Was biting jabs nerfed?

stefanroeth123neb18_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

I am really beginning to think that people at ZOS don't play their own game.... Please, use 10 minutes to play a DK and a Sorc DPS and then another 10 minutes to play a Templar DPS. And then tell me that there is even ONE thing that the templar is too good at... Too high single target dmg, are you kidding me? The pure fact that the Templar is out of magicka about 30 seconds into a fight and needs other means to regain that alone negates this "too high single target dmg".

It's really a joke what the game devs are doing at the moment.

madangrypally

Canceling a sub still lets you play the remaining playtime right? Gives time to get characters in order. lol

Dimar

Well it appears to be a concerted effort to eliminate Templars from the game or turn them into dedicated healers who can no longer solo. Hell if I only have a 50/50 chance of surviving a one on one encounter, and basically a sure fire trip to the wayshrine for multiple mobs, then I'm pretty much useless as a solo and as my damage is 30% less than what it was, I basically useless in a group. dedicated healing just isn't an option either as the magicka costs are far to high with on way to regen enough to make that work either. Makes beating templars in PV easy though, guess that was the intent, give everyone a sure fire easy kill in PVP.

Pazzuzu

Haven't played my templar for more then a few minutes in PvE content since this uncalled for, badly implemented stealth nerf. Cancelled my sub on last patch day. Tried to play my sorc alt yesterday, got constant rollbacks that wasted about 40 minutes worth of time trying to quest. My weapon swap no longer works on my templar (most of the time, no idea why). Zenimax WTF are you people doing, your management is destroying this game (for me at least), you guys are totally out to lunch on this stuff to even consider implementing nerfs like this in the first place.

PikkonMG

I canceled my sub, might re-up if they fix this but at this point i'm unsure if it's fixed that I will even bother.

Dimar

Me as well, I really don't have the inclination to restart another charater and I have no desire to be a castor or healer, so I guess we just look for another MMO.

madangrypally

If this is anything like the NB bugs (even though this was intential) it will take them a long time to fix. I dont have it in me to wait around for weeks.

Slash8915

I also cancelled my sub due to all the crap from this patch. On a different note, I've managed just fine without Puncturing Sweep in my setup. Do i want it back unmolested? HELL yes! That was my primary "go to" skill. But I've been having fun messing with other setups.

Pimbee

I am very unhappy with this change. Even if they change it back, but increase the magicka cost I will be unhappy, because my magicka goes fast enough already!

PRE-Veteran rank this might not be so bad, but Veteran Rank/Multiple mobs - this is horrible. I am mostly light armor - Full Heal Spec/Support Spec.

The only Templar Ability that would allow me to quest by myself in veteran ranked areas was Biting Jabs. I cannot afford to try and face-tank veteran ranked mobs, because I will die quickly.

Do they want me to spam heals until I die - since I cannot effectively do any DPS now? Or do they want me to respec, re-armor myself, re-attribute, and re-glyph, to play the way OTHERS want me play? Do we all need to be tanks or DPS?

I hope all of you sent in Feedback tickets to express how frustrating playing this game is now for a lot of Templars.

I'd play a completely different class, but I am not fond of questing, and I should not have to re-roll when I put all this time into THIS character. I like to be full heals and support. I don't like to be forced to play the way everyone else does - especially when this game stated I would have many options with armor, skills, and weapon combinations to play the way I like to.

Lorgren_Benirus

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey folks, wanted to post a small update on this. We started looking into this yesterday as soon as we saw reports. We're working on gathering the details--if this slipped through the patch notes, we'll get it added.

Who even asked to change the dang thing in the first place? Or this is ZM's way of dealing with bots by screwing over honest players and the class they play? Instead of stopping selling game time for cash to prevent the bots coming in, ZM just ruins everything else. Nice work.

Personally I get the feeling that ZM's just posing with the bot talk. Every day there are more and more bots, in higher and higher level areas. Now it's not just the chars names like "ohsfjhfsjglh", now actual players are using bots to level their chars while they're away because they know what a toothless fruit bat ZM's customer service is, and that they like the money they're getting from gold sellers and bot users when they buy the game time, so much so that their work on "dealing with them" is just superficial.

