Bash needed to be nerfed, but it was over nerfed.

Urvanis · May 2014

right now, with 2 skill points invested and 3 jewelry slots invested dedicated to increasing the damage of shield bash, it doesn't do more damage than a basic attack. Ask yourself, if the skill were never meant to be a damage dealer, then why are there even means of increasing its damage?

and for the "its defensive, defensive shouldn't be able to deal damage." crowd. What about healers? My sorc can melt faces while he heals, I don't see anyone crying about that. given the nature of stamina based attacks being linked to weapons, there is no means of bringing offense to s/b like you can to resto staff.

The entire reason for this nerf was pvp crying. in an elderscrolls game, pvp should come second to pve. not to mention the fact that there will always be a flavor of the month OP pvp build, the people who do these things will just jump ship to some other cheap tactic. and with how many things there are that are broken in this game, why invest time to fix things that work before you fix things that don't work?

I can't even play my tank anymore because she's a Nightblade, and her secondary weapon is a bow. the one thing that works for her gets nerfed into uselessness, because zeni wants to fix what works, before fixing whats broken.

Sunrock · May 2014

Hmm to clarify what a nerf is...

Nerf = When balancing something they over did it and make the skill item or what ever too weak.

Balance = Made something stronger or weaker and hit the sweet spot.

PS: RE: Bashing in PvP.

Its quite hard to bash some one in PvP more then once.... So I would like to see those who QQ in PvP about this. But for PvE it was a bit too OP before. But they as you sad nerfed the skill now. Somewhere between what it is now and what it was before would have been allot better.

Lynx7386 · May 2014

I'm fine with bash damage being negligible. Personally I want to see all of that bash jewelry, and even the passive skill deadly bash, changed to drastically reduce the stamina cost of bashing (even fully reduce it to zero). Bash is there as a utility to stop casters, it isnt meant as a source of heavy damage.

Now, the power bash active ability from the shield line, that I think should do heavy damage. Extra damage could be added to low slash and puncturing strike as well to help shield users out (though, frankly all stamina/weapon abilities need to have their damage boosted and cost lowered, but we're playing mages-online so that will probably never happen).

Reenlister · May 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Snipped Extra damage could be added to low slash and puncturing strike as well to help shield users out (though, frankly all stamina/weapon abilities need to have their damage boosted and cost lowered, but we're playing mages-online so that will probably never happen).

Aye, that is what I have a been saying. For a while it was the world of the undead bloodsuckers, now it be the land of the magiky's. If yer a man o the sword you aint had nare a chance, and it 'taint getting no better.

Tendeep · May 2014

Reenlister wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Snipped Extra damage could be added to low slash and puncturing strike as well to help shield users out (though, frankly all stamina/weapon abilities need to have their damage boosted and cost lowered, but we're playing mages-online so that will probably never happen).

Aye, that is what I have a been saying. For a while it was the world of the undead bloodsuckers, now it be the land of the magiky's. If yer a man o the sword you aint had nare a chance, and it 'taint getting no better.

Truth. I dropped my "Paladin" Templar due to it being horrible to play. Sadly I rolled a NB, and cried all over again haha

Reenlister · May 2014

@Tendeep Aye, I feel yer pain. I have reached the point where I be a wonderin about headin back at all. I have come so far though, ya ken? I have me no desire to start over, and I have no desire at all to start up a magiky, but it seem that, well, the way of the warrior is over.

Cogo · May 2014

I am actually using bash again, but properly. Works quite good and do pack a bunch with skillpoints and the time when you SHOULD bash, just like the skill says.

Using the block, while you fight, you find that 1H and shield very much is soloble, BUT it is a fixed skill now. So to use it properly, you need to.....this is really hard for me to say.....

I never thought I would say this in any game, and Ive been around MMOs for soon 20 years.

Learn to play. There, Ive said it! MY first....it hurt a bit, but its true.

Urvanis · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

I am actually using bash again, but properly. Works quite good and do pack a bunch with skillpoints, the timing when you SHOULD back, just like the skill says.

I never thought I would say this in any game, and Ive been around MMOs for soon 20 years.

