Is this a joke?

Valkanos · August 23

HA Players.... béu béu!

Pixiepumpkin · August 23

Imagine, just imagine coming to the conclusion that making....ohh nevermind. Game is toast.

YffresTrill · August 23

We have left a fair bit of negative feedback about this on the feedback thread for the solo dungeons. So far no response from the developers, but I am sure they are seeing it, so fingers crossed this gets fixed before this goes live.

This is bad not only for heavy attack players, but also for anyone using a set that procs off light or heavy attack damage. I had to remove Pyrebrand while testing this because the set effect was completely deleted.

oddarin · August 23

That's called challenge for a reason, ya know...

thedocbwarren · August 23

How would someone even be able to participate if you can't damage something, run around as a rodeo clown?

Hostely, I don't know why they don't separate PvE and PvP? Completely mental! Clearly two different games and different needs. -sigh- when is ES: VI coming out???

oddarin · August 23

thedocbwarren wrote: »

Hostely, I don't know why they don't separate PvE and PvP?

What do you mean? It is solo-dungeon's optional challenge modifiers, how is it related to PVP?

SilverBride · August 23

oddarin wrote: »

It is solo-dungeon's optional challenge modifiers...

Thank you. I was just about to ask what this even is because there was no explanation given.

Arunei · August 24

oddarin wrote: »

That's called challenge for a reason, ya know...

It's not a "challenge" to lock out entire play-styles and whole Sets. It's preventing people who use HA builds, which are completely valid, from using that MF. It prevents the use of a number of Sets that proc off Heavy and Light Attacks, such as:

Sergeant's Mail
Caluurion's Legacy
Storm Master
Noble Duelist's Aria
Undaunted Infiltrator
Aerie's Cry
Threads of War
Morkuldin
Essence Thief
Rakkhat's Voidmantle
Whorl of the Depths

and numerous others. A "challenge" is something that makes something more difficult, NOT something that completely blocks entire Sets and a whole way of playing from being used. A "challenge" would be if the MF worked more like Velothi and drastically reduced the damage of L/HA instead of just outright disabling them.

Aislinna · August 24

Can you run the solo dungeon without selecting that debuff? It says "choose up to 3".

spartaxoxo · August 24

Aislinna wrote: »

Can you run the solo dungeon without selecting that debuff? It says "choose up to 3".

Yes. There's rewards for doing all 3 though.

Nemesis7884 · August 24

I on the other hand think this is an amazing one so im just not gonna use one of my HA builds but one of the many that uses velothi ur mage...

Nemesis7884 · August 24

YffresTrill wrote: »

We have left a fair bit of negative feedback about this on the feedback thread for the solo dungeons. So far no response from the developers, but I am sure they are seeing it, so fingers crossed this gets fixed before this goes live.

This is bad not only for heavy attack players, but also for anyone using a set that procs off light or heavy attack damage. I had to remove Pyrebrand while testing this because the set effect was completely deleted.

This on the other hand seems rather a bug...maybe they can change it to "only do 1 damage" so the proc sets that depend on it still works.

HatchetHaro · August 24

... just change your build? Arcs and DKs already have highly-accessible and viable channeled-ability builds, and so do Werewolves (available to every class). You can't expect to be able to tackle every challenge with just one build alone.

Ishtarknows · August 24

thedocbwarren wrote: »

How would someone even be able to participate if you can't damage something, run around as a rodeo clown?

Hostely, I don't know why they don't separate PvE and PvP? Completely mental! Clearly two different games and different needs. -sigh- when is ES: VI coming out???

Use skills?
It's only nerfing light and heavy attacks, not skills. A brutal version of Velothi mythic

Valkanos · August 24

Ishtarknows wrote: »

thedocbwarren wrote: »

How would someone even be able to participate if you can't damage something, run around as a rodeo clown?

Hostely, I don't know why they don't separate PvE and PvP? Completely mental! Clearly two different games and different needs. -sigh- when is ES: VI coming out???

Use skills?
It's only nerfing light and heavy attacks, not skills. A brutal version of Velothi mythic

Damn... no one thought of that. Seems like only you and the developers have found the perfect solution for every HA build.

oddarin · August 24

Arunei wrote: »

It's not a "challenge" to lock out entire play-styles and whole Sets. It's preventing people who use HA builds, which are completely valid, from using that MF.

Yes, it is. As been said, you can't expect to be able to run all hardmode content using the same tricks. Sometimes you need to be creative and find new ways to face the dares. It pushed you out of your habitual playstyle, that's why it is the challenge.

Valkanos · August 24

oddarin wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It's not a "challenge" to lock out entire play-styles and whole Sets. It's preventing people who use HA builds, which are completely valid, from using that MF.

