Wait u can play lol pc na gray it all ep no one else is on

El_Borracho wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its almost like perpetually begging for nerfs has adverse consequences that are entirely foreseeable and gradually make the PVP experience worse for everyone.

I don't think I will ever understand the "never nerf" mentality. If one thing is too strong the entire game should be rebalanced rather than just adjusting the one thing? Glad you're not my boss lol

The day the revised werewolf came out there were threads immediately calling for it to be nerfed. Same with the DK, despite the devs explaining what was going on with the DK. Same as with the Assassination skill line when subclassing hit

If you want to pretend this isn't what happens every single time one class or build rises to the top, that's your choice. But spare us the sanctimony while doing it.

The problem is the things rising to the top are not just a little better than everything else in most applications, they are EXTREMELY better at EVERYTHING else in ALL applications.

In other words, they are ruining it for anyone who doesn't play them. Then you have people flocking to those classes to play the OP stuff that beats everything, but most people are pretty buns at the game and act like this new OP stuff isn't OP and that everyone just complains etc etc...

If Zos had not come out with some of these balance changes around dk, sorc, and WW I was literally going to quit playing the game because the game was no longer fun because it was an uneven playing ground and all I do is pvp

XVestigeXx wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its almost like perpetually begging for nerfs has adverse consequences that are entirely foreseeable and gradually make the PVP experience worse for everyone.

I don't think I will ever understand the "never nerf" mentality. If one thing is too strong the entire game should be rebalanced rather than just adjusting the one thing? Glad you're not my boss lol

The day the revised werewolf came out there were threads immediately calling for it to be nerfed. Same with the DK, despite the devs explaining what was going on with the DK. Same as with the Assassination skill line when subclassing hit

If you want to pretend this isn't what happens every single time one class or build rises to the top, that's your choice. But spare us the sanctimony while doing it.

The problem is the things rising to the top are not just a little better than everything else in most applications, they are EXTREMELY better at EVERYTHING else in ALL applications.

In other words, they are ruining it for anyone who doesn't play them. Then you have people flocking to those classes to play the OP stuff that beats everything, but most people are pretty buns at the game and act like this new OP stuff isn't OP and that everyone just complains etc etc...

If Zos had not come out with some of these balance changes around dk, sorc, and WW I was literally going to quit playing the game because the game was no longer fun because it was an uneven playing ground and all I do is pvp

Dude, people once claimed Way of Fire was OP.

What is always lost on these threads is that nerfing something makes something else OP. Even long-dead 10 year old garbage sets like Way of Fire when you tear everything else down around it.

Players complaining about the DK today have NO IDEA what the DK could do years ago with sets like Zaan and Elf Bane. Or what Werewolf could do with Crimson Oath. Or what Sorcs could do with Fury or 7th Legion. Why? Because all of those things were nerfed using the same arguments over and over and over again.

The best part? The "nerf everything" crowd is also the first to complain about the "lack of diversity" in PVP. Hmm, I wonder if the two are related. Nah, we should just keep demanding nerfs any time something is made stronger. After all, its worked so well up to this point...

If only someone would point out the absurdity of demanding that all PVP builds, except their build, get nerfed

El_Borracho wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its almost like perpetually begging for nerfs has adverse consequences that are entirely foreseeable and gradually make the PVP experience worse for everyone.

I don't think I will ever understand the "never nerf" mentality. If one thing is too strong the entire game should be rebalanced rather than just adjusting the one thing? Glad you're not my boss lol

The day the revised werewolf came out there were threads immediately calling for it to be nerfed. Same with the DK, despite the devs explaining what was going on with the DK. Same as with the Assassination skill line when subclassing hit

If you want to pretend this isn't what happens every single time one class or build rises to the top, that's your choice. But spare us the sanctimony while doing it.

Maybe because all of what you've just named can be built to be literally invincible vs. everyone else with no real chance of losing from a balancing issue rather than any skill. Have you thought of that reason? That people don't like it when the game has a systematic balance issue that determines the outcome no matter what they do?

The balance in this patch is agreed by nearly everyone, even people playing WW and DK / Sorc on live to be abysmal. Just go into Cyrodiil on any platform and ask if people think the game is balanced. Specifically sorc, DK, and WW on live.

Wait, why don't you make a poll on the forums? Everyone knows the answer.

When you can run a WW and take on 20+ people while killing them without any skill involved, it's an issue.
When a DK can come out and whip over 27K on TANKS repeatedly, it's an issue.
When sorcs can literally spam shields and have their HP never drop while dishing damage, it's an issue.

Maybe you and those playing the classes might enjoy it while you run around a tower and farm easy players with 0 chance of you actually losing to pretend that what you're doing is skillful, but others play in PvP spaces because they want a fair experience and don't find value in winning all the time. Especially not from a build rather than skill.

