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Are you fed up of the constant nerfs & nerf threads for PvP balance?
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evLRise✭✭✭✭NoNightblade is trash in PvP because of how overperforming the masteries are in PvE.
Shimmering Frenzy is useless because of PvE.
Azureblight was destroyed and is unplayable because of PvE.
Arca is unplayable in PvP due to how much the kit is built around the beam, which is purely PvE skill.
Arkay's Charity got gutted due to PvE groups abusing bugs.
Pillager's was nerfed due to PvE.
GLS was nerfed due to PvE.
Nightblades lost the weapon damage on bow proc due to PvE.
All those afect PvP. Should I go on? It goes both ways. What a completely nonsensical post.There's Dunmers and there's N'wahs5 -
Daoin✭✭✭✭✭NoXVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
[snip]
some people are toxic it does not matter what group they belong to or want to be in, toxic can even be funny sometimes in the right circumstances but theres just no way toxism (the bad kind) is anywhere near the in any crowd the point of toxism from the endgame community those guys can say some cruel crazy things ingame sometimes to new players would not be so bad even they even knew the people they were trash chatting to sometimes, but gotta keep in mind too sometimes some people are just having a bad hair day
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:160 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭✭YesMorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
I find dedicated PvP players to be the most whiny and entitled part of the ESO playerbase, since any changes in their pet classes make them shake in fear they will lose a match or two, resulting in barrage of complaining posts.
But I hold my tongue most of the time, and I don't snap at them like they are crazy when they say some class is jankier than another.
If me jokingly imagining world peace without PvP in ESO hit you personally, that is not my problem.
[snip]
I do read my own posts, worry not.
Last time I checked reading them, I'm certainly not behind all those "nerf this" or "nerf that" posts often flooding the forum.
I do criticize a lot, that much is true.
Since you seem to read my posts often, you should notice - even then - I'm not targetting users directly.
I criticize the ideas themselves, and the entitled attitude I sometimes see.
If the shoe fits for someone, it's still nothing personal from my side.
The poll in this thread shows majority of people who bothered to vote are fed up about constant posts demanding nerfs/buffs/changes to PvP, so maybe "people who are doing most of the whining" do have a leg to stand on.
A lot of recent discussions are just about those topics.
Maybe PvP discussions do need their own section on the forum, so General can stay general, not "PvP and sometimes other topics" section.
That way ZOS can even have the little PvP feedback corner and discussions to browse and filter through, in addition to the feedback system they already implemented.
As for the tone
I cannot be responsible for people reading my posts with mean voice, especially if they disagree with me.
And even if I'm objectively the Regina George here - my posts are not meaner than things I had directed at me or others I've seen.
Vestige's reply to me was one of those, I only replied in kind, and still didn't target them personally.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:275 -
StrandedMonkey✭✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »
I do read my own posts, worry not.
Last time I checked reading them, I'm certainly not behind all those "nerf this" or "nerf that" posts often flooding the forum.
I do criticize a lot, that much is true.
Since you seem to read my posts often, you should notice - even then - I'm not targetting users directly.
I criticize the ideas themselves, and the entitled attitude I sometimes see.
If the shoe fits for someone, it's still nothing personal from my side.
The poll in this thread shows majority of people who bothered to vote are fed up about constant posts demanding nerfs/buffs/changes to PvP, so maybe "people who are doing most of the whining" do have a leg to stand on.
A lot of recent discussions are just about those topics.
Maybe PvP discussions do need their own section on the forum, so General can stay general, not "PvP and sometimes other topics" section.
That way ZOS can even have the little PvP feedback corner and discussions to browse and filter through, in addition to the feedback system they already implemented.
As for the tone
I cannot be responsible for people reading my posts with mean voice, especially if they disagree with me.
And even if I'm objectively the Regina George here - my posts are not meaner than things I had directed at me or others I've seen.
Vestige's reply to me was one of those, I only replied in kind, and still didn't target them personally.
