Game Policies at ZoS missing ; need a gamer not a producer running ZoS!

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO · June 2014

I'd say Matt and Paul should reconsider their effort to more strategic things and hijack someone from Dota development team to actually address balance, or any Moba for that matter. They seem to get balancing spot on. Or hijack someone from blizzard fer cryin out loud. If you can afford hollywood a-listers then surely you have enough money to hire someone like ghostcrawler?!?! There are so many simple balance things they can address without changing basic game design :

- Buff stamina abilities?
- Change/nerf light armor bonuses to something else?
- Buff certain weapons?
- Make is so meds and heavies are more logical to use?
- Nerf magicka abilities?
- Pay attention to spammable abilities?
- Discard itemsets that makes some skills feels 1-button-win?

I'm a sorcerer and I am kinda sick of spamming crystal fragments to be effective somewhat in cyrodiil. I want to play as a dual dagger with an in-your-face kind of stabstabstab and 2nd set involving a bow and my pets, a classic hunter archetype.

BUT I CANT, CAN I? You only have 4 (four/FOUR) classes to balance. Just pay a dedicated team to deliver what you lot promise : PLAY ANYHOWEVER YOU WANT and doesnt feel gimped.

Really sad ZoS, really really sad.

Mablung · June 2014

MOBA games and MMO games are like football and baseball. While I don't agree with the direction TESO is going, I would be more concerned if an unproven MOBA maker attempted to fix or create an MMO.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO · June 2014

Ok fine , not mobas then. There are many other MMOs where balance has been a relatively successful issue. I can only name WoW and GW2 as those are the ones I played for >2 yrs.

If that 200mill USD budget was proven correct, it would be so dumb not to invest a sliver of that budget on a competent class-balancing team

Drasn · June 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ok fine , not mobas then. There are many other MMOs where balance has been a relatively successful issue. I can only name WoW and GW2 as those are the ones I played for >2 yrs.

If that 200mill USD budget was proven correct, it would be so dumb not to invest a sliver of that budget on a competent class-balancing team

I'm sure they thought they had a competent team. However, I do agree with you, they need to bring in another team to redesign the resource management system. That fix alone will alleviate much of the problem, and make balancing armor skills and weapon lines to a desired level that much easier.

Mablung · June 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ok fine , not mobas then. There are many other MMOs where balance has been a relatively successful issue. I can only name WoW and GW2 as those are the ones I played for >2 yrs.

If that 200mill USD budget was proven correct, it would be so dumb not to invest a sliver of that budget on a competent class-balancing team

I agree with you and most here as well will too. The issue comes down to creative design and ego. Everyone who produces a new game (MMO or stand alone title) wants to be the next big thing. They want to come up with the next game changing idea.

Sadly, TESO has none of that. I see a bunch of ideas overlapping ideas overlapping ideas. Each one unfinished. How do you fix it? I can only think of one way and that is to go the route of Final Fantasy. Shelf it and come back when its finished. That will not happen however because the next big push is for console where the honey is so sweet they can taste it now.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

- Buff stamina abilities?
- Change/nerf light armor bonuses to something else?
- Buff certain weapons?
- Make is so meds and heavies are more logical to use?
- Nerf magicka abilities?
- Pay attention to spammable abilities?
- Discard itemsets that makes some skills feels 1-button-win?

I would have said nerf certain magical abilities, rather than all.
Also I would have said alter item sets that make some skills feel like 1 button win.

I probably disagree about which abilities/passives/weapons/gear as well, but as broad outlines go it's acceptable. But it's the details that are killer.

I don't PVP (because atm lag is too much at random periods) so PVE and questing is my focus, and I wouldn't want anything that kills that for me.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO · June 2014

What really pisses me off is that they seem to be more interested in pushing new stuff without fixing some core stuff first. I get that those doing things like 'the road ahead' bulletins are different to the team that squashes bugs and all, but cant they reshuffle their human assets for a while?

And how i love paul and matt appearing so frequently UP to launch, after which we literally never see them appear in these forums, and just a coupla hrs on reddit AMAs

Damage control, my friends, is the phrase you're lookin for, and not doin'

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2014

This sort of makes me giggle. I get it classes aren't balanced. But to claim that Blizzard and GW2 had balanced classes at 2 months after launch is at the very least amusing.

