DK ultimate - Magma armor

Cogo · May 2014

Hi

I am a DK tank who uses a range of skills for tanking only. protection, survival, rooting, stuning. Doing what I can so my team can kill the targets.

I have a question. I got Magma armor witch is one of the ultimate abilities I can choose. Remember that I am a DK and tank now.

Is Magma armor really working as intended? In fights, I seam to be able to use it quite often. The regen of the ultimate is muuuuuch faster then the other DK ultimate.

I am wondering if Magma armor should be able to use so much? Maybe reduce the amount of ultimate it gets?

thorspark · May 2014

You win ultimate points anytime you block, dodge, hit, activate skills.
So if you are a tank and block attacks, that's where your extra ultimate come from.

And yes, at the moment, DKs can go on magma armor too often, cost should be 300 or 400 instead of 200.

Cogo · May 2014

Ah, yeah I do block. Dont all tanks?

And have several skills I activate in most dungeons fights.
Makes a bit more sense then, but still....feels a bit to often for an ultimate...

Comaetilico · May 2014

additionaly ultimate is generated by appling status and crits... that is the reason quite a few DK tank have opted to go full light armor and "dps" just to get more crit and more skill spam in order to have magma armor up almost 100% of the time... with just that you don't need any other survival trick ^^'

and yes... ultimate generation is actualy quite insane... especialy with lasting ultimate such as magma armor... stendard... negate magic and so on... in AoE intensive fight is not rare to see you ultimate bar recharge BEFORE your previous ultimate run out of time... -_-'

Cogo · May 2014

I am considering to feedback this to zenimax. Sure, the ability if good for me as tank, but I want to be a good tank because of me.....not because of an OP skill

thorspark · May 2014

At the moment, a DK with light armor (+10%), Inner light (+20%) and Flames of Oblivion (+13%) goes up to 43% crit rate on spells.

So yes, flames of oblivion ticks every second, in AoE, giving you much Ultimate, so does Pulsar if you use it on destro staff or inhale or whatever you want to.
With a DK you can Tank with light armor and destro/resto staff as you will always be under magma armor (oo near it), making the use of heavy armor and shield useless.

This ultimate needs to be fixed with a higher cost (and I'm a DK too).

Oh, and the problem as already been reported many times to Zenimax

danno8 · May 2014

They should probably add a limit on Ultimate generation/second. This would mean there is a "safe" amount of mobs to tank, and more than that is dangerous.

Right now, with DK's more mobs = more ultimate=more survivability.

columbineb14_ESO · May 2014

Aw, come on, magma armor is one of the few genuinely useful* ultimates in the game, don't argue to have it nerfed!** That's my Emergency This Fight Was Tougher Than I Thought Don't Die skill.

* For my very limited definition of "useful," which is "actually increases my survivability in solo PvE play." Most of the others - well, I don't know about NB ultimates, never played one of those - don't seem to help much with that.

** Actually, since I do tend to use it as an emergency skill, I don't spam it as often as I probably could and I haven't noticed how fast it refills. I just hate anything that sounds like a disadvantage to my one no-real-worries-about-survivability solo character. Hey, at least I'm honest.

Cogo · May 2014

As i said, I am a tank who uses this. And even I think it pops a bit to much.

Having checked though...it DOES depend on how much I block, use abilities. etc.....so it might not be THAT big....but a small correction maybe?

Comaetilico · May 2014

magma armor is a skill on the boreder of being OP (3% of HP as damage for 12 second... it means that a boss will inflict 36% of your max hp over the time you need to ress 2 characters -_-')

and this is a fact...

if you add to this the fact that ultimate generation at this moment is screwed up... and you can end up being under the CONTINUOUS effect of such ultimate... well it's quite easy to understand where this bring to right?

magma armor need to be toned down a little (the second best mitigation ultimate is from NB that reduce the damage by 60%... I think that even bringing magma armor to a damage reduction of 80% instead that fixing a cap on the maximum damage will still have it be the king of survival ultimate... and quite the OH ***! button for DK tank... but without turning it into a "tank naked if you want since you will not get any real damage"

at the same time accumulation of ultimate (especialy from AoE) need to be toned down quite a bit (they actualy toned it down in the last patch... but it's hard to see the difference... and with every class you can easily charge an ultimate even more than once per group of mob if use lot of AoE with hig crit chance...) and especialy during the "duration of ultimate abilities"... the simple fact that you can even in theory (and at the moment is quite easy to do it in practice too) chain 1 ultimate in order to have an uptime of 100% is silly at best ^^'

nerfing magma armor into oblivion? no this is not the right thing to do... reducing a bit it's mitigation is good but it doesn't deserve to become a worse damage mitigation than other ultimate that do so for more than just the caster...

make ulti a once every hour ability? no to this again... Ulti is something that bring depth to a game with no CD... but having it spammed is senseless as well (except maybe for those ulti that are MEANT to be used with hig frequence such as the templar spear ulti... that is just a skill that hit a little harder than other AoE but you can simply spam and have to alternate with a few other skill...)