Jando

The fact that they more than doubled the cooldown is absurd. And here's a note to ZoS...never have a cooldown exceed the animation for an ability....Especially in a game that's not supposed to have cooldowns! Either adjust the damage, mana cost, or slightly decrease the speed of the animation if you need to balance.

Ever since the patch came out, I had no idea why combat all of sudden felt absolutely horrible. Now I know that it was because VR mobs got buffed, and horrible lag was introduced because of this stealth nerf to Jabs).

Please fix as soon as possible, ZoS. Thank you.

PS.. I still love the game. But, someone really wasn't being smart about this one.

sCouraGeFire

When the craglorn patch went live I thought I was just getting lag. Biting jabs nerf has reduced my dps/survivability significantly. Not because I cant spam biting jabs, but because after casting it I am sitting there completely vulnerable. It feels the same with whirlwind too. Melee Templar feels way too unresponsive. They should just leave the skill alone already and only increase the magicka cost if they change restoring spirit back to what it was.

Azphira

Zenimax Online doesn't care, I cancelled, the email was almost sounded happy that I did. No feedback survey or anything.

Suel

They Ruined My Templar, Played up to VR8 worked my ass off solo. Not playable anymore. Canceling my account Arshole's go jump in a lake.

Reinmard

They simply nerf it because the noobs cry out and loud coz at pvp they "couldnt move" at biting jabs,
Learn to *** use immovable
But is way easier to nerf the templar than ask the awful player to stop sucking right?

Greed171

I agree that a magicka cost increase is also unacceptable. I'm glad to hear that my character will not feel like an old stick shift that you cant keep from stalling every time you try to pick up the pace, but templar ARE NOT putting out better dps than other classes. They simply aren't. If you want to nerf an ability, there has to be A REASON. DK and sorcerers are both doing much better dps. We already can't have more than two copies of backlash applied to a boss at any given time, meaning that the ability is useable by only one or two people in raid dps, so WHAT IS GOING ON?
I need to see buffs to other class aspects to make them a more viable form of dps, or give me a real advantage in tanking (I'm not better than any other class at this...). Make this nerf less destructive to the class as a whole please. It's by far the best skill we have and I certainly don't find it imbalanced. DKs need much closer review if the developers feel templar are a problem anywhere.

Reinmard

Now templar MUST wear light armor in order to be able to use biting jabs.
You should change the image at the character creation to a one wearing light armor instead of a super cool heavy armor...

wootuz

Biting Jabs is sooo clunky now. Cast and then stand around getting beat on by 3 mobs. I can't even chain another ability while the mob is being knocked back. Good times. I question why I'm playing a Templar at this point when the only templar ability I have on my bar worth using is Breath of Life.... Sad really.

madangrypally

deleted

grizzbi

I'm a templar. I want this skill to be nerfed. I don't want my class to be balanced around this skill. It's still OP in PVE. This single ability works better than 4 or 5 combined. If you want to be a one trick poney in PvE, you can still spam it..you just need to use another OP skill with it like Volcanic rune. Or even Magnum shot or anything else..Smashing 2 buttons is not difficult.

People should stop to wear only light armor. They should try hybrid builds or even stamina builds. Those ones need attention. For more diversity...

TheJudgeHoldenn

grizzbi wrote: »

I'm a templar. I want this skill to be nerfed. I don't want my class to be balanced around this skill. It's still OP in PVE. This single ability works better than 4 or 5 combined. If you want to be a one trick poney in PvE, you can still spam it..you just need to use another OP skill with it like Volcanic rune. Or even Magnum shot or anything else..Smashing 2 buttons is not difficult.

People should stop to wear only light armor. They should try hybrid builds or even stamina builds. Those ones need attention. For more diversity...

While I agree that we shouldn't be based upon that single skill, that doesn't mean they should nerf it and deprive us of what is one of our very few class skills worth using.