Stratti · June 2014

Perfect OP

jeff.shawb14_ESO · June 2014

In my opinion, ANY game that doesn't at LEAST hire a consulting team of GAMERS with a say-so in a game's development to oversee the cat-herding that it has become today is doomed to keep trying to invent a 4-sided wheel.

Hearts · June 2014

Im sorry but Ghostcrawler made Frost Mages so incredibly OP, then Arcane Mages, then Blood DKs, then Frost DKs (i think) and the list goes on.
Blizzard is a great company and all but Ghostcrawler was a terrible example :P

But other than that I agree with you, if they had at least consulted with the top players in leaderboards perhaps, they would have known that the big problem wasn't DKs or Nightblades, it was Staff and Light armor being OP compared to other weps and armor.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'd say Matt and Paul should reconsider their effort to more strategic things and hijack someone from Dota development team to actually address balance, or any Moba for that matter. They seem to get balancing spot on. Or hijack someone from blizzard fer cryin out loud. If you can afford hollywood a-listers then surely you have enough money to hire someone like ghostcrawler?!?! There are so many simple balance things they can address without changing basic game design :

- Buff stamina abilities?
- Change/nerf light armor bonuses to something else?
- Buff certain weapons?
- Make is so meds and heavies are more logical to use?
- Nerf magicka abilities?
- Pay attention to spammable abilities?
- Discard itemsets that makes some skills feels 1-button-win?

I'm a sorcerer and I am kinda sick of spamming crystal fragments to be effective somewhat in cyrodiil. I want to play as a dual dagger with an in-your-face kind of stabstabstab and 2nd set involving a bow and my pets, a classic hunter archetype.

BUT I CANT, CAN I? You only have 4 (four/FOUR) classes to balance. Just pay a dedicated team to deliver what you lot promise : PLAY ANYHOWEVER YOU WANT and doesnt feel gimped.

Really sad ZoS, really really sad.

Or hire Scott Hartsman and Craig Morrison. both learned the hard way and have multiple triple AAA MMO's under thier belts as game directors that are actually still going and have Sub options.Right now the Game is caster scrolls online.Even in PVE as well its not just cyrodil. if your not wearing a dress and using your class magica abilities with Destro Resto staff swap your not viable

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO · June 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

This sort of makes me giggle. I get it classes aren't balanced. But to claim that Blizzard and GW2 had balanced classes at 2 months after launch is at the very least amusing.

Didnt remember any mmo in recent years where most of the population is comprised of 2 out of 4 classes. Can you?

Never did I ask for an even good balance. I am merely pointing out that they are probably internally never THOUGHT about going in the right direction with class balances. I care less if a well-balanced game comes in 6 months or 12, at least if you're heading in the right direction, someday we will arrive there.

I dont think they are heading in the right direction yet, and it is becoming increasingly frustrating.

murklor007neb18_ESO · June 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ok fine , not mobas then. There are many other MMOs where balance has been a relatively successful issue. I can only name WoW and GW2 as those are the ones I played for >2 yrs.

Oh? Last time I checked, GW2 suffered the exact same issues as ESO does (and it has always done that to bigger or lesser degree). The GW2 Warrior is almost an exact parallel to the omnipotent ESO Dragonknight (pre vampire nerfs). Hell if anything the GW2 Warrior was even stronger before the health regen food was nerfed to the ground.

Last time I checked in dungeon runs Warrior dps is pretty much the only thing required. Dont have full zerker gear? Kick. Not at all that different from the ESO trial situation where only certain classes and combos are viable.

The only reason GW2 seemed to be considerably more diverse and "balanced" than ESO in terms of classes is because of WvW. Some classes are required in organized raids so they cant all be PvE warriors (incidently, stun-lock warrior was also one of the strongest classes next to Guardians of course). So people had to make choices, bring some diversity to raids. This doesnt exist in ESO at all, no class bring that "required" skill to the table. Some have great skills, but no one is a game changer.

