Bash damage has been reduced way too much
Update 46 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676209
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Akhratos✭✭✭✭
LOL man why are you so mad, just to shut you down on a few of your points, i'm a breton so magicka regen covered, spell crit covered with DK skills and thief mundus stone, spell cost reduction with the seducer set and breton passives, stamina/health regen with vamp invigorating drain and Green dragon blood.
Spell and weapon penentration covered with my crafted sword traits also.
ummmm and since when is drawing aggro not relevent in pve VR content? I get it you're mad because you're only mass damage stam ability got taken from you...... adapt and overcome
PS I only join a group for a group dungeon, pvp solo pve solo.
How is it relevant to draw agro while soloing content?
If you would ever be able to read you would know Im not qqing about bash, wich I didnt build around, but about the heavy/2handed/1hsbashaside current state in VR/pvp. Im asking you, how many viable stamina bsed builds besides bash builds do you ever see in pvp? I mean using mostly weapon skills (sta).
But anyways, if you had a single clue or a bit of reading comprehension you would have noticed that some of your sponsored skills are bugged, so keep barking about your prowress.
So yes, you bore so much im gonna stfu or youll make me fall asleep.0 -
Or maybe you should learn what sword and board actually is, please.@Agurto
You're not supposed to be able to damage with it. That's ridiculous.
It gives you more armor, more block mitigation, cheaper block, more spell mitigation, and much more powerful interrupts.
If it also did good damage, like it used to, it would be OP.
You're a defensive player. You chose that line. Your job isn't to burst things, its to slowly whittle them down while staying alive. If you wanted Burst you should have picked a different weapon.
Or maybe you picked it after finding out how over powered it was.
History shows that it is more than an interrupt mechanism. It is also used to throw you off balance, off your feet, onto the ground, and rip your head off.
As for defense? What, if I'm burning stamina crouched behind my shield unable to do anything else??? At least it can be enchanted for something.
But as always a "tank" is used in a very different way and build than that of a tank. It just looks like one. If you're spec'd for all crit and dps stats and gear, while using no true survivability stats and gear of a tank spec, you are only using some aspects of the class.
If I am built to survive, but can not because of nerfs, the class spec is a fail. I use shield bash for interrupts. I have spent 4 sp into improving my shield bash so I had better mitigation and cheaper block, I can get much better spell mitigation for less with cloth armor.
The Interrupts are interrupts are interrupts between classes. The interrupt.
I can spit in the mobs face and do more damage and interrupt them at the same time.
Saying it's fine when you don't even use the spec, wrong.
Saying a shield was never meant to do damage, way off base and so historically wrong it's ... well ... in this Time of Information, Ignorance is a Choice.
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YuccaPalm✭✭✭Melee is crazy underpowered it does even less dmg than bow/destro. The game forces you to play range to be effective in PvP.0 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭Melee is crazy underpowered it does even less dmg than bow/destro. The game forces you to play range to be effective in PvP.
No...the GAME does not force anyone to do anything.
The MINMAXERS do...and even then it's not really them.
Only -you- can make a choice for yourself. Unless you're bound and determined to just follow the crowd.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.1 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭I really must say it is fine. Pulled out my lave whip and started using power bash . Meh . Yeah at 3 mobs it's a little dicey but I'm ok with that, it was steam roll before. I suggest less time on forums and more l2p1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah, only magicka abilities should let you stream roll content.ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »I really must say it is fine. Pulled out my lave whip and started using power bash . Meh . Yeah at 3 mobs it's a little dicey but I'm ok with that, it was steam roll before. I suggest less time on forums and more l2p
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Anzer✭✭✭
Apparently you didn't get the memo. Stamina = Roll & Block. Any other use of the resource is to be mocked and laughed at, heartily.Maverick827 wrote: »Yeah, only magicka abilities should let you stream roll content.NA Server:
Anzer - Nightblade Tank / Zander - Dragonknight Tank / Selvaria - Sorcerer Healer / Rozalin Black - Templar Healer1 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
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How is it relevant to draw agro while soloing content?
If you would ever be able to read you would know Im not qqing about bash, wich I didnt build around, but about the heavy/2handed/1hsbashaside current state in VR/pvp. Im asking you, how many viable stamina bsed builds besides bash builds do you ever see in pvp? I mean using mostly weapon skills (sta).
