Sorcerer Skills evaluation

Aziz006 · May 2014

Just shut up please. Sorc is better than NB. No exception!

NordJitsu · May 2014

I don't think I'm treating sorc only as a caster.

I suggested buffs/changes to Lightning Form and Bound Armor that would help Sorcs make better tanks. Making Dark Exchange mobile (work like Lingering Ritual) would also be a buff to sorc tanks and melee sorcs more so than casters, since casters can already use it from range.

Heck, lowering the cost of Encase would also benefit Sorc tanks more so than the casters....

Improving Crystal Blast would solve your "I don't want to spam Fragments" problem.

The pet buffs would also help with tanking....

It seems like the majority of the buffs I suggested are beneficial primarily to tanks. Sorcs are already good casters. Its the other stuff that needs some work (to make them more versatile.)

Good point about Curse though. Its definitely not as useful in PvE. But in my defense, I suggested a single target damage buff.

Ruddertail · May 2014

But then we'd just spam crystal blast instead.

Aziz006 wrote: »

Just shut up please. Sorc is better than NB. No exception!

Not at tanking!

Crescent · May 2014

NB is both a better tank and healer than sorcerer.

And when they get their incoming buffs, DPS as well.

Sorcerer is a middling class who people enjoy in pvp since they are best suited to range play, the safest form of play in zerg and skirmish and have the best escape tool.

In PvE they are outclassed by DK and soon nightblade (when they fix stuff like Haste and Leeching Strikes), and Templars perform right on par with them while having far more group utility.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

Ytterin wrote: »

Actually:
Rune Prison. You are doing this so wrong... The only 2 problems with Rune Prison is that ranged mobs can attack after the spell has gone off, and that pets/followers break the cc almost as a priority while there are other targets to attack. This is applicable under the following conditions: Rune Prison is the first thing cast *On a pull, if you cast Rune Prison on a mob which is ranged it will usually get a light attack. This does not happen if you attack a different mob with a spell that has travel time, and then cast Rune Prison on the same mob you would have.* Rune Prison is an excellent way to help control larger pulls, and has been extremely useful in VR content IMO.
For this skill persistence works for both morphs. Taking Rune Prison does not mean you need to break it immediately!

Bound Armor. Having it on both bars is your choice, to keep it up. It does not normally cost 2 slots. I suppose if you are going with 2 stamina based builds, and want the heavy attack bonus... but then you really wouldn't care about the mana costs that much. Also, I think you are confused about soft caps... you still get some benefit, making the skill still somewhat useful. As for tanking, it may/may not be worth much depending on your setup and the fight involved.

Conjured Ward. It's great for solo, especially when morphed for better self shielding as a full out caster type. Honestly this is a nice 'Oh crud' button for Sorc's without needing to have a resto staff equipped or go running away. There are better spots for group utility, although giving the pet shields to allies if pets are not summoned might be nice (ie. shields 2 allies, pets as priority targets.)

What Sorc's really need is: Some utility additions to some of our abilities, a few adjustments here and there, some fixes to a few abilities, a couple passives replaced with something useful *Namely Disintegrate and the Daedric passives,* and a little bit of damage adjustment in general. We do decently on sustained damage, but the numbers could use a little boost... compared to melee which just seem to get that edge late in the game in terms of overall dps (bugged NBs excluded.) This could easily be fixed by boosting the magicka soft caps late in game a little as a temporary measure, or by adjusting coefficients, or by giving Sorcs a boost to base spell power via replacement of one of the worthless passives. This is largely due to weapon damage, which goes up in the VR areas normally and is essentially useless to caster Sorc builds... whereas the other stats see a reduction in the benefits as you go higher. Itemization changes could fix this too... although it would be more work.