Elementalists required for water fields - totally pointless class in PvE and never needed.
Guardians required for blast combos/AoE damage/support - totally pointless class in PvE next to the Warrior, but not a terrible choice at least.
Warrior - next to staff Guardian, the main battle force of a raid (HAMMERSTUN!!!) and the only class that dungeon runners wanted.
Mesmers - required a few in a raid and some abilities for dungeons (which could be bypassed by simple knowledge and skill).
Thieves - Lol at PvE Thieves. Useless. Good scouts/stealth gankers in WvW, nearly useless in raids (some really good ones was decent).
Necromancer - Staple of AoE damage in WvW raids but pointless in PvE.
Engineer - Useless at just about everything, no one wanted to be an engineer. Grenade spam pulled nice DPS, but was nothing compared to a Necromancer. Well, except when the new WvW map came and you could pull people off the edge of the islands, that was hilarious.

Oh and dont even get me started on the Ranger. That class was as broken as the NB is in ESO. It had *zero* purpose in PvE (the pet literally broke boss mechanics) and in PvP/WvW it was by far one of the weakest classes.

Soloeus · June 2014

In other words you want a stealthy dagger type and are mad you can't do that very well on your sorcerer. Try dragon knight.

Crystal Shards has a 1.7 cast time, easy to telegraph, easy to roll dodge or even walk backwards out of range to avoid.

Why is Shards the "go-to" for sorcerers? Maybe because its our ONLY THING that does any worthy damage at a distance. Mages Wrath is respectable only when the enemy is beneath 20% hp. Everything else seems to perform very little damage and effectiveness.

FrauPerchta · June 2014

I think Passives on Med and Heavy needs some love but otherwise my Med/Heavy characters play just fine in terms of their armor. My strongest character wears all Heavy yet uses mostly Class skills. (three Weapon skills)

Sihnfahl · June 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

But to claim that Blizzard and GW2 had balanced classes at 2 months after launch is at the very least amusing.

Here's the problem. How many years of other MMOs in a similar vein have there been?

Blizzard had the problem of being one of the first large-scale MMOs. (Not THE first, but one of the first.) They were starting from the ground floor.

ZOS has had a decade+ of being able to look at other games, the mistakes those devs made, the issues that have cropped up.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO · June 2014

I agree with posts above that wow and gw2 does have a lot of unbalanced classes, but here's my point : they were addressed/acknowledged/replied by the devs in forum/being solved RELATIVELY QUICKLY. Here? You know the answer yourselves.

Here was one prime example : the 'nerfed to the ground, baby' retadin incident in the DAYS of wotlk launch. Literally, us retadins have only 3 (three) days to basically steamroll everything before it gets noticed, and the 'op gap' is not as wide as it still is in eso.

Demira · June 2014

I wouldn't nerf it against the sorcerer's...its bad enough that the 1 strong spell that I am spamming crystal fragments that is worth a sh*t in spell casting. The rest is so damn weak that I'm get upset and sad when I listen to the night blades brag about their damn dps.
Sorcerers are supposed to be damage dealers ...damage dealer my butt.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2014

Sihnfahl wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

But to claim that Blizzard and GW2 had balanced classes at 2 months after launch is at the very least amusing.

Here's the problem. How many years of other MMOs in a similar vein have there been?

Blizzard had the problem of being one of the first large-scale MMOs. (Not THE first, but one of the first.) They were starting from the ground floor.

ZOS has had a decade+ of being able to look at other games, the mistakes those devs made, the issues that have cropped up.

And what is GW2 excuse. It was the second mmo that team made, and came out fairly recently. My point is no mmo i can think of has ever been balanced at this point in its life, heck even Aion which was a PVP focused game, wasn't balanced near launch.

Now as the OP pointed out his concern is he feels they are going in the wrong direction. Which is in my mind purely opinion.

SilverWF · June 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'd say Matt and Paul should reconsider their effort to more strategic things and hijack someone from Dota development team to actually address balance, or any Moba for that matter. They seem to get balancing spot on. Or hijack someone from blizzard fer cryin out loud. If you can afford hollywood a-listers then surely you have enough money to hire someone like ghostcrawler?!?! There are so many simple balance things they can address without changing basic game design :

- Buff stamina abilities?
- Change/nerf light armor bonuses to something else?
- Buff certain weapons?
- Make is so meds and heavies are more logical to use?
- Nerf magicka abilities?
- Pay attention to spammable abilities?
- Discard itemsets that makes some skills feels 1-button-win?

