth and dodging cost reductions and boosts already, so Heavy armor should get that one.

Heavy armors increased damage with melee attacks should be increased too. the 7% max you can get up to is laughable. Medium gets the crits, Heavy should get some more steady non-crit damage.

Tobiz wrote: »

So, in conclusion, stamina is not a damage infliction property but a damage avoidance property and magicka is the way to go for damage infliction?

Yes that is pretty much the gist of it. You cant use stamina attacks without losing your Dodge/sneak/block/CC break/sprint resource.... But with magicka, you can blow stuff up and still get away.

Erock25

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

There ultimate answer was to make a armor set that increases weapon damage by 20% it is the only way to make melee somewhat viable.

Which won't do jack for Sorc or DK melee because they're probably sitting at weapon dmg softcap anyway with their standard buffs. Not sure if NB / Temp is also easy to surpass soft cap.

CapuchinSeven

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Yes that is pretty much the gist of it. You cant use stamina attacks without losing your Dodge/sneak/block/CC break/sprint resource.... But with magicka, you can blow stuff up and still get away.

I mostly agree, although I am finding with Nightblade that I'm having more luck using my Shadow more often for escape (chaining it) as well as attack (100% crit chance) and putting some more damage onto my stamina to keep my magic simply for stealthing during combat.

Works very well with bow, attack, stealth, attack, stealth, attack, stealth, really gets under some peoples skin.

dastone

What he said

Moonchilde

Stamina-based characters *should* have something that is not in this game - natural resists based on the fact that they have rejected magika. Conan is a good example in the archetypal sense. Basically, your focus on physical strength gives you the sheer WILLPOWER to shrug off what magic does.

IMO this should be added as a World line of abilities that is only activated when a character has a minimum of magika-based abilities known. That way, you don't have to redesign or 'balance' the Weapon and Armor skill lines, and it allows a non-magic type of character to exist.

These abilities could take the form of actually useful resists, and fighting tactics/dirty tricks that can enhance damage, break a CC, or even proc things like an unsummon.

thorspark

Crescent wrote: »

Another problem is stamina recovery. We have virtually no options outsie chugging a pot.

Medium armor should provide stamina cost reduction...

All stamina based weapons have a 20% cost reduction passive (except for 1h/s which have 10% reduction for attacks and 50% reduction on block) which is almost equivalent to the 21% max magicka reduction from light armor.

The problem is that you use a lot of stamina dodging or blocking attacks and that weapon skill lines don't give you refunds on stamina.

On the other side, Restoration staff gives you 10% magicka back on heavy attack and 1% per hit if you use Siphon Spirit.
Destruction staff gives you 250 magicka back each time you kill a mob (I don't speak of Elemental Drain which has been nerfed to the bottom).

The solution could be either to improve stamina base skills damage or give at least some morphs abilities that refund stamina.

Heraclea

Right now I am doing semi-OK by using a two handed weapon, attacking with mostly Uppercut, and using Green Dragon Blood for health and stamina recovery. This does not seem to be optimal and I'm not sure how far past VR2 I will be able to take this.

Fortunately, I progress very slowly this way.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

i had decent luck on a nb with leeching strikes, cleave, uppercut, killer blade, and ambush as my 2hander bar.

im not sure it would work without leeching strikes. the stam returns allow for a good chunk of feat use. it also worked pretty well as a whirlwind spam generator. you lose alot of burst dps with leeching but gain a ton of survivability and sustainability.

Head.hunter

It's true 1h/shield is not exactly the ultimate in pvp, but blocking does allow you to wear down mobs while using other magicka based abilities + snaring/armor reduction attacks. 2h is great for burst dps and you can really maul things quickly with the right skill combos, but in my experience it takes all my magicka just to heal/buff myself let alone use it for dealing damage. Have a lot less experience with dual wielding so can't really say much about it...

I'd say maybe 2h could have better healing morphs, and 1h/shield have a slight stamina reduction cost, or buff somewhere.... and yea @demon heavy armor weapon damage increase makes a lot of sense. Any of these would give melee fighters a better chance in general without risking any kind of ability spam or making them op.

Tobiz

I'd like to find something that allows me to take on a pack of 3 vr mobs without dying too frequently.
I can do this with resto staff, a single point spent in the hot, and utilizing magicka based class spells and heavy attacks. Very low dps, but high survivability.
With weapon skills I cant find something that works without taking too much damage even in heavy armor. Higher dps, but no survivability, a bad block and Im gone.

njowoweb17_ESO

no need to spend money on a stat reset...i play stamina builds since beta,if you are a European and a Nightblade add me in-game @‌etheriosJimm
if not find another

Armitas

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

There ultimate answer was to make a armor set that increases weapon damage by 20% it is the only way to make melee somewhat viable.

It occurred to me as well that they were quickly trying to fix melee's by upgrading this set. However they screwed up because the set only works on weapon abilities and the two handed line is all light and heavy attacks until it's time for executioner. Which makes the set mostly useless for sustained 2hand dps builds.

I hope that set is just a bandaid so they can work on a real fix. They really missed the mark on two handed with this set upgrade.