Cogo · May 2014

Agree complety and if you check my first post....thats what I am asking about.

KiroElmarok · May 2014

Standard of Might > Magma Armor

For tanking, as long as you have a good healer I guess.

Havnt really had any issues and the NBs do more dps.

Obscure · May 2014

KiroElmarok wrote: »

Standard of Might > Magma Armor

For tanking, as long as you have a good healer I guess.

Havnt really had any issues and the NBs do more dps.

Why choose? Ultimate can be cost reduced and generated fast enough to have both active at the same time. Combo with Choking Talons and be an unrepentant god (-40% incoming damage from Corrosive Armor, -35% incoming damage from Standard of Might, -30% incoming damage from Choking Talons, all of which is capped at a max of 3% of your maximum HP). It's basically a giant middle finger to damage.

...and on a side note if a Nightblade is out DPSing you, you're not doing it right.

KiroElmarok · May 2014

@Obscure‌
Yep. I don't use ult reduction gear currently but should definitely get me a set soon.

As for the NB thing, I was half joking. DKs are awesome in terms of they can easy mode be dps, but I was talking in pve. As a tank... I'd sure hope the dps is out dpsing me.

Obscure · May 2014

@KiroElmarok
Your standard DPS optimized Nightblade is a PvP build. In PvE, they don't make the cut. They make great healers, some of the best, but DPS? That's the Sorcerers trade skill. As a DK there's no need to sacrifice survivability for damage or vice versa, they do both seamlessly. Where a Nightblade might take down the boss a smidge faster, the DK can do it whilst soaking it's damage, and healing itself. Optimal DK tanks solo Craglorn, optimal Nightblade DPSers solo scrubs in PvP. The distinction is nightly and knightly.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · May 2014

Nerf light armor not tanks again.

KiroElmarok · May 2014

@Obscure‌ definitely agree on that. Thanks to the DK passives, dps tanking is easy to do.

Also, lol at the night knight joke.

Nightman'Cometh · May 2014

Obscure wrote: »

@KiroElmarok
Your standard DPS optimized Nightblade is a PvP build. In PvE, they don't make the cut. They make great healers, some of the best, but DPS? That's the Sorcerers trade skill. As a DK there's no need to sacrifice survivability for damage or vice versa, they do both seamlessly. Where a Nightblade might take down the boss a smidge faster, the DK can do it whilst soaking it's damage, and healing itself. Optimal DK tanks solo Craglorn, optimal Nightblade DPSers solo scrubs in PvP. The distinction is nightly and knightly.

Sorry man but this isn't true at all. At vet levels a properly specc'd and geared DK will easily out DPS an equally geared and skilled NB. Right now DK offers the best tank in the game and also arguably the best DPS in the game. A % of that is due to the cheap, extremely powerful ults but the class abilities in general offer some easy ways to crank out 700+ DPS. The biggest issue I see is how to balance them properly, but I think that could actually be done by modifying the softcap and resource cost of abilities as opposed to pure damage reduction to their skills.

Therium104 · June 2014

Nightman'Cometh wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

@KiroElmarok
Your standard DPS optimized Nightblade is a PvP build. In PvE, they don't make the cut. They make great healers, some of the best, but DPS? That's the Sorcerers trade skill. As a DK there's no need to sacrifice survivability for damage or vice versa, they do both seamlessly. Where a Nightblade might take down the boss a smidge faster, the DK can do it whilst soaking it's damage, and healing itself. Optimal DK tanks solo Craglorn, optimal Nightblade DPSers solo scrubs in PvP. The distinction is nightly and knightly.

Sorry man but this isn't true at all. At vet levels a properly specc'd and geared DK will easily out DPS an equally geared and skilled NB. Right now DK offers the best tank in the game and also arguably the best DPS in the game. A % of that is due to the cheap, extremely powerful ults but the class abilities in general offer some easy ways to crank out 700+ DPS. The biggest issue I see is how to balance them properly, but I think that could actually be done by modifying the softcap and resource cost of abilities as opposed to pure damage reduction to their skills.

Lol....... Magma armor is fine. Also, beware your quests to nerf. The devs want balance and something you consider OP in one class allows your class to be OP in something else. This is why stuff gets changed to one skill but other classes get hit as well. The horror!!!#

The typical bottom feeder on the forums that is crying for buffs to their class and nerfs to others is trying to nerf other classes so they can win. They do not seem to understand that the devs want a balanced game. This fact eludes the standard baddie and when across the board balance changes are implemented and.... without a doubt..... they still suck... the bads cry some more.

Cogo · June 2014

KiroElmarok wrote: »

@Obscure‌ definitely agree on that. Thanks to the DK passives, dps tanking is easy to do.

Also, lol at the night knight joke.