Learn to play. There, Ive said it! MY first....it hurt a bit, but its true.

20-25% more damage on interrupt with jewelry and skill points hardly pushes it over the damage of a basic attack. The only use damage wise that bash has now is to cancel attack animations. I don't need damage to tank, I need damage to solo, and taking 3x the time to kill things is slowing advancement down to a crawl.

20 years of playing MMOs, and now is the first time you say l2p? must have been a pretty casual 20 years.

Cogo · May 2014

Um, I guess I have to state the obvious....1H and Shield is NOT suppose to be among the best damage skills. Sure, SOME damage.

And I solo quite well, even though I am build tank as only tanking.

I use my bow a lot. Some mobs I can kill with 1H andshield + the abilities I have.
But a troll? Forget it!

I am a TANK. I take damage, I survive longer then others.

If you wish to be able to solo as a tank, you have a LOT of skills avaible to you that does do damage. Then again, you may not be able to tank so well.

And if you are playing as a tank, you KNOW there is not one single BEST way to tank anything. All the bosses have difference abilties, events.

And unless you missed it, YES its very good to have a tank in a group dungeon/instance/raid/big events. But this is ESO......there is no BEST way to do something.

I've seen a night blade, my level, who tanked really well. Since I am so much build for tanking, I am not that usefull doing damage, so my role in that group was pretty much stuning/rooting mobs and haress every mob that got interested in the healer.

I dont understand why so many have reasons behind peoples arguments about what working and not, has their bases from other games?

This is ESO, A NEW type of MMO.

For tanks, your skill, combat awareness and speed in adapting how you best can help the group is one of the most challenging and fun things I have done in ANY MMO.

Urvanis · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

Um, I guess I have to state the obvious....1H and Shield is NOT suppose to be among the best damage skills. Sure, SOME damage.

And I solo quite well, even though I am build tank as only tanking.

I use my bow a lot. Some mobs I can kill with 1H andshield + the abilities I have.
But a troll? Forget it!

I am a TANK. I take damage, I survive longer then others.

If you wish to be able to solo as a tank, you have a LOT of skills avaible to you that does do damage. Then again, you may not be able to tank so well.

And if you are playing as a tank, you KNOW there is not one single BEST way to tank anything. All the bosses have difference abilties, events.

And unless you missed it, YES its very good to have a tank in a group dungeon/instance/raid/big events. But this is ESO......there is no BEST way to do something.

I've seen a night blade, my level, who tanked really well. Since I am so much build for tanking, I am not that usefull doing damage, so my role in that group was pretty much stuning/rooting mobs and haress every mob that got interested in the healer.

I dont understand why so many have reasons behind peoples arguments about what working and not, has their bases from other games?

This is ESO, A NEW type of MMO.

For tanks, your skill, combat awareness and speed in adapting how you best can help the group is one of the most challenging and fun things I have done in ANY MMO.

where do you get the impression that I think s/b should be among the best damage skills? In the title I clearly state it needed to be nerfed, but that it was over nerfed.

As I stated, this change has no effect on my ability to tank, so I don't see why you're even mentioning tanking. the only way to deal decent damage with s/b now, is to be magika based. s/b skills deal too little damage to be more than a tickle, and the only other stamina option, fighter's guild skills, are only effective against some of the content.

Maybe i wasn't clear about nightblade in my OP. Its not that I can't make it work, its that I'm frustrated by the amount of broken skills I have to deal with, then to see the crutch I relied so much on get nerfed to oblivion while everything else stays broken.

"but a troll? forget it!" do you mean to say you can't handle a troll? or am I miss understanding?

Cogo · May 2014

Urvanis wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Um, I guess I have to state the obvious....1H and Shield is NOT suppose to be among the best damage skills. Sure, SOME damage.

And I solo quite well, even though I am build tank as only tanking.

I use my bow a lot. Some mobs I can kill with 1H andshield + the abilities I have.
But a troll? Forget it!

I am a TANK. I take damage, I survive longer then others.

If you wish to be able to solo as a tank, you have a LOT of skills avaible to you that does do damage. Then again, you may not be able to tank so well.