Yes, it is. As been said, you can't expect to be able to run all hardmode content using the same tricks. Sometimes you need to be creative and find new ways to face the dares. It pushed you out of your habitual playstyle, that's why it is the challenge.

Oh, absolutely. What a brilliant challenge.
"Light and Heavy Attacks do 0 damage, so just don't use Light or Heavy Attacks". Problem solved. HA players simply need to discover the revolutionary new HA build where the Heavy Attack isn't actually used.
I can't believe we needed developers and 10 years of ESO development to discover this level of build diversity.

I've seen this kind of "challenge" before in Counter-Strike.
Patch notes saying: "Automatic weapons and all non-automatic weapons now deal 0 DPS."
And then, instead of telling players to "be creative" and find a new weapon, the developers simply remove everyone's arms.
Challenge? BITE.

HatchetHaro · August 24

Valkanos wrote: »

oddarin wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

It's not a "challenge" to lock out entire play-styles and whole Sets. It's preventing people who use HA builds, which are completely valid, from using that MF.

Yes, it is. As been said, you can't expect to be able to run all hardmode content using the same tricks. Sometimes you need to be creative and find new ways to face the dares. It pushed you out of your habitual playstyle, that's why it is the challenge.

Oh, absolutely. What a brilliant challenge.
"Light and Heavy Attacks do 0 damage, so just don't use Light or Heavy Attacks". Problem solved. HA players simply need to discover the revolutionary new HA build where the Heavy Attack isn't actually used.
I can't believe we needed developers and 10 years of ESO development to discover this level of build diversity.

No. You need to discover a "revolutionary new build" that doesn't rely on attacks and still fits your accessibility requirements.

You "HA players" have made heavy-attacking your whole identity and it's genuinely holding you back. Actual good players can and will adapt and change their builds to the best of their ability to best tackle the content they're doing and overcome the challenges they need. When you insist on one-tricking a playstyle, you don't get to complain when that trick gets taken away for a mechanic or a challenge.

dinokstrunz · August 24

Arunei wrote: »

oddarin wrote: »

That's called challenge for a reason, ya know...

It's not a "challenge" to lock out entire play-styles and whole Sets. It's preventing people who use HA builds, which are completely valid, from using that MF. It prevents the use of a number of Sets that proc off Heavy and Light Attacks, such as:

Sergeant's Mail
Caluurion's Legacy
Storm Master
Noble Duelist's Aria
Undaunted Infiltrator
Aerie's Cry
Threads of War
Morkuldin
Essence Thief
Rakkhat's Voidmantle
Whorl of the Depths

and numerous others. A "challenge" is something that makes something more difficult, NOT something that completely blocks entire Sets and a whole way of playing from being used. A "challenge" would be if the MF worked more like Velothi and drastically reduced the damage of L/HA instead of just outright disabling them.

Then you don't pick it? Creating builds that enables the player to do all 3 challenges really shouldn't be hard to grasp. Those who love HAs need to venture out their comfort zones in order to do this, all part of the challenge.

YffresTrill · August 24

The other debuffs in these dungeons have the following effects:

Increase your damage taken
Reduce your damage done
Reduce your recoveries
Cause enemies to heal themselves

These are all generic debuffs that make the challenge significantly harder, without specifically targeting any particular build. They can be overcome by a decent player with a good solo build, but do not require one to specifically set up just for this one particular dungeon. I think it is a very strange design choice to create this one debuff that targets specific builds, while none of the others do this.

Valkanos · August 24

HatchetHaro wrote: »

No. You need to discover a "revolutionary new build" that doesn't rely on attacks and still fits your accessibility requirements.

You "HA players" have made heavy-attacking your whole identity and it's genuinely holding you back. Actual good players can and will adapt and change their builds to the best of their ability to best tackle the content they're doing and overcome the challenges they need. When you insist on one-tricking a playstyle, you don't get to complain when that trick gets taken away for a mechanic or a challenge.

Ok, I agree. We're no longer making the content harder. We're just deciding which players are allowed to use their builds.
And apparently, forcing players to use builds they don't like is a “challenge” now. Well, what else could we expect from ZoS other than... incentivizing players to hate other builds even more? lol

EDIT:
"You HA players have made heavy-attacking your whole identity, and it’s genuinely holding you back".
And why is that a problem for you? Why is that a problem for ZoS? Why is it a problem if someone wants to play with a build they like?
Oh... right. Because some players just want to play the game the way they enjoy. And of course... that’s apparently a big problem for everyone.
HA players aren’t welcome in group content... and now they’re being excluded from solo content too. Oh boy... ESO really is becoming more inclusive every day.

HatchetHaro · August 24

Valkanos wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

No. You need to discover a "revolutionary new build" that doesn't rely on attacks and still fits your accessibility requirements.

