Keep Guard Buffs

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

Did the Craglorn patch fix quite a few things, yes. Are there still many things that need to be fixed, definitely yes. So what was the point of buffing the all the guards in Cyrodiil as well as adding more guards? All this has done is made it exceedingly harder for small groups (3-8 people) to cap anything now. Like if you want to force everyone to zerg in 30+ man groups, then just rename the game mode to Zerg War rather than Alliance War. All the buff did is to encourage more zerging and less small fights. The increase in experience points from Cyrodiil quests doesn't encourage more small fights because V10 players aren't gonna quest they are gonna try and cap objectives and now apparently you want everyone to only run around in large groups to cap objectives. These buffs to keep guards just makes it easier for the alliance with a greater population to rule a campaign and makes it impossible for small groups to contribute in any way besides ganking.

Joykiller · May 2014

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

Did the Craglorn patch fix quite a few things, yes. Are there still many things that need to be fixed, definitely yes. So what was the point of buffing the all the guards in Cyrodiil as well as adding more guards? All this has done is made it exceedingly harder for small groups (3-8 people) to cap anything now. Like if you want to force everyone to zerg in 30+ man groups, then just rename the game mode to Zerg War rather than Alliance War. All the buff did is to encourage more zerging and less small fights. The increase in experience points from Cyrodiil quests doesn't encourage more small fights because V10 players aren't gonna quest they are gonna try and cap objectives and now apparently you want everyone to only run around in large groups to cap objectives. These buffs to keep guards just makes it easier for the alliance with a greater population to rule a campaign and makes it impossible for small groups to contribute in any way besides ganking.

Stop being a baddie, you need to have a zerg to take over keeps. It's a zerg game didn't you know? It's also why they boosted VP/XP from player kills in Cyrodiil to feed more zergs.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

...you are forgetting that smaller population get defensive bonus too.

ANd you are forgetting that lower pops now have a multiplier that gives them boosted AP when underpopulated.

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

...you are forgetting that smaller population get defensive bonus too.

ANd you are forgetting that lower pops now have a multiplier that gives them boosted AP when underpopulated.

Did you even read my post? You think a small party trying to cap a keep by themselves is concerned about how many AP they are getting? And you think that defensive buff is enough to tank the guards, mages, and honor guards inside the objective? For all future posters, please read my entire post before you comment.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

No you are forgeting the purpse of keep boosts. They are there to HELP lower population servers by preventing small raid teams from stealth zerging keeps.

Does this make it hard for low pop server to go out and take stuff? Yes. BUt they shouldn't be on offense at that point in time anyways with such few numbers.

Samadhi · May 2014

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

Did the Craglorn patch fix quite a few things, yes. Are there still many things that need to be fixed, definitely yes. So what was the point of buffing the all the guards in Cyrodiil as well as adding more guards? All this has done is made it exceedingly harder for small groups (3-8 people) to cap anything now. Like if you want to force everyone to zerg in 30+ man groups, then just rename the game mode to Zerg War rather than Alliance War. All the buff did is to encourage more zerging and less small fights. The increase in experience points from Cyrodiil quests doesn't encourage more small fights because V10 players aren't gonna quest they are gonna try and cap objectives and now apparently you want everyone to only run around in large groups to cap objectives. These buffs to keep guards just makes it easier for the alliance with a greater population to rule a campaign and makes it impossible for small groups to contribute in any way besides ganking.

Yeah that's pretty much the sentiment I get in terms of this buff to the NPCs.
I've also read that the guards simply destroy pre-50 characters now, so I guess this will have the additional effect of chasing them further from Cyrodiil.

Joykiller · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Does this make it hard for low pop server to go out and take stuff? Yes. BUt they shouldn't be on offense at that point in time anyways with such few numbers.

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

No you are forgeting the purpse of keep boosts. They are there to HELP lower population servers by preventing small raid teams from stealth zerging keeps.

Does this make it hard for low pop server to go out and take stuff? Yes. BUt they shouldn't be on offense at that point in time anyways with such few numbers.

Do you even know what a zerg is? A small raid team cannot stealth zerg a keep because they are small and are therefore not a zerg. Low pop campaigns are now having issues getting anything done at a reasonable rate, and off-hours players can't do anything. So please, stop arguing for the sake of arguing and actually make a valid point.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

Its called keeps are SUPPOSED to be taken by a sizable force... whether you call it "small raid team" or I call it a ZERG it doesn't matter.

IF servers have too few players to take stuff on the map... then the campgain simply is too underpopulated for effective PvP. TO make PvP epic like it was the first week of launch whereas it took numbers and skill to take keeps (due to NPC strength) this patch is necessary to try to do that agian.

Is it good for low lvls? No. But low lvls have been left behind ages ago.