I can't man, this is insane "yea all pvpers are bad, horrible people - they've said some mean things to me and now I think they should be completely obliterated from the game and given no platform for formal discussion."
From [snip] to boomer, some of you guys need to grow up. To have such disdain for a group of players in this game it's quite ironic you'll fight everywhere but in the game itself against them - but that's nothing personal I'm not referring to you directly.
Out of all the threads you've seen so far have you bothered to do any research into what they're asking for or do you think the post, whatever it may be about, is immediately invalid because they're talking about something you don't like?
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:404 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesNerfing one of the weaker weapons in the game due to a PVP exploit rather than just fixing the exploit is kinda last-straw level for me."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle4 -
Wolfchild07✭✭✭✭✭YesThe poll says it all. Balance PvP and PvE completely separately.
Unnerf everything, try again.5 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭✭YesStrandedMonkey wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I do read my own posts, worry not.
Last time I checked reading them, I'm certainly not behind all those "nerf this" or "nerf that" posts often flooding the forum.
I do criticize a lot, that much is true.
Since you seem to read my posts often, you should notice - even then - I'm not targetting users directly.
I criticize the ideas themselves, and the entitled attitude I sometimes see.
If the shoe fits for someone, it's still nothing personal from my side.
The poll in this thread shows majority of people who bothered to vote are fed up about constant posts demanding nerfs/buffs/changes to PvP, so maybe "people who are doing most of the whining" do have a leg to stand on.
A lot of recent discussions are just about those topics.
Maybe PvP discussions do need their own section on the forum, so General can stay general, not "PvP and sometimes other topics" section.
That way ZOS can even have the little PvP feedback corner and discussions to browse and filter through, in addition to the feedback system they already implemented.
As for the tone
I cannot be responsible for people reading my posts with mean voice, especially if they disagree with me.
And even if I'm objectively the Regina George here - my posts are not meaner than things I had directed at me or others I've seen.
Vestige's reply to me was one of those, I only replied in kind, and still didn't target them personally.
I can't man, this is insane "yea all pvpers are bad, horrible people - they've said some mean things to me and now I think they should be completely obliterated from the game and given no platform for formal discussion."
From [snip] to boomer, some of you guys need to grow up. To have such disdain for a group of players in this game it's quite ironic you'll fight everywhere but in the game itself against them - but that's nothing personal I'm not referring to you directly.
Out of all the threads you've seen so far have you bothered to do any research into what they're asking for or do you think the post, whatever it may be about, is immediately invalid because they're talking about something you don't like?
Now you're overdramatizing what I've actually said.
I did, and I arrived at those conclusions regardless.
Your point?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:431 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesWas thinking last night whilst trying to bring down a bg attacking a keep, that siege does not do the damage it should anymore, due to health/shields.
Perhaps a quick fix would be to increase the damage done by sieges against players?
Cold fire used to be deadly; now it just tickles. Ticks of 8k over however many seconds does nothing to someone with 40k health & shields.
Perhaps upgrading siege might help in the fight against bgs?
I am not saying that they should be able to wipe out a group, but they should be able to do damage, supporting those players going into hand to hand combat, and they don’t really at the moment.
0 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoWolfchild07 wrote: »The poll says it all. Balance PvP and PvE completely separately.
Unnerf everything, try again.
I don't think the poll is the most interesting part of this thread. The self-exposing statements of many users are actually putting the poll numbers into perspective.
Ultimately emotion dump threads like this are quite meaningless. There is a strong bias towards the "backlash"-PoV, simply because of the way dissatisfied customers interact with media.