First i would like too point out that the Summoning passive are for TANKING for the most part, dark magic passive you can either augment your groups dps or help with the cc even more, conjured ward is vary nice but needs a cost reduction even with light amour on its like 300 magic too cast over all its great for tanking, bound amour is nice when soloing also mainly used for tanking unless you want too have some kind of ability too stay alive over all as a caster, however i would get the other morph for it BOUND ARMAMENTS for increased damage which will add both dps and some amour without killing dps. I believe scorc and teplars and NBs are the only classes that can restore magic too themselves, with the change in 1.2 it will be much easier for scorc too maintain magic because of the change. As long as you can mange your magic you will not have a issue with sustained dps

steinernein · May 2014

I wonder what would happen if they gave Daedric mines a large AoE (enough so that all 3 or 5 mines could hit a medium or even a small target).

If they increased Bound Armaments to deal 75-100% extra damage for heavy attacks.

If they made dark conversion give stamina and mana in place of health.

And allowed Overload to restore stamina as well, while increasing base damage but make it scale in a polynomial fashion.

Eh whatever.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

steinernein wrote: »

Sorc is a problem class when it comes to diversity compared to other classes and it's a damn pity because I wanted to roll up a battle-mage as well but it's really hard to justify at the moment.

Im ruining a battle mage style of play now, but i went the tankish route not the damage route

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mMkzxxo0zSM0mwE8wAvz8wABe8NUVc8NUkz8NUmo8DohZ8NiRC8NNgI8AIP18NUkz8NUmo8NUod8x7Hrsfd6Lsfw6MwGN16MwGAR6MwGAs6MwGAa6MwGAb8H7JLzfQ6Lzwc6LbHm6MNieh6MNieA6MNieT6MNiey8J7JrziB6LziD6rziO6LziX6NziY6rziZ6MNUIz6MNUIc6MNUIi6MNUIN8K7DLkg6rzuI6Lzuj6MANRQ6MANRU6MANRZ847pzxLCe6cxLDm6cxLDo6cxLDs8zf7ozNbo6rNbk8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

i would do something like this for my damage set up

dtere1_ESO · May 2014

Reading this thread has really made me wonder what levels you all play at. VR Sorcerer is so much different than level 1-50 sorcerer. As well, PVP Sorc is different than PVE Sorc. Some of you keep adding points that only work for one of these situations... but not others.

In level 1-50 PVE, i agree that Overload is an awesome spell. I used it all the time. However, once you hit VR PVE, Overload is pretty worthless for damage. I couldn't get most VR content below half with a full Overload blown on it. As well, if you don't have critical surge in combination with Overload, and up against 3+ mobs, the mobs will kill you before your Overload is completed.

In VR PVE levels, i think the Pulsar nerf was very substantial. Sorcs can do fine vs 1 mob or 2 mob pulls without Pulsar. However, try pulling 3+ mobs without Pulsar in VR PVE content and you will get shamed. You just can't tank that much damage (or blink away that much) per your limited mana pool. Quite frankly, Pulsar was the only way to deal with 3+ mob pulls. Nerfing this skill pretty much destroyed our ability to deal with these pulls.

I really dislike Crystal Fragments because it only works about 1/3rd of the time on boss fights. In fact, hardly any CC works. You don't really know if a snare, knockback, or hard stun will work on a boss until you actually engage them and die once or twice to find out. There really is no sustained health regain strat for sorcs against non-CC'able boss mobs. As well, if you are a vampire you should just give up now.

I'd really like to see a decent build for dealing with VR PVE content that includes was to kill non-CC'able bosses, 3+ mobs, and 1 or 2 mob pulls that don't take forever to down. Even with the magica increase on Pulsar, i will likely still use it with more auto-attacks between shots.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

First, two things I disagree with:

Daedric Curse

This is an excellent skill. Its the only good skill in the Daedric Summoning tree (which is the worst skill line in the game, by far.)

I think some people don't realize this damage CANNOT BE BLOCKED. That makes it a great counter to shield bash spammers who perm-block.

