Sorc refresh.

Thoriorz · September 2

When is the Sorc rework planned? Before or after Warden?
And does anyone know roughly when?

DenverRalphy · September 2

Just today it was revealed that the Sorc refresh, which was scheduled to come next after Warden, got bumped down and replaced by Templar. And while I'm not entirely certain whether Sorc just dropped a rung down the ladder, that was the impression I got.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

Gagoimaliu · September 2

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Just today it was revealed that the Sorc refresh, which was scheduled to come next after Warden, got bumped down and replaced by Templar. And while I'm not entirely certain whether Sorc just dropped a rung down the ladder, that was the impression I got.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

I hope this is so they can focus on making the Daedric skills less... Daedric, so you can RP as an Aedric Sorcerer. I headcanon my Bosmer Sorc as not really following the rules but if I wanted to say, play an Altmer Sorc, it feels weird summoning Daedra knowing the cultural background of my toon

Thoriorz · September 2

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Just today it was revealed that the Sorc refresh, which was scheduled to come next after Warden, got bumped down and replaced by Templar. And while I'm not entirely certain whether Sorc just dropped a rung down the ladder, that was the impression I got.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

Thanks for the reply. I saw this, but I wasn’t really in the mood to read a long post about a class I don’t play. But when you mentioned that they talked about the Sorc there, I went through it again and noticed that the Templar is coming out before the Sorc.

Ok, so now I have to decide whether to keep playing ESO. I was hoping the Sorc might be reworked toward the end of the year or in early 2027, but seeing that it’s been delayed again—and who knows when it’ll actually be reworked—I really don’t feel like waiting a year for my class to be refreshed. I really don’t...
Honestly, this is just another thing that adds to my long-standing deliberations about whether to continue playing ESO, and there are more and more of these things pushing me toward quitting the game, so we’ll see...

DenverRalphy · September 2

The only visual refresh I care to see for Sorc, is finally after over a decade of begging and pleading the Winged Twilight finally being replaced with something less obstructive, and non-intrusive. They can do whatever else they wish for all I care. As long as that one single issue is finally addressed. Anything less and I'd personally view it as a complete failure.

Radiate77 · September 2

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Just today it was revealed that the Sorc refresh, which was scheduled to come next after Warden, got bumped down and replaced by Templar. And while I'm not entirely certain whether Sorc just dropped a rung down the ladder, that was the impression I got.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

I hope this is so they can focus on making the Daedric skills less... Daedric, so you can RP as an Aedric Sorcerer. I headcanon my Bosmer Sorc as not really following the rules but if I wanted to say, play an Altmer Sorc, it feels weird summoning Daedra knowing the cultural background of my toon

Welcome to the world of Subclassing, friend.

Firstmep · September 2

Thoriorz wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Just today it was revealed that the Sorc refresh, which was scheduled to come next after Warden, got bumped down and replaced by Templar. And while I'm not entirely certain whether Sorc just dropped a rung down the ladder, that was the impression I got.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

Thanks for the reply. I saw this, but I wasn’t really in the mood to read a long post about a class I don’t play. But when you mentioned that they talked about the Sorc there, I went through it again and noticed that the Templar is coming out before the Sorc.

Ok, so now I have to decide whether to keep playing ESO. I was hoping the Sorc might be reworked toward the end of the year or in early 2027, but seeing that it’s been delayed again—and who knows when it’ll actually be reworked—I really don’t feel like waiting a year for my class to be refreshed. I really don’t...
Honestly, this is just another thing that adds to my long-standing deliberations about whether to continue playing ESO, and there are more and more of these things pushing me toward quitting the game, so we’ll see...

Tbh I know a lot of people who feel this way. I'm a plar main and I like my class being moved up, but frankly the entire post from zos suggests that reworks might be a once a year endeavor at this rate.
The fact that warden was supposed to be on the u51 pts now, and instead we get barely a snippet of some concept art and some low quality videos, with no real explanation about the rework itself is very worrying.

