Grouping as a melee is like a (bad) rave party.

grizzbi · May 2014

I'm a templar, VR4. And I play a melee build. Because, you know, I like diversity and challenge..Not a stamina build. A hybrid, with almost no stamina, some health and enough magicka... I've spent all my gold to figure a "barely ok build", so I can solo. Not instanced dungeons like some people..of course not..I can solo wolves, beetles, do all the quests and kill the occasional Boss with work. It's ok.. I know that I don't play the same game as most of the other. But I prefer mine. I like difficulty.

Anyway, half the content is designed for a group..

Since nothing has been done in time, most of the people have respec to magicka/ light armor/ staves build. So right now, everyone and their whole family is spamming AOE DPS in groups: public dungeons, instanced dungeons, World bosses, dolmen...half the content. I won't even talk about the use and abuse of volcanic rune..

It's almost unplayable as a melee. Most of the time, I can barely see what I'm doing because of all the accumulated lights from all the AOE. I will taunt a boss, interrupt a caster, "blindly" block for one or two sec if I see my health bar dropping, CC (something?), buff(someone?), heal the others...

Meanwhile all - all - my group is just running, spamming one button to AOE dps anything on its path...

It is boring and absolutely not rewarding. There's no team play and no coordination. No one care about the others...And it doesn't look like a TES game. The vibrant world, the stories, the diversity, all the roles and different class mechanics...destroyed when playing in group.

I used to defend the game. But seriously....ZOS, your silence is deafening..Either you don't have the time, or you can't do anything, or you're happy with the current state of the game. No one could say. But there's definitely something wrong...

Desdemonte · May 2014

Yeah, melee in this game is borked.

oxylus · May 2014

There's a lot of exaggeration in this post (e.g. "almost unplayable"), so I have difficulty taking it seriously. I am also a templar, VR4, melee. I disagree with pretty much everything you said and have experienced a very different game. Lots of team coordination (even when not in a party with said random people), people helping out (switching to heals or tank for instance when a nearby player needs it), exciting combat. Some of the issues you speak about sound like a problem with your graphics settings, because even in the crazy frantic moments of dolmen battles I don't have a problem seeing through the myriad spell effects and AOEs dancing across the screen. Maybe you should turn down the effects if it bothers you. Just a suggestion.

grizzbi · May 2014

oxylus wrote: »

There's a lot of exaggeration in this post (e.g. "almost unplayable"), so I have difficulty taking it seriously. I am also a templar, VR4, melee. I disagree with pretty much everything you said and have experienced a very different game. Lots of team coordination (even when not in a party with said random people), people helping out (switching to heals or tank for instance when a nearby player needs it), exciting combat. Some of the issues you speak about sound like a problem with your graphics settings, because even in the crazy frantic moments of dolmen battles I don't have a problem seeing through the myriad spell effects and AOEs dancing across the screen. Maybe you should turn down the effects if it bothers you. Just a suggestion.

I think you don't get the point of my post: people are all running the same build . The result is AOE dps stacking to kill anything in a few sec. And nothing else. I don't see how I could fix that in my graphic settings. And I don't call that " exciting combat".

Covyn · May 2014

I know what he is saying and I do agree with him...even though I am the one running about with the AoE, I've spoken with many of my long time gaming friends and they have said the same things. The game at the moment is causing everyone to put on a dress and pick up a stick...basically forcing people into a build to "be the best". The melee synergy needs some work so there can be multiple "best builds".

As for now, you may want to reduce spell effects.....I know, garbage answer, but the game is a zergfest at the moment, and it will be for awhile. As for tanking....pick the biggest mob and hold it, whether that's the big melee mob in the pack or the boss...don't bother even paying attention to the rest of the trash.

ozgod22_eso · May 2014

Desdemonte wrote: »

Yeah, melee in this game is borked.

Melee in every MMO is usually borked.

dcorsiukb14_ESO · May 2014

Like everyone else said. If you play a stamina based build in vr content you are going to have a bad time.