We don't even know at this point if ZOS nows what kind of average power level they envision for the future of the game. All we know is that players have on average more than enough potential to clear encounters. Even if there are admittedly more than enough buff-worthy elements in the game, this thread has not articulated a lot of really actionable information for ZOS.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:460 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesOceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:17Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...2 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭✭YesBardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:191 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesOceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I am not surprised.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:21Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...1 -
MorallyBipolar✭✭✭✭✭NoOceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:223 -
hollow_winds✭✭✭MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
This isn't exactly true though...PvE players have had sets they used in dungeons and other content nerfed because PvP players whined about them (Azureblight) and this is coming from a PvP main. I'm not going to sit here and pretend PvE players are perfect but if we're being honest here, it's not the PvE crowd flooding these forums with "nerf this, nerf that!", it's definitely the PvP crowd. If Zos wishes to nerf something in PvP content then sure, but I don't agree with those nerfs affecting PvE content
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:22PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style5 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nohollow_winds wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
This isn't exactly true though...PvE players have had sets they used in dungeons and other content nerfed because PvP players whined about them (Azureblight) and this is coming from a PvP main. I'm not going to sit here and pretend PvE players are perfect but if we're being honest here, it's not the PvE crowd flooding these forums with "nerf this, nerf that!", it's definitely the PvP crowd. If Zos wishes to nerf something in PvP content then sure, but I don't agree with those nerfs affecting PvE content
None of that makes PVE players "victims" of PVP players. If something is overperforming in PvP should we just say nothing and live with it forever? It's on ZOS to figure out how to appease the greatest number of players with balance patches. All we can do is report what we are experiencing.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:231 -
hollow_winds✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »hollow_winds wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
This isn't exactly true though...PvE players have had sets they used in dungeons and other content nerfed because PvP players whined about them (Azureblight) and this is coming from a PvP main. I'm not going to sit here and pretend PvE players are perfect but if we're being honest here, it's not the PvE crowd flooding these forums with "nerf this, nerf that!", it's definitely the PvP crowd. If Zos wishes to nerf something in PvP content then sure, but I don't agree with those nerfs affecting PvE content
None of that makes PVE players "victims" of PVP players. If something is overperforming in PvP should we just say nothing and live with it forever? It's on ZOS to figure out how to appease the greatest number of players with balance patches. All we can do is report what we are experiencing.
I'm not entirely sure you understand what "victim" means here. If the PvP crowd comes to the forums and the PTS and whines about a set being too OP (Azureblight) and it gets nerfed giving the PvP crowd what they want and it hinders the PvE crowd who never asked for it's nerf in the first place then how are the PvE players not a victim in that sense? I'm not disagreeing that it falls on Zos to make the correct adjustments and they should when it's something like this scenario but when almost all of these nerfs come from the PvP crowd and they only seem to make these nerfs with that crowd in mind then it's kinda silly to have the "PvE aren't victims here.." mindset.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:24PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style3 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nohollow_winds wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »hollow_winds wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
This isn't exactly true though...PvE players have had sets they used in dungeons and other content nerfed because PvP players whined about them (Azureblight) and this is coming from a PvP main. I'm not going to sit here and pretend PvE players are perfect but if we're being honest here, it's not the PvE crowd flooding these forums with "nerf this, nerf that!", it's definitely the PvP crowd. If Zos wishes to nerf something in PvP content then sure, but I don't agree with those nerfs affecting PvE content
None of that makes PVE players "victims" of PVP players. If something is overperforming in PvP should we just say nothing and live with it forever? It's on ZOS to figure out how to appease the greatest number of players with balance patches. All we can do is report what we are experiencing.
I'm not entirely sure you understand what "victim" means here. If the PvP crowd comes to the forums and the PTS and whines about a set being too OP (Azureblight) and it gets nerfed giving the PvP crowd what they want and it hinders the PvE crowd who never asked for it's nerf in the first place then how are the PvE players not a victim in that sense? I'm not disagreeing that it falls on Zos to make the correct adjustments and they should when it's something like this scenario but when almost all of these nerfs come from the PvP crowd and they only seem to make these nerfs with that crowd in mind then it's kinda silly to have the "PvE aren't victims here.." mindset.