To the OP.
If you put volcanic rune on your bar you can make any weapon build work on those 3 mob pulls. Volcanic rune is that amazing.

SootyTX

This is the biggest long term concern I have with ESO, and what takes it away from feeling like I'm actually playing an Elder Scrolls game - far too much focus on flashy magicka abilities while weapon attacks (light, heavy and weapon abilities) are fundamentally disadvantaged;
- multiple drains on stamina (sprint, block, dodge)
- worse damage/stamina ratios pretty much across the board
- far harder to regain stamina (as pointed out above, there's no equivalent to the have-your-magicka-back abilities

Elder Scrolls is not, and should not, be yet another case of who has the flashiest sparkles. At its core its always been more closely aligned to the Conan style of fantasy than dungeons and dragons. But the further I progress with multiple characters, the less and less I'm able to actually use the weapons I chose to actually do anything. Every bar on every character has to be magicka based and I'm getting really fed up with it.

It kills individuality (basically, it cuts down player options massively as your weapon choice becomes largely irrelevant) and it hurts immersion. I never once played a single player ES game with a magicka focused character, yet here I'm forced to in order to progress.

Armitas

^ Yep. I wanted to play a heavy armor nord with a two hander. Now I'm tanking in light armor, using a resto/destro staff to block, heal the group, and dps. What the heck happened?

steinernein

I'm experimenting with a set up that has the capacity to reach at least 900+ sustained dps melee. Pure stamina. We'll see how it turns out.

Armitas

steinernein wrote: »

I'm experimenting with a set up that has the capacity to reach at least 900+ sustained dps melee. Pure stamina. We'll see how it turns out.

Please let us know if you make it. A lot of us really want to make it work. I capped out on 510 avg dps on mammoths with a two hander. I've run out of significant ideas to make it better.

Wifeaggro13

steinernein wrote: »

I'm experimenting with a set up that has the capacity to reach at least 900+ sustained dps melee. Pure stamina. We'll see how it turns out.

good luck

pecheckler

After going back and forth with builds for weeks wasting 200,000+ gold on respecs, i'm done with trying stamina weapon builds. They ALL suck. I await the day that Zenimax fixes the imbalance and lets me play a weapon damage class like I wanted to from day one.

As it stands now anyone without a resto staff or destruction staff, and primary damage output from class skills set is an ineffective fool.

It's especially more painful for redguards and imperials who have less effective passives.

trimsic_ESO

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As long as it still takes stamina to dodge, block, interrupt, sprint, and sneak, and as long as stamina based abilities cost more than their magicka based equivalents, and as long as stamina based abilities do less damage than their magicka based equivalents, I dont think we'll see any pure stamina or even heavy-stamina builds as 'viable'.

A lot of us want to be weapon focused, but ZOS seems completely intent on making this magicka online.

Yes sir , i 100% concur. Just looking at the passives in light armor . You could not build a pure weapon damage CHR. out of all the melee lines there are maybe 3 abilites out of all the lines that are even remotely usable.
Shield charge , SNS
Critical charge 2H
Rapid strikes Dual.
You could argue for executioner but none of the 2 hand lines scale very well with lvls. Good at lower levels garbage in vet.
There ultimate answer was to make a armor set that increases weapon damage by 20% it is the only way to make melee somewhat viable.

I agree, but the new set that increases weapon damage by 20% also increases Pulsar damage by 20%, because Pulsar is a weapon skill.... This applies to all the destruction staff skill of course.

Therefore, stamina based damage is still pure garbage... and I'm sick of it.

Armitas

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As long as it still takes stamina to dodge, block, interrupt, sprint, and sneak, and as long as stamina based abilities cost more than their magicka based equivalents, and as long as stamina based abilities do less damage than their magicka based equivalents, I dont think we'll see any pure stamina or even heavy-stamina builds as 'viable'.

A lot of us want to be weapon focused, but ZOS seems completely intent on making this magicka online.

Yes sir , i 100% concur. Just looking at the passives in light armor . You could not build a pure weapon damage CHR. out of all the melee lines there are maybe 3 abilites out of all the lines that are even remotely usable.
Shield charge , SNS
Critical charge 2H
Rapid strikes Dual.
You could argue for executioner but none of the 2 hand lines scale very well with lvls. Good at lower levels garbage in vet.
There ultimate answer was to make a armor set that increases weapon damage by 20% it is the only way to make melee somewhat viable.

I agree, but the new set that increases weapon damage by 20% also increases Pulsar damage by 20%, because Pulsar is a weapon skill.... This applies to all the destruction staff skill of course.

Therefore, stamina based damage is still pure garbage... and I'm sick of it.

Have you confirmed that? I know it should based on the tool tip but I have heard that it does not apply to staves. (a poster on tamriel foundry said it would not work for staves.) I'll see if I can find the thread.

Found it.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/hundings-rage-destro-staff/

(I don't have the set to test)

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I really don't like these "Increases weapon damage with melee attack" descriptors. Weapon damage as I heard has a divider on it, by like 1.9 or something, making it actually less than listed spell damage. First that divider needs to go away if it exists.