But anyways, if you had a single clue or a bit of reading comprehension you would have noticed that some of your sponsored skills are bugged, so keep barking about your prowress.
So yes, you bore so much im gonna stfu or youll make me fall asleep.
Chill out, jesus you take this so seriously, reverting to snide childish remarks..... all that tells me and everybody else is that you're very very mad.
All your points are invalid anyway so probably a good idea if you "STFU"
Delta
Valheru's0 -
MrBeatDown✭✭✭✭The management/developers of this game are stupid and lazy. They should have just fixed the Exploit which involved having powerbash passive with bash jewelry. But instead, they deleted the damage that a Knight can do in this game by completely nerfing it into the ground. This is the most stupid thing they could have done for this game. I hope they look back on this patch when the game flops, and realize how stupid they were. You get what you deserve, reap what you sow.0
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YuccaPalm✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »
No...the GAME does not force anyone to do anything.
The MINMAXERS do...and even then it's not really them.
Only -you- can make a choice for yourself. Unless you're bound and determined to just follow the crowd.
Its true no one forces me to play range but everyone with an IQ higher than a tomato will play ranged or quit the game. My 126dmg 2hand weapon does 108dmg on a monster my 102 dmg lightning staff does 127 on the same monster. I can just root the monster and attack it without taking any dmg. Melee is supposed to do much more dmg than ranged but this game does it the other way around xD.0 -
Akhratos✭✭✭✭
Chill out, jesus you take this so seriously, reverting to snide childish remarks..... all that tells me and everybody else is that you're very very mad.
All your points are invalid anyway so probably a good idea if you "STFU"
Oh here it comes.
The one talking prowress and advicing bugged stuff had enough and talk about childish remarks. Your lack of reading comprehension is childish.Apparently you didn't get the memo. Stamina = Roll & Block. Any other use of the resource is to be mocked and laughed at, heartily.
So there are 4 weapon skill trees: 2handed, dw, bow, 1h/s.
Those rely on stamina as both resource and damage source.
Your point, along with mr. allwellrounded is that they should all be wiped from the game because the devs didnt get the "memo".
Of course, we should stick to class skills, so if you want to pull out a good dps go light because magicka is the only way to go now and it should always be.
If you feel bad about becoming a caster, stfu or run in heavy and be grateful for being allowed to, even if you wont ever perform half as well.
ZOS might like it. Less bugs to fix (like half the fkng 1hs skill tree).1 -
Anzer✭✭✭
No, no. ^That was the dev memo, they just forgot to include it in the patch notes (along with the Biting Jab nerf and invisibility nerf).
So there are 4 weapon skill trees: 2handed, dw, bow, 1h/s.
Those rely on stamina as both resource and damage source.
Your point, along with mr. allwellrounded is that they should all be wiped from the game because the devs didnt get the "memo".
Of course, we should stick to class skills, so if you want to pull out a good dps go light because magicka is the only way to go now and it should always be.
If you feel bad about becoming a caster, stfu or run in heavy and be grateful for being allowed to, even if you wont ever perform half as well.
ZOS might like it. Less bugs to fix (like half the fkng 1hs skill tree).
NA Server:
Anzer - Nightblade Tank / Zander - Dragonknight Tank / Selvaria - Sorcerer Healer / Rozalin Black - Templar Healer0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »
Seriously people you need to learn then damn meaning of exploit. It was NEVER an exploit wake up to yourselves learn to comprehend the English language.
Just my bugbear sorry.
Ultimately this post I quoted will likely be reality. It happened in WoW , it is already happening in ESO - tanking is hard but I love it though I can see. Any quitting
I can tell you why tanks quit in wow and it sure as hell wasnt their damage.
Same reason I quit tanking: tired of dealing with whiny brats that know how to do my job better than me, or complain I havent finished the last pull 5 minutes in.
It wasnt tank damage.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KraidenDove wrote: »Just wait destruction staff users. Your time is coming. We will make sure of it. I am sick of seeing 1 pyro kill 10 VR mobs of his own level in public dungeons and then killing massive amounts of keep npcs with very little resources.
