Why are experience rewards lvl 1-50 so backwards in this game?

koregen · May 2014

It seems the easier something is to do the more experience it gives you. Any content that is actually a challenge gives like no experience reward. How can you screw up this game up so badly I don't understand. There are only 2 ways to level up to 50.

#1 Aoe grinding - by far the easiest and most mind numbing way to level. It takes 0 skill and it is by far the fastest way to gain levels. It honestly feels like you are exploiting the game doing this but when you look at the slower alternative it's the only way to go.

#2 Solo quest grind - This is the second fastest way to level. Once again takes no skill just a bunch of running around from spot to spot. Worst part is you are playing solo the entire time. I thought the idea of playing an MMO was to play with others.

Dungeons give so little experience it's a joke. The only time they are even worth doing at all is if you have the quest. Even then though it's hard to justify doing them at all, only reason I even bother is for the skill point.

Soloing some of the stronger bosses in the world like gargoyles is a lot of fun and a challenge especially playing a class like a nightblade. However, when you see your experience reward after defeating one you can't help but sigh. From this point forward you do your best to avoid fighting any of them because it is a complete waste of time.

I finally started having some fun in PVE when i got to V1 and realized that world bosses, dungeon bosses and dark anchors give great experience. The content was a lot of fun, I was forced to form groups for a good portion of it, best of all my experience bar was actually moving.

Then you finish all the content and realize you are only 3/4 of the way to V4. Now what? Dungeons do give a good amount of experience but unless you have a pre-formed group with at least 1 dragonknight they are extremely difficult to complete. To make matters worse I play a nightblade that brings absolutely nothing to group content. By having me in group my group is at an automatic disadvantage. I don't even bother attempting dungeons anymore if a second nightblade joins the group. I just hit Vet 4 and I refuse to solo grind quests... I don't know how I'm going to level up. To make things worse they are already increasing the level cap to vet 12. I just want to pvp but it's pointless until I'm max level sigh.

Axer · May 2014

Pretty sure it's because ZO seems to hate group players.

They make an mmo that caters 100% to antisocial solo players, and at every turn where you try to group, the game just gets mad at you for it.

Makes no sense for a mmo, but it seems to be 100% ZOs focus.

Especially with the trial coming up being designed for 12 solo players, unaffiliated, that never work together to get loot or build friendships together.

And yea nightblade is insanely underpowered atm, to the point that taking them along on tough VR dungeons is very dangerous.

Next patch expect nerfs to nightblade and buffs to DKs.

Elirienne · May 2014

@Axer , I do not think you know what antisocial means. You do realise that you are sitting in front of a computer , right? And if your definition of social is doing quests and dungeons with others, then your "social life" is pressing buttons with other people who are also pressing buttons?

Playing solo does not make anyone antisocial. It's a player preference. I am crazy busy during the day with work and social stuff (you know, going out with friends and whatnot) and when I play, I want to play a story on my own, turn my brain off and just enjoy the game.

This is probably a stronger-than-needed reaction, but I feel insulted by your antisocial comment.

Axer · May 2014

So I guess people who talk on the phone/skype/mumble, enjoy teamwork and group aspects of video games a lot... Are antisocial by your definition?

I know exactly what it means and I think you are very closed minded if you think MMOs that prefer to group and chat a lot are not social players.

And no, just because you prefer to play solo a lot doesn't make you antisocial either. It's YOU INFERING that YOU are the player type im referring to.

I said nothing of the sort. I said they cater to that sort of player. If you feel you are that sort of player, you are insulting yourself, not me.

The types of posters who feel every post is personally directed at them I could go on forever about. But the fact is, you aren't that important, so no. It's not you. It's everyone who hates anyone who enjoys grouping and feels they should be rewarded as much if not more, they are antisocial.

Elirienne · May 2014

"They make a MMO that caters 100% to antisocial solo players"

Are you trying to say that what you meant here, is that there are social solo players and antisocial solo players, and that TESO caters for the second type?

Do not make me laugh. We both know very well what you meant.

I do not attempt to define antisocial, but playing a video game on your own no more makes you antisocial than watching tv on your own, or walking in the park on your own. On the other hand, people whose social life is only online / within games, are pretty sad, but that's my personal opinion.

Khuul99 · May 2014

Elirienne wrote: »

I do not attempt to define antisocial, but playing a video game on your own no more makes you antisocial than watching tv on your own, or walking in the park on your own. On the other hand, people whose social life is only online / within games, are pretty sad, but that's my personal opinion.

