Manifestation of Terror

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

Maybe I am not being creative enough but does anyone have any idea how to make this skill useful? It seems like Volcanic Rune is so far superior to this skill that it makes it a complete joke. VR takes less Magicka and can be cast wherever you want within range and causes targets to stay close when CC'd. Manifestation is cast at your feet and causes all your targets to scatter but it might have a bigger AoE. I feel like it's a complete waste to take this over VR which IMO guild/world skills shouldn't out perform a similar class skill.

The only thing I could think of that may give Manifestation a positive over VR is the trap is invisible in PvP? I can't test this of course since I can't duel people but even then thats such a slight advantage since it drops at my feet. I think this skill needs something added to it and it's cost greatly reduced to make it better. Personally I would love to see it have a range like VR so I could have the choice of trying to keep everyone together with VR or have a chunk of the zerg scatter around with fear.

If anyone has found a use for this skill over VR please let me know cause it seems like an interesting skill to use but in it's current state I just think it's awful. I feel that could be said about shades also but that's a different issue.

apterous · May 2014

useless if you don't know how to use them as advantage. meet enemy that quite doesn't like going down? put that fear on him and soul strike while he runs. works like a charm.

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

Yet you can just knock up anyone you can fear with a VR and it does dmg so there isn't really an advantage there except a small bit of range

Crescent · May 2014

It's not a NB unique issue.

It's the same reason why my sorcer will never use Encase or Rune Prison. Encase costs almost double the magicka, and rune prison breaks on damage and is single target.

The issue with Zenimax is that they implemented a bunch of redundant skills.

Just count how many aoe skills you have. Now count how many are crap compared to Impulse spam or one of your class skills (like DK and Templar have strong class AoE).

Now count the amount of ranged nukes. Now count how many are inferior to a particular ranged skill.

Look at bow. Look at destro staff. Why would I ever use the bow over destro staff for ranged damage? The bow only works for a stealth opener and that's about it.

Hell, spamming Hidden Blade from dual wield actually does way more damage than the bow can ever hope to do.

That's the issue. Most classes, particularly Nightblade and Sorcerer, have a bunch of class skills that are overshadowed by other skill line skills.

Koensol · May 2014

Crescent wrote: »

It's not a NB unique issue.

It's the same reason why my sorcer will never use Encase or Rune Prison. Encase costs almost double the magicka, and rune prison breaks on damage and is single target.

The issue with Zenimax is that they implemented a bunch of redundant skills.

Just count how many aoe skills you have. Now count how many are crap compared to Impulse spam or one of your class skills (like DK and Templar have strong class AoE).

Now count the amount of ranged nukes. Now count how many are inferior to a particular ranged skill.

Look at bow. Look at destro staff. Why would I ever use the bow over destro staff for ranged damage? The bow only works for a stealth opener and that's about it.

Hell, spamming Hidden Blade from dual wield actually does way more damage than the bow can ever hope to do.

That's the issue. Most classes, particularly Nightblade and Sorcerer, have a bunch of class skills that are overshadowed by other skill line skills.

Lol Templar has good class AoE? Which? Puncturing strikes is useles now, solar barrage is a joke in terms of dps and blazing spear is situational. Sorc is way way better in this aspect.

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

Well my argument isn't one class is better at it than another, my argument is why is a skills everyone can get superior to a class skill? I feel like a class skill should always be stronger allowing that class to use a better version of whatever it is and other classes be forced to use a weaker version in a world/guild skill. Comparing these 2 skills I really cannot find any reason to use Terror over VR.

I know the game is still extremely young and they have other things to look at before they start trying to rebuild skills but I think Manifestation of Terror would be a good one to redo once they get to that point, especially considering I think it's the only fear in the game? Make it better than VR.

Jaxom · May 2014

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

Well my argument isn't one class is better at it than another, my argument is why is a skills everyone can get superior to a class skill? I feel like a class skill should always be stronger allowing that class to use a better version of whatever it is and other classes be forced to use a weaker version in a world/guild skill. Comparing these 2 skills I really cannot find any reason to use Terror over VR.