There should be better traits for medium and heavy armor to increase weapon damage better. Heavy armors trait goes up to 7% which is not a lot. Medium/Heavy armor sets also don't get any natural armor penetration like light armor gets with spell resist penetration.

Until the balance of magicka and magica attacks vs stamina and stamina attacks is obtained I don't see any stamina builds surviving anything. Need stamina for things other than attacks too, so there will be a need for magicka based skills (even tho magicka based builds can get away with having no stamina attacks )

Tobiz

Armitas wrote: »

If you put volcanic rune on your bar you can make any weapon build work on those 3 mob pulls. Volcanic rune is that amazing.

Much appreciated. Ill try that out.
Yesterday I equipped a fire staff for the first time, put on my unsorted light greens and went out questing wondering if this will be as awkward as the leveling of the other weapon skills.

I giggle like a little girl with all the explosions and mobs drop like reeds under a scythe. No need to block 99% of the time, no need to CC, just nuke a pack of three down and they dont have time to kill me. I guess I could block those heavy attacks but meh they'll be dead in a sec.
This is in Northern Auridon as Veteran rank 2.

The good/sad part is that I have 0 skillpoints in light armour, 0 in destruction staff, I took a point in Mage light because youtube has shown me many has it.
I have 1 point in restoration staff on the other bar for the heal over time, its good to pop before I go in.
This can only get better.

I must be playing my other weapons wrong, they do not have this wow-factor, and they are fully specced with armor support in medium and heavy armor fully specced and geared alot better.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Id like to see something along the lines of, either in the leather or heavy armor skill sets maybe both,

3% of dodge, block, and interrupt cost is transferred to magicka for each piece of (armor type) worn. Just pulling numbers about of my nose, but would hopeful with full points and full set of armor somewhere around 75-90% of the cost could be transferred to magicka.

Shaun98ca2

So reading this I will post my believes on the Magicka/Stamina ordeal.

Magicka is supposed to be High Damage / Low sustainment.

Stamina is supposed to be Standard Damage / High Sustainment.

Magicka is supposed to have High Damage till you run out of Magicka then you are supposed to be stuck with low damage.

Stamina relies HEAVILY on your Light/Heavy Attacks doing damage for you. Stamina ALSO has very high survivability IE Dodge, Block, Stun. You hotbar abilities in Stamina and help produce a higher burst damage(not Magicka high).

The real current problem with this set up is....Magicka never runs out in this game currently. Most mobs fights end burning all your Magicka as fast as possible usually equaling dead mob. Magicka is VERY easy to gain back for all classes other than Templar.

Knowing this it also makes sense why the Restro Staff allows a Magicka gain as Magicka is VERY important to healing and again SUPPOSED to be hard to maintain....its NOT.

---

As for the Light Armor versus Heavy/Medium Armor. Well looking at Heavy/Medium Armor there is no "clear winner" between the 2, both are good for all builds equally as it currently.

Then you look at Light Armor and Light Armor become leaps and bounds better than the other 2 due to the current nature of how overly viable Magicka is and then goes and makes Magicka builds BETTER showing CLEAR favoritism towards Magicka.

The armors should maybe give SLIGHT advantages in their area is expertise but there should be any real disadvantages as the PLAY AS YOU WANT comes into play.

Take a NightBlade for example MOST usually lean towards wanting to wear Medium Armor but that the same time this SHOULDNT prevent that same NightBlade wearing Medium Armor to be a Tank. So how he just has to use certain traits on the armor to reach the armor soft cap and put on a Shield and he becomes a tank. Same thing should go for Light Armor and tanking or Heavy Armor and DPSing. There should be no disadvantage or you don't get to play as you want anymore.

Armitas

Tobiz wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

If you put volcanic rune on your bar you can make any weapon build work on those 3 mob pulls. Volcanic rune is that amazing.

Much appreciated. Ill try that out.
Yesterday I equipped a fire staff for the first time, put on my unsorted light greens and went out questing wondering if this will be as awkward as the leveling of the other weapon skills.

I giggle like a little girl with all the explosions and mobs drop like reeds under a scythe. No need to block 99% of the time, no need to CC, just nuke a pack of three down and they dont have time to kill me. I guess I could block those heavy attacks but meh they'll be dead in a sec.
This is in Northern Auridon as Veteran rank 2.

The good/sad part is that I have 0 skillpoints in light armour, 0 in destruction staff, I took a point in Mage light because youtube has shown me many has it.
I have 1 point in restoration staff on the other bar for the heal over time, its good to pop before I go in.
This can only get better.

I must be playing my other weapons wrong, they do not have this wow-factor, and they are fully specced with armor support in medium and heavy armor fully specced and geared alot better.

Yep, it's like night and day. Sadly you can block while casting too.

Moonchilde

What a solid stamina build should be like at VR level, IMO. Never gonna happen the way things are, but this is the equivalent to the magika builds we have now. There should be options besides a walking people-oven in cloth/resto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cXGZ-8PWv0