Oh and BTW folks, SWORD AND SHIELD IS NOT A TANKING LINE SKILL. Yes, it provides more damage resistance (ok I am B.Sing here because everyone knows it is bugged atm and does not apply correctly) but sword and shield has been used as a offensive weapon combo in warfare since the dawn of its inception. In every TES game it is a versatile weapon but because of the MMO WoW community, you refused to see past the traditional (tank must be guy with shield derp derp derp) Tell you what, make our swords have more damage now or give us an actual defensive buff that MAKES US TANKS. We DO NOT want to group to finish quests. We are tanks, we should be able to clear solo dungeons by ourselves. As for dps aoe pyros, you shouldn't be able to survive a public alone much less clear the entire room.
Your time is numbered.
Three of 5 tanks in wow dont use shields. Deathknight tanks with a 2h, most monks dual wield, and druids use staves.
EQ had shields on tanks before wow existed and shields have been a mainstay of aggro holders everywhere.
Oh and if its not a tank line explain pucture's taunt.
Ill be waiting.0 -
Anzer✭✭✭
Man, you are all over the place! First you say that tanks don't need to use shields by giving an example from WoW (3/5 tanks don't use shields), then say that shields have been used by tanks since EQ and finally saying that puncture having a taunt makes the 1h&s exclusively for tanking.Three of 5 tanks in wow dont use shields. Deathknight tanks with a 2h, most monks dual wield, and druids use staves.
EQ had shields on tanks before wow existed and shields have been a mainstay of aggro holders everywhere.
Oh and if its not a tank line explain pucture's taunt.
Ill be waiting.
By that rational, I suppose you would say that the Undaunted line is exclusively for tanking also?
NA Server:
Anzer - Nightblade Tank / Zander - Dragonknight Tank / Selvaria - Sorcerer Healer / Rozalin Black - Templar Healer0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Man, you are all over the place! First you say that tanks don't need to use shields by giving an example from WoW (3/5 tanks don't use shields), then say that shields have been used by tanks since EQ and finally saying that puncture having a taunt makes the 1h&s exclusively for tanking.
By that rational, I suppose you would say that the Undaunted line is exclusively for tanking also?
I have a silly question. A shield is a real item correct?
What is a shield used for in human history?
If you can answer that, you know that a shield, shields, right?
Then yes, there is not the correct way to tank. Anyone can build any type of build char they want. As long as you are 4 people, going into an INSTANCE (not public dungeon), at your level, so no bloody cheating go back when your big WoW crap. At least in ESO you dont get loot when you are to big in level right?
Any group that can handle and solve/succeed in their level of instance, have done the "right" thing.
Then being a tank myself, I do find the abilities in the 1H and shield very useful. But I use other abilities as well. Actually I got 2 differnt setups depending on boss type/situation. But I only play tank, cause I like getting hit in the head!Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Just checking in loving the new dps tank rotation.
I have to use a more complex stuff but I dot up, hit them with power bash. Two whips and finish with heavy attack .
More fun than shield bash slam0 -
ShintaiDK✭✭✭ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »Just checking in loving the new dps tank rotation.
I have to use a more complex stuff but I dot up, hit them with power bash. Two whips and finish with heavy attack .
More fun than shield bash slam
Thats a great tactic...if you are a DK to substitute the lack of the skill line with your class abilities.0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭
Thats a great tactic...if you are a DK to substitute the lack of the skill line with your class abilities.
Lol . I see what you did. I'm getting better at it now much more fun dps is higher and surviving fights of 3 mobs and mini bosses without too much difficulty.
The sky hasn't fallen
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Drasn✭✭✭✭"O ma gursh, dey dun broked ma bash button"
You guys complaining about this and saying "I can't tank anymore" or "I can't solo quests" are either so low of a level that tanking doesn't matter or you seriously broke your toon when spending skill points. (The fact that most of the whiners are DK's makes me think you are playing the wrong game. Seriously, you play the most blatantly overpowered class in the game and whine when an ability available to everyone gets toned down?)
My main is a V10 sword and board Templar. I have only ever bashed to interrupt or finish off a low health enemy. There is a reason that you have access to two different resource pools, learn to use them.
I know what you are going to say... "I r a tank, needz ma stamz" ... really? Do you? I tank in full light armor with overcharged magicka, magicka regen, health, health regen, spell resist, and armor. Stam is less than 100 points from being overcharged.
What the above means is: if you relied solely on a clearly broken ability then you didn't know how to play your character to begin with.
