Why is the Bolt Escape change advanced ahead of the 1.2 class changes for everyone? And it is bugged

cjmarsh725b14_ESO · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Yusuf wrote: »

LOL SHE SNIPED ME

*pew-pew*

If the above explanation doesn't make sense or you're experience doesn't align, let us know.

First of all, I don't object to the way it's been implemented or have any problem with it, I'm just curious about the logic behind it.

It's as if after using the ability all your clothing was removed and your skill points reset, then the debuff with the swirling lightning graphic is applied (which looks cool btw), and then you get dressed again and put your skill points back before bolt escaping again. How come it's calculated that way instead of 50% of what your current magicka cost is?

Amerigo · June 2014

Yusuf wrote: »

Ok i just created a craglorn-template-character on the pts and only maxed magicka with no passives whatsoever.
Basecost was 358, the increase was 179 which made the second cast cost 537.
On that end the 50% works, now to the reduction part:
I added all the passives and stuff and (suprise!) the cost was back down to 240.
The cost of the second cast however was 418, which means: The 50% increase doesn't get reduced at all.

240+179=419

The 50% increase isn't meant to be "reduced" by anything. It is simply added to your hidden stat (as it doesnt appear among your other character stats) "magicka cost reduction"

In your example, your character seems to have a 33% cost reduction which then become 33%-50%=-17%

First cast : 358*0.67=240
Second cast : 358*1.17=419

Did you read my first comment at all? or was it simply not clear?

Yusuf · June 2014

Amerigo wrote: »

Yusuf wrote: »

Ok i just created a craglorn-template-character on the pts and only maxed magicka with no passives whatsoever.
Basecost was 358, the increase was 179 which made the second cast cost 537.
On that end the 50% works, now to the reduction part:
I added all the passives and stuff and (suprise!) the cost was back down to 240.
The cost of the second cast however was 418, which means: The 50% increase doesn't get reduced at all.

240+179=419

The 50% increase isn't meant to be "reduced" by anything. It is simply added to your hidden stat (as it doesnt appear among your other character stats) "magicka cost reduction"

In your example, your character seems to have a 33% cost reduction which then become 33%-50%=-17%

First cast : 358*0.67=240
Second cast : 358*1.17=419

Did you read my first comment at all? or was it simply not clear?

As far as i know 21+15+3 equals 39 and not 42 so i had to take things in my own hands....
Or maybe i misunderstood @ZoS_JessicaFolsom when she wrote that the 50% WILL be reduced by passives such as evocation?
Here for reference:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

English may not be my native language but i am fairly sure i did understand her correctly

Edit: Now i'm doubting myself xD

Kalanar Highwatch · June 2014

Jessica's explanation makes sense. Bonuses (and penalties) are additive. So if you have 25% cost reduction from your equipment you subtract that 25% reduction from the 50% increase and you get a 25% increase. They are adding 50% to the base cost, not 50% to your actual cost to cast it.

To make it really easy to understand, Assume you have a base cost of 10. If you have no cost reduction gear equipped, your second cast would cost 15. Now assume you have 20% cost reduction from bonuses and gear. Your first case would cost 8, so you might expect your second to cost only 12. However, the way it really works is they take the base cost of 10 and modifying it by +50% less your 20% reduction for a net increase of 30%. So your second cast would be 10 x 130% = 13.

Amerigo · June 2014

Yusuf wrote: »

As far as i know 21+15+3 equals 39 and not 42 so i had to take things in my own hands....

Sorry, I was taking the seducer set 3% bonus into account but forgot to mention it.

After reading @ZoS_JessicaFolsom's message again i understand your confusion.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative).

This part was clear.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

This part wasn't.

Asava · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Yusuf wrote: »

LOL SHE SNIPED ME

*pew-pew*

If the above explanation doesn't make sense or you're experience doesn't align, let us know.