Lodos

grizzbi wrote: »

I'm a templar. I want this skill to be nerfed. I don't want my class to be balanced around this skill. It's still OP in PVE. This single ability works better than 4 or 5 combined. If you want to be a one trick poney in PvE, you can still spam it..you just need to use another OP skill with it like Volcanic rune. Or even Magnum shot or anything else..Smashing 2 buttons is not difficult.

People should stop to wear only light armor. They should try hybrid builds or even stamina builds. Those ones need attention. For more diversity...

For me, the problem isn't the nerf to the skill, but to the Templar in general. After using Biting Jabs, there is a 1.2 sec "Global Cooldown" were I can't do anything else. No other skills can be triggered. This is the real issue here. If Biting Jabs was on its own cool down that would be one thing, but when you lock out of all my abilities for 1.2 seconds, you've completely halted my combat flow. DPS reduction is one thing, but this actually makes the skill relatively useless. I can deal with having to supplement it with another ability in between castings, but as it is, that's not possible.

I'm not one to dwell on a single skill, so when I found Biting Jabs to be relatively unusable for my build, I tried to find another setup for my sword and board that would compensate for the lost dps/area of effect. I couldn't. There is no other Templar/1h ability or set of abilities that complements melee for the Templar. No matter what setup I used, I could not do enough damage fast enough to fight 2 mobs reliably. Sometimes I'd win easily, other times I'd be dead (depending on creature abilities and how they moved around). Maybe there is a build out there that works well, but the majority of Templar offensive skills are woefully weak to the point that they aren't worth the magika.

Maybe that's another area where Zenimax went wrong with this change (aside from having it undocumented and adding global cooldown). Instead of just destroying this one skill, they should have first looked to see why is was so prevalent. That way they would have discovered that other Templar skills in general need to be tweaked prior to making such massive alterations this one ability. I'm not going to unsub over this, but if this is going to be the pattern of how changes will be introduced to the game then it is no longer something I want to be a part of. Time will tell (but not too much time).

bean19

grizzbi wrote: »

I'm a templar. I want this skill to be nerfed. I don't want my class to be balanced around this skill. It's still OP in PVE. This single ability works better than 4 or 5 combined. If you want to be a one trick poney in PvE, you can still spam it..you just need to use another OP skill with it like Volcanic rune. Or even Magnum shot or anything else..Smashing 2 buttons is not difficult.

People should stop to wear only light armor. They should try hybrid builds or even stamina builds. Those ones need attention. For more diversity...

Here's my problem with nerfing this skill. . . I don't want to group for veteran content or hope that random strangers are nearby so that I can progress without it being a headache. My Templar is one of the few builds that I can solo veteran content with and not have ridiculously high armor repairs from dying a lot (though even not dying takes 50% or more of the gold I earn).

So far the only other character I have at Veteran level is my Sorcerer and to be viable, I have to use Mage Light for crit, Crystal Shards for KD and direct damage, and my two pets. That leaves me with one skill to play with and I've gone with either Destructive Clench for knockback or Mage's Fury for a finisher (usually Mage's Fury). On my second bar, I use a resto-staff and have Mutagen for that 4th skill and Dark Conversion in the place of Crystal Shards. I use it for when my pets don't get aggro on the mob I'm killing. . . I can get by with that and it does quite well unless I face a boss who is immune to CC (in which case I simply can't win alone. . . even a single Storm Atronach can kill me unless I just tap it to sick my pets on it and then use Teleport to stay away from it until they get aggro (a skill I have to put on my bar just for bosses who ignore crowd control).

I read these people saying that Veteran ranks are easy and my mind is blown. I'm min/maxing with blue set gear, have high health and overcharged magicka so my spells hit harder. My crit % approaches getting crits almost every other spell. . . and 3 veteran mobs still make me have to use a potion to survive every now and again. It's extremely challenging and, to be honest, really annoying because I don't play solo PVE because it's challenging. . . I play it to feel powerful and to be able to play with different skill specs. That's what is fun to me. . . getting to try different skills and change the way I play. . . not finding the absolute optimum build for solo PvE so that I can survive the content.

