Veteran ranks and Templars

Bloodfang · May 2014

There has been posts about how templars were nerfed and are now a "broken" class. I disagree.

First I'd like to say that before patch 1.1.2 I was really enjoying on my tank templar with 1h + shield. Leveling from 1-50 I could take on public dungeons mostly alone! Yes I could take on 6,7 mobs without dying! The secret was on timing my ultimate correctly and blocking everything, 1 mistake would result in a death, but most of the time I died because of mobs running away and pulling another group.

When I first entered veteran zones I noticed they are a bit harder, mostly they just had more health, mechanics stayed pretty much the same. I was completing quests solo with ease. I even tried the public dungeon, and to my surprise I actually managed to take on 6 mobs alone again! However 1 mistake is in veteran content much more costly!

Now when I compare it with post 1.1.2 patch, there are a few changes. I'm not sure what caused them, but there definitively is a big difference. I'm not sure if Bitting Jabs is really that much nerfed, I still use it as my main aoe attack and it delivers (I dont feel it's that much worse as some of you exaggerated). Shield bash is pretty much useless now, damage has been decreased by a lot, but that was to be expected. However the one thing I don't understand is my big health increase. Before patch I had around 2000, now I'm at 2700.

As for the combat feel, well I might be the only one, but it actually feels a lot better!
Sure our damage might have been decreased, but my survavibility seems to be increased! Fights take longer, but I'm for sure not dying that fast as before the patch!
As an example before the patch when I fought with 3+ mobs it was just a dps race, now it seems to be more resource management. I've tried fighting with 3 mobs and I always end up with 80+% health, however my resources get drained much faster.

Drakoleon · May 2014

I dont know what level you are now but at V7-V8 forget the 3+ mobs solo!
You'll be happy when you can kill 2 thunderbuggs solo with this setup

Bloodfang · May 2014

I'm at VR3 atm. If what you are saying is true, it does indeed make me happy, so far there wasn't much solo challenges!

Cogo · May 2014

I must been tired cause I read your post as templars are broken, fix em!

You very well explained what happend to templars and its all as it should be. I am a DK tank, so I should be table to take more damage mitigation (and shield is a must for the block) then a templar tank.

They fixed it now. Your increase in HP is just what it suppose to be, along with healing. I saw some DEV talking about fixing some healing ability for templars that didnt function properly. Also, they did downgrade your class skill ability to do damage, but I recall a DEV said they feked up a little there too and was gonna fix it.

This statement of yours I really like and would want to put in every post that whines about how hard fights are:

As for the combat feel, well I might be the only one, but it actually feels a lot better!
Sure our damage might have been decreased, but my survavibility seems to be increased! Fights take longer, but I'm for sure not dying that fast as before the patch!

That you can solo 3 veteran mobs though. Either there is another fix coming, or you simply are something so many people dont even consider....a good player.

I can't barely solo, but that is by choice. Try and kill me and that will take a while.
I've practice with a bow as second weapon since last week when I found out that shield bash is OP (I dont use OP things).

It works but daaaaamn tricky and need personal skill.Move, aim and HIT the damn thing.

I have the shield bash abilities and the power bash. When I do interupt an enemy with the bash (as intended) it does a fair bit of damage but not like before, nor should it. But it stuns also, so I back off, change to bow and try to get as many hits as possible before the enemy reaches me again.

I have noticed that against casters, I have very little problem killing them. Taunt ability for me does decent damage, then I kill with the 1H weapon. Works fine. I dont understand all the complaints about needed to buff 1H damage. If you want to do more damge with a weapon, you wield a 2H right?

Glad to read your post!

I do like to hear that making a mistake in the new veteran dungeons hurts even more then the current ones (I only do dungeons my level range...never lower once)

Refreshing post to read. Thank you!

Sidrath · May 2014

Please post full details of your playstyle and setup, it's not clear to me how you're taking on 6-7 mobs solo in VR content and plenty of us would love to hear about it. I am -baffled- that you're not finding Biting Jabs much nerfed; you're self-stunning yourself for 1.2 seconds (confirmed by Devs). I'd wager that Biting Jabs would be suicide in VR against large packs.