We can go in circles all day long but your truly defensive manner in this is astonishing.
Why did you feel so pointed out that you had to "defend" yourself with creating some fictive story about how your real life is so "social" (it's a post on an internet forum for an online game, we do not believe your written story anyhow) and then implicate that the person you're raging on is exactly what you call antisocial (you assume he has no life outside the online world).

It's a nice troll post and amusing initself.

To the OP, I agree on your observations for this online game and maybe we can focus on that instead.
I apologize for derailing it further but I just couldn't help myself.

Axer · May 2014

Elirienne wrote: »

"They make a MMO that caters 100% to antisocial solo players"

Are you trying to say that what you meant here, is that there are social solo players and antisocial solo players, and that TESO caters for the second type?

Do not make me laugh. We both know very well what you meant.

I do not attempt to define antisocial, but playing a video game on your own no more makes you antisocial than watching tv on your own, or walking in the park on your own. On the other hand, people whose social life is only online / within games, are pretty sad, but that's my personal opinion.

Like I said, don't care what you believe.

I have my intentions.

And I'm a very content and fun loving person. I know a ton of people who have tons of real life friends who are a lot sadder then me.

Personally I wouldn't pidgeon whole an entire massive subset of the playerbase like that one way of the other though. People are people. Some enjoy and must have physical interaction and are amazing players, some don't. Not fair for me, or anyone else to judge them on it.

I believe thu human mind requires social interaction to function at it's best, but physical social interaction is not required at all. That's required for more advanced relationships for sure, but some people are simply not at a point in there life where they want to focus on that. That doesn't make them sad at all.

Elirienne · May 2014

Khuul99 wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

I do not attempt to define antisocial, but playing a video game on your own no more makes you antisocial than watching tv on your own, or walking in the park on your own. On the other hand, people whose social life is only online / within games, are pretty sad, but that's my personal opinion.

We can go in circles all day long but your truly defensive manner in this is astonishing.
Why did you feel so pointed out that you had to "defend" yourself with creating some fictive story about how your real life is so "social" (it's a post on an internet forum for an online game, we do not believe your written story anyhow) and then implicate that the person you're raging on is exactly what you call antisocial (you assume he has no life outside the online world).

It's a nice troll post and amusing initself.

To the OP, I agree on your observations for this online game and maybe we can focus on that instead.
I apologize for derailing it further but I just couldn't help myself.

I reacted defensively because I felt insulted by the OP saying that solo players are antisocial. Simple as that. I said it right in my first post, so you just wasted a lot of your own time attacking it.

Elirienne · May 2014

Axer wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

"They make a MMO that caters 100% to antisocial solo players"

Are you trying to say that what you meant here, is that there are social solo players and antisocial solo players, and that TESO caters for the second type?

Do not make me laugh. We both know very well what you meant.

I do not attempt to define antisocial, but playing a video game on your own no more makes you antisocial than watching tv on your own, or walking in the park on your own. On the other hand, people whose social life is only online / within games, are pretty sad, but that's my personal opinion.

Like I said, don't care what you believe.

I have my intentions.

And I'm a very content and fun loving person. I know a ton of people who have tons of real life friends who are a lot sadder then me.

Personally I wouldn't pidgeon whole an entire massive subset of the playerbase like that one way of the other though. People are people. Some enjoy and must have physical interaction and are amazing players, some don't. Not fair for me, or anyone else to judge them on it.

I believe thu human mind requires social interaction to function at it's best, but physical social interaction is not required at all. That's required for more advanced relationships for sure, but some people are simply not at a point in there life where they want to focus on that. That doesn't make them sad at all.

It was you that started it by pigeonholing an entire subset of players by saying that solo players are antisocial, friend. We both know what you meant and you are now trying to weasel yourself out of it by twisting it around. I think there is really nowhere to go for us from here. I said my piece, now back to playing. *waves*

Badh0rse · May 2014

koregen wrote: »

It seems the easier something is to do the more experience it gives you. Any content that is actually a challenge gives like no experience reward. How can you screw up this game up so badly I don't understand. There are only 2 ways to level up to 50.

#1 Aoe grinding - by far the easiest and most mind numbing way to level. It takes 0 skill and it is by far the fastest way to gain levels. It honestly feels like you are exploiting the game doing this but when you look at the slower alternative it's the only way to go.

#2 Solo quest grind - This is the second fastest way to level. Once again takes no skill just a bunch of running around from spot to spot. Worst part is you are playing solo the entire time. I thought the idea of playing an MMO was to play with others.

