No Love....again!

mark.markandb16_ESO · May 2014

So ...we reach version 1.08 and still there is no attempt to fix the current issues with crafting. There is no word on improving the searching of the guild store...which makes it not worthwhile crafting gear to sell on there. This is the best MMO I have played for 5 years and has such potential, but I seriously believe that you guys are focusing your labours in the wrong areas.

The..."I wanna be at cap" gang which you are looking to cater for with the next expansion.....will just race through your new content as fast as possible and then come here moaning there is nothing to do....and will leave anyway.

If you continue to ignore the crafters / the economy you will loose the foundations to the game which hold up much of the infrastructure.

I find it so dis-heartening each week to find out all you have done is fixed some minor bugs in a handful of quests.

Please , pull you finger out and tackle some of the massive issues that we have all reported with respect to crafting/guild banks/economy before it's too late.

Iluvrien · May 2014

If I might make a suggestion of something I tend to consider, while reading the news posts and patch notes, it is this common saying:

"Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack."

What I mean by this is that not finding a fix announced in the patch notes tells you only that they have have not completed a fix to the point where they want to release it. It does not tell you about:

1) Problems that are in development but for which no fix has currently been found.
2) Problems where a fix has been found, but the fix in question has not been developed/implemented/tested enough for it to be included in the next (couple of) patch(es).

If the "Road Ahead" post by the devs taught me anything it was that they do seem to be aware of what goes on here on the forums.

As such, take heart and hope that these things probably are indeed being worked on, they just haven't been completed yet.

...of course, that is only my own view.

RomedyMC · May 2014

I absolutely echo Iluvrien. I would also add that bug fixes are often simple and straight-forward one identified, meaning they get fixed rapidly and en masse due to ease. What you are speaking to is not at all straight-forward and requires re-envisioning an entire game system.

I agree that the search engine for the stores needs to be seriously reworked. (Addons can help this ailment for now.) I also believe there needs to be a Trade channel even though I am absolutely guilty of spamming "WTS Glyphs!" etc.

However, I would offer a little challenge. The "I wanna be at cap" gang, hereafter referred to as hardcore, drive youtube and stream views, which in turn drives other players to play. I agree that we cannot discount the crafters and casual gamers, but we in turn cannot discount the impact the hardcore crowd has on a game. Providing them content in the form of unique and challenging fights can help generate population.

I completely understand your anger and frustration, but you cannot expect an entire system to be rewritten overnight. (If you can do this, start your own company and go make your millions.) You can play Captain Hindsight all you want, but the reality is the Devs have given us, the players, the unique ability to influence their game design. I really believe that.

Thete · May 2014

Iluvrien wrote: »

What I mean by this is that not finding a fix announced in the patch notes tells you only that they have have not completed a fix to the point where they want to release it. It does not tell you about:

1) Problems that are in development but for which no fix has currently been found.
2) Problems where a fix has been found, but the fix in question has not been developed/implemented/tested enough for it to be included in the next (couple of) patch(es).

Putting a comprehensive search feature into the guild store is not something for which they don't have a solution. It is a simple feature which should never have been absent in the first place. As people have said before, this game doesn't have to have the same features as other MMOs, but where it does include a feature then it should be at least as functional as in other games.

Iluvrien · May 2014

Thete wrote: »

Putting a comprehensive search feature into the guild store is not something for which they don't have a solution. It is a simple feature which should never have been absent in the first place. As people have said before, this game doesn't have to have the same features as other MMOs, but where it does include a feature then it should be at least as functional as in other games.

I am afraid I am not entirely sure I grasp your logic here... you seem to be saying that the inclusion of a comprehensive search feature should be a semi-instantaneous inclusion...

...on the basis that other closed source, unlikely to be on an identical code base, MMOs already have one.

This isn't a case of copy and paste. Even if they decided on launch day that they should think about extending the existing functionality to include this feature it would still take time to write the code for and test. Especially considering how forgiving this playerbase has proven itself to be with regards to buggy content.

That was rather the point of my post... not hearing about the release of a feature, even a whole 6 weeks after launch day, doesn't mean they aren't working on it.

Thete · May 2014

Iluvrien wrote: »

...on the basis that other closed source, unlikely to be on an identical code base, MMOs already have one.

On the basis that it's an obvious part of the overall mechanism. Buying a new car only to find it has no steering wheel, you're hardly going to be placated by the dealer telling you that it takes time to put one in.

Iluvrien · May 2014

Thete wrote: »

On the basis that it's an obvious part of the overall mechanism. Buying a new car only to find it has no steering wheel, you're hardly going to be placated by the dealer telling you that it takes time to put one in.

So obvious, in fact, that they intentionally chose not to include it...

To use your own analogy, this is far more like buying a car that does indeed run but has an overly complicated mechanism to wind down the windows, i.e. something that is entirely optional in function but still, should you choose to do so, is pointlessly costing you time and a degree of annoyance.