I am cautious about the OP, sounds like (at best) he's uncovered something seriously broken about the patch or (at worst) it's an erroneous post. I mean come on... extra survivability for Templars out of thin air? Nothing in the patch notes suggests a HP change, so -even- if this is true, it suggests even more changes not documented on the PTS. Personally that worries me because a) I didn't experience it, so it may be inconsistently applying and b) undocumented may mean a bug, so it's liable to retraction anyway.

Could you please clarify what is better about your survivability?

Bloodfang · May 2014

sidghoshaleb17_ESO wrote: »

Please post full details of your playstyle and setup, it's not clear to me how you're taking on 6-7 mobs solo in VR content and plenty of us would love to hear about it. I am -baffled- that you're not finding Biting Jabs much nerfed; you're self-stunning yourself for 1.2 seconds (confirmed by Devs). I'd wager that Biting Jabs would be suicide in VR against large packs.

I am cautious about the OP, sounds like (at best) he's uncovered something seriously broken about the patch or (at worst) it's an erroneous post. I mean come on... extra survivability for Templars out of thin air? Nothing in the patch notes suggests a HP change, so -even- if this is true, it suggests even more changes not documented on the PTS. Personally that worries me because a) I didn't experience it, so it may be inconsistently applying and b) undocumented may mean a bug, so it's liable to retraction anyway.

Could you please clarify what is better about your survivability?

I managed to take on 6 mobs in VR content before the patch, haven't tried myself after it! However going against 3 mobs I still don't have any troubles, even if they are higher VR than me (Explored a bit in cyrodill and I can take 3 mobs of VR5 without a problem, I'm VR3). Hm I was even reading that some can't even kill anything thas has over 4k hp, I found some elites with names in Cyrodill with 10k hp, I presume they are some kind of bosses, managed to solo all 3 of them that I found.

My build and playstyle is nothing special either so I don't understand what the deal seems to be. I'm a bit balancing between all the resources. I begin my attack whenever I can with a sneak attack - Ransack IV or Empowering Sweep IV against multiple targets. If sneaking is not an option or I'm discovered I begin with Shielded Assault IV. After that I just spam Bitting Jabs IV and Power Bash and hit the Ultimate whenever I can. That is usually enough for most of the veteran mobs, they seem to be hitting hard only on their power attacks which can be easily avoided or just interrupted.

As for the health increase I just found out it was bugged for me! The bonus that you get in PvP somehow stayed in PvE too, odd! However I'm still not quite sure, I believe there is a minor health increase after all, I dont remember myself having 2200hp before the patch. As for the survivability, I think that some attacks are regenerating health, which wasn't the case before the patch. Thus making fights longer now.

EDIT: I'm not sure how it is with other races, but as an Imperial I have a 10% chance to restore 133 health (Red Diamond Passive). Heavy Armor branch also has Consitution that adds bonus to health regeneration 28% and Rapid Mending that increases healing received by 7% (Of course it depends on how many pieces of heavy armor you wear). Apart from that I suppose it's worth mentioning that my 1-handed sword recovers 11 health (on hit?). I can only imagine it could make someone really OP if they spent more time with enchanthing glyphs and the alchemy.

EDIT2: Tested healing on Recount. Seems like something called "Star of the West" is doing the most heals (95%). In number it does 850-1000 healing total in a 3 mob fight.

danno8 · May 2014

850-1000 healing? That is huge especially if it scales with the number of mobs. I don't know where that heal comes from but if it is a racial passive it is horribly unbalanced, or potentially bugged.

If it is something else then everyone should be picking it up.

danno8 · May 2014

After digging a bit I found out that "Star of the West" is in fact the proc heal for the Imperial "Red Diamond" passive.

That skill is only suppose to have a 10% chance to return 6 health on melee attacks. If you are getting 850 per fight then it is proccing 141 times per fight, which means you are either attacking 1400 times per fight or it is in fact ignoring the 10% chance to proc and is proccing with every attack.

Either way it is broken and it is why you are having such an easy time of things.

Bloodfang · May 2014

Here are the recount stats against 3 harpies VR3:

I've noticed that "Star of the West" procs very different each fight, however longer the fight you're bound to get more heals! The heals went as low to 300 to as high as 1300!

danno8 · May 2014

Actually just saw that the 2/4/6 is actually 2%/4%/6% of total health. The tooltip is wrong in the imperial passive list.