Hodorius · May 2014

This phenomenon is called FOTM ( flavour of the month ).
Last month it was beeing a vampire.

Next month it will be something else...
I predict it will be NB with bow ( again ).

The only constant is kiddies whining about the "flavour" beeing fixed/nerved/balanced not beeing overpowered anymore.
Watch out for "This game is broken/ZOS broke my character/You destroyed PvP" threads.

Then someone posts a video on Youtube and a new flavour is born

p.hurst1b16_ESO · May 2014

It would be nice for us to be able to turn effects off when tanking. Especially that resto staff Force Siphon thing. Most MMO have a FX cut option because it helps with performance in large groups.

Or just change the Force Siphon animation to something less intrusive.

Bangstin · May 2014

There are also good rave parties?

Metacon · May 2014

grizzbi wrote: »

Meanwhile all - all - my group is just running, spamming one button to AOE dps anything on its path...

Its sad but... welcome to "Elder Sorc's Online, Banner Edition" where no matter if youre pve'ing or pvp - the most heard question is: "Do the DKs have their banner ready?"

Sometimes I think, if youre not a Sorcerer or DK - you are just an Extra so that the landscape doesnt look too empty while the others are playing.

j_labbeb16_ESO · May 2014

dcorsiukb14_ESO wrote: »

Like everyone else said. If you play a stamina based build in vr content you are going to have a bad time.

Interesting, I'm vr5 now and pure melee/bow player and I find vr content to be cake walk 90% of the time if you gear right.

I'm 7/7 med armor but do plan on going 5/7 med 2/7 light very soon to finalize my build.

R0M2K · May 2014

Yep after some time you realice the game mechanics feel idiotic and mindless.

Eso is becoming a headless running chicken.

grizzbi · May 2014

dcorsiukb14_ESO wrote: »

Like everyone else said. If you play a stamina based build in vr content you are going to have a bad time.

No one here talk about stamina build and I don't run one. I'm melee, i use weapons abilities, but I have zero point into stamina. There are already many discussions about the "stamina issue".

Hodorius wrote: »

This phenomenon is called FOTM ( flavour of the month ).
Last month it was beeing a vampire.

Next month it will be something else...
I predict it will be NB with bow ( again ).

The only constant is kiddies whining about the "flavour" beeing fixed/nerved/balanced not beeing overpowered anymore.
Watch out for "This game is broken/ZOS broke my character/You destroyed PvP" threads.

Then someone posts a video on Youtube and a new flavour is born

I've been playing mmos for over 15 years. I'm aware that there will always be FOTM class/build. And I really don't care about that.

The current situation is worst:
- The game is poorly balanced.
- Most of the people feel forced to use a single build to play in group.
- The game is dumb down by this build and its variants.
- Team playing is non existant. It's just about stacking AOE damage and CC
- There are too many AOE spammable abilities and it makes the game a mess.

I have no problem playing an underdog class or build as long as I'm not even more punished by all the above facts.

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice for us to be able to turn effects off when tanking. Especially that resto staff Force Siphon thing. Most MMO have a FX cut option because it helps with performance in large groups.

Or just change the Force Siphon animation to something less intrusive.

- Visual effects should all be reduced to take into account the fact that they are spammable and stackable.
- There should be more options to reduce them in the game settings.
- AOE abilities should not be the norm. They should cost a lot more magicka, or have a long casting time, or do a lot less damage. They have taken way too much importance in this game. Anyone can just spam them for maximum efficiency. That's lazy or uninspired game design.

Metacon wrote: »

grizzbi wrote: »

Meanwhile all - all - my group is just running, spamming one button to AOE dps anything on its path...

Its sad but... welcome to "Elder Sorc's Online, Banner Edition" where no matter if youre pve'ing or pvp - the most heard question is: "Do the DKs have their banner ready?"

Sometimes I think, if youre not a Sorcerer or DK - you are just an Extra so that the landscape doesnt look too empty while the others are playing.

