Road ahead: Class balance.

Sunrock · June 2014

The Dragonknight is still a bit stronger than intended, and we’ll be making some small changes over time to the class. Our intent—no matter what you read on the internet—is not to nerf DKs into Oblivion (so to speak), but to continue tweaking them until they are in line with the survivability of the other classes.

We also know that Nightblades are reporting they are underpowered. I know all about this, as my main character is a Nightblade, and I’ve been running into some of these same issues myself. Again, just like the DK, we’re not going to make wholesale changes quickly; instead, we’re going to make small, incremental adjustments until NB class abilities fall in line with other class abilities.

Also, I sincerely apologize for not having the Biting Jabs change documented in a patch note when Update 1 went live. This was an oversight, not a nefarious omission by design. We have clearly documented many other ability nerfs in the past—we just missed this one in the massive Update 1 patch.

I could have agreed with this before 1.1 aka the Craglorn patch. However I do not see this problems anyomore. The DK class abilities are not too strong and the NB class abilities is not underpowered anymore. Well some of the NB skills does still not work as described in the tool tip through.

And regarding the jab nerf. It was not that bad. However if you do extend a casting time on a skill like the jab you also need to change the animation of the jab or it will feel clunky to use. This was the biggest problem with the change. So changing cast time also equal changing animation.

What the road a head should have addressed is that stamina melee builds are crap in veteran rank content forcing every class to go light armor with restoration staff and destruction staff with all there points into magica if you want to solo VR ++ solo over world quests. Also that stamina is double dipping as skill resource, dodge resource and block resource.

VlVEC · June 2014

>Road a head

Phantorang · June 2014

I disagree, the DKs and Sorcs are still able to kill 12+ trash mobs and immidiately move on to gather more trash mobs to AoE without any risk of dying, infact the more trash mobs, the better and easier. Please NERF

mndfreeze · June 2014

VlVEC wrote: »

>Road head

Fixed for its awesomeness.

Dagus · June 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

The Dragonknight is still a bit stronger than intended, and we’ll be making some small changes over time to the class. Our intent—no matter what you read on the internet—is not to nerf DKs into Oblivion (so to speak), but to continue tweaking them until they are in line with the survivability of the other classes.

We also know that Nightblades are reporting they are underpowered. I know all about this, as my main character is a Nightblade, and I’ve been running into some of these same issues myself. Again, just like the DK, we’re not going to make wholesale changes quickly; instead, we’re going to make small, incremental adjustments until NB class abilities fall in line with other class abilities.

Also, I sincerely apologize for not having the Biting Jabs change documented in a patch note when Update 1 went live. This was an oversight, not a nefarious omission by design. We have clearly documented many other ability nerfs in the past—we just missed this one in the massive Update 1 patch.

I could have agreed with this before 1.1 aka the Craglorn patch. However I do not see this problems anyomore. The DK class abilities are not too strong and the NB class abilities is not underpowered anymore. Well some of the NB skills does still not work as described in the tool tip through.

And regarding the jab nerf. It was not that bad. However if you do extend a casting time on a skill like the jab you also need to change the animation of the jab or it will feel clunky to use. This was the biggest problem with the change. So changing cast time also equal changing animation.

What the road a head should have addressed is that stamina melee builds are crap in veteran rank content forcing every class to go light armor with restoration staff and destruction staff with all there points into magica if you want to solo VR ++ solo over world quests. Also that stamina is double dipping as skill resource, dodge resource and block resource.

first, i must tell you just to keep your post professional looking, ahead is 1 word.