So the double penalty of regen stop and usage penalty tied to one tier 5 ability is intended? Good luck keeping subscribers since the ability wasn't adjusted to remove the penalties nor was the range adjusted so that it could be used once as a gap extender which it attempts to be. BE has to be casted at least twice to get out of gap closer range as it is. That's why it's spammed so much. The range is insufficient to be an escape ability. All gap closers have a range of 22m which is 7m more than BE has. It has to be used 2x or more for it to do what it says it does.

Yusuf · June 2014

@Asava, actually the regen stop is only on the PTS, they didn't patch this on the live server (thank god). EDIT: At least the tooltip says so

It's kinda off though that the test-char i created had a cost of 418 on second cast and my main on the live server has 435 even though both cost 240 on the first cast

Yusuf · June 2014

Amerigo wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

This part wasn't.

Yea i kinda understood that the costreduction would apply to those 50% seperately but in the end it would come down to 120 magicka which is in fact nothing else then my actual cost in half ._.

PhoenixWing · June 2014

Amerigo wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

This part wasn't.

I think that part was also quite clear

at least that 50% is meant to be reduced by something, not the whole (base cost*0.5) like it currently is.

SilverWF · June 2014

That's why they hardly need to write extremely detailed patch notes and give to players everything they want to know about the game!

Open in API information about short buffs and source of incoming damage again! Why you are hided it? I can't understand it

Varicite · June 2014

It doesn't really matter (currently) if your character's magicka cost reduction is being applied before or after the 50% increase, because in the live game, the second cast always costs the base + 50% w/ no decrease whatsoever.

The ability is bugged, if it is supposed to be reduced AT ALL by cost reduction, because it isn't being reduced from base + 50% whatsoever currently.

Please fix.

galiumb16_ESO · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

There is a ton of posts on this topic. I fail to understand why you would make a post saying it is working fine, without actually addressing what everyone keeps posting about. If it is working fine, then you should be able to explain why based on the context they keep providing you.

o_0 · June 2014

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom At least say "We are looking into it."

Vis · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Yusuf wrote: »

LOL SHE SNIPED ME

*pew-pew*

If the above explanation doesn't make sense or you're experience doesn't align, let us know.

Furthermore, the regeneration penalty after casting bolt still exists (they forgot to remove it after they changed the penalty to 50‰).

So for each bolt my magicka regeneration is decreased for the 4 second duration.

Can we get an eta on when this will be fixed?

jeradlub17_ESO · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

Thank you for responding Jessica. After looking at @Amerigo's explanation of the math it makes more sense but this was still a jacked up way to implement it. So that it makes sense with what you see in the tooltip they should have just had it add 50% of your original cast cost after all the reductions were applied so it is visually apparent to be a 50% increase without having to sit down with pen and paper to figure how and where they are adding 50% like they did. regardless it still amounts to larger than a 50% penalty in the end due to their method and worse the penalty % size will be variable due to the way and point at which they have chosen to implement it. Personally I would still consider this a bug in the sense that the end result is not in line with the original stated intention of a 50% cost increase due tot he point at which they chose to apply it.

In addition I feel they made a huge mistake in pushing this early. If they were going to push something early it should have been the CC immunity changes as that would have eliminated the complaints of the one BE morph Streak with stun+damage being used as a weapon. See how that affects it THEN decide if the cost increase was needed still. People escaping was never the real problem except for whiners that feel entitled to kill all they see. The real problem was the stun morph.

One thing I would like to ask you to ask the devs to look in to is if this change is affecting our power consumption in general on other spells even though it isn't supposed to. Ever since they implemented this I have not been able to cast as many spells of ANY type and constantly have an empty power bar even when NOT casting BE or removing it from the skill bar. The only change on my character has been this BE change. If all I hit are damage spells they still seem to consume more power since this change despite no changes in tooltip costs appearing as if it is in the background somewhere. Other players I have talked to have had the same experience. If you could have them look in to this I would appreciate it.