And if you are playing as a tank, you KNOW there is not one single BEST way to tank anything. All the bosses have difference abilties, events.

And unless you missed it, YES its very good to have a tank in a group dungeon/instance/raid/big events. But this is ESO......there is no BEST way to do something.

I've seen a night blade, my level, who tanked really well. Since I am so much build for tanking, I am not that usefull doing damage, so my role in that group was pretty much stuning/rooting mobs and haress every mob that got interested in the healer.

I dont understand why so many have reasons behind peoples arguments about what working and not, has their bases from other games?

This is ESO, A NEW type of MMO.

For tanks, your skill, combat awareness and speed in adapting how you best can help the group is one of the most challenging and fun things I have done in ANY MMO.

where do you get the impression that I think s/b should be among the best damage skills? In the title I clearly state it needed to be nerfed, but that it was over nerfed.

As I stated, this change has no effect on my ability to tank, so I don't see why you're even mentioning tanking. the only way to deal decent damage with s/b now, is to be magika based. s/b skills deal too little damage to be more than a tickle, and the only other stamina option, fighter's guild skills, are only effective against some of the content.

Maybe i wasn't clear about nightblade in my OP. Its not that I can't make it work, its that I'm frustrated by the amount of broken skills I have to deal with, then to see the crutch I relied so much on get nerfed to oblivion while everything else stays broken.

"but a troll? forget it!" do you mean to say you can't handle a troll? or am I miss understanding?

I am sorry if my whole point of my post had the opposite effect.

What I am saying is that after the FIX (not nerf) of the skill 1H and shield, you are still able to use it to solo and do quests. It is not supposed to be even remotly close to any damage ability. It is what it says. A way to still do some damage with 1 weapon, but the MAIN reason for the shield, is blocking and stunning your enemy at the right moment. It is NOT suppose to compete in damage with lets say 2H.

Just like a healing staff is not really supposed to do much damage. If a screwup happens with healing staffs and you are all of a sudden able to kill a lot with it.....a fix is not a long way off.

And regarding night blades, do you have seen that the DEVS confirmed that MANY night blades skills are not working as intended, and a patch just for you are coming.

Still, in my guild, one of the best damage dealers in my group is a night blade. Not using a shield btw :-p.

Cogo · May 2014

Urvanis wrote: »

"but a troll? forget it!" do you mean to say you can't handle a troll? or am I miss understanding?

As a tank, and I am really build like one, trolls I cant barely kill because they regen up to fast for me to do damage on them. Simular to giants and mammoths.

So, yes, if I use every buff, potions, got a big area to fight in, so I Can stun the troll and change to bow...I CAN kill them

But no. I can tank the troll, but someone else with damage abilties have to kill it.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO · May 2014

So I finally reached veteran ranks and unless it was drastically nerfed in difficulty I see no reason for this thread. I play resto sorc. I am using sword and shiled and resto staff. When I exp I am using puncture, shiled charge or how is that skill called. ONE spell - that basic lighting without morphing. Soul trap and bound armor. And I am wearing full light armor. I can take down 2 mobs at once. I could shuffle skills to be way more effective.

If your key "strategy" was charging mob and bashing it to death I really pity you.

Bash even without jewellery was OP. When I went full spells against harvester I always fought quite long. I do not have many spells unlocked though.

If I shot one crystal shard, charged and then started bashing it went down instantly.

So tell me that it was working properly. Bash still does decent damage and I as sword and shield user am completely fine with it.

Urvanis · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

Urvanis wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Um, I guess I have to state the obvious....1H and Shield is NOT suppose to be among the best damage skills. Sure, SOME damage.

And I solo quite well, even though I am build tank as only tanking.

I use my bow a lot. Some mobs I can kill with 1H andshield + the abilities I have.
But a troll? Forget it!

I am a TANK. I take damage, I survive longer then others.

If you wish to be able to solo as a tank, you have a LOT of skills avaible to you that does do damage. Then again, you may not be able to tank so well.

And if you are playing as a tank, you KNOW there is not one single BEST way to tank anything. All the bosses have difference abilties, events.