This post was not about the FOTM.

As a templar I can also use a build with staves and get good results. In fact I've noticed that I can tank way better in light armor with resto staff than in Heavy armor with 1H/Shield. And if I do so, I can spam AOE dps in the middle of trash mobs like anyone else. It's easy, more efficient DPS wise, and I survive longer because I can constantly regen magicka and more often use my ultimates.

Everyone can enter the rave party and be the best dancer...

R0M2K wrote: »

Yep after some time you realice the game mechanics feel idiotic and mindless.

Eso is becoming a headless running chicken.

And you know why all the people jump on the bandwagon?
Because they can.

It takes way too much time to address the different issues. Game balancing is so slow. Like someone said in another post: there are many discussions about major issues with hundreds of comments and not a single word from ZOS.

People wouldn't reroll DK or respec light armor/staves if ZOS made an official message to say that they are working on a fix to balance the game and bring it back to something more interesting.

People are not dumb. They just adapt. If you tell them that there's only one way to play the game, then they choose this one. Or they leave because it's definitely not "play as you want". In fact it's the exact opposite.

reggielee · May 2014

hate to say it but you are right, people are spamming the most dps aoe in their build (me too) just in order to get credit for the fight and get either ..loot rewards, quest acknowledgement. this started for me in defense of heavy bot infestations, then in defense of high level players farming dolmens and bosses.

i started off as a tank templar like I do in all my mmos but play now as a ranged magic caster who kites like crazy and uses aoe bursts for when the mobs get to me. the game is much nicer and enjoyable that way.

there comes a time when you have to just give up and go with the flow or your entire game time will be unenjoyable. until things change you are beating your head on a wall

bg22 · May 2014

I agree... Grouping sucks.

I'm VR11 and even still when in a high-effect fight I find myself swinging blindly as I can't even tell what I'm supposed to be hitting.

Runnin around blinding swinging axes like "Ahhhhhh"....

Only to see that I was swinging at a friendly once the effects ended.

grizzbi · May 2014

reggielee wrote: »

hate to say it but you are right, people are spamming the most dps aoe in their build (me too) just in order to get credit for the fight and get either ..loot rewards, quest acknowledgement. this started for me in defense of heavy bot infestations, then in defense of high level players farming dolmens and bosses.

i started off as a tank templar like I do in all my mmos but play now as a ranged magic caster who kites like crazy and uses aoe bursts for when the mobs get to me. the game is much nicer and enjoyable that way.

there comes a time when you have to just give up and go with the flow or your entire game time will be unenjoyable. until things change you are beating your head on a wall

Group content is as bad as that.
The true TESO game for me is playing the hard mode in solo pve.

Every time I group, I'm asking myself why I continue to play such a badly designed game. There are so many Mmo with a more interesting team play.

Stacking trash mobs and giving all the player mass destruction weapons...what an uninspired game design..This is an "Action MMO" , not a mmoRPG.

Years ago, in DAOC, in groups anyone had to use abilities wisely. Each class was really different. Team play, assist and timing was the key. Be it in pve or pvp.
Now we got this AOE soup, with over the top visual effects to please the kids.

grizzbi · May 2014

bg22 wrote: »

I agree... Grouping sucks.

I'm VR11 and even still when in a high-effect fight I find myself swinging blindly as I can't even tell what I'm supposed to be hitting.

Runnin around blinding swinging axes like "Ahhhhhh"....

Only to see that I was swinging at a friendly once the effects ended.

Ahah, it does happen. Usually you can recognize the melee, because they are the only one to continue to fight when the fight is ...well..over ^^
Embarrassing

But I always smile when it happens

CosmicChaos · May 2014

grizzbi wrote: »

I'm a templar, VR4. And I play a melee build. Because, you know, I like diversity and challenge..Not a stamina build. A hybrid, with almost no stamina, some health and enough magicka... I've spent all my gold to figure a "barely ok build", so I can solo. Not instanced dungeons like some people..of course not..I can solo wolves, beetles, do all the quests and kill the occasional Boss with work. It's ok.. I know that I don't play the same game as most of the other. But I prefer mine. I like difficulty.