Umbracat449 · September 2

I wonder if sorc, being such a muddle of a class, with such split loyalties in players- love pets vs hate pets, dark magic so confusing, and so very pvp vs pve- each with such a different approach to the class, has them rethinking if they're up for it. Aka running scared.

Templar perhaps seems more doable to them.

Valkanos · September 2

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

Just wanna mention what the team said: "This may disappoint some of you".
And honestly, this is only a disappointment for players who still believe in ZoS’s words. For me, it wasn’t a disappointment at all. It was expected.
In the same way, I already knew there was going to be no release date. There’s nothing. Just words.
Well, it’s all good. You, ZoS, didn’t disappoint me at all. You can’t do that anymore.
Well... anyway, the servers are still online, and that’s good... I believe.

Firstmep · September 2

Umbracat449 wrote: »

I wonder if sorc, being such a muddle of a class, with such split loyalties in players- love pets vs hate pets, dark magic so confusing, and so very pvp vs pve- each with such a different approach to the class, has them rethinking if they're up for it. Aka running scared.

Templar perhaps seems more doable to them.

I think templar probably needs less conceptual work and mostly mechanical and visual changes. Regardless of the state of the class l, the identity is pretty strong with the mostly paladin-esque playstlye with some aedric twist.

Turtle_Bot · September 2

Firstmep wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

I wonder if sorc, being such a muddle of a class, with such split loyalties in players- love pets vs hate pets, dark magic so confusing, and so very pvp vs pve- each with such a different approach to the class, has them rethinking if they're up for it. Aka running scared.

Templar perhaps seems more doable to them.

I think templar probably needs less conceptual work and mostly mechanical and visual changes. Regardless of the state of the class l, the identity is pretty strong with the mostly paladin-esque playstlye with some aedric twist.

This is my thoughts as well.

Templar seems mostly there in terms of themes/identity (at least visually), being a paladin (warrior/healer/protector of light/good/riteousness) it's mostly lacking when it comes to functionality and some numbers issues that have resulted from past changes and also ZOS giving out generic access to so many named buffs that are very strong soft counters to templar (evasion and expedition).

Sorcerer however has really been pushed into such an awkward state over this games lifespan, starting out as a nice rounded mix of its themes with overload 3rd bar allowing it to make use of the pets without completely destroying it's bar space or at least allowing it to make up for everything being so one dimensional, then they removed overloads 3rd bar and have spent years trying to bring the many themes up to par individually (first the pets, then from U38 onwards non-pet builds) to fix the issues caused by removing Overloads 3rd bar, that the individual themes just ended up taking over the classes whole identity, completely drowning out the other aspects/themes each time they got buffed or others got nerfed.

Sorcerer to me seems like it will be far more involved, maybe even delving into the base code itself (due to pets and unique abilities like overload) rather than just abilities and visuals, especially if ZOS wants to return the class to how it used to be where pets were a viable option that didn't completely drown out the arcane and lightning themes Sorcerer has.

If this is the case, I can see ZOS also potentially pushing NB ahead of Sorc in the future as well, especially if the pets and things like overload prove complex enough/entangled enough in the base code to warrant more time.

BardokRedSnow · September 2

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Just today it was revealed that the Sorc refresh, which was scheduled to come next after Warden, got bumped down and replaced by Templar. And while I'm not entirely certain whether Sorc just dropped a rung down the ladder, that was the impression I got.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

I hope this is so they can focus on making the Daedric skills less... Daedric, so you can RP as an Aedric Sorcerer. I headcanon my Bosmer Sorc as not really following the rules but if I wanted to say, play an Altmer Sorc, it feels weird summoning Daedra knowing the cultural background of my toon

Altmer traffic in daedra just as much as dunmer do even while pretending not to, plus the mer come from aedra man dont thing is a lie, old and wandering ehlnofey are of et ada.