And unless you missed it, YES its very good to have a tank in a group dungeon/instance/raid/big events. But this is ESO......there is no BEST way to do something.

I've seen a night blade, my level, who tanked really well. Since I am so much build for tanking, I am not that usefull doing damage, so my role in that group was pretty much stuning/rooting mobs and haress every mob that got interested in the healer.

I dont understand why so many have reasons behind peoples arguments about what working and not, has their bases from other games?

This is ESO, A NEW type of MMO.

For tanks, your skill, combat awareness and speed in adapting how you best can help the group is one of the most challenging and fun things I have done in ANY MMO.

where do you get the impression that I think s/b should be among the best damage skills? In the title I clearly state it needed to be nerfed, but that it was over nerfed.

As I stated, this change has no effect on my ability to tank, so I don't see why you're even mentioning tanking. the only way to deal decent damage with s/b now, is to be magika based. s/b skills deal too little damage to be more than a tickle, and the only other stamina option, fighter's guild skills, are only effective against some of the content.

Maybe i wasn't clear about nightblade in my OP. Its not that I can't make it work, its that I'm frustrated by the amount of broken skills I have to deal with, then to see the crutch I relied so much on get nerfed to oblivion while everything else stays broken.

"but a troll? forget it!" do you mean to say you can't handle a troll? or am I miss understanding?

I am sorry if my whole point of my post had the opposite effect.

What I am saying is that after the FIX (not nerf) of the skill 1H and shield, you are still able to use it to solo and do quests. It is not supposed to be even remotly close to any damage ability. It is what it says. A way to still do some damage with 1 weapon, but the MAIN reason for the shield, is blocking and stunning your enemy at the right moment. It is NOT suppose to compete in damage with lets say 2H.

Just like a healing staff is not really supposed to do much damage. If a screwup happens with healing staffs and you are all of a sudden able to kill a lot with it.....a fix is not a long way off.

And regarding night blades, do you have seen that the DEVS confirmed that MANY night blades skills are not working as intended, and a patch just for you are coming.

Still, in my guild, one of the best damage dealers in my group is a night blade. Not using a shield btw :-p.

But you can can kill with a healing staff. as I stated in my OP. I need only equip my offensive class skills to it and I can deal damage just fine while still being able to heal just fine. This is not possible with s/b. you can block and interrupt with any weapon. and as I've stated yet again, I do not expect it to compete with dps weapons, I only expect it to be relevant.

and sorry to say, but even in my gimped stat, I can solo a troll without issue on my NB tank. It just takes forever, which is the issue I'm having with s/b.

Right now every role but stamina tank can solo effectively.

and the fact that they are aware of the broken nb abilities only enforces that they're prioritizing fixing what works over fixing whats broken.

and judging by your ability to handle a troll, I find it hard to be impressed by one of the best dps in your guild.

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

So I finally reached veteran ranks and unless it was drastically nerfed in difficulty I see no reason for this thread. I play resto sorc. I am using sword and shiled and resto staff. When I exp I am using puncture, shiled charge or how is that skill called. ONE spell - that basic lighting without morphing. Soul trap and bound armor. And I am wearing full light armor. I can take down 2 mobs at once. I could shuffle skills to be way more effective.

If your key "strategy" was charging mob and bashing it to death I really pity you.

Bash even without jewellery was OP. When I went full spells against harvester I always fought quite long. I do not have many spells unlocked though.

If I shot one crystal shard, charged and then started bashing it went down instantly.

So tell me that it was working properly. Bash still does decent damage and I as sword and shield user am completely fine with it.

VR3 (nearly VR4) Nightblade here, using the same weapon combo as you simply to level them up. Actually I pretty much only use the sword & shield weapon set and swap to the resto staff when I complete a quest.

Like you, I'm having no issues taking on 2 or 3 mobs at once. I was using light armor up until VR2 and am now trying out medium just for the hell of it. I prefer sword & shield over 2H and DW as it still puts our decent damage while also boosting my defense in a number of ways.

Bash was too good before and the nerf was justified IMO.