I know the game is still extremely young and they have other things to look at before they start trying to rebuild skills but I think Manifestation of Terror would be a good one to redo once they get to that point, especially considering I think it's the only fear in the game? Make it better than VR.

Mass Hysteria, in my opinion is better than Volcanic Rune. Not only does it fear for 4.5 seconds (pretty damn long) and doesnt break on damage, but it also reduces the targets attack power by 30% and snares by 52%. For both PvE and PvP, it's a very underutilized skill. Many people in PvP just get confused as hell since they dont know what is going on. It's just a hard cc break but you can chain it and effectively strip their stamina down to nothing (great fort DK's).

For PvE, open up with concealed weapon and Impale while fearing two mobs. It's makes groups of 3 a joke. You shouldnt get hit once while using it. It works on CC-able bosses so just chain fear it and plug away at their 13k hp pool. On bosses that are immune from CC< the power reduction still takes effect so it's a great skill to pop before a big hit in group dungeons.

You got to think outside the box.

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

Mass Hysteria has a use as a good 2 man CC but I was really focusing on it's other morph. The 4.5 second on Mass Hysteria is nice but I prefer a ranged CC option for PvP (not to say it's not good just doesn't really fit for me at the moment). In PvE it is annoying though because I then have to chase the mob and if he runs into another pack then I can only use range on him and I'm sure it pisses off anyone else hitting the mob. I would rather the snare last an extra 4.5 seconds so it effects them during the fear so I don't have to chase them down.

I been using VR in the PVP for the past hour or two and it's amazing, if Terror was castable at range like that I would probably use it over VR though since VR is easily seen. Would be even better if the fear made them run off the keep walls like the knockup on VR can cause them to fall off.

Can anyone tell me if the Terror trap is visible in PvP or not though?

Crescent · May 2014

Koensol wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

It's not a NB unique issue.

It's the same reason why my sorcer will never use Encase or Rune Prison. Encase costs almost double the magicka, and rune prison breaks on damage and is single target.

The issue with Zenimax is that they implemented a bunch of redundant skills.

Just count how many aoe skills you have. Now count how many are crap compared to Impulse spam or one of your class skills (like DK and Templar have strong class AoE).

Now count the amount of ranged nukes. Now count how many are inferior to a particular ranged skill.

Look at bow. Look at destro staff. Why would I ever use the bow over destro staff for ranged damage? The bow only works for a stealth opener and that's about it.

Hell, spamming Hidden Blade from dual wield actually does way more damage than the bow can ever hope to do.

That's the issue. Most classes, particularly Nightblade and Sorcerer, have a bunch of class skills that are overshadowed by other skill line skills.

Lol Templar has good class AoE? Which? Puncturing strikes is useles now, solar barrage is a joke in terms of dps and blazing spear is situational. Sorc is way way better in this aspect.

Oh, shut up I don't need to read some ignorant vomit claiming Lightning Flood is any good.

Of course people like you are probably calling Impulse a sorcerer skill.

I'll trade you any of my sorcerer class skills for biting jabs and blazing shield tyvm.

Hell, you can have the entire useless summon skill line.

Koensol · May 2014

@Crescent‌
Blazing shield requires you to get attacked and it halts magicka regen in the duration. Try spamming any other ability while keeping blazing shield up will get you an empty magicka pool in no time.

And the combo solar barrage - puncturing strikes is currently broken because the dps bonus doesnt apply to puncturing strikes or the morphs. Don't get me wrong puncturing strikes WAS an awsome skill, untill it got nerfed with the cooldown bullcrap.

And Lightning flood is actually pretty good in group situations. Oh and thx btw for your logical fallacies, assuming that I think impulse is a sorc ability it really makes your argument come across that much better.

Overall I'm not saying sorc is the best AoE class, but at this moment I deem it more capable than templars. Untill puncturing strikes gets fixed that is.