Bolt Escape

Making this target based or adding a cool down would destroy this skill. There is absolutely no place in this game for cool downs. Making this require a target would be silly as that would transform it from an escape skill (that can double as a gap closer) into a pure gap closer. Its simply not what its designed to be.

Also, Ball of Lightning is not the better morph. Only cowards use it to escape. Streak is actually quite a nice skill. It doesn't do a lot of damage (though it does when it procs Disintegration) but its great for the stun, battlefield mobility, and the little bit of added DPS it does provide.

Second, here's the changes I'd like to see, since I mostly agree with your feedback.

Daedric Summoning

All the pets should take only 1 skill slot. There's no way around it. No matter what else you do, pets will NEVER be useful as long as they take double skill slots.

Pets also need better AI. They should sneak when you go into stealth. The should not attack targets that are under a breakable CC. You should be able to direct their attack, such as by pressing CNTRL + The corresponding skill button while targeting an enemy.

Clanfear

Needs more health. Needs more spell resistance. Needs more damage. Needs to scale with my health and damage.

Daedric Curse

Although I think its a decent skill already, it could use a damage buff. Its one of our only options to counter Reflective Scales and shield-spammers. It needs to hit hard.

Maybe don't increase the AoE but just increase the single target.

Twilight

Same as Clanfear. More everything. Should only take 1 slot.

Bound Armor

Should also increase Spell Resistance by a small amount (less than Lightning Form.)

Conjured Ward

Like all damage shields, it needs to take your spell resistance and armor into account when calculating its mitigation.

Storm Atronoch

Is pretty much fine as is.

Dark Magic

Three of the 5 skills in this line are fairly solid (Shards, Encase, Exchange) and 2 are pure garbage.

Crystal Shard

Crystal Blast just needs to be better. It needs to hit way harder against the other targets to make it any kind of contender for Fragments.

Encase

I think it could use a cost reduction. Crescent is right that its not worth it a lot of the time since other AoE CC (like Volcanic Rune) are better for cheaper.

Rune Prison

There needs to be some sort of damage allowance so AoEs and/or pets don't accidentally break your targets out of their Prison.

Maybe they could take 150 points of damage before the shield breaks.

Dark Exchnage

Keep the cast time but make it mobile. Basically, have it work like Restoring Ritual from the Templar line.

Daedric Mines

Replace it. Seriously cannot think of a way to salvage this skill without a major revamp.

Maybe turn it into instant cast in its base form....idk. I think this would be a good spot for an AoE nuke. Daedric Bomb instead. You call it down from the sky and it immobilizes and damages enemies in a radius.

Storm Calling

Mages Fury

Again the only problem is that one of the morphs is useless. No who knows what they are doing would ever pick Mages Wrath.

Lightning Form

Slight damage increase.

Near the end of Beta this got hit with a ridiculous nerf that both reduced the armor and spell resistance as well as drastically reducing the damage. The first nerf is okay but the skill needs that damage back to make this a tanking skill to rival DKs.

Lightning Splash

Increase the damage....like double. Maybe tripple.

Seriously, this thing barely tickles right now. What were you thinking? Its a ground based AoE. They can just walk out of it. But right now there's hardly a reason to move out of it.

Surge

I think this skill and both morphs are pretty much fine as is. Crescent is right that Molten Armaments is a bit better (longer duration, also buffs group) but the skill is still good as is. Could maybe increase the duration on based skill and both morphs.

Bolt Escape

I'm happy with it. Streak could maybe hit a bit harder. I still don't think the mana regen debuff is necessary and it encourages people to use this skill to run rather than fight.

the ONLY thing i dont agree with is the spell resit for bound amour, just cuz it would be OP, if I was using 5 piece heavy amour(im a tank dont currently use heavy amour), 2 light with bound amour, my amour stats would be dumb high in addition too the block reduction from light amour and sword and bored holly god would i be close too god mode for tanking. my amour and spell resit would be at or above 2k

NordJitsu · May 2014

Its definitely not true that NBs are better healers.

