"Play the Way You Want" - How to turn this lie into reality?
Quaesivi
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Just a couple ideas, you are free to disagree, just, I'd rather no flaming.
Of course, these suggestions also depends on Zenimax fixing the weapon skills that are not sticks.
These are 3 separate, unrelated suggestions that are listed from easier to harder (to implement).
Suggestion 1) Clearly, sadly, incapability of handling 2 resource bars. Just use 1 Bar, Magicka, for skills. Keep Stamina bar for Sprint/CC Break/Block and make Heavy Attacks drain Stamina as well like the good old TES games.
Suggestion 2) Upon morphing, give players a chance to dictate whether that skill will be using Stamina or Magicka as a resource.
Suggestion 3) Includes a complete overhaul and quite a lengthy read so you can skip if you are already bored.
-Make Weapons give a certain amount of both spell and weapon damage. Such as Staves maximum spell damage, minimum weapon damage. 2H minimum spell damage, maximum weapon damage, 1H is something in between, probably balanced version (For those who want to be Spellswords). Also, both Weapon and Spell Damage should only scale off of your current weapon + your level + enchantments, nothing else, the one we have at the moment, scaling purely by level, that is ridiculous that a guy using a dagger and a staff has the same magical potential.
-4 Resource Bars: Magicka, Stamina, Health and a Fatigue bar (for CC/Block/Sprint/Heavy Attack) that scales only by your level, depletes depending on your armor.
-Armor Skill Line: Should be only 1 line, not divided into 3, however passive effects should be changed depending on your current outfit. (This one is just optional idea)
-Add the suggestion 2 here, or you can pidgeonhole the classes. Such as Nightblade pure Stamina, Sorcerer pure Magicka, Dragonknight and Templar both Hybrids (Melee lines depending on Stamina, Healing/Ranged/CC lines depending on Magicka)
-For the love of Aedra and Daedra, fix the damn weapon skills, you lot were capable of making Staves scale off of Magicka instead of Stamina like all other weapons, why not make the class skills deviate as well?
Also, just a suggestion on Ultimates. They are called Ultimates for a reason, so buff them, all of them, to the level of the so called OP Standard (DK Ulti). HOWEVER, make all Ultimates cost a fix amount of 250 Ultimate + 10% of the Maximum Health/Magicka/Stamina (Yes, all 3). That would definitely solve the Ultimate spamming, as well as people whining about Dragonknights restoring their bars by dropping ultimates.
Edited by Quaesivi on 3 June 2014 13:27 Of course, these suggestions also depends on Zenimax fixing the weapon skills that are not sticks.
These are 3 separate, unrelated suggestions that are listed from easier to harder (to implement).
Suggestion 1) Clearly, sadly, incapability of handling 2 resource bars. Just use 1 Bar, Magicka, for skills. Keep Stamina bar for Sprint/CC Break/Block and make Heavy Attacks drain Stamina as well like the good old TES games.
Suggestion 2) Upon morphing, give players a chance to dictate whether that skill will be using Stamina or Magicka as a resource.
Suggestion 3) Includes a complete overhaul and quite a lengthy read so you can skip if you are already bored.
-Make Weapons give a certain amount of both spell and weapon damage. Such as Staves maximum spell damage, minimum weapon damage. 2H minimum spell damage, maximum weapon damage, 1H is something in between, probably balanced version (For those who want to be Spellswords). Also, both Weapon and Spell Damage should only scale off of your current weapon + your level + enchantments, nothing else, the one we have at the moment, scaling purely by level, that is ridiculous that a guy using a dagger and a staff has the same magical potential.
-4 Resource Bars: Magicka, Stamina, Health and a Fatigue bar (for CC/Block/Sprint/Heavy Attack) that scales only by your level, depletes depending on your armor.
-Armor Skill Line: Should be only 1 line, not divided into 3, however passive effects should be changed depending on your current outfit. (This one is just optional idea)
-Add the suggestion 2 here, or you can pidgeonhole the classes. Such as Nightblade pure Stamina, Sorcerer pure Magicka, Dragonknight and Templar both Hybrids (Melee lines depending on Stamina, Healing/Ranged/CC lines depending on Magicka)
-For the love of Aedra and Daedra, fix the damn weapon skills, you lot were capable of making Staves scale off of Magicka instead of Stamina like all other weapons, why not make the class skills deviate as well?
Also, just a suggestion on Ultimates. They are called Ultimates for a reason, so buff them, all of them, to the level of the so called OP Standard (DK Ulti). HOWEVER, make all Ultimates cost a fix amount of 250 Ultimate + 10% of the Maximum Health/Magicka/Stamina (Yes, all 3). That would definitely solve the Ultimate spamming, as well as people whining about Dragonknights restoring their bars by dropping ultimates.