TLDR: Learn to play and don't put all your eggs in one basket.0 -
ShintaiDK✭✭✭thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »"O ma gursh, dey dun broked ma bash button"
You guys complaining about this and saying "I can't tank anymore" or "I can't solo quests" are either so low of a level that tanking doesn't matter or you seriously broke your toon when spending skill points. (The fact that most of the whiners are DK's makes me think you are playing the wrong game. Seriously, you play the most blatantly overpowered class in the game and whine when an ability available to everyone gets toned down?)
My main is a V10 sword and board Templar. I have only ever bashed to interrupt or finish off a low health enemy. There is a reason that you have access to two different resource pools, learn to use them.
I know what you are going to say... "I r a tank, needz ma stamz" ... really? Do you? I tank in full light armor with overcharged magicka, magicka regen, health, health regen, spell resist, and armor. Stam is less than 100 points from being overcharged.
What the above means is: if you relied solely on a clearly broken ability then you didn't know how to play your character to begin with.
TLDR: Learn to play and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Your L2P is not shoehorning people into a single specific build for it to be viable. And who knows, the next nerf might kill your build entirely. And you only have one.0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭
Your L2P is not shoehorning people into a single specific build for it to be viable. And who knows, the next nerf might kill your build entirely. And you only have one.
I have no idea what you are trying to say, so forgive me if I misinterpret.
You are saying I have only 1 build? If so, that is nonsense... With nearly 300 skill points at my disposal I have quite a few builds/ability load-outs that I switch between depending on the situation. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp that someone can have points spent in an ability for a specific situation? Same with armor, you can carry different sets for different needs. That's right, even though I don't currently wear heavy or medium armor both are leveled to 50. (PROTIP: You can do the same thing with weapons.)
As far as nerfing things goes, you do understand that the nerf to Biting Jabs is far worse than the nerf to bash right? That ability was used heavily in my rotation. So they did nerf my preferred load-out. You know what I did? I pulled the now nearly useless ability off my bar and replaced it with, get this, a different ability.
See I was able to do these things above because I know how to play my character, I understand that even though I can only have 5+U abilities active at any given time I may need to make some changes and am prepared should I have to. (I learned to play my class, rather than spam one ability over and over again.)
I really don't understand the shoehorning comment, either you didn't understand my post or you have no idea what that term means. What I typed says learn to play your class and give yourself options other than "Bash, bash, bash all day long, bashing these mobs and singing a song." Kinda the opposite of shoehorning.0 -
No, bash damage wasnt reduced too much. Bash damage is fine now.
HOWEVER it highligts a critical flaw in ESO - melee is ***. Complete and utter ***. Its not viable, its not fun, it break your freakin mouse finger and your mouse. Doing 2-3% damage on mobs is simply not acceptable. That's why everyone used bash as a viable alternative, because it did alot more damage.
Melee damage need to be upped considerably, around a 150-200% increase for 1h while 2h is tuned to be maybe 50% above 1h. Power attacks should get appropriate increased damage as well.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeap...Bash nerf shows how bad Melee in general in this game is...
Bash was the only build being used for a reason..Because everything else was ***.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos3 -
Ranrach✭✭Well, bash is certainly one of the things that shows the big flaw in the skill system.
First of all, bash should not be counted as a full DPS ability for DPS classes (although in real life I think you can hit pretty hard with an iron shield with spikes on it). As a dedicated tank (as am I) it's the ONLY full DPS ability.
The problem is within the class and be "whatever you want to be". It doesn't work when the game asks of players to use the Trinity Force.
I made another post in another thread about meta builds. It almost seems that we should level some kind of meta build in order to play a specific role in a specific location. For example. When I play solo I need a good balance between offensive and defensive skills. In late game VR ranks you need to have a very balanced build to be of use to a group. But on the other hand the game also requires a dedicated Trinity Force (Tank, Healer, DPS) to be able to accomplish certain objectives (read: VR Dungeons and prolly Trials later on).
When I was in the beta, I tried to imagine what my goal would be within the game. So I planned a specific tank build that would be very helpful late game when I would play VR Dungeons and Trials. So I start the game by leveling this which went quite well. Once I hit VR3, my tank build was still very viable, because of the bash damage. I could keep on making progress within the game and still have some kind of DPS. With the bash nerf I can't. I am searching for a DPS build that will make my tank build viable. I need to find the balance between those two to be able to play solo again. Well, I can't, let me explain.