Vis · June 2014

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

Thank you for responding Jessica. After looking at @Amerigo's explanation of the math it makes more sense but this was still a jacked up way to implement it. So that it makes sense with what you see in the tooltip they should have just had it add 50% of your original cast cost after all the reductions were applied so it is visually apparent to be a 50% increase without having to sit down with pen and paper to figure how and where they are adding 50% like they did. regardless it still amounts to larger than a 50% penalty in the end due to their method and worse the penalty % size will be variable due to the way and point at which they have chosen to implement it. Personally I would still consider this a bug in the sense that the end result is not in line with the original stated intention of a 50% cost increase due tot he point at which they chose to apply it.

In addition I feel they made a huge mistake in pushing this early. If they were going to push something early it should have been the CC immunity changes as that would have eliminated the complaints of the one BE morph Streak with stun+damage being used as a weapon. See how that affects it THEN decide if the cost increase was needed still. People escaping was never the real problem except for whiners that feel entitled to kill all they see. The real problem was the stun morph.

One thing I would like to ask you to ask the devs to look in to is if this change is affecting our power consumption in general on other spells even though it isn't supposed to. Ever since they implemented this I have not been able to cast as many spells of ANY type and constantly have an empty power bar even when NOT casting BE or removing it from the skill bar. The only change on my character has been this BE change. If all I hit are damage spells they still seem to consume more power since this change despite no changes in tooltip costs appearing as if it is in the background somewhere. Other players I have talked to have had the same experience. If you could have them look in to this I would appreciate it.

^I second this.

The LEAST they could have done is give us the new dark deal when they uber nerfed our mobility. But hey, why not *** off more than 25% of your subscribers with pure Nerfs, regeneration bugs, and awful tool tips?

ishilb14_ESO · June 2014

My cost with full light armor is 251, my cost within the 4 second cooldown is 406. That's roughly a 62% increase. My cost without any light armor on 305, and 406 would only be 33% more than that. Stupid stuff like devs not being able to do simple math is the reason I've canceled my subscription; they don't listen to anyone's complaints except the bottom 5% so this is the only other way I can tell them I'm unhappy that they aren't fixing the million and one problems in this game. This game should have been released in August after extensive testing. Right now I feel like I'm paying to beta test this game.

Kiwi · June 2014

the way the game randomly does not recognise gear traits at all makes it hard to test anything accurately

PhoenixWing · June 2014

I had believe that although they do not always reply, devs and community managers read every post... until this latest reply, it is clear that she did not read any of the posts here.

I really love this game, but the devs failed me several times already. It is not exaggerating to say that we can find bugs in 10-20% of what patch notes said. 1.1.4 Bolt escape, craglorn patch's Endless Fury, Thief mundus stone, impulse skill refund, etc. Not to mention hidden fixes/changes that are not stated in the patch note.

QA team, please work harder! lol

P.S. Although this is not stated in the patch note, it seems that the Thief mundus stone display for spell crits was fixed with the last patch too! yay!

onlinegamer1 · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

This is false/bugged. Reduction is currently NOT, repeat, NOT affecting 50% increase.

Please fix asap.

FunkyBudda · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

if the formula is working correctly, the scary part is certain gears and passive skills are not working correctly then.

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

This is false/bugged. Reduction is currently NOT, repeat, NOT affecting 50% increase.

Please fix asap.

at best, some passives and reduction are working, but others are not. Combine with other bugged issues, their formula is only good on paper, or on a character without any gears on.

This is what happens when they don't have a reliable QA team and try to rush out please the angry mobs, pathetic and epic fail at that.

Amerigo · June 2014

Varicite wrote: »

It doesn't really matter (currently) if your character's magicka cost reduction is being applied before or after the 50% increase, because in the live game, the second cast always costs the base + 50% w/ no decrease whatsoever.

The ability is bugged, if it is supposed to be reduced AT ALL by cost reduction, because it isn't being reduced from base + 50% whatsoever currently.

Please fix.