2nd, i can't speak on behalf of DKs, i have one lv36 but i don't play it, i've been playing my NB

3rd, I'll say this, I have not done enough real dungeons or pvp to really determine what is OP or not, but i believe if they have a whole team of people who apparently play the game, they must all play different classes and must then come to some consensus on what is appropriate for buffs and nerfs. I say let them do their thing and we'll complain later or praise them later. we'll see. i'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they know a little of what to do

4th, i believe this is something many people agree on in regards to stamina. the triple (not double.. example : weapon skills, dodge/block, run [arguably 4 but w/e]) dipping of stamina is silly. I wouldn't say its outrageous and ruins the game, but it is a bad concept that i hope to see tweaked.

jfk · June 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

I could have agreed with this before 1.1 aka the Craglorn patch. However I do not see this problems anyomore. The DK class abilities are not too strong and the NB class abilities is not underpowered anymore. Well some of the NB skills does still not work as described in the tool tip through.

And regarding the jab nerf. It was not that bad. However if you do extend a casting time on a skill like the jab you also need to change the animation of the jab or it will feel clunky to use. This was the biggest problem with the change. So changing cast time also equal changing animation.

What the road a head should have addressed is that stamina melee builds are crap in veteran rank content forcing every class to go light armor with restoration staff and destruction staff with all there points into magica if you want to solo VR ++ solo over world quests. Also that stamina is double dipping as skill resource, dodge resource and block resource.

well, its quite obviouse that you play a DK as your main ...
so your saying DK is good as it is, NB is actually not so bad and should not be changed and the templar should be nerfed again and the animations should be as slow to cover the "cooldown".

what i wonder is:
what about the sorcerer, would it not be nicer if we make them also a little worse so your feel even more brilliant in cyrodil?

seriously mate, the nightblade is a victim i could kill most of times even without even playing one and knowing their skills. it just feels to easy ...

the jab nerf was not a big issue in pvp it was rather annoying in pve against groups in veteran content.

hamon · June 2014

heres where the road ahead is going

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWtCittJyr0

SilverWF · June 2014

Phantorang wrote: »

I disagree, the DKs and Sorcs are still able to kill 12+ trash mobs and immidiately move on to gather more trash mobs to AoE without any risk of dying, infact the more trash mobs, the better and easier. Please NERF

Nerf Dks and Sorcs will not help to you to deal with packs of mobs.

Nitratas · June 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

The Dragonknight is still a bit stronger than intended, and we’ll be making some small changes over time to the class. Our intent—no matter what you read on the internet—is not to nerf DKs into Oblivion (so to speak), but to continue tweaking them until they are in line with the survivability of the other classes.

We also know that Nightblades are reporting they are underpowered. I know all about this, as my main character is a Nightblade, and I’ve been running into some of these same issues myself. Again, just like the DK, we’re not going to make wholesale changes quickly; instead, we’re going to make small, incremental adjustments until NB class abilities fall in line with other class abilities.

Also, I sincerely apologize for not having the Biting Jabs change documented in a patch note when Update 1 went live. This was an oversight, not a nefarious omission by design. We have clearly documented many other ability nerfs in the past—we just missed this one in the massive Update 1 patch.

I could have agreed with this before 1.1 aka the Craglorn patch. However I do not see this problems anyomore. The DK class abilities are not too strong and the NB class abilities is not underpowered anymore. Well some of the NB skills does still not work as described in the tool tip through.

And regarding the jab nerf. It was not that bad. However if you do extend a casting time on a skill like the jab you also need to change the animation of the jab or it will feel clunky to use. This was the biggest problem with the change. So changing cast time also equal changing animation.

What the road a head should have addressed is that stamina melee builds are crap in veteran rank content forcing every class to go light armor with restoration staff and destruction staff with all there points into magica if you want to solo VR ++ solo over world quests. Also that stamina is double dipping as skill resource, dodge resource and block resource.

Totally agree that stamina builds have to be addressed because as of now, they're practically useless.

I disagree about your comments about class balance issues. Have you at least played other class other than DK in pvp? The ultimate is way too strong compared to other classes and costs the same amount, the rotation is basically the same and you can easily roflstop through every fight - shield charge, talons, whip whip, some standards and everyone melts around you.
I suppose you're just playing a DK and seeing no problem about that

Maulkin · June 2014

The Dragonknight is still a bit stronger than intended, and we’ll be making some small changes over time to the class. Our intent—no matter what you read on the internet—is not to nerf DKs into Oblivion (so to speak), but to continue tweaking them until they are in line with the survivability of the other classes.