I see. So we should remain silent and never report any imbalance in PvP, else we are victimizing PvE players.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667797/pc-mac-patch-notes-v10-02-5-update-44
Azureblight was buffed and then given the "against mosters" treatment.. not even usable in PvP anymore so idk if that's the best example.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:241 -
hollow_winds✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »hollow_winds wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »hollow_winds wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
This isn't exactly true though...PvE players have had sets they used in dungeons and other content nerfed because PvP players whined about them (Azureblight) and this is coming from a PvP main. I'm not going to sit here and pretend PvE players are perfect but if we're being honest here, it's not the PvE crowd flooding these forums with "nerf this, nerf that!", it's definitely the PvP crowd. If Zos wishes to nerf something in PvP content then sure, but I don't agree with those nerfs affecting PvE content
None of that makes PVE players "victims" of PVP players. If something is overperforming in PvP should we just say nothing and live with it forever? It's on ZOS to figure out how to appease the greatest number of players with balance patches. All we can do is report what we are experiencing.
I'm not entirely sure you understand what "victim" means here. If the PvP crowd comes to the forums and the PTS and whines about a set being too OP (Azureblight) and it gets nerfed giving the PvP crowd what they want and it hinders the PvE crowd who never asked for it's nerf in the first place then how are the PvE players not a victim in that sense? I'm not disagreeing that it falls on Zos to make the correct adjustments and they should when it's something like this scenario but when almost all of these nerfs come from the PvP crowd and they only seem to make these nerfs with that crowd in mind then it's kinda silly to have the "PvE aren't victims here.." mindset.
I see. So we should remain silent and never report any imbalance in PvP, else we are victimizing PvE players.
Ridiculous.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667797/pc-mac-patch-notes-v10-02-5-update-44
Azureblight was buffed and then given the "against mosters" treatment.. not even usable in PvP anymore so idk if that's the best example.
Can you please show me where I said "Don't report imbalances in PvP"?
I'm stating as to why I believe PvE players would be considered a victim when it comes to these nerf everything threads which is where my original comments stemmed from.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:25PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style2 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nohollow_winds wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »hollow_winds wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »hollow_winds wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
This isn't exactly true though...PvE players have had sets they used in dungeons and other content nerfed because PvP players whined about them (Azureblight) and this is coming from a PvP main. I'm not going to sit here and pretend PvE players are perfect but if we're being honest here, it's not the PvE crowd flooding these forums with "nerf this, nerf that!", it's definitely the PvP crowd. If Zos wishes to nerf something in PvP content then sure, but I don't agree with those nerfs affecting PvE content
None of that makes PVE players "victims" of PVP players. If something is overperforming in PvP should we just say nothing and live with it forever? It's on ZOS to figure out how to appease the greatest number of players with balance patches. All we can do is report what we are experiencing.
I'm not entirely sure you understand what "victim" means here. If the PvP crowd comes to the forums and the PTS and whines about a set being too OP (Azureblight) and it gets nerfed giving the PvP crowd what they want and it hinders the PvE crowd who never asked for it's nerf in the first place then how are the PvE players not a victim in that sense? I'm not disagreeing that it falls on Zos to make the correct adjustments and they should when it's something like this scenario but when almost all of these nerfs come from the PvP crowd and they only seem to make these nerfs with that crowd in mind then it's kinda silly to have the "PvE aren't victims here.." mindset.
I see. So we should remain silent and never report any imbalance in PvP, else we are victimizing PvE players.
Ridiculous.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667797/pc-mac-patch-notes-v10-02-5-update-44
Azureblight was buffed and then given the "against mosters" treatment.. not even usable in PvP anymore so idk if that's the best example.
Can you please show me where I said "Don't report imbalances in PvP"?
I'm stating as to why I believe PvE players would be considered a victim when it comes to these nerf everything threads which is where my original comments stemmed from.
Well you did say that doing so victimizes PvE players, which is certainly not something I ever want to do.
I think people get fixated on the nerf threads but there are plenty of threads and comments asking for buffs for Templar, Nightblade, Arcanist, Necromancer, weapon skills, etc.
