So, Groups get v12 in craiglorn, whats going to happen to the solo players?

temjiu · May 2014

This isn't a whine about the new content being group only. I'm OK with that. but during a discussion in my guild, it got me thinking.

What is going to happen to the solo players? will they pretty much continue grinding v10-12 in the opposing fraction areas? is new content post craiglorn going to be set for v12 difficulty or higher? or are they actually going to be smart and raise the level cap?

On a more general note...makes you wonder about this V# approach to advancement. it really is just adding more "levels" to the game. which seem silly and shortsighted to me. what will they do if they decide to start the leveling process again? make lvl 51 gear better then v1-v12? it almost feels like they are digging themselves a hole with this advancement approach.

I shouldn't be biased, but I wonder sometimes if much of this is based on their experience with single player games only. MMO's are a very different breed, and I already see the evidence of the lack of experience in other parts of the game. I wonder if this whole advancement thing is another aspect of that.

EDIT: off the topic, but man....Bethesda, could we PLEASE get some better organization to these forums! Geez...give me access and 15 minutes and I could come up with a better format. Seriously...someone needs to revamp these categories. we don't even really have a "general" forum. class forums non existent....OK that whine is done. for now....

Ker.Rakb16_ESO · May 2014

temjiu wrote: »

what will they do if they decide to start the leveling process again? make lvl 51 gear better then v1-v12?

I don't think they plan on ever doing that. The amount of questing and grinding required to get from VR 1 to 12 is so high that VR 12 players would be at least level 90 or 95 on the "normal" xp curve. Considering that the difference between normal and VR levels is rather small (and easily tweaked) anyway, it's probably smarter to stick with the exponential progression of VR instead of adding in dozens of new levels.

Another problem is skill trees - upgrading every class and weapon tree to offer meaningful progression seems like a balancing nightmare. I wouldn't expect them to add new skills to those lines for a very long time.

temjiu · May 2014

Ker.Rakb16_ESO wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

what will they do if they decide to start the leveling process again? make lvl 51 gear better then v1-v12?

I don't think they plan on ever doing that. The amount of questing and grinding required to get from VR 1 to 12 is so high that VR 12 players would be at least level 90 or 95 on the "normal" xp curve. Considering that the difference between normal and VR levels is rather small (and easily tweaked) anyway, it's probably smarter to stick with the exponential progression of VR instead of adding in dozens of new levels.

Another problem is skill trees - upgrading every class and weapon tree to offer meaningful progression seems like a balancing nightmare. I wouldn't expect them to add new skills to those lines for a very long time.

Those were some of my thoughts as well. which makes me wonder how much thinking they really did about this skill approach and setup.

At this point, extra VR just means extra experience and gear. skill points are done. the only real progression we have is going to be gear.

Mothanos · May 2014

And farming like 6/7 million or more exp.
Its a bad design in a mmo so young.
Not many are happy with this carrot on a stick design especialy people who love alts or love pvp.
i can see this is not going to end well for people who are already burned up from questing to V5 , they still got 33% to go for max level and then another "grind" is comming out this month.

My gues is that people are going to get burned out...
If you like this kind of design then +10 and kudo's for you.
But for people who already had enough quests to endure to reach V5 or V10 this is going to be one big disapointment.

Veteran levels for me are the worste ever game design and the most lazy ones.
Its a horrible way if you want to get your friends to join the game.
They are in for a 2 month quest grind and breaks any desire for them to join in and do fun stuff together.
This is where GW2 hits golden as you can play together no matter your level or progresion.
And this is where ESO fails completely.

I am afraid that this is going to be the main reason many people and guilds leave this game.
The endless amount of expirience needed to get on par with each other and finaly doing stuff as a group.
Not to mention the ownage of soon to be V12 versus new people trying out Cyrodiil and get instagibbed.

Totaly not needed to increase Veteran ranks this early in the game....

Sureshawt · May 2014

Mothanos wrote: »

I am afraid that this is going to be the main reason many people and guilds leave this game.
The endless amount of expirience needed to get on par with each other and finaly doing stuff as a group.
Not to mention the ownage of soon to be V12 versus new people trying out Cyrodiil and get instagibbed.

Totaly not needed to increase Veteran ranks this early in the game....

This^

I left DAoC, SWTOR and WoW because of the insane continuous gear grind to stay competitive. Casual and semi-casuals end up falling way behind the power curve and new players end up with a horrible first impression.

There is a lot to love about this game and I truly enjoy the PvP environment but being PvP food for power levelers is not my idea of fun.