Wow that is way to good a passive and now I really wish I rolled an imperial. This makes a huge difference especially considering that biting jabs counts as 4 hits, and probably for every mob it hits. So if you hit 3 mobs with 4 hits it counts as 12 hits and you will likely get the heal.

Wow.

Bloodfang · May 2014

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Actually just saw that the 2/4/6 is actually 2%/4%/6% of total health. The tooltip is wrong in the imperial passive list.

Wow that is way to good a passive and now I really wish I rolled an imperial. This makes a huge difference especially considering that biting jabs counts as 4 hits, and probably for every mob it hits. So if you hit 3 mobs with 4 hits it counts as 12 hits and you will likely get the heal.

Wow.

Yeah you are correct on that! I wish recount was little more detailed so I could see how many Biting Jabs hits I make in a fight. It should be close to about 80, which means ~1000 hp in every 3 mobs fight.

So if we multiple that by 2 when you are fighting against 6,7 mobs in public dungeons, it's no wonder it's doable as an Imperial.

Drakoleon · May 2014

These "numbers" are great and thank you very much for the detailed analysis!

But at V8 i have hard time to kill a group of 3....skeevers and as for the thunderbugs i dont even get close....3 mobs.... just forget it! only mages and dragonknights can kill them with ease all templars i have seen waiting for someone to come by and help..

Bloodfang · May 2014

Drakoleon wrote: »

These "numbers" are great and thank you very much for the detailed analysis!

But at V8 i have hard time to kill a group of 3....skeevers and as for the thunderbugs i dont even get close....3 mobs.... just forget it! only mages and dragonknights can kill them with ease all templars i have seen waiting for someone to come by and help..

Glad at least someone appreciates my analysis! xD I agree that templars need to get buffed if we are to become equal to the sorcerers and dragonknights, and I'm sure the next patch will fix just that.

I'm not sure what are the differences beetwen us apart from the heals, cause I have a feeling that there is just much more to it. I wish there would be more people posting their recount data so we can compare which skills are the best.

Zarkaz · May 2014

Yep Star of the West + Jabs is what makes templar good against 3+ mobs and it took me to v12 with no problems even after "nerf". If you will also use proper sets like Tw.Embrace and have some knowledge how your class\weapon skills works you will have a walk in park in solo veteran pve.

Ragekniv · May 2014

Amazing. You post how you can't understand Templars who are struggling and then post evidence clearly showing a broken racial that is making your life a breeze in VR content.

Happy for you. I hope they nerf the #$@% out of it so you can feel everyone elses pain.

Fruity_Ninja · May 2014

So Imperial Templars are the new OP class? Does this mean no more whinging about DK's, Sorcerers and Vampires?

Bloodfang · May 2014

Ragekniv wrote: »

Amazing. You post how you can't understand Templars who are struggling and then post evidence clearly showing a broken racial that is making your life a breeze in VR content.

Happy for you. I hope they nerf the #$@% out of it so you can feel everyone elses pain.

Why is there so many ignorant people around here? Racial is functioning as it's designed, nothing broken about it.

Also I posted evidence that you can solo 3 veteran mobs equal level even without CC, heals or any other self buffs. Or are you going to argue that you don't have 1000hp?

And the last thing, pretty much every Race has some of the Magicka, Stamina, Health regeneration bonus WHILE IN COMBAT racial passive. Even if they nerf my race passive I'll be there, I'll continue playing, if anything I'm missing some challenge in this game anyway. However for you I hope they buff your race passives so you stop whining about how the game is to hard.

RivenCsky · May 2014

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

So Imperial Templars are the new OP class? Does this mean no more whinging about DK's, Sorcerers and Vampires?

Your funny. DK players in my guild complain when they cannot take on 8 mobs without their ultimate up. A non Mage built Templar could only dream of such abilities. So ya the OP list goes as follows.

1. DK
2. Sorc
3. NB
4. Templar

williamburr2001b14_ESO · May 2014

This is a troll. Ransack is a single-target skill and Empowering Sweep is an ultimate. You can't possibly call this a normal strat for dealing with groups. Even with Imperial weapon heal, using this strat (and "spamming" biting jabs, which is an obvious contradiction post-patch) you'd drop in about 7 seconds, having done very little damage in the meantime. There's no temporary shield skill mentioned, no armor increase except from ransack, no avoidance. This is a fiction for VR content.