The biggest villain in the series arguably up to this point is Mannimarco, daedric princes notwithstanding, and necromancy as well as conjuration is far from rare. He's just one of the best at it. Conjurations a pretty common magical school explored.

ZhuJiuyin · September 3

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

I wonder if sorc, being such a muddle of a class, with such split loyalties in players- love pets vs hate pets, dark magic so confusing, and so very pvp vs pve- each with such a different approach to the class, has them rethinking if they're up for it. Aka running scared.

Templar perhaps seems more doable to them.

I think templar probably needs less conceptual work and mostly mechanical and visual changes. Regardless of the state of the class l, the identity is pretty strong with the mostly paladin-esque playstlye with some aedric twist.

This is my thoughts as well.

Templar seems mostly there in terms of themes/identity (at least visually), being a paladin (warrior/healer/protector of light/good/riteousness) it's mostly lacking when it comes to functionality and some numbers issues that have resulted from past changes and also ZOS giving out generic access to so many named buffs that are very strong soft counters to templar (evasion and expedition).

Sorcerer however has really been pushed into such an awkward state over this games lifespan, starting out as a nice rounded mix of its themes with overload 3rd bar allowing it to make use of the pets without completely destroying it's bar space or at least allowing it to make up for everything being so one dimensional, then they removed overloads 3rd bar and have spent years trying to bring the many themes up to par individually (first the pets, then from U38 onwards non-pet builds) to fix the issues caused by removing Overloads 3rd bar, that the individual themes just ended up taking over the classes whole identity, completely drowning out the other aspects/themes each time they got buffed or others got nerfed.

Sorcerer to me seems like it will be far more involved, maybe even delving into the base code itself (due to pets and unique abilities like overload) rather than just abilities and visuals, especially if ZOS wants to return the class to how it used to be where pets were a viable option that didn't completely drown out the arcane and lightning themes Sorcerer has.

If this is the case, I can see ZOS also potentially pushing NB ahead of Sorc in the future as well, especially if the pets and things like overload prove complex enough/entangled enough in the base code to warrant more time.

Kevin answered questions about the Sorc delay in (page3) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/698868/update-the-warden-and-class-refresh/p3
It seems, as we suspected, that Sorc requires more time to update its visual effects. Therefore, redoing the Templars first would be more efficient (Kevin also mentioned that the Templars' visual effects updates would be less significant than those for Warden and Sorc).

I think this also indirectly confirms another hypothesis: that Sorc skills and animations are coded together, requiring substantial updates to meet refresh requirements.

Gagoimaliu · September 3

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Just today it was revealed that the Sorc refresh, which was scheduled to come next after Warden, got bumped down and replaced by Templar. And while I'm not entirely certain whether Sorc just dropped a rung down the ladder, that was the impression I got.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Below is a link to a letter from the ESO development team, sharing an update on the ongoing Warden and Class refresh work.

Article Link

I hope this is so they can focus on making the Daedric skills less... Daedric, so you can RP as an Aedric Sorcerer. I headcanon my Bosmer Sorc as not really following the rules but if I wanted to say, play an Altmer Sorc, it feels weird summoning Daedra knowing the cultural background of my toon

Altmer traffic in daedra just as much as dunmer do even while pretending not to, plus the mer come from aedra man dont thing is a lie, old and wandering ehlnofey are of et ada.

The biggest villain in the series arguably up to this point is Mannimarco, daedric princes notwithstanding, and necromancy as well as conjuration is far from rare. He's just one of the best at it. Conjurations a pretty common magical school explored.