Crescent · May 2014

It is not my problem you refuse to optimize by not using Magicka Furnance armor and 7/7 light armor. If you're running out of magicka with that, you suck.

And Lightning Flood is not better for group situations. Especially with synergy overlapping and making it so unreliable.

I'd like to see how you like it if your biting jabs only did its AoE damage if somebody else came to activate it. Sorcerer AoE shouldn't be dependent on someone coming around to activate it for you.

Just as you are tired that some of your skills don't work, I'm tired of people like you spouting crap, making it seem like sorcerers have any option besides Impulse spam. Because they don't. And when Impulse is nerfed, sorcerers will be screwed as LF is mediocre and they're stuck with an entire skill line of worthless summons, and half a skill line in dark magic that is useless due to all the CC immune mobs, and the only nuke in stormcalling being usable in execute phase.

While templars are the supreme healers in the game and have viable damage builds to boot, while the sorcerer does middling damage, and who wants a sorcerer for anything besides Negate magicka when you can bring a DK that doubles his DPS and soon Nightblades will get fixed and will do greater single target damage too.

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

First I hear that Templars are better than Sorcs. All I hear is that Templars are not that great, not as broken as NB's (minus biting jabs being screwed right now) but most Templars seem to be bots while out in Cyrodiil it's all DKs and Sorcs.

Jaxom · May 2014

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

Mass Hysteria has a use as a good 2 man CC but I was really focusing on it's other morph. The 4.5 second on Mass Hysteria is nice but I prefer a ranged CC option for PvP (not to say it's not good just doesn't really fit for me at the moment). In PvE it is annoying though because I then have to chase the mob and if he runs into another pack then I can only use range on him and I'm sure it pisses off anyone else hitting the mob. I would rather the snare last an extra 4.5 seconds so it effects them during the fear so I don't have to chase them down.

I been using VR in the PVP for the past hour or two and it's amazing, if Terror was castable at range like that I would probably use it over VR though since VR is easily seen. Would be even better if the fear made them run off the keep walls like the knockup on VR can cause them to fall off.

Can anyone tell me if the Terror trap is visible in PvP or not though?

I'm pretty sure the trap isn't visible. I understand where you are coming from. Sadly, I'm forced into running Dual resto staffs so having the PvE enemies fleeing is a good thing for me since I'm all range.

In PvP, I use it as my cc and oh crap button. Have a NB or DK charge you, fear them. They break out? Fear them again. I've won more 1v1's using this skill than when I have VR on my bar. I love that you can set VR and protect yourself, what I don't like is the animation, cast time on it. If I have someone in my face, the fear is better since it's instant.

I know it only hits 2 people but if you have a small group you are rolling with in PvP, I can cast it like 3-4 times and fear the crap out of everyone while my teammates burn them down. I can burn through all of their stamina pretty fast while with Leeching strikes, I keep my resources at a respectable level. With VR, it does a little bit of damage and knocks them back but doesn't use up any resource on their end. I think that's why this skill shines. Once you fear them 2-3 times, they wont be able to get out of it again and 4.5 seconds in PvP is a long time to be vulnerable.

smercgames_ESO · May 2014

I will have to give it another shot in PvP but using it just makes you so vulnerable due to no cast range.. But I'm stubborn and will try it till I find a way to make it work or die many times trying!

Jaxom · May 2014

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

I will have to give it another shot in PvP but using it just makes you so vulnerable due to no cast range.. But I'm stubborn and will try it till I find a way to make it work or die many times trying!

You certainly can't use it in the same capacity as VR but it has it's place. If you are in a group and are just placing traps around and protecting people, VR is probably the better choice. When the crap hits the fan and you have two enemy players in your face, the fear will be better. I've gone back and forth between the two skills and I find myself living longer with the fear on my bar. I actually survived being charged by 3 DKs just using the fear. Fear them, dark cloak. Rinse repeat. If they talon you, fear them break out, then cloak. If you are fast enough, they wont be able to get another talon on you.