Anyway, half the content is designed for a group..

Since nothing has been done in time, most of the people have respec to magicka/ light armor/ staves build. So right now, everyone and their whole family is spamming AOE DPS in groups: public dungeons, instanced dungeons, World bosses, dolmen...half the content. I won't even talk about the use and abuse of volcanic rune..

It's almost unplayable as a melee. Most of the time, I can barely see what I'm doing because of all the accumulated lights from all the AOE. I will taunt a boss, interrupt a caster, "blindly" block for one or two sec if I see my health bar dropping, CC (something?), buff(someone?), heal the others...

Meanwhile all - all - my group is just running, spamming one button to AOE dps anything on its path...

It is boring and absolutely not rewarding. There's no team play and no coordination. No one care about the others...And it doesn't look like a TES game. The vibrant world, the stories, the diversity, all the roles and different class mechanics...destroyed when playing in group.

I used to defend the game. But seriously....ZOS, your silence is deafening..Either you don't have the time, or you can't do anything, or you're happy with the current state of the game. No one could say. But there's definitely something wrong...

Playing with random people in any online game your experience is going to very. That said I run a Templar V5 using a CC/DoT build. I play with two friends I just met on ESO. One is a Healer the other is tanking a DK. So I try not to use my CC abilities on mobs our DK is fighting unless he starts losing too much health. I play with randoms off and on. Some do spam things like Volcanic Rune and AoE attacks. When I first started I would spam reflective light repeatedly cause it was low enough cost and killed quick enough. Now I run an add-on that shows my Buffs/DoTs so I try to apply it as soon as the DoT wears off. Casting DoTs before resets the effect so you are losing damage you already paid the cost for.

Desdemonte · May 2014

I just don't understand how fundamental things like this, and all the other broken things in this game could slip through a full year on the PTS. It doesn't make me optimistic that things are going to change for the better in the future, regardless of the time frame.

grizzbi · May 2014

CosmicChaos wrote: »

Playing with random people in any online game your experience is going to very. That said I run a Templar V5 using a CC/DoT build. I play with two friends I just met on ESO. One is a Healer the other is tanking a DK. So I try not to use my CC abilities on mobs our DK is fighting unless he starts losing too much health. I play with randoms off and on. Some do spam things like Volcanic Rune and AoE attacks. When I first started I would spam reflective light repeatedly cause it was low enough cost and killed quick enough. Now I run an add-on that shows my Buffs/DoTs so I try to apply it as soon as the DoT wears off. Casting DoTs before resets the effect so you are losing damage you already paid the cost for.

I suppose that you can "reinvent" the game if you play with friends. You're basically doing what I do myself playing solo: you refuse to abuse the game mechanics and make your own game, more challenging, and more fun.

Anyway, you can do that with almost any game. It's more about role playing. And It's a great way to have fun.

That said, you can't always "fight against the game design". If the game direction is bad, one day or another, you'll find yourself more and more in situations where you need to face the sad truth.

Zero_Tolerance · May 2014

Give it time. They fixed shield bash, they'll fix destro/resto staff.

grizzbi · May 2014

Zero_Tolerance wrote: »

Give it time. They fixed shield bash, they'll fix destro/resto staff.

- It's not only about one skill or one build. It's about overall balance.
- I can give them time as long as I'm sure they are working on it. As far as I know, the first update was a AOE DPS competitive race.
- We can expect more regularity, reactivity and efficiency from them because it's an expensive AAA title, with a paying sub and a big team. And we are in 2014...

As I said, I used to defend the game. But I don't want to do it blindly. Either it's a true mmorpg, or it's an action mmo for kids. They choose.

YourNameHere · May 2014

I'm starting to see this more and more and I'm mainly Bow.

I refuse to jump on the bandwagon though. No fun in that. Sounds boring and yawnfest.