Once again, the 50% increase isnt applied neither after nor before magicka cost reduction. It is added TO your magicka cost reduction.

You simply get an additionnal cost of 50% of the base cost in the same way you are getting a decreased cost of 21% of the base cost for wearing a set of light armor.

Whether this value is reasonable or not is a different matter but the skill is NOT bugged.

Vis · June 2014

Tripp3r wrote: »

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

Why in the world has ESO applied the BE change in game now ahead of all the other class changes announced to come in patch 1.2? So all we get is the nerf and none of the beneficial changes? Why not apply everyone's changes all at once? Not only that it is bugged. My first cast is 239 and the 2nd is costing me 425. That is more than the 50% increase stated in the tip. Instead it is applying a 78% increase. The 2nd cast should have only been 359. They overnerfed it.

I would like to see patch notes for 6/9 showing what has actually been changed.

All i'm reading is "I wanted a few more weeks of my bull**** ability"
"I can't believe the thing i was exploiting to gain an unfair advantage over players is being removed"
"I deserve this ability, and this is what I want"
and than he tries to rope it all in with "why can't we all change togeather"
**** off.
sincerely, an Australian.

Sooooo, I must have killed you one too many times on my sorc I guess.

Vis · June 2014

Amerigo wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

It doesn't really matter (currently) if your character's magicka cost reduction is being applied before or after the 50% increase, because in the live game, the second cast always costs the base + 50% w/ no decrease whatsoever.

The ability is bugged, if it is supposed to be reduced AT ALL by cost reduction, because it isn't being reduced from base + 50% whatsoever currently.

Please fix.

Once again, the 50% increase isnt applied neither after nor before magicka cost reduction. It is added TO your magicka cost reduction.

You simply get an additionnal cost of 50% of the base cost in the same way you are getting a decreased cost of 21% of the base cost for wearing a set of light armor.

Whether this value is reasonable or not is a different matter but the skill is NOT bugged.

Yes, it is working. However, it's implementation is absolutely horrible. And they should have at Least been clearer on the patch notes.

However, the skill IS bugged because the regeneration nerf is still applying for the 4 seconds after each cast.

Mystborn · June 2014

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

Why in the world has ESO applied the BE change in game now ahead of all the other class changes announced to come in patch 1.2? So all we get is the nerf and none of the beneficial changes? Why not apply everyone's changes all at once? Not only that it is bugged. My first cast is 239 and the 2nd is costing me 425. That is more than the 50% increase stated in the tip. Instead it is applying a 78% increase. The 2nd cast should have only been 359. They overnerfed it.

I would like to see patch notes for 6/9 showing what has actually been changed.

The 50% increase to cost is applied at the same level as any other % based cost increase or decrease.

Base cost of Bolt Escape is 392

Your first cast of Bolt Escape will cost:

(392 - x) * (1-y)

Where x is your static SCR (from jewelry) and y is your % SCR (passives, seducer, etc.)

Your second cast of Bolt Escape will cost:

(392 - x) * (1-y+0.5)

So basically when you're naked you have 15% SCR from sorc passives right?

First cast = 392 * (1 - 0.15) = 392 * 0.85 = 333
Second cast = 392 * (1 - 0.15 + 0.50) = 392 * 1.35 = 529

For the OP I'm goingto assume by your posted numbers you had a ring of -19 SCR, 7/7 light armour (21%), and the 2 sorc passives (15%)

First cast = (392 - 19) * (1 - 0.36) = 373 * 0.64 = 239
Second cast = (392 - 19) * (1 - 0.36 +0.50) = 373 * 1.14 = 414

Working as intended...

Mystborn · June 2014

FunkyBudda wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

if the formula is working correctly, the scary part is certain gears and passive skills are not working correctly then.