The majority of Altmer worship the Aedra, people like Mannimarco and Daedra worshipers are shunned or expelled from Altmer society (as Mannimarco was when he kicked the Psijic bucket, or the Ayleids, or Bosmer who worship Hircine)

If I wanted to play an Altmer that's within the mainstream of Altmeri culture, I'd either have to completely ignore the Summoning tree, or play something like a DK or a Templar. But if I wanted to play an outcast or someone embracing Veloth, then Daedra Summoning is fine. But there's nothing wrong with giving us the choice of being daedra summoners or not

Ecgberht_confused · September 3

People often use 'Daedra' and 'Daedric princes' interchangeably. You can summon Deadra without being a worshipper of any particular Daedric prince. Heck in TES V you could even summon Dremora.

Turtle_Bot · September 3

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

I wonder if sorc, being such a muddle of a class, with such split loyalties in players- love pets vs hate pets, dark magic so confusing, and so very pvp vs pve- each with such a different approach to the class, has them rethinking if they're up for it. Aka running scared.

Templar perhaps seems more doable to them.

I think templar probably needs less conceptual work and mostly mechanical and visual changes. Regardless of the state of the class l, the identity is pretty strong with the mostly paladin-esque playstlye with some aedric twist.

This is my thoughts as well.

Templar seems mostly there in terms of themes/identity (at least visually), being a paladin (warrior/healer/protector of light/good/riteousness) it's mostly lacking when it comes to functionality and some numbers issues that have resulted from past changes and also ZOS giving out generic access to so many named buffs that are very strong soft counters to templar (evasion and expedition).

Sorcerer however has really been pushed into such an awkward state over this games lifespan, starting out as a nice rounded mix of its themes with overload 3rd bar allowing it to make use of the pets without completely destroying it's bar space or at least allowing it to make up for everything being so one dimensional, then they removed overloads 3rd bar and have spent years trying to bring the many themes up to par individually (first the pets, then from U38 onwards non-pet builds) to fix the issues caused by removing Overloads 3rd bar, that the individual themes just ended up taking over the classes whole identity, completely drowning out the other aspects/themes each time they got buffed or others got nerfed.

Sorcerer to me seems like it will be far more involved, maybe even delving into the base code itself (due to pets and unique abilities like overload) rather than just abilities and visuals, especially if ZOS wants to return the class to how it used to be where pets were a viable option that didn't completely drown out the arcane and lightning themes Sorcerer has.

If this is the case, I can see ZOS also potentially pushing NB ahead of Sorc in the future as well, especially if the pets and things like overload prove complex enough/entangled enough in the base code to warrant more time.

Kevin answered questions about the Sorc delay in (page3) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/698868/update-the-warden-and-class-refresh/p3
It seems, as we suspected, that Sorc requires more time to update its visual effects. Therefore, redoing the Templars first would be more efficient (Kevin also mentioned that the Templars' visual effects updates would be less significant than those for Warden and Sorc).

I think this also indirectly confirms another hypothesis: that Sorc skills and animations are coded together, requiring substantial updates to meet refresh requirements.

I saw this as well and was glad to read/know the official reason and that theory is also likely why we haven't seen much done in the way of actual changes to Sorcerer skills over the years beyond numbers changes compared to some classes that have gotten completely new skills over the years.

Either way I had suspected Sorcerer was going to require more work than some of the other classes to refresh it, so I wasn't too surprised when I saw it got pushed back. It's probably also the likely reason ZOS decided to make Sorcerers class masteries stronger than others like Plar initially, since it's likely they could already internally see Sorcerer needing more time to refresh.

Gagoimaliu · September 3

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

People often use 'Daedra' and 'Daedric princes' interchangeably. You can summon Deadra without being a worshipper of any particular Daedric prince. Heck in TES V you could even summon Dremora.

Summoning Daedra should still be a faux pas in game, as we are (In the base game zones at least) currently being invaded by Daedra, now they are bound to the player, so that could be one excuse, but we already have a good example they can follow for the Sorc refresh and it's Necro. I haven't played a Necro but as I understand it summoning pets is a criminal act in cities, which makes sense.