Of course that's hard for modern PvPers in this game obsessed with winning at any cost to understand. And it's always the least impressive ones defending the current balance of the game because they know it deep down that without the system favoring them they will be no different than anyone else -- or worse mediocre.

El_Borracho wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its almost like perpetually begging for nerfs has adverse consequences that are entirely foreseeable and gradually make the PVP experience worse for everyone.

I don't think I will ever understand the "never nerf" mentality. If one thing is too strong the entire game should be rebalanced rather than just adjusting the one thing? Glad you're not my boss lol

The day the revised werewolf came out there were threads immediately calling for it to be nerfed. Same with the DK, despite the devs explaining what was going on with the DK. Same as with the Assassination skill line when subclassing hit

If you want to pretend this isn't what happens every single time one class or build rises to the top, that's your choice. But spare us the sanctimony while doing it.

The problem is the things rising to the top are not just a little better than everything else in most applications, they are EXTREMELY better at EVERYTHING else in ALL applications.

In other words, they are ruining it for anyone who doesn't play them. Then you have people flocking to those classes to play the OP stuff that beats everything, but most people are pretty buns at the game and act like this new OP stuff isn't OP and that everyone just complains etc etc...

If Zos had not come out with some of these balance changes around dk, sorc, and WW I was literally going to quit playing the game because the game was no longer fun because it was an uneven playing ground and all I do is pvp

Dude, people once claimed Way of Fire was OP.

What is always lost on these threads is that nerfing something makes something else OP. Even long-dead 10 year old garbage sets like Way of Fire when you tear everything else down around it.

Players complaining about the DK today have NO IDEA what the DK could do years ago with sets like Zaan and Elf Bane. Or what Werewolf could do with Crimson Oath. Or what Sorcs could do with Fury or 7th Legion. Why? Because all of those things were nerfed using the same arguments over and over and over again.

The best part? The "nerf everything" crowd is also the first to complain about the "lack of diversity" in PVP. Hmm, I wonder if the two are related. Nah, we should just keep demanding nerfs any time something is made stronger. After all, its worked so well up to this point...

If only someone would point out the absurdity of demanding that all PVP builds, except their build, get nerfed

Absolutely none of that is comparable to the strength of builds on live. If you think so, you live in an alternate universe.

And you also have to remember that during those time periods EVERYONE was also OP. And the power came from sets and not the class and SYSTEM itself, which can now be combined with sets which is the problem.

But don't let that reality cloud you from attempting to put on a show of how much crazier it was back in the day. No. Pretty sure this patch is a worse era than that. Zaan and Elf-bane? Oh you mean the proc that actually took time to do damage versus being able to whip someone out of stealth for over 30K and spam it? The proc that could also be outhealed/shielded or simply moved out of range from?

Crimson Oath that needed a bunch of targets to achieve inferior healing to what Werewolf can do now in a single button without even wearing a set?

Please enlighten us more about how much worse it was back in the day versus now. At least choose better examples than oens that can be easily challenged. It's embarassing otherwise. But do go on .

El_Borracho wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Its almost like perpetually begging for nerfs has adverse consequences that are entirely foreseeable and gradually make the PVP experience worse for everyone.

I don't think I will ever understand the "never nerf" mentality. If one thing is too strong the entire game should be rebalanced rather than just adjusting the one thing? Glad you're not my boss lol

The day the revised werewolf came out there were threads immediately calling for it to be nerfed. Same with the DK, despite the devs explaining what was going on with the DK. Same as with the Assassination skill line when subclassing hit

If you want to pretend this isn't what happens every single time one class or build rises to the top, that's your choice. But spare us the sanctimony while doing it.

Maybe because all of what you've just named can be built to be literally invincible vs. everyone else with no real chance of losing from a balancing issue rather than any skill. Have you thought of that reason? That people don't like it when the game has a systematic balance issue that determines the outcome no matter what they do?
.

I had no idea Way of Fire was invincible. My bad. Carry on with the nerfs everyone! Apparently it does solve all PVP issues and leads to that promised land of balance. I was way off.

But do go on. You were telling us all about how DK + Elf Bane + Zaan was nothing. Or how Crimson on a WW was nothing (and that was before you paired it with Alessian). Or how sorcs could once spam shields and inflict massive damage with cleave. Its almost as if you are looking at what those sets are today instead of what they once were.... hmmmmmmm.

The best part? Calling this era the worst ever, while insisting we continue the nerfs that got us here.

Maybe it was to you, but not to me because I used DoT builds. You know the thing that is completely extinct in the current patch. At any rate enjoy your opinon, I won't go back and forth. It isn't worth my time, but it is worth yours.