And just to be clear, I am in favour of a better search functionality being integrated into guild stores. I am not, however, of the opinion that it is likely to arrive immediately. Especially if I am to expect it to work as intended.

huntgod_ESO · May 2014

Using your window analogy, the crank to lower the windows is on the outside of the door, so you have to stop the vehicle and get out to roll the windows up and down. A laborious and irritating mechanic, but it is there nonetheless.

There is a search function for the guild stores, you scan each page, then go the next one, rinse and repeat.

At least you can filter a little bit now...

I suggest DL'ing the bank search add on, which allows text string searches and will search all guild stores you can access.

mark.markandb16_ESO · May 2014

@Illuvrien You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

I am a casual player that likes to take my time in game and experience all the facets said game has to offer along the way.

You say ...to fix things like the guild bank is complicated and will not happen over-night. I see it as , how the hell does a company launch a game with such a glaring omission, that is so bad, it should receive top priority rather than adding more content .

Even a " We are working on this and hope to have it fixed in X weeks" would be something to look forward to.

Iluvrien · May 2014

@mark.markandb16_ESO of course you are entitled to your opinion, I am even enjoying contrasting your opinion with my own.

Just for the record, I too am what people might describe as a casual player. I am in no hurry to reach the end of existing content. Nor do I have much interest in raiding or PvP. I actually spend most of my time crafting, or gathering for later crafting sessions.

Your good self, and @Thete‌ , both seem to be of the view that such an omission as the guild store search should never have been missing in the first place, and if it was missing then it should be the top priority.

My question is: What evidence do you have that it isn't being worked on as a top priority?

The further content, in this case Craglorn, is unlikely to be something they started working on immediately upon release. ESO is said to have been in development since 2007, and while I am not alleging that it has been worked on for all of that time, it is certainly more likely than not that it was reaching its final stages before early access or launch. The point of all of that is to suggest that releasing Craglorn probably isn't a symptom of ignoring issues, of the kind you have raised, but more likely the completion of an ongoing process that was already well advanced that may, or may not, now release more developers to work on some of the things highlighted by the community.

That said, I also think it may be down to a team-structured approach. The team that was developing Craglorn (and other new content) may have been the concept artists, modellers, texture painters and so on... and not the UI coders/fixers. As such, the correct people may already be working on this. We just haven't heard about it.

More communication would be nice, however in your statement...

" We are working on this and hope to have it fixed in X weeks"

...you present a significant difficulty. A timeline. Maybe the reason they haven't announced this is because they don't know what "X" is? If they give a timeline without being sure of it, they immediately open themselves to charges of "lying" or "bait and switch" in an effort to retain subs, or any other reason a touchy and entitled playerbase is likely to select as a bat to beat them with.

Much better to stay quiet until they are certain and then please us all with a delivery-as-planned.

...that said, although I am content to be patient for the time being, if they don't improve the Guild Story search function at all then I am going to be seriously unhappy...

mark.markandb16_ESO · May 2014

Illuvrien....In answer to your question "How do I know it is not being worked on as a priority" My reply would be If the guy that designed it can't fix it and get it working properly within 6 weeks....he is utterly incompetent and should be fired. Of course it could be that no-one is looking at the problem as it is way down the priority list .

I work in a customer service environment within a specific engineering discipline. As part of our service we are actively encouraged to give estimated times for completion to our customers. Yes, sometimes we do not meet the proposed due date, but we make it our goal to contact the customer as soon as we know we are going to miss a deadline and let him know what has happened. A new deadline is then agreed, but always with the proviso that this is "the expected date for completion". 95% of the time the customer, although a little displeased that he is not getting his product when he expected , is happy with the communication and accepts the delay.

In my opinion, any communication, good or bad, is better practise that none at all.

I think maybe I am just a little more impatient than you regarding this fix as I have always liked selling stuff that I make and under the current system It is just not feasible.

RomedyMC · May 2014

I sell stuff I make all the time in Davon's Watch.

Zegarelix · May 2014

The guild store has three major problems:

(1) Bad design of item categories used in filtering;

(2) Buggy implementation within that (bad) design: response to filters seems to be erratic;

(3) An omission of even simple text filtering/search.

Of these (1) needs most development time. On the other hand, (3) may require a few hours time for development and twice that for testing. This does not have to be some relational DB functionality: just a simple last-minute filter before display is enough.

My company develops real-time software products which typically sell at $200-400k per license. Usually we add (or fix) features like this withis a week from deciding to. In a well-structured application fixes like this have nothing to do with the overall complexity of the software (which, admittedly, is quite overwhelming in this case).

Hope ZMO and Bethesda will do something about this, as it is a completely unnecessary fly in the ointment of what is otherwise an excellent product.

And, still, I can't see how including guild stores instead a global auction hall makes the game better.

mark.markandb16_ESO · May 2014

There will be no scheduled maintenance for the European megaserver on May 20th

Woohoo....in other words...since last Friday you have achieved nothing of significant importance.

I'm voting with my wallet and will not be renewing my sub until this is fixed.
I hope everyone enjoys Craiglorn