Think about it, how many quests in the base game are "They want to summon Daedra in our quaint town!" and then we come along, a scamp and a twilight by our side, throwing curses at people

Umbracat449 · September 3

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

I wonder if sorc, being such a muddle of a class, with such split loyalties in players- love pets vs hate pets, dark magic so confusing, and so very pvp vs pve- each with such a different approach to the class, has them rethinking if they're up for it. Aka running scared.

Templar perhaps seems more doable to them.

I think templar probably needs less conceptual work and mostly mechanical and visual changes. Regardless of the state of the class l, the identity is pretty strong with the mostly paladin-esque playstlye with some aedric twist.

This is my thoughts as well.

Templar seems mostly there in terms of themes/identity (at least visually), being a paladin (warrior/healer/protector of light/good/riteousness) it's mostly lacking when it comes to functionality and some numbers issues that have resulted from past changes and also ZOS giving out generic access to so many named buffs that are very strong soft counters to templar (evasion and expedition).

Sorcerer however has really been pushed into such an awkward state over this games lifespan, starting out as a nice rounded mix of its themes with overload 3rd bar allowing it to make use of the pets without completely destroying it's bar space or at least allowing it to make up for everything being so one dimensional, then they removed overloads 3rd bar and have spent years trying to bring the many themes up to par individually (first the pets, then from U38 onwards non-pet builds) to fix the issues caused by removing Overloads 3rd bar, that the individual themes just ended up taking over the classes whole identity, completely drowning out the other aspects/themes each time they got buffed or others got nerfed.

Sorcerer to me seems like it will be far more involved, maybe even delving into the base code itself (due to pets and unique abilities like overload) rather than just abilities and visuals, especially if ZOS wants to return the class to how it used to be where pets were a viable option that didn't completely drown out the arcane and lightning themes Sorcerer has.

If this is the case, I can see ZOS also potentially pushing NB ahead of Sorc in the future as well, especially if the pets and things like overload prove complex enough/entangled enough in the base code to warrant more time.

Kevin answered questions about the Sorc delay in (page3) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/698868/update-the-warden-and-class-refresh/p3
It seems, as we suspected, that Sorc requires more time to update its visual effects. Therefore, redoing the Templars first would be more efficient (Kevin also mentioned that the Templars' visual effects updates would be less significant than those for Warden and Sorc).

I think this also indirectly confirms another hypothesis: that Sorc skills and animations are coded together, requiring substantial updates to meet refresh requirements.

I saw this as well and was glad to read/know the official reason and that theory is also likely why we haven't seen much done in the way of actual changes to Sorcerer skills over the years beyond numbers changes compared to some classes that have gotten completely new skills over the years.

Either way I had suspected Sorcerer was going to require more work than some of the other classes to refresh it, so I wasn't too surprised when I saw it got pushed back. It's probably also the likely reason ZOS decided to make Sorcerers class masteries stronger than others like Plar initially, since it's likely they could already internally see Sorcerer needing more time to refresh.

Yes templar seems more coherent to me. I never mained it but poked around via subclassing and it seemed a very "together" class.

Sorc seemed to be built by some other zos altogether than templar.

And i know turtle_bot 'refresh' is just the word being used generally for the class work, and that's how you're using it, but, by heck they better be starting sorc from a blank page.

It needs a lot more than a refresh.

Umbracat449 · September 3

By the way are we talking 2028 for sorc?

@ZOS_Kevin what's the eta here?

🤪

AlienSlof · September 3

DenverRalphy wrote: »

The only visual refresh I care to see for Sorc, is finally after over a decade of begging and pleading the Winged Twilight finally being replaced with something less obstructive, and non-intrusive. They can do whatever else they wish for all I care. As long as that one single issue is finally addressed. Anything less and I'd personally view it as a complete failure.

So much this! When I'm on my healer, I have a screenful of horrible flapping wings and can't see properly who needs healing. Please, please get rid of it.

Above300pinginKorea · September 3

could it be.. DEN -> PLAR -> SORC -> NEC -> ARC?