Anyway, I may be taking a break except when playing with my brother. If you have a partner, you can still play the game with skill choices you find fun instead of those that are optimum.

Elgarr

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

The change was made to balance the abilities high single target damage?

Lol what the heck has that got to do with not being able to cast any heals straight afterwards?

Seriously, do you lot actually bother to test what you put out?
Or when you do test it, do you actually have enough people play each class from different countries?
Playing in Europe is bad enough for the delay from only having one server based in the states (still unreal for a game this costly it wasn't implemented prior to launch) but to go and add this delay in, lol this is becoming a comedy of errors that not even the great Monty Python team could create a sketch about anything close to this farcical development team.

Seriously, we paid good money to so far be treated poorly, stop this rot now, before you become SWTOR 2.0, they said it wouldn't happen and yet it did.
Learn by others mistakes, listen to those who actually know what works (us those who play the game)

Any of your dev team don't like the cold hard facts, remind them of one major thing, if this game fails we (the paying customers will still have jobs)
Think about it....

Sev

grizzbi wrote: »

I'm a templar. I want this skill to be nerfed. I don't want my class to be balanced around this skill. It's still OP in PVE. This single ability works better than 4 or 5 combined. If you want to be a one trick poney in PvE, you can still spam it..you just need to use another OP skill with it like Volcanic rune. Or even Magnum shot or anything else..Smashing 2 buttons is not difficult.

People should stop to wear only light armor. They should try hybrid builds or even stamina builds. Those ones need attention. For more diversity...

That doesn't mean biting jabs is OP. It means the other skills are complete and utter horker-dung. To determine whether something is OP, you have to compare it to other classes' abilities as well, and by that measure it is nothing special.

Azphira

Elgarr wrote: »

Any of your dev team don't like the cold hard facts, remind them of one major thing, if this game fails we (the paying customers will still have jobs)
Think about it....

They will still have jobs. They will let them make a crappy Fallout Online.

Where it will take 10 fatboy shots to kill a mole rat. And people will be raging about bobble head bugs. And mobs will drop 1-4 bottle caps. And Mr. Gutsy's won't be the only bots in the game....

zgrssd

dermottib14_ESO wrote: »

I dont know if its jsut me, but it seems to be a huge delay between castings of it. I used to be able to jsut spam it.

Now it feels like there is a .5-1 secon delay between casts?

can somone else tesT?

They did indeed and forgot to Document it:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100211/patch-notes-v1-1-2#latest
And they will change it again with the next patch.

One additional addendum for the Templar skill Biting Jabs:

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

terence.caroneb17_ESO

"This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage"

Have you realized this is the ONLY melee dps skill of the templar ? Do you know its damage is nothing until you get a debuff on the mob or it gets under 25% health ?

This is NOT an OP ability, whether you talk about single or multiple targets damage. Dragonknights, Sorcerers, Nightblade have higher single dps abilities. You're making EVERY dps templar wanting to leave the game since the Craglorn patch, and if you go on with nerfing Biting Jabs (which by the way has never been criticized by any player whatsoever, from all classes), you're gonna lose a ton of subs.
It's not an ultimatum, it's just a fact, you're screwing up your game, and the players with it.

Mephos

so today was the patch, did you refert the changes like you said in your comment for this topic? (you said in the nearest patch)

Reinmard

grizzbi wrote: »

I'm a templar. I want this skill to be nerfed. I don't want my class to be balanced around this skill. It's still OP in PVE. This single ability works better than 4 or 5 combined. If you want to be a one trick poney in PvE, you can still spam it..you just need to use another OP skill with it like Volcanic rune. Or even Magnum shot or anything else..Smashing 2 buttons is not difficult.

People should stop to wear only light armor. They should try hybrid builds or even stamina builds. Those ones need attention. For more diversity...

That sounds theoretically great, the problem is we have all try that probably, and most of the templar skills just sucks, Why should I work on that while a sorcerer just goes everywhere with the last Destro skills spamming everyone and blahblah?