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Its called keeps are SUPPOSED to be taken by a sizable force... whether you call it "small raid team" or I call it a ZERG it doesn't matter.

IF servers have too few players to take stuff on the map... then the campgain simply is too underpopulated for effective PvP. TO make PvP epic like it was the first week of launch whereas it took numbers and skill to take keeps (due to NPC strength) this patch is necessary to try to do that agian.

Is it good for low lvls? No. But low lvls have been left behind ages ago.

So have you addressed anything I've said, no. Based on your logic, which is Zenimax's logic (i guess you're a little fanboy), people should only run around in zergs and not do anything in small group. Yep, that's great logic, you should go back to 4chan and argue with the kiddies there that don't know how to actually discuss anything.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

...it is an argument against elite guilds AP farming and solo capping (like nighting) the map.

Joykiller · May 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8v_fF0bbqA

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

...it is an argument against elite guilds AP farming and solo capping (like nighting) the map.

Oh yes because there are so many of those running around in Cyrodiil. Any forum moderators, please remove all of the posts that @TheGrandAlliance‌ has made since they are in no way productive and as @Joykiller‌ said he is either a troll or stupid and since I'm a nice guy I'm gonna assume he's a troll.

Joykiller · May 2014

Hey, I'm the entertainment mate. I'll rate this thread for you.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

Before you start to make yourself a fool by calling people trolls: I have 4 threads on the topic for further reading:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/79986/eso-pvp-is-finished-home-of-the-vets

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78709/elite-pvp-guilds-doom-eso

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/66721/do-you-even-care-about-the-emperor-title

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/65758/the-emperor-ap-system-is-broken-move-to-a-guild-based-title

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Before you start to make yourself a fool by calling people trolls: I have 4 threads on the topic for further reading:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/79986/eso-pvp-is-finished-home-of-the-vets

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78709/elite-pvp-guilds-doom-eso

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/66721/do-you-even-care-about-the-emperor-title

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/65758/the-emperor-ap-system-is-broken-move-to-a-guild-based-title

So what you're saying is, is that you were incapable of doing anything in a small group before this buff, so now you're happy that others are forced to zerg as well to compensate for your lack of ability. That's cute. Go to 4chan they'll love you there.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO · May 2014

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Its called keeps are SUPPOSED to be taken by a sizable force... whether you call it "small raid team" or I call it a ZERG it doesn't matter.

IF servers have too few players to take stuff on the map... then the campgain simply is too underpopulated for effective PvP. TO make PvP epic like it was the first week of launch whereas it took numbers and skill to take keeps (due to NPC strength) this patch is necessary to try to do that agian.

Is it good for low lvls? No. But low lvls have been left behind ages ago.

So have you addressed anything I've said, no. Based on your logic, which is Zenimax's logic (i guess you're a little fanboy), people should only run around in zergs and not do anything in small group. Yep, that's great logic, you should go back to 4chan and argue with the kiddies there that don't know how to actually discuss anything.

Small groups should have small objectives. A keep isn't a small objetive. I hate zergs and never join one, but I don't like the idea about 8 people taking a Keep. I like this change and hope Zenimax will include small objectives to us soon.

For the moment, there are many people that don't like zergs and run with small groups looking for another groups to fight. Isn't the best solution but it will give me fun for a time while Zenimax add more content to us.

Alephen · May 2014

man, with these buffs, how can my lvl 10 templar solo keeps? not fair to force us into zerges! /agree

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

T

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Small groups should have small objectives. A keep isn't a small objetive. I hate zergs and never join one, but I don't like the idea about 8 people taking a Keep. I like this change and hope Zenimax will include small objectives to us soon.

For the moment, there are many people that don't like zergs and run with small groups looking for another groups to fight. Isn't the best solution but it will give me fun for a time while Zenimax add more content to us.

If you were on the campaign Bloodthorn, you'd see the issue more prevalently with these buffs. At peak hours, DC will easily be pop-locked and EP will have 2 bars with AD only having 1 bar. DC has enough of a population here at times to zerg vs zerg the EP and AD zergs at the same time. In the past, several of us here would take the long hike (since DC would zerg cap the whole map and just spawn camp both servers) and start attacking keeps and outposts towards their spawn, or in areas away from our spawn, in the hopes that the DC zerg would retract itself from our spawn to respond to us, giving our forces some time to regroup and push out and hopefully cap a keep or two in the meantime. Now with the guards buffed, a small "havoc" squad is essentially no longer a threat to an alliance and the alliance with the highest population will always dominate the map regardless of whatever strategy the opposing alliances use. Planning is basically rendered useless in the face of superior numbers, which goes against how Zenimax originally made the Alliance War to be which was supposed to be, at times, all out full scale battles, BUT would require strategy and planning in order to overcome enemy fortifications. As it stands, the only way to counter larger numbers is with larger numbers, which is what Guild Wars 2 WvW has turned out to become.