On par maybe, but not flat better.

Sorcs passives and Dark Exchange are amazing for PvE healing. They also have abilities like Lightning Pool which (while useless on its own) can be great for group play because you can sit in back and heal, drop Pool, and let them pop the synergy.

steinernein · May 2014

I think Siphoning Attacks and Funnel Health puts a NB healer above a Sorc under many conditions. Furthermore, a NB healer can use things like Dark Shades to decrease damage intake. And also, there's always soul shred , veil of blades or whatever.

The nice thing about Sorc comes down to dark conversion which is good for those moments where you have to chain heal and Negate Magic (which is pretty damn god like).

dtere1_ESO wrote: »

In level 1-50 PVE, i agree that Overload is an awesome spell. I used it all the time. However, once you hit VR PVE, Overload is pretty worthless for damage. I couldn't get most VR content below half with a full Overload blown on it. As well, if you don't have critical surge in combination with Overload, and up against 3+ mobs, the mobs will kill you before your Overload is completed.

That's because you aren't itemized for Overload to be worth it. Do you really think you can reach 2500+ magicka without VR gear? Not to mention the extra unlisted spell damage that comes with VR gear (and spell damage on rings). Do you not even read the thread?

dtere1_ESO wrote: »

In VR PVE levels, i think the Pulsar nerf was very substantial. Sorcs can do fine vs 1 mob or 2 mob pulls without Pulsar. However, try pulling 3+ mobs without Pulsar in VR PVE content and you will get shamed. You just can't tank that much damage (or blink away that much) per your limited mana pool. Quite frankly, Pulsar was the only way to deal with 3+ mob pulls. Nerfing this skill pretty much destroyed our ability to deal with these pulls.

Volatile Familiar much? Do you even play the sorc class? You also realize we can still single target things down even with 3 mobs per pack right without resorting to jank. Did you forget how to CC or something? 4 mobs? Still not an issue. You also can just say F it and use pulsar anyways. 2k+ magicka and 50% crit is more than enough.

dtere1_ESO wrote: »

I really dislike Crystal Fragments because it only works about 1/3rd of the time on boss fights. In fact, hardly any CC works. You don't really know if a snare, knockback, or hard stun will work on a boss until you actually engage them and die once or twice to find out. There really is no sustained health regain strat for sorcs against non-CC'able boss mobs. As well, if you are a vampire you should just give up now.

I'd really like to see a decent build for dealing with VR PVE content that includes was to kill non-CC'able bosses, 3+ mobs, and 1 or 2 mob pulls that don't take forever to down. Even with the magica increase on Pulsar, i will likely still use it with more auto-attacks between shots.

It's called kiting, creative use of summons, dark conversion, using pots, using terrain. You make it more complicated than it seems.

Crescent · May 2014

Yeah unfortunately the standard for this game has become DK's ignoring any fight subtleties and just brute forcing it via corrosive armor and battle standard alongside cinderstorm. Templars can also tank well most fights while retaining considerable output.

And given the option most people will go for the faceroll class that can walk in and self heal to hell while having ridiculously strong AoE output. Right now DK's are eclipsing Templars but when that is gone people will realize that Templars also happen to have incredibly good output on top of healing and group utility.

Sorcerer (without Impulse spam) and NB simply require a bit more finesse. But I agree completely that saying 4 mob packs are hard as a caster sorc to be sort of laughable given how much you can spam with light armor cost reduction and magicka regen. And in the case you get a pack with lots of difficult archers/casters you just Ball of Lightning every 6 seconds and become immune to those mobs while dealing with the melee.

But Crystal Shard spam and Pulsar spam bores me to tears. Everytime I see a sorcerer out in the world go past me and see him impulse spam even at only 2 mobs or even one mob I shake my head. And in the case of DK's an aoe spell actually becomes their best DPS spell period as is the case with the DK soloing Bogdan and all the other world and dungeon bosses.