PvP players and PvE players alike have to adapt and adjust their builds as the META shifts. PvP players ask for a 10% adjustment, then zos delivers a 300% adjustment, then the PvE crowd says they were victimized by the PvP crowd. Misdirected frustration. I could claim that I am being victimized by PvE players constantly demanding my silence.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:251 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoOceanchanter wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
[snip]
Plenty of threads asking for buffs for Templar, Nighblade, Arcanist, Necromancer, weapon skills etc.
PvP and PvE are not two separate groups of players. Most PvP mains "graduated" from PvE and still do it regularly to update their builds or to get skins etc. Majority of PvP mains that I know are better PvEers than PvE mains. The META will shift with or without feedback, it is by design. And surely we don't all believe the devs take player feedback at face value without reviewing their own data and drawing their own conclusions.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:310 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS needs their own team of experts to test new skills and gear before they go live. Relying on player input after the fact to balance your game through nerfs is a recipe for disaster for many reasons.
2 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »MorallyBipolar wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »
I would never play eso again
Somehow that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Spoken like a true casual pveer. casual pveers are the most toxic group in ESO so it doesn't surprise me when they call for whole other groups of players to just be removed from the game because they disagree with them. They're the type to report you for standing near their body too long
[snip]
As amusing as this is, this is the spiderman meme, pvers complaining that the pve community locks them out and kicks them from content allegedly because their class is now bad due to changes made for pvp and how pvp is a problem and needs to go away because we're a minority in the community... its countless. Couldnt even count all of the threads.
PvErs supported Vengeance just to spite us for a game mode they couldnt even populate despite being the majority player base.
Whatever insults you'd like to levy against our community it goes double if not more from yours, its why I stopped joining pve communities in the first place.
I reflect your insults with triple the force and you cannot reflect them back~
I start to see why PvErs supported Vengeance.
I don't think I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you!" taunt since the kindergarten playground. Sadly, that's all you've got in this discussion.
The PvE players are not and never have been victims of the PvP community. Yelling you're a victim at the top of your lungs while not being a victim doesn't work.
[snip]
How many people supported nerfing negate? Even I, a PvPer that uses mostly mag characters do not support nerfing negate as annoying as it is and how it has a much bigger radius than its graphic like other Sorc skills. I actually think the Negate mechanic needs more sources and a specialized siege that can do it.
Fact of the matter is, anyone can call for a nerf and anyone can call for a buff. It's a forum and people will argue for what they want or don't want. But don't overstate the role of those arguing, because it's not like we can actually make ZOS do anything. At least not without evidence of an issue.
Because if there were that possibility then a lot of things simply wouldn't be released on Live before it even gets to be a problem.
Take for example Oakensoul, how many people said it was bad design? How many people said the Major Force was bad to put on it? How many people said that it should have only offense or defensive buffs because it was more buffs than a person could not only put on, but actually sustain on their own?
And ZOS released it anyway, then it became an issue in BOTH PvE and PvP. This isn't an isolated pattern, it's pretty much done often and even most recently with Signet.
It's always weird that people pretend that PvP and PvE are different in balancing when it's not entirely true. The only difference is how damage is sourced and what is prioritized in a build in PvE vs PvP. Key word "prioritized" because sustained damage USED to compete with burst builds in PvP, and now they don't thanks to nerfs for PvE's sake along with powercreep.
Literally the same problematic elements you can find in PvP do transfer over to PvE very often, it's just a matter of whether or not the developers think content has been trivialized to the point that nerfs are warranted at that point (concerning PvE). Same build that kills a player in one poison arrow with Static Reverbation in PvP acting recursively, also killed Tho'at in IA at higher arcs in 5 seconds. No one needs to dispute when things like that are obviously working far better than intended, and it's unsurprising it got nerfed or "restricted" to prevent that kind of behavior.
All of it comes from powercreep and that powercreep also gets complaints from PvErs. Maybe not the ones that need it to complete content, just as the PvPers that are happy to have power tilted towards their class and will defend that power increase.