Fruity_Ninja · May 2014

RivenCsky wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

So Imperial Templars are the new OP class? Does this mean no more whinging about DK's, Sorcerers and Vampires?

Your funny. DK players in my guild complain when they cannot take on 8 mobs without their ultimate up. A non Mage built Templar could only dream of such abilities. So ya the OP list goes as follows.

1. DK
2. Sorc
3. NB
4. Templar

O'rly now?

Insightful.

hamon · May 2014

Despair9 wrote: »

I'm at VR3 atm. If what you are saying is true, it does indeed make me happy, so far there wasn't much solo challenges!

i,m vet 12 templar and I think you should wait till you get vet 12 doing most of it solo before you start to tell folk its all ok..

cos its not even with staff/staff .. its just not ok..

Teroh · May 2014

The health increases comes from PvP buff.

Phantorang · May 2014

Despair9 wrote: »

There has been posts about how templars were nerfed and are now a "broken" class. I disagree.

First I'd like to say that before patch 1.1.2 I was really enjoying on my tank templar with 1h + shield. Leveling from 1-50 I could take on public dungeons mostly alone! Yes I could take on 6,7 mobs without dying! The secret was on timing my ultimate correctly and blocking everything, 1 mistake would result in a death, but most of the time I died because of mobs running away and pulling another group.

When I first entered veteran zones I noticed they are a bit harder, mostly they just had more health, mechanics stayed pretty much the same. I was completing quests solo with ease. I even tried the public dungeon, and to my surprise I actually managed to take on 6 mobs alone again! However 1 mistake is in veteran content much more costly!

DKs and Sorcs are doing 20+ mobs solo, and even be at 100% health when finished.

Weird, never happened to me that 1 mob has been running away and pulling other groups.

Despair9 wrote: »

Now when I compare it with post 1.1.2 patch, there are a few changes. I'm not sure what caused them, but there definitively is a big difference. I'm not sure if Bitting Jabs is really that much nerfed, I still use it as my main aoe attack and it delivers (I dont feel it's that much worse as some of you exaggerated). Shield bash is pretty much useless now, damage has been decreased by a lot, but that was to be expected. However the one thing I don't understand is my big health increase. Before patch I had around 2000, now I'm at 2700.

That got nothing to do with you being a Templar, thats either your gear health bonus or PvP emperor and scroll bonuses.

Despair9 wrote: »

As for the combat feel, well I might be the only one, but it actually feels a lot better!
Sure our damage might have been decreased, but my survavibility seems to be increased! Fights take longer, but I'm for sure not dying that fast as before the patch!
As an example before the patch when I fought with 3+ mobs it was just a dps race, now it seems to be more resource management. I've tried fighting with 3 mobs and I always end up with 80+% health, however my resources get drained much faster.

This is first of all about balancing the classes, as long as Sorc and DK can do the same as Templar, only 5x harder, the Templar sucks.

You dont have a Templar main character, cause what you say is just wrong on so many levels.

Biting Jabs was nerfed to hell and back, fix it and all other DPS we got.

Ralph_Damiani · May 2014

Problem is that veteran content relies too much on AoE power and CC, which the templars sorely lack. Yes, our DPS could be boosted, but something must be done about our very lackluster top skills:

- Dark Flare and Power of the Light - Need to have casting time reduced to 1 sec.
- Spear Shard - Morph should stun up to three targets.
- Blazing Shield - Needs to have magicka regeneration while active and return up to 75% of damage taken.
- Blinding Lights - Needs to be 100% reliable when active, raise cost so it can't be active all the time. Morph should stun instead of disorientate.
- Channeled Focus - Needs to be an aura and regen magicka for each ability used. We had something similar in the beta.
- Empowered/Radial/Crescent Sweep - Needs knockback.
- Nova - Needs to be reverted to pre-nerf status or have its ultimate costs reduced.

Furthermore, heavy armor passives need to be greatly improved. Stamina attacks need resource reduction or damage boosted.