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Psychoke✭✭this is pretty much a rework of the whole combat system as we know it that you are suggesting, except for the ultimate thing / fatigue bar / heavy attack stamina cost(i was glad we were finally over that) I liked everything.. but a complete rework of the combat system is something we can only dream of. Won't happen unfortunately
"imagine a world without elder scrolls customer support, i can't either"0 -
fyendiarb16_ESO✭✭✭@Aenthel
I don't think they have to go further than doing 3 things to make the "lie" a reality:- As you suggested a fatigue bar for dodging/blocking/sprinting.
- Balance out the stamina abilities with the magicka abilities since atm the stamina cost vs damage is not nearly as good as the magicka cost vs damage. This is a tough one since weapon scaling at veteran levels seem to be better than the spell scaling is (not able to test this myself so not sure if true).
- Raise or lower the soft caps for armor for light, medium and heavy to make the difference in survivability purely from armor itself is more clear.
Of course it would need quite some testing and balancing, but I think if they did those 3 things we are a big step closer towards the be all you can be and play as you want situation.
I am no designer though, never worked on balancing a game, so my idea's are simply based on logic which may not work as I think it would.0 -
Aoifesan✭✭✭fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »@Aenthel
I don't think they have to go further than doing 3 things to make the "lie" a reality:- As you suggested a fatigue bar for dodging/blocking/sprinting.
- Balance out the stamina abilities with the magicka abilities since atm the stamina cost vs damage is not nearly as good as the magicka cost vs damage. This is a tough one since weapon scaling at veteran levels seem to be better than the spell scaling is (not able to test this myself so not sure if true).
- Raise or lower the soft caps for armor for light, medium and heavy to make the difference in survivability purely from armor itself is more clear.
Of course it would need quite some testing and balancing, but I think if they did those 3 things we are a big step closer towards the be all you can be and play as you want situation.
I am no designer though, never worked on balancing a game, so my idea's are simply based on logic which may not work as I think it would.
The magicka scaling being worse doesn't really matter when the magicka sustain is 100x better for all classes.0 -
Quaesivi✭✭✭Buffing stamina skills sadly still doesn't fix the problem when every single class skill is dependant on magicka instead.1
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Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭There is an inherent balance between Magicka and Stamina. The problem is Magicka gains the 3 of 4 classes have BREAK this balance push it in favor of Magicka.
Light Amor passives need to also need to be looked but with the current issue above being fixed it MIGHT bring Light Armor into line with the rest of the armors.
A LOT in this game needs to be done but if they don't do it in the right order they will have no choice but to have to REFIX things they already "fixed" once. This leaves a very unhappy community.
Also with the complete lack of Dev communication NOBODY really has any idea whats working as intended and whats broken or how things should be.0 -
fyendiarb16_ESO✭✭✭I think that if stamina abilities are more in line with the class magicka abilities then the stamina builds can focus mainly on their weapon lines and only use the class abilities as backup. I do agree though that some class abilities that are clearly melee should use stamina instead.
The magicka sustain compared to that of stamina is indeed something I overlooked and should also be fixed.
I still think those 3 things I mentioned would make a big step towards where we want to go though. A step, not the complete journey.0 -
Quaesivi✭✭✭Sad part about stamina regen is, despite having 2 times of the recovery rate of magicka, but barely more than 1.5 times of it, it still fills slower.
I have roughly 1300 Magicka and 1950 Stamina, 50 Magicka Recovery and 95 something Stamina Recovery with Green Dragon Blood. My Magicka fills 3 times faster than Stamina, in or out of combat, when depleted to 0.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »I think that if stamina abilities are more in line with the class magicka abilities then the stamina builds can focus mainly on their weapon lines and only use the class abilities as backup. I do agree though that some class abilities that are clearly melee should use stamina instead.
The magicka sustain compared to that of stamina is indeed something I overlooked and should also be fixed.
I still think those 3 things I mentioned would make a big step towards where we want to go though. A step, not the complete journey.
I will post my belief on this here as well IE its just a belief.
Magicka abilities are MEANT to produce more damage than Stamina abilities. Magicka is supposed to be HIGH damage low sustainment. While Stamina is supposed to be Standard damage High sustainment.
When a Magicka user runs out of Magicka their damage is supposed to drop way below a Stamina users. Stamina users rely HEAVILY on their Light/Heavy Attacks for all their damage(this is why Stamina also affects staffs) and the abilities themselves bring more utility or only a slightly higher burst damage that is still lower than a Magicka users.
Stamina ALSO brings to the table higher survivability through Block, Dodge, Stun
Problem is Magicka users typically don't run out of Magicka......unless your a Templar.
If you look at a Magicka user being constantly Magicka Starved then the system makes more sense.
Class abilities all being Magicka based ALSO makes sense as EVERYBODY has BOTH Magicka and Stamina and this bring a balance to the table IE Class abilities Magicka based the rest of the damage (except staff Magicka abilities) is Stamina based including Staff's Light/Heavy Attack.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sad part about stamina regen is, despite having 2 times of the recovery rate of magicka, but barely more than 1.5 times of it, it still fills slower.