Lastly, PvPers actually DID do good for the entire game recently by getting ZOS to look at the CC bug that's been plauging the game since the rework. You know, the same CC bug that happens when you're tanking and suddenly get CC'd and can't break free while tanking a boss and die in random scenarios? That bug was prominent in PvP, but you could and would experience it in PvE as well. And if it's really fixed next patch it's a net positive benefit to me.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 5 September 2026 10:321 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭✭YesActually, lets see first two pages:
- Sorcerers are too strong
- Sorcerers are too strong thread 2: Electic Boogaloo
- Elemental Drain/Susceptibility too strong
- You might think it's "buff bows" but actually it's Elemental Drain/Susceptibility discussion again
It almost sounds like some Sorcerers with Elemental Drain ran down you and your Bow Necromancer several times in a row.
I mean, if asking to push Necro ahread of Sorc is any indicaition.
3 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
The Elder Scrolls Online Team3 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭✭YesZOS needs their own team of experts to test new skills and gear before they go live. Relying on player input after the fact to balance your game through nerfs is a recipe for disaster for many reasons.
That would require more staff to be hired/delegated to a testing task.
They did just had a wave of layoffs, and IIRC it's still not really over but I get mixed signals.
My former coworker always joked you can spend a work week "licking walls" looking for a crack in the world's boundaries, but a player will still find a hole in it and clip through.
So I imagine that even if ZOS went that direction, it still wouldn't be enough because its a team of few people vs whole playerbase's creativity.
@Luneca pointed out to me the matter of how many people actually want a nerf or buff, and that's a great point.
If the vibe is that ZOS does not listen, or however they collect the data on what should be nerfed/buffed is not satisfying - then maybe using the feedback system to submit nerf/buff requests could be a more streamlined solution.
That way we'd see if, for example, Negate Magic really is a problematic skill or is it just a selected few that find it problematic.
The request/suggestion to focus on Class Reworks already has better turnover for voting in the Feedbacks than that one poll on the forum in General suggestions (+2k vs ~150 people had voted), so by that alone it looks like its working.
Still doesn't solve the issue of such nerfs or buffs affecting PvE, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
0 -
anadandy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just wish they'd consolidate into one maybe two threads. This is not exclusive to PVP players either.2 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoOceanchanter wrote: ».
Still doesn't solve the issue of such nerfs or buffs affecting PvE, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
Yes, but Rome also had a different subscription model.
1 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoOceanchanter wrote: »ZOS needs their own team of experts to test new skills and gear before they go live. Relying on player input after the fact to balance your game through nerfs is a recipe for disaster for many reasons.
That would require more staff to be hired/delegated to a testing task.
They did just had a wave of layoffs, and IIRC it's still not really over but I get mixed signals.
My former coworker always joked you can spend a work week "licking walls" looking for a crack in the world's boundaries, but a player will still find a hole in it and clip through.
So I imagine that even if ZOS went that direction, it still wouldn't be enough because its a team of few people vs whole playerbase's creativity.
@Luneca pointed out to me the matter of how many people actually want a nerf or buff, and that's a great point.
If the vibe is that ZOS does not listen, or however they collect the data on what should be nerfed/buffed is not satisfying - then maybe using the feedback system to submit nerf/buff requests could be a more streamlined solution.
That way we'd see if, for example, Negate Magic really is a problematic skill or is it just a selected few that find it problematic.
The request/suggestion to focus on Class Reworks already has better turnover for voting in the Feedbacks than that one poll on the forum in General suggestions (+2k vs ~150 people had voted), so by that alone it looks like its working.
Still doesn't solve the issue of such nerfs or buffs affecting PvE, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
The META will shift for both PvE and PvP with or without player feedback. We will all need to adapt and adjust to new METAs as they come and go. It is not a PvP vs PvE issue as they are the same group of players. If only selected few people find something problematic then surely ZoS's review of their own data/metrics will reveal that to be the case and they will conclude no change is needed. Surely we don't believe feedback is taken at face value.1 -
playsforfun✭✭✭✭YesGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
The Elder Scrolls Online Team
Thank you, it was getting a bit toxic in here, I was contemplating asking for it to be closed but it's a few ruining it for the majority.
Cheers Icy.1