So in short, either provide meaningful objectives for small groups to capture (because resources are barely worth any points at all and a keep only needs one to be connected to the transitus), or create a game mechanic which frequently checks the current populations of the factions and significantly increases the amount of siege damage players from a faction can inflict when they have relatively lower populations than another faction; i.e. the highest population server gets no siege damage buff, the second highest gets a 10% increase in siege damage, and the third faction gets a 20%, and relative populations should be greater than 20% difference for the buffs to apply.

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

If anyone from Zenimax reads this, tell whomever is in charge to fire the lead dev for Alliance War and give me his job, I will do his job better than him and for half the pay.

Izatar · May 2014

1) taking keeps was and still is easier for small groups to take. so if a small group can't take a keep, they cant take anything

2) the pop caps are an average population over days. this is so unclever it makes my head spin. it does nothing to do stop large groups from crushing small groups in real-time, but it does add another avenue for exploitation: make toons on the enemy faction and log in 10 minute a day to make the algorithms think it is more populated than reality! more points for you, easier play too!

3) the goal may be to have large faction wars, but these changes bleed even more players out of the game. I really don't know why a company would design a game this complex for a few thousand players! It is madness!

Animus0724 · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Its called keeps are SUPPOSED to be taken by a sizable force... whether you call it "small raid team" or I call it a ZERG it doesn't matter.

IF servers have too few players to take stuff on the map... then the campgain simply is too underpopulated for effective PvP. TO make PvP epic like it was the first week of launch whereas it took numbers and skill to take keeps (due to NPC strength) this patch is necessary to try to do that agian.

Is it good for low lvls? No. But low lvls have been left behind ages ago.

Well sir, there are no skills involved when zerging, thats power in numbers, that's the point of zerging. Smaller groups need more skills and coordination to be effective, a small group of 15 players, they don't even need to all be 50+, can break a wall and cap a keep against a much larger force, if they all work together, I've not only seen this happen, I participated in such a raid. Took longer than we thought, but that sense of accomplishment was worth it, just knowing you and your guild outsmarted a large zerg group.

The guard buffs take this away and force players to zerg out the map essentially eliminating the need for actual skilled players.

Remember, the more players you have in a zerg, the less likely the majority will listen to the group leader.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

Animus0724 wrote: »

Well sir, there are no skills involved when zerging, thats power in numbers, that's the point of zerging.

That is a myth. PLenty of skill in zergs. Esp if ur rival zerg is made up of elites.

People throw around the term "zerg" like it is abad thing or something. By they way... in real life "zergs" win wars: They are called "armies". It is the nature of the universe. Trying to deny it is like to deny Global Warming or something. TO claim there isn't skill involved is to claim that armies lead themselves into war (and to conquest).

Alas... let the /elitewhine and their inablity to socialize with others (due to their hostile nature) continue!...

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Animus0724 wrote: »

Well sir, there are no skills involved when zerging, thats power in numbers, that's the point of zerging.

That is a myth. PLenty of skill in zergs. Esp if ur rival zerg is made up of elites.

People throw around the term "zerg" like it is abad thing or something. By they way... in real life "zergs" win wars: They are called "armies". It is the nature of the universe. Trying to deny it is like to deny Global Warming or something. TO claim there isn't skill involved is to claim that armies lead themselves into war (and to conquest).

Alas... let the /elitewhine and their inablity to socialize with others (due to their hostile nature) continue!...

lol so again you're dumb and not reading all the comments or you just can't understand them, the issue is when one side has a zerg and the other doesn't, the zerg will almost always win unless they are all autistic. Stop replying to this thread if you're not gonna read all the comments before yours.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

lol so again you're dumb and not reading all the comments or you just can't understand them, the issue is when one side has a zerg and the other doesn't, the zerg will almost always win unless they are all autistic. Stop replying to this thread if you're not gonna read all the comments before yours.

...and that is why they buffed keep guards. Reading is a skill. You should try it sometimes.

ishilb14_ESO · May 2014

Izatar wrote: »

1) taking keeps was and still is easier for small groups to take. so if a small group can't take a keep, they cant take anything

2) the pop caps are an average population over days. this is so unclever it makes my head spin. it does nothing to do stop large groups from crushing small groups in real-time, but it does add another avenue for exploitation: make toons on the enemy faction and log in 10 minute a day to make the algorithms think it is more populated than reality! more points for you, easier play too!

3) the goal may be to have large faction wars, but these changes bleed even more players out of the game. I really don't know why a company would design a game this complex for a few thousand players! It is madness!

I've yet to see a 5man group cap a keep after this latest patch. It wasn't easy for them to cap it before, now it's just not possible. And before you say that 5man groups shouldn't be attacking keeps, it's hard to find more than that many players at like 5 am or on low pop campaigns