You "HA players" have made heavy-attacking your whole identity and it's genuinely holding you back. Actual good players can and will adapt and change their builds to the best of their ability to best tackle the content they're doing and overcome the challenges they need. When you insist on one-tricking a playstyle, you don't get to complain when that trick gets taken away for a mechanic or a challenge.

Ok, I agree. We're no longer making the content harder. We're just deciding which players are allowed to use their builds.
And apparently, forcing players to use builds they don't like is a “challenge” now. Well, what else could we expect from ZoS other than... incentivizing players to hate other builds even more? lol

You're right! I love my pacifist build! I wish I could use my pacifist build to clear all content in the game at all difficulties without resorting to or becoming an accomplice to violence!

ZOS, let me woo Lokkestiiz instead of defeating him! I absolutely deserve to have the Godslayer title without slaying any gods!

Valkanos · August 24

True story. Anyway, I don't even care about HA, LA, or any of this anymore... lol. But come on... when I read "HA does 0 DPS", I had to ask if this was actually a joke.
At this point, I'm just watching ESO burn and wondering what they're going to come up with next. lol
Anyway, it's always good to see a player like you, with:
"7x IR, 7x GH, 8x TTT, 5x GS, 7x DB, 3x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 2x CB, 1x Unchained"
(My God, I had to copy-paste that list. If I had to type all of that by hand, I'd probably unlock a new achievement.)
telling everyone else: "Just adapt".

loaganb16_ESO · August 24

I get why it's in there, but just making it do 99% less damage would solve it without invalidating the grind for a specific set. I like the Pyrebrand HA oomph and dot.

frogthroat · August 24

Has this been tested?

Because for example Pyrebrand does say "light attacks cause..." it doesn't say anything about how much damage the LA must do for it to proc. I would guess it would do 0 direct damage and that ~1k DOT (unbuffed).

If the LA is completely turned off, then it shouldn't increase ulti either. Surely that's not the case. If it does "damage" but the value is 0, then 0! should proc Caluurion.

YffresTrill · August 24

frogthroat wrote: »

Has this been tested?

Because for example Pyrebrand does say "light attacks cause..." it doesn't say anything about how much damage the LA must do for it to proc. I would guess it would do 0 direct damage and that ~1k DOT (unbuffed).

If the LA is completely turned off, then it shouldn't increase ulti either. Surely that's not the case. If it does "damage" but the value is 0, then 0! should proc Caluurion.

Pyrebrand does not work. Light attacks do not trigger the set proc. I tested it.

Ulti gain does still work though.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8522941#Comment_8522941

(This thread is full of bait and ad hominem nonsense on both sides. Maybe let's keep things civil before this gets moderated.)

Blood_again · August 24

I saw players who blamed the game for having too many useless sets and for homogenization among PvE builds.

Now I see players who are shocked that some PvE challenges cut out their beloved homogenized build and make useless some sets they got used to.

Are those the same players?

Eldovar · August 24

This reminds of those Call Of Duty challenges to unlock new stuff they had to scrap because people complained it wasn't fun.

Kill 30 players with a headshot from 50m with a shotgun while crouching in the smoke of your grenade.

Stuff like this is just to inflate and waste players time with the least amount of development effort. It's yet another case of a reheated old meal.

konrad.reibinger · August 24

If the reward is worth it - why not.

HatchetHaro · August 24

Valkanos wrote: »

True story. Anyway, I don't even care about HA, LA, or any of this anymore... lol. But come on... when I read "HA does 0 DPS", I had to ask if this was actually a joke.
At this point, I'm just watching ESO burn and wondering what they're going to come up with next. lol
Anyway, it's always good to see a player like you, with:
"7x IR, 7x GH, 8x TTT, 5x GS, 7x DB, 3x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 2x CB, 1x Unchained"
(My God, I had to copy-paste that list. If I had to type all of that by hand, I'd probably unlock a new achievement.)
telling everyone else: "Just adapt".

Sorry for being good at the game I guess. Totally my bad for knowing how to adapt to play different builds on different classes for different groups tackling different trials.

tomofhyrule · August 24

It is possible for two things to be true.

Fact 1: this is an exclusionary challenge, as everyone on the PTS thread is pointing out. It is not a good challenge. It essentially means that the people who play beam builds have no difference, but heavy attack builds are completely shut out.

Fact 2: there are a lot of Heavy Attack players who refuse to consider playing any other playstyle while using ‘disabilities’ to justify that petulance, who don’t even realize that heavy attack builds are actually not super accessible (because holding down a single button for extended periods can trigger them), and who refuse to consider playing other builds which are more accessible like beam builds (which do not require weaving and can allow for players to cast one skill every 5 seconds with no clicks inbetween).