How the hell do you know that? You just nerfed it a week ago and put more nerfs in the next release which is currently on PTS.

Maybe just calm your t*ts a little bit, until people get a chance to play the class and see where it stands.

Post 1.2 my DK S&B tank feels nothing like OP. When I put a dress on and equip a flame staff, that's when I wreak havoc. Maybe have a look at the dress+staff combo a bit, instead of just class abilities?

Lunerdog · June 2014

They should be concentrating on balancing the outrageously overpowered mobs, not the classes.

zgrssd · June 2014

Lunerdog wrote: »

They should be concentrating on balancing the outrageously overpowered mobs, not the classes.

How could they balance the mobs, if they do not have balanced classes? What would be the target? How would they know they met the target if they don't have balanced classes to test against?

Class balance affects PvE and PvP equally, so naturally they go for that one first. Then comes mobs and/or stamina viability.

Sunrock · June 2014

Phantorang wrote: »

I disagree, the DKs and Sorcs are still able to kill 12+ trash mobs and immidiately move on to gather more trash mobs to AoE without any risk of dying, infact the more trash mobs, the better and easier. Please NERF

Never played a Sorc but as a DK you do not use any DK skills when you do that. So in reality any class can do that as long as you are not using any class skills.

Sunrock · June 2014

jfk wrote: »

Sunrock wrote: »

I could have agreed with this before 1.1 aka the Craglorn patch. However I do not see this problems anyomore. The DK class abilities are not too strong and the NB class abilities is not underpowered anymore. Well some of the NB skills does still not work as described in the tool tip through.

And regarding the jab nerf. It was not that bad. However if you do extend a casting time on a skill like the jab you also need to change the animation of the jab or it will feel clunky to use. This was the biggest problem with the change. So changing cast time also equal changing animation.

What the road a head should have addressed is that stamina melee builds are crap in veteran rank content forcing every class to go light armor with restoration staff and destruction staff with all there points into magica if you want to solo VR ++ solo over world quests. Also that stamina is double dipping as skill resource, dodge resource and block resource.

well, its quite obviouse that you play a DK as your main ...
so your saying DK is good as it is, NB is actually not so bad and should not be changed and the templar should be nerfed again and the animations should be as slow to cover the "cooldown".

what i wonder is:
what about the sorcerer, would it not be nicer if we make them also a little worse so your feel even more brilliant in cyrodil?

seriously mate, the nightblade is a victim i could kill most of times even without even playing one and knowing their skills. it just feels to easy ...

the jab nerf was not a big issue in pvp it was rather annoying in pve against groups in veteran content.

FYI I have a lv VR 12 Templar, VR 3 NB and a VR 1 DK.

Ragekniv · June 2014

Can Templars get a little loving!

Only class to have resource mechanic completely removed out of Beta! Weakest DPS class and still getting nerfed instead of buffed.

NBs and Templars have been broken since Beta! DKs and Sorcs have been the OP FOTM for three months too long!

I'm tired of stealthing past packs of more than three mobs. I'd like to feel a little OP too!

Zenimax has made clear by their actions that the road ahead to class balance will occur in the negative of nerfing.

Balancing in the negative by nerfing only polarizes and alienates the player base. It does not help in making whole the classes who remain broken!

Rub it, touch it, love it... I don't care... just Buff us... buff us now please!

Soloeus · June 2014

Phantorang wrote: »

I disagree, the DKs and Sorcs are still able to kill 12+ trash mobs and immidiately move on to gather more trash mobs to AoE without any risk of dying, infact the more trash mobs, the better and easier. Please NERF

No they aren't. Elite Players are, and there are NB's and Templars who do it too. Most Sorcs don't do that. You are throwing the dart at the wrong target.

What makes Sorcs good is the ability to perform its own DPS to CC'd monsters. I usually take about 5 minutes to kill a V4 mob and I am V6 Sorcerer. I also am just an average player who only has blue items.