First of all, it was not my goal. If it's in theory (in charts) possible to do so, I didn't set my mind to that. I made a great plan that worked very well, but because people started to complain my plan is gone.
Second, I have set every single skill point and leveling process into my viable tank build. I could, in theory, respec to spend skill points in high DPS skills, but that will cost me money. I am using this money for crafting purposes and I don't own millions of gold like some other players that destroyed the economy with the dupe bug. I also believe it should not be the way to go that whenever a big patch is released we all should respec all of a sudden.
Third, the arguments for why someone should play this game are not longer viable anymore. "Play however you want to play". No! Sounds like great marketing to me, but it doesn't work like that in the game.
The problem is not bash, it's the kind of builds that use bash. It needs thorough investigation, not a wide nerf in bash. In order to specifically nerf certain builds (heavy DPS builds using bash as defensive/offensive DPS ability), the skill tree should be limited to specific roles (Tank, DPS, Healer). So either adjust the skill tree to specific roles or change the game mechanics so that specific roles are not required any longer (like in GW2). You can't have the best of both. You eventually end up with OP builds or with builds that SHOULD work, but are not working anymore after a nerfing patch.
Bash is just one example. Bat swarm was another. I never used it, but I can imagine it can be very viable on a tank. It gives the tank survivability, nice DPS output, but not too much. When a high DPS character starts using it, it becomes OP. The problem was never bat swarm on it's own, it was a specific build where it was used.
The flaw of "be whatever you want to be". It won't work in a game that requires Trinity Force. Neither will it work with the argument "that 1-50 and VR is solo content". The skilltree system doesn't fit the game, change it.0 -
MrBeatDown✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Yeap...Bash nerf shows how bad Melee in general in this game is...
Bash was the only build being used for a reason..Because everything else was ***.
Exactly, They cater to casters and Rainbow hybrid characters.
They could give a *** less about melee.
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BatalovGKSoul ShrivenSo many whine from bash bots, that casn't do a thing without their spammable skill...
I play as DK... I have Tank build and DPS stamina build.
So as Tank i don't see any problem that bash got nerfed I just use more skills instead of stupidily spaming bash at VR10... Yeah with nerf of bash my damage reduced but not so much... When I was spending to kill mob about 15 seconds now I spend 30-40 seconds and i don't see problem here, cause bash is the skill for INTERRUPTING cast not for damaging enemies like hell...
If I choose to use my DPS build 2h 5 med + 2 heavy pieces of armor it's even easier than bash spamming before the patch... Uppercut from stealth - 2.5k damage -> Purify if there are 2 or more enemies -> Lava Whip -> H. Attack -> Uppercut -> H. Attack with Lava Whip -> H. Attack + Executioner thats all...0 -
Zolyok✭✭✭
Agree@Agurto
You're not supposed to be able to damage with it. That's ridiculous.
It gives you more armor, more block mitigation, cheaper block, more spell mitigation, and much more powerful interrupts.
If it also did good damage, like it used to, it would be OP.
You're a defensive player. You chose that line. Your job isn't to burst things, its to slowly whittle them down while staying alive. If you wanted Burst you should have picked a different weapon.
Or maybe you picked it after finding out how over powered it was.
This is not a dps source that's all
It's here to interupt the damage are just a plus
Edited by Zolyok on May 24, 2014 4:59PM0 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭I understand that being able to bash4days and kill every mob running at you isn't what it is intended for, but going from 300+ damage per bash to a constant 90 damage Is really making the game hard for me.
Being a tank and using only sword/shield throughout the game (I'm v9) I can't really just switch to another build/weapon as leveling from scratch is too hard at veteran level. Before It was difficult but I enjoyed it, now i'm struggling to kill 2 zombies as each light attack does 100 damage and they have 37k health each meaning that i'm probably dead by the time I get 37 hits in, no matter what skills I use the outcome is the same, the bash was the one thing helping me level as a tank and right now I'm not sure what to do. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Its fair now. why? 300+ is for abilities what involving weapon or spells, not for bash. 90 is decend damage for bash because you do it while blocking (no stun, decent damage resistance ...) 100 is lightattack with weapon... dualwield doing such damage, why should you be able to do it while blocking?
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_LeroyW on May 24, 2014 5:47PM0