I also do not enjoy constantly 'working' for more and more gear when I just want to have fun playing a game. I work enough in my real job and last thing I want to do is make my entertainment feel like work.

It looks like I'll be heading back to GW2....I do wish it had the kind of PvP environment this game does.

silent88b14_ESO · May 2014

Yeah, surely it takes no time to roll out more advanced systems and content that demonstrate the potential of the veteran advancement design. Forming a judgement now is totally not premature.

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

MMO - Multi-player Online. Solo players can go fire up Skyrim and play through it again.

Jermu73 · May 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

MMO - Multi-player Online. Solo players can go fire up Skyrim and play through it again.

You think you are funny? I don't

Yes craiglorn is group content and i don't like playing in groups and i don't care about craiglorn just fixes what comes along. I'm happy with content what i can do solo now and hoping that there will be more solo content later on.

Rayadrel · May 2014

juhamorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

MMO - Multi-player Online. Solo players can go fire up Skyrim and play through it again.

You think you are funny? I don't

Yes craiglorn is group content and i don't like playing in groups and i don't care about craiglorn just fixes what comes along. I'm happy with content what i can do solo now and hoping that there will be more solo content later on.

Don't mind the trolls. You'll always get simpletons who think that "It's an MMO, therefore grouping must be compulsory all the time to do anything ever."
I suppose it says something about their social lives if they feel the only way they can get company is if it's mandatory.

Chirru · May 2014

If solo content is scrapped in future expansions... I am out.
Vet rank as it is now is the limit I will go to. Any harder and I will be out also.

ShADoW0s · May 2014

Rayadrel wrote: »

juhamorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

MMO - Multi-player Online. Solo players can go fire up Skyrim and play through it again.

You think you are funny? I don't

Yes craiglorn is group content and i don't like playing in groups and i don't care about craiglorn just fixes what comes along. I'm happy with content what i can do solo now and hoping that there will be more solo content later on.

Don't mind the trolls. You'll always get simpletons who think that "It's an MMO, therefore grouping must be compulsory all the time to do anything ever."
I suppose it says something about their social lives if they feel the only way they can get company is if it's mandatory.

What?? You signed up to play an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online), not a single player game. Grouping and party dungeons are are mandatory for an MMO, of which ESO does not do a good job, due to its phasing.

No where in his post did he say that it HAD to be ONLY grouped quest.

I agree that he probably should have said more, but saying that hes a troll and has no social life is completely stupid, its like you bought a car and are demanding a bike instead, MMO will come with group quests.

@‌ OP
Craiglorn, will add more zones, so there will be single player stuff. Only the end game dungeons and trials will require groups. As for future updates, there will always be single player quests so you can enjoy that, and since you dont like group dungeons, just buy/craft the gear you need (if they plan to add dungeon-only loot)

Falmer · May 2014

Well, I can say as a 95% solo player, that I am playing to consume lore and story content. Veteran levels don't really concern me at all. Once one of my characters has completed all the quests and zones for their alliance, I will be going back to other alliances.

More quests and more zones to see is what I want as a solo player. "End-Game" content isn't something that appeals to me in the least.

Thechemicals · May 2014

Im sure Craglorn will be 2 and 3 manned given enough time.

Inupis · May 2014

Low level solo content being added later to the game is probably never going to happen in any big amounts. As the game ages more and more people are at the end game, so that is what get attention.

As to group vs solo. Creating challenging solo content in a MMO (that can not be exploited) for end game is difficult. That is why they focus on group play. Easier to make and harder to exploit unless you have a group to exploit it with all the time.

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

juhamorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

MMO - Multi-player Online. Solo players can go fire up Skyrim and play through it again.

You think you are funny? I don't

Yes craiglorn is group content and i don't like playing in groups and i don't care about craiglorn just fixes what comes along. I'm happy with content what i can do solo now and hoping that there will be more solo content later on.

Well my profile says i got at least 31 LOL's and 61 Agrees, so yes its safe to say i think im funny.

Gaudrath · May 2014

Question: why are people burned out from questing? I mean, I can understand if you're doing the same content with a third character or something, but with the first one? It's quests. Like... reading a book, only you get to smash stuff and burn faces off when you get tired from reading. What's not to like?

Gaudrath · May 2014

Falmer wrote: »

Well, I can say as a 95% solo player, that I am playing to consume lore and story content. Veteran levels don't really concern me at all. Once one of my characters has completed all the quests and zones for their alliance, I will be going back to other alliances.