I have roughly 1300 Magicka and 1950 Stamina, 50 Magicka Recovery and 95 something Stamina Recovery with Green Dragon Blood. My Magicka fills 3 times faster than Stamina, in or out of combat, when depleted to 0.
If you are not able to keep your stamina abilities up for at least 75% of any given fight, you're doing something wrong.
Classes all have abilities that help you synergize with stamina-based weapon abilities. There is no pure stamina build, but I have a real advantage over magicka-only builds because I never run out of resources. I always have at least one bar with enough to use an ability.----
Murray?0 -
fyendiarb16_ESO✭✭✭@Shaun98ca2 You bring up some very valid points there, which if I understand them correctly would make one single change the biggest step of all: lower magicka sustain and raise it for stamina a bit.0
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fyendiarb16_ESO✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sad part about stamina regen is, despite having 2 times of the recovery rate of magicka, but barely more than 1.5 times of it, it still fills slower.
I have roughly 1300 Magicka and 1950 Stamina, 50 Magicka Recovery and 95 something Stamina Recovery with Green Dragon Blood. My Magicka fills 3 times faster than Stamina, in or out of combat, when depleted to 0.
If you are not able to keep your stamina abilities up for at least 75% of any given fight, you're doing something wrong.
Classes all have abilities that help you synergize with stamina-based weapon abilities. There is no pure stamina build, but I have a real advantage over magicka-only builds because I never run out of resources. I always have at least one bar with enough to use an ability.
I know these remarks were not aimed at me, but I like to react anyway since I am on of those that have massive stamina problems on his sword and board character and knows he is indeed doing something wrong. Problem is I still have to find out how to balance blocking, stamina attacks and class skills. Maybe I should focus more on that alt for a while to get a better feel for it instead of alt-hopping all the time.
I agree with you that those of us that have trouble with their stamina are doing something wrong, I just wish there was an easy answer to fix that, I would follow that answer to the letter right away.
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Quaesivi✭✭✭Well it is supposed to act like;
Magicka = Burst
Stamina = Sustained
Problem is Magicka is both sustained + burst, tons of Magicka Recovery bonuses of some kind, such as Warlock and Magicka Furnace set bonus however nothing for Stamina.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sad part about stamina regen is, despite having 2 times of the recovery rate of magicka, but barely more than 1.5 times of it, it still fills slower.
I have roughly 1300 Magicka and 1950 Stamina, 50 Magicka Recovery and 95 something Stamina Recovery with Green Dragon Blood. My Magicka fills 3 times faster than Stamina, in or out of combat, when depleted to 0.
If you are not able to keep your stamina abilities up for at least 75% of any given fight, you're doing something wrong.
Classes all have abilities that help you synergize with stamina-based weapon abilities. There is no pure stamina build, but I have a real advantage over magicka-only builds because I never run out of resources. I always have at least one bar with enough to use an ability.
I know these remarks were not aimed at me, but I like to react anyway since I am on of those that have massive stamina problems on his sword and board character and knows he is indeed doing something wrong. Problem is I still have to find out how to balance blocking, stamina attacks and class skills. Maybe I should focus more on that alt for a while to get a better feel for it instead of alt-hopping all the time.
I agree with you that those of us that have trouble with their stamina are doing something wrong, I just wish there was an easy answer to fix that, I would follow that answer to the letter right away.
Try not looking at your Stamina Abilities as a source of damage and look at them as more of a Utility. As a Stamina based character your main source of damage will be produced from Light/Heavy Attacks.
Now with Sword and Board you have to realize your damage is going to be much lower as that's a weapon set meant for tanking. You can bring more damage using class abilities but again this will be very hard to sustain. But as a tank high damage isn't really a big issue and if you need high damage you can weapon swap.
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Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »@Shaun98ca2 You bring up some very valid points there, which if I understand them correctly would make one single change the biggest step of all: lower magicka sustain and raise it for stamina a bit.
Mostly lower Magicka sustain and then look at the balance and see what needs fixing, but in general YES.0 -
Crumpy✭✭✭✭Play something else?
Thinking about it the whole 'Play the way you want' was utterly untrue.
A blatantly disingenuous tag-line.
I lyke not this quill.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Play something else?
Thinking about it the whole 'Play the way you want' was utterly untrue.
A blatantly disingenuous tag-line.
This is very incorrect. Play how you want is very much in the game. NighBlades can be tanks, healers, dps. This goes for all classes. There are balance issues that need to be worked out but you can play the way you want.1 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS clearly lied about playing your way to make sales. They only want light wearing, staff using sorcs.0 -
Quaesivi✭✭✭OR we can go the old school TES way, choose a couple skills that would gain more XP, others getting next to nothing and being extremely painful to raise unless a lot of time spent.0