So just because a few of the players (likely the ones who exploited resto vamp sorc bats because of Akavari Dragon Set, and got to V10 with hundreds of stacks of gold items from exploiting boss farms and hirelings) might make it look easy doesn't mean it is.

Catches_the_Sun · June 2014

Sunrock wrote: »

What the road a head should have addressed is that stamina melee builds are crap in veteran rank content forcing every class to go light armor with restoration staff and destruction staff with all there points into magica if you want to solo VR ++ solo over world quests. Also that stamina is double dipping as skill resource, dodge resource and block resource.

While I disagree with everything else, I do agree with this little nugget. Stamina builds are just terrible for PvE. The biggest issue is the blocking cost. I have 2 different DK's. I have a VR1 light armor destro staff DK & a level 38 med armor 2H DK. Whenever I approach a group of 3 mobs in PvE on either character, it's hold block while doing instant abilities. With the LA destro staff DK, he drains stamina quick from the blocking, but he's able to use his abilities & burn everything down using AoE magicka abilities. The 2H DK is a different story, draining his most important resource from blocking, then trying to kill the mobs 1 at a time. If they are all 3 melee mobs, the stamina will be gone in a couple of seconds.

I'm sure they're just as bad in PvP, but until I get my own there, I won't comment on that.

Phantorang · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

Phantorang wrote: »

I disagree, the DKs and Sorcs are still able to kill 12+ trash mobs and immidiately move on to gather more trash mobs to AoE without any risk of dying, infact the more trash mobs, the better and easier. Please NERF

Nerf Dks and Sorcs will not help to you to deal with packs of mobs.

So lets buff Templars to also be able to AoE 12+ mob packs without any risk and resources at full when done? Then you completely misunderstand what I want, which is balance between the classes. Being able to AoE and kill everything PvE isnt my idea of a well balanced Templar, its not my idea of a well balanced Sorc and DK either.

Sorcs and DKs shouldnt be able to solo public dungeons, they are meant to be done with other players, when DK and Sorc are able to solo them, and even some parts of Craglorn 12 man dungeon, its not a balanced class and is way beyond the power they are meant to have.

Templar doesnt need very much, but a few of the damage abilities need a boost, meaning shorter animation, or higher damage. So nerf Sorc/DKs, boost Templar, meet at a place where all classes got about same potential DPS.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

Being a templar and not being mentioned makes me sad ... not.

I will wait and see , if the devs think templars are fine :P , then i will be fine playing something else lols.

Phantorang · June 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

Phantorang wrote: »

I disagree, the DKs and Sorcs are still able to kill 12+ trash mobs and immidiately move on to gather more trash mobs to AoE without any risk of dying, infact the more trash mobs, the better and easier. Please NERF

No they aren't. Elite Players are, and there are NB's and Templars who do it too. Most Sorcs don't do that. You are throwing the dart at the wrong target.

What makes Sorcs good is the ability to perform its own DPS to CC'd monsters. I usually take about 5 minutes to kill a V4 mob and I am V6 Sorcerer. I also am just an average player who only has blue items.

So just because a few of the players (likely the ones who exploited resto vamp sorc bats because of Akavari Dragon Set, and got to V10 with hundreds of stacks of gold items from exploiting boss farms and hirelings) might make it look easy doesn't mean it is.

Then you dont know much about Sorcerer, have you tried Critical Surge? With Mage Light from mages guild you easily get 50% crit chance. Then when you do damage, you will crit 50% of the time. With Critical Surge you get 50% of the Crit damage you do, back in healing, which means the Sorc get more back in healing than they take in damage.

The more trash mobs, the better for the Sorc.

And Sorc got incredibly high single target DPS + BE, a recipe for Überness.
You are V6 and use 5 minutes or 5 sec to kill a V4 mob? Nobody use 5 min to kill 1 mob, least of all Sorcerer, actually I dont think you can do it if you tried.

Now explain to me how Templars solo 10+ trash mobs.