More quests and more zones to see is what I want as a solo player. "End-Game" content isn't something that appeals to me in the least.

Problem is, all new zones they add will be veteran-ranked. You can bet on that. Veteran ranks are really just 50-60(62) with scaled up difficulty. As far as I am concerned, the real fun part is right there since PvE in 1-50 is a pushover.

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

Solo players are going to have to learn to be social.

isengrimb16_ESO · May 2014

temjiu wrote: »

Ker.Rakb16_ESO wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

what will they do if they decide to start the leveling process again? make lvl 51 gear better then v1-v12?

I don't think they plan on ever doing that. The amount of questing and grinding required to get from VR 1 to 12 is so high that VR 12 players would be at least level 90 or 95 on the "normal" xp curve. Considering that the difference between normal and VR levels is rather small (and easily tweaked) anyway, it's probably smarter to stick with the exponential progression of VR instead of adding in dozens of new levels.

Another problem is skill trees - upgrading every class and weapon tree to offer meaningful progression seems like a balancing nightmare. I wouldn't expect them to add new skills to those lines for a very long time.

Those were some of my thoughts as well. which makes me wonder how much thinking they really did about this skill approach and setup.

At this point, extra VR just means extra experience and gear. skill points are done. the only real progression we have is going to be gear.

Mostly, they have to make sure we can craft all the gear we want to current max level - including jewelry!

isengrimb16_ESO · May 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Solo players are going to have to learn to be social.

Forcing people to be social when they don't want to be, with people they don't wish to be social with, never works.

RustyBlades · May 2014

I only play MMO's to comment on how everyone else cheats, makes fashion anti-statements, and what a terrible name they have for their toon. Why would I ever want to group them... other than to beat the group dungeons, etc..

Liquid_Time · May 2014

You can enjoy most MMO's solo... Playing an MMO does not imply that you must group or even speak with other players... I play solo, but enjoy contact with other players (PvP mostly). MMO's provide solo players a bit more realism then the average NPC standing around.. That's what attracts me least.

silent88b14_ESO · May 2014

You can play through most of the game solo, but it still has gating events in the main story where you pretty much have to over-level it or call for backup (if you can get them to port in). Maybe if you are good with scripts you could do it slaving bots to your main like some were doing this evening in the lower levels of some dungeons. eh, at least most of the scripty players are trying to keep a somewhat lower profile.

But there's no real surprise in veteran's rank content being designed for groups of codependents.

It is as if this recent 'alpha attitude' fetish that dominates so many young males these days has become incorporated into the game design.

Sad. Beautiful environment. Good writing. Lovely music.

Sallakat · May 2014

Well if you think about any other MMO, what do single player people do in there after they hit max level? well I guess in some games there are dailies, but who does that for months/years.
So options for max level single players that don't wanna take part in group activities is limited and I tbh that's how it should be cos it's an MMO: the end game should be the focus, imo. You can have your level cap, new zone, whatever later on like in any other game to get more content for the single players. But end gamers are anyways the people that keep MMO game going for the longest time.

silent88b14_ESO · May 2014

Sallakat wrote: »

Well if you think about any other MMO, what do single player people do in there after they hit max level? well I guess in some games there are dailies, but who does that for months/years.
So options for max level single players that don't wanna take part in group activities is limited and I tbh that's how it should be cos it's an MMO: the end game should be the focus, imo. You can have your level cap, new zone, whatever later on like in any other game to get more content for the single players. But end gamers are anyways the people that keep MMO game going for the longest time.

No, the 'end gamers' (as if an MMO could have an end game) migrate sooner than anyone. It is the players who take the time to socialize that stick with it. And hate to break it to you but socializing is definitively casual, and most independent players do socialize to some degree or another, even if it is vicariously. My guess is that Zen rightly foresaw that the codependent locusts would first need Vet Ranks and VR5 mobs walking around Cyrodiil, so that had to be put into production first.

If I'm right then they will more gradually add soloable content and create alternative ways to gain Vet ranks. The most significant indicator that I'm mistaken I believe is the introduction of VR5 mobs all over Cyrodiil. That effectively cuts Cyrodiil off from the rest of us to the point where all the effort to scale up a level ten to be a pretend-50 was rendered fairly pointless. A pretend-50 wasn't competitive with a natural 50 let alone the Vet ranks now populating Cyrodiil.

We could surmise there have been some changes in the design team. I don't think it is for the better, but we'll see. I'm not a locust type.