I'm a sorcerer and I am kinda sick of spamming crystal fragments to be effective somewhat in cyrodiil. I want to play as a dual dagger with an in-your-face kind of stabstabstab and 2nd set involving a bow and my pets, a classic hunter archetype.

BUT I CANT, CAN I? You only have 4 (four/FOUR) classes to balance. Just pay a dedicated team to deliver what you lot promise : PLAY ANYHOWEVER YOU WANT and doesnt feel gimped.

Really sad ZoS, really really sad.

blah-blah-blah, gimme teh WIN button, blah-blah-blah

What a reason to nerf magica? Just because u want it? Do you understand what after that someone will create the same topic but about nerf stamina and buff magica and what? Endless process

Also, I didn't see a reasons, preventing you from using duals. Also nerf of magicka will not helps you to take it but will force a lot of ppl just unsub from stipidly balanced game.

SilverWF · June 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with posts above that wow and gw2 does have a lot of unbalanced classes, but here's my point : they were addressed/acknowledged/replied by the devs in forum/being solved RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

Do not talk about unkonwn things ok?
Balancing in GW2 takes a long time. In GW2 also another mechanic.

murklor007neb18_ESO · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with posts above that wow and gw2 does have a lot of unbalanced classes, but here's my point : they were addressed/acknowledged/replied by the devs in forum/being solved RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

Do not talk about unkonwn things ok?
Balancing in GW2 takes a long time. In GW2 also another mechanic.

Indeed its not in any way balanced still.

The only things that took quicker to fix was developer introduced bugs (ZOS so far have been very slow with that).

Ah I remember the joys of the Mesmer Chaos Storm jump proc... They accidentally added a couple of zeros to the damage. Instead of tickling players for like 500 damage (at the average 20,000 HP) it did more in the vicinity of 50,000 damage for a few, rather hilarious, hours.

twev · June 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'd say Matt and Paul should reconsider their effort to more strategic things and hijack someone from Dota development team to actually address balance, or any Moba for that matter. They seem to get balancing spot on. Or hijack someone from blizzard fer cryin out loud. If you can afford hollywood a-listers then surely you have enough money to hire someone like ghostcrawler?!?! There are so many simple balance things they can address without changing basic game design :

- Buff stamina abilities?
- Change/nerf light armor bonuses to something else?
- Buff certain weapons?
- Make is so meds and heavies are more logical to use?
- Nerf magicka abilities?
- Pay attention to spammable abilities?
- Discard itemsets that makes some skills feels 1-button-win?

I'm a sorcerer and I am kinda sick of spamming crystal fragments to be effective somewhat in cyrodiil. I want to play as a dual dagger with an in-your-face kind of stabstabstab and 2nd set involving a bow and my pets, a classic hunter archetype.

BUT I CANT, CAN I? You only have 4 (four/FOUR) classes to balance. Just pay a dedicated team to deliver what you lot promise : PLAY ANYHOWEVER YOU WANT and doesnt feel gimped.

Really sad ZoS, really really sad.

Or hire Scott Hartsman and Craig Morrison. both learned the hard way and have multiple triple AAA MMO's under thier belts as game directors that are actually still going and have Sub options.Right now the Game is caster scrolls online.Even in PVE as well its not just cyrodil. if your not wearing a dress and using your class magica abilities with Destro Resto staff swap your not viable

I see that you never played Defiance.

KaedianEQ · June 2014

Part of the issue with the lack of class balance is because there's only four classes. When one or two classes are deemed "broken", it's a much larger issue than when it's one or two out of eight, ten, twelve etc.

Every mmo has balance issues at release and/or expansions. No developer can anticipate what will happen when hundreds of thousands of gamers attack a game and probe each class and race for exploits in the race to level cap. Beta testing is as much about testing the stability of the servers as it is the actual gameplay and nowadays more people beta test with the intention of getting a leg up at launch than actually providing unbiased feedback.