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

The changes we recently made to Bolt Escape were intended, and the ability is not bugged. Here is a brief explanation of the Bolt Escape cost increase:

All bonuses in our game are additive (not multiplicative). After using Bolt Escape, if you cast it again within 4 seconds of the last time you cast Bolt Escape, the next use costs 50% more Magicka. Any bonuses you have that grant a reduction to Magicka cost--such as Evocation--also reduce the 50% increase to Bolt Escape.

This is false/bugged. Reduction is currently NOT, repeat, NOT affecting 50% increase.

Please fix asap.

at best, some passives and reduction are working, but others are not. Combine with other bugged issues, their formula is only good on paper, or on a character without any gears on.

This is what happens when they don't have a reliable QA team and try to rush out please the angry mobs, pathetic and epic fail at that.

It works for any configuration, if you don't feel the formula is working for you you're probably forgetting something.

What's your current static and % based SCR?

crislevin · June 2014

Mystborn wrote: »

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

Why in the world has ESO applied the BE change in game now ahead of all the other class changes announced to come in patch 1.2? So all we get is the nerf and none of the beneficial changes? Why not apply everyone's changes all at once? Not only that it is bugged. My first cast is 239 and the 2nd is costing me 425. That is more than the 50% increase stated in the tip. Instead it is applying a 78% increase. The 2nd cast should have only been 359. They overnerfed it.

I would like to see patch notes for 6/9 showing what has actually been changed.

The 50% increase to cost is applied at the same level as any other % based cost increase or decrease.

Base cost of Bolt Escape is 392

Your first cast of Bolt Escape will cost:

(392 - x) * (1-y)

Where x is your static SCR (from jewelry) and y is your % SCR (passives, seducer, etc.)

Your second cast of Bolt Escape will cost:

(392 - x) * (1-y+0.5)

So basically when you're naked you have 15% SCR from sorc passives right?

First cast = 392 * (1 - 0.15) = 392 * 0.85 = 333
Second cast = 392 * (1 - 0.15 + 0.50) = 392 * 1.35 = 529

For the OP I'm goingto assume by your posted numbers you had a ring of -19 SCR, 7/7 light armour (21%), and the 2 sorc passives (15%)

First cast = (392 - 19) * (1 - 0.36) = 373 * 0.64 = 239
Second cast = (392 - 19) * (1 - 0.36 +0.50) = 373 * 1.14 = 414

Working as intended...

you expect players to run a math down a page rather than checking the tooltip?

what is this? elder math class quiz?

and fact is, your fancy math aside, its simply ridiculous to ask a sorc spend 700+ magicka to be outside ONE cast of a gap closer.

Francescolg · June 2014

Imo, the nurf was not hard enough! Despite of all the whining of the fotm-class rollers!
Bolt Escape can still be chain-casted to get out of most 1v1 / 1vsX open battle situations The skill cost is still too affordable, given all the possibilities to reggen Magicka, Balance, Magicka-Pots, etc. etc.

Just 4xx Mana for the next Bolt Escape is not sufficient, cause ppl can easily find out ways to live with it and still abuse Bolt Escape (I'm not talking about the mages complaining here!)

You can a) Just sprint the 4 seconds away, or b) find out very efficient ways to quickly restore Magicka and to get another 2-3 Bolt Escapes and more!

It is any thing other than difficult to adapt to the new Bolt Escape, and Bolt Escape will still be used 3, 4 consecutive times to escape as good as any enemy in PvP, you just have to drink a potion for another 2+x bolt escapes (not to mention vampires, etc.etc), or to trade HP for Magicka.
What they nurfed now will just make some Mages smile and adapt very fastly.

cf398ub17_ESO · June 2014

i am a sorc and i am glad it was nerfed it was so annoying watching people bolt escape around the map and by map i mean cyro

Mystborn · June 2014

I think it's reasonable for people who care how much their spells cost to take a quick moment to learn how the cost of their spells is determined. You don't need to "run a math down a page" to figure it out, just realise that all the % based increases and decreases are all combined into one net increase/decrease.

For any situation without an increase in cost this methodology results in the lowest cost for players.