Just checking, Damage dealing (throw DPS away..that means nothing in (ESO).

My build is soly for taking heavy damage, survival, CC, stun, taunt, interups, group buffs/protects. I do very little damage. MY sword swing, Shield bash correctly timed so I stun my target does good damage. And my taunt skill does some. Thats it.... Yes, chocking talons, but I use them for CC, not damage.

Yes, I can change a skill from "tank" skill to a damage one and so do more damage, but thats not what I am aiming for.

My role is to be able to withstand anything the biggest hardest damage that any creature can throw at me. Along with keeping the enemy group busy so my team can do their job and destroy them.

I have noticed more and more that stun is very useful. Not just on the boss, but on the enemies who likes my healer!

Nightman'Cometh · June 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

Nightman'Cometh wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

@KiroElmarok
Your standard DPS optimized Nightblade is a PvP build. In PvE, they don't make the cut. They make great healers, some of the best, but DPS? That's the Sorcerers trade skill. As a DK there's no need to sacrifice survivability for damage or vice versa, they do both seamlessly. Where a Nightblade might take down the boss a smidge faster, the DK can do it whilst soaking it's damage, and healing itself. Optimal DK tanks solo Craglorn, optimal Nightblade DPSers solo scrubs in PvP. The distinction is nightly and knightly.

Sorry man but this isn't true at all. At vet levels a properly specc'd and geared DK will easily out DPS an equally geared and skilled NB. Right now DK offers the best tank in the game and also arguably the best DPS in the game. A % of that is due to the cheap, extremely powerful ults but the class abilities in general offer some easy ways to crank out 700+ DPS. The biggest issue I see is how to balance them properly, but I think that could actually be done by modifying the softcap and resource cost of abilities as opposed to pure damage reduction to their skills.

Lol....... Magma armor is fine. Also, beware your quests to nerf. The devs want balance and something you consider OP in one class allows your class to be OP in something else. This is why stuff gets changed to one skill but other classes get hit as well. The horror!!!#

The typical bottom feeder on the forums that is crying for buffs to their class and nerfs to others is trying to nerf other classes so they can win. They do not seem to understand that the devs want a balanced game. This fact eludes the standard baddie and when across the board balance changes are implemented and.... without a doubt..... they still suck... the bads cry some more.

If you think Molten Armor (along with standard) are balanced right now you aren't playing the class right. It's easy to literally keep MA up at nearly all times in combat because of how cheap it is. Also, if you actually read and understood my post you'd understand that I am *not* crying for a nerf to DK's. Hell, I play a DK, but I understand the issues with the game are not a matter of 1 class specifically being OP.

The issues are centered around the way the game currently utilizes stamina as weapon skills and ALL class skills require magicka. Class Skills are far superior to weapon skills when you're talking about maximizing DPS. This means it makes sense to stack mana and light armor unless you want to tank (and even then it is debatable because of how low the armor softcap is). Many people who roll NB do so because they want to play the rogue or archer archtype, but currently this is just plain unviable at VR if you want to be brought into dungeons/trials. If they were to raise the armor cap significantly it would give a lot more incentive to wear heavy armor. Also, if they made stamina a more viable option for DPS (either by making some class abilities require Stamina or by modifying class passives to take better benefit from weapon abilities) it would go a long way in making other classes viable.

None of these things I mention are nerfs; they're ways to make the game more balanced for everyone.

Westcoast14_ESO · June 2014

ZoS is moving in the right direction so far with the patches to ultimate generation. My understanding was ultimate generation was supposed to be a way to incentivize skillful play. But many of the factors that generate ultimate seem to have nothing to do with skill (ex. critting? its an rng, constantly blocking and using instant cast abilities? just doing more damage (having better gear doesn't mean more skill? and so on). Also, the system also needs a bit more granularity in order to really tune it.

Cogo · June 2014

As you can see in the latest patch 1.1.3. The reduced the duration of magma armor.

So yes, they are balancing as good as they can. Magma armor when I use it still only gains ultimate resources when I actually do something specific like a block, taunt, stun/if possible and interupt. Also it goes up very little on the damage I do on the boss.

Since my build is only for tanking in groups really. I dont have any "good" damage abilities other then when I switch to bow, where my group buffing/shielding abilities are as well.

Lets see how it works now when its active less.

ANYONE who calls this a nerf simply do not know what this skill is.
I use it! I need it! But I WANT balance.

This was a fix, and I wouldnt be surpriced of other changes that balance everything as a whole. Some people need to stop looking at only THEIR characters skills.

Tobiz · June 2014

1.Make ultimate abilites stop generation of ultimate for at least the duration of it, and possibly then some.
2. Profit.
Then you will always have a window inbetween them where you are vulnerable to all the damage, and you can no longer spam it. You might actually even have to think about when to use it.

edit. And for the sake of Mara, Stendarr and Akatosh find a better name for ultimate.