Dungeons give so little experience it's a joke. The only time they are even worth doing at all is if you have the quest. Even then though it's hard to justify doing them at all, only reason I even bother is for the skill point.

Soloing some of the stronger bosses in the world like gargoyles is a lot of fun and a challenge especially playing a class like a nightblade. However, when you see your experience reward after defeating one you can't help but sigh. From this point forward you do your best to avoid fighting any of them because it is a complete waste of time.

I finally started having some fun in PVE when i got to V1 and realized that world bosses, dungeon bosses and dark anchors give great experience. The content was a lot of fun, I was forced to form groups for a good portion of it, best of all my experience bar was actually moving.

Then you finish all the content and realize you are only 3/4 of the way to V4. Now what? Dungeons do give a good amount of experience but unless you have a pre-formed group with at least 1 dragonknight they are extremely difficult to complete. To make matters worse I play a nightblade that brings absolutely nothing to group content. By having me in group my group is at an automatic disadvantage. I don't even bother attempting dungeons anymore if a second nightblade joins the group. I just hit Vet 4 and I refuse to solo grind quests... I don't know how I'm going to level up. To make things worse they are already increasing the level cap to vet 12. I just want to pvp but it's pointless until I'm max level sigh.

Be careful my friend. The fan boys will tear you apart with false logic and pick one thing you say out of your post and flame you for it. The game is exactly as you say ... quest or AoE grind to level .... it's really stupid. I personally love the core of the game so I am sticking it out waiting for someone to pull their head out their butt and fix it. Your concern is a valid one ... ignore the haters that are having their play style catered to. If Dungeons, PvP, or another activity they don't like was the only viable way to level you can bet your butt that they would be crying to high heaven for a change.

koregen · May 2014

I'll add this to my original post. The way repairs work in this game is every time you gain experience you take a certain amount of armor damage regardless of whether you got hit. Each kill that you participated in you take a flat amount of armor repair, which then costs you gold to fix.

Now let's jump into VR content where you earn 42VR points for a kill, at VR4 I need like 1.8 million VR points to level up. It became clear really quick to me that actually fighting anything gives me nothing and just costs me time and a repair bill. Due to flawed design my whole goal is to fight as little as possible and just sneak my way to the end quest/boss. It's the craziest design I've ever seen in an MMO, where you actually get punished for fighting.

Armor damage from fighting should be minimal, armor damage for a death should be significant. It's like they are re-inventing the wheel and felt that a square design would work better.

Aoe grinding was pretty funny, I quickly realized that it's so easy to do you actually don't even need armor in the first place(thank you OP fighters guild abilities). So just to recap, fastest experience gain in game is removing all your equipment, and spamming fighters guild silver arrows.

How long was this game being developed for? What was it's budget? How does a company with such a long development cycle and such a big budget screw up some of the fundamental concepts so badly is a little baffling. This games PVE is a complete failure, thank god they were at least smart enough to adapt DAOC's pvp design otherwise this game would have been a complete disaster.

The pvp is the only thing that makes this game worth playing, even though it needs lots of balancing and fixes on broken abilities and passives, it is still fun and is the best pvp on the market right now.

Trials timed leaderboard... lol is this some kind of a joke? Or is this a sneaky attempt by the company to find all the exploiters and exploits? This leaderboard will represent nothing more except the guys that are the best at exploiting content. Any groups actually trying to do the fights as they were designed to be fought will never land a spot on the leaderboard.

drogon1 · May 2014

I have made multiple posts about this already. Needless to say, I completely agree with the OP and am - yes - stunned, that a modern MMO forces you to grind almost exclusively through single player content to max level. And only then - at max level - is grouping rewarded with xp.

It's completely bass ackward, and surprising to anyone who loves the MMO genre.

And it has many negative consequences, such as:

ONE, rendering the playing of a tank or healer essentially meaningless pre-VR content. I mean, why make a character specialized for group content (tank/heals) when 99% of what you MUST DO to advance your character is single player content?

TWO, rendering the playing of alts meaningless. Not only must you grind single player content to advance your alt, but you must grind through the EXACT SAME single player content (if your alt is in the same faction).

I love the gameplay, the pvp, and other things about the game. But I am also hanging on a thread hoping that someone pulls their head out of their behind and takes note of Captain Obvious slamming their head on the monitor.

There is wonderful content in the game to level by: dungeons, questing, and pvp. Make all of them viable ways to advance your character.