madmufffin wrote: »

For the crystal weapon changes, I feel like it would be more welcome to just have the skill be one strong hit like ele/crushing weapon than multiple hits that diminishes massively in damage like the current version. If you're just going to make it 1 full damage hits and 2 tickles, don't even bother making the change. Doing that after adding the reverb restrictions is just gonna be a slap in the face of everyone who doesn't just stand on someone with hurricane. All forms of ranged sorc (most thematically appropriate build) are just getting dunked on with this.

I think Crystal Weapon a skill that prioritizes ease of use over the power of a single hit.
The developers gave Crystal Weapon a 6 second duration and Imbue Weapon a 2 second duration.
The developers likely balanced Crystal Weapon as a skill that doesn't force the player into a hectic playstyle.
We always used it for ganking, but I don't think that's the playstyle the developers intended.

The developers have now granted Sorcerers the right to use both Crystal Weapon and Imbue Weapon.
These are skills assigned different purposes. You can choose one of them to use.

pinkpom wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

For the crystal weapon changes, I feel like it would be more welcome to just have the skill be one strong hit like ele/crushing weapon than multiple hits that diminishes massively in damage like the current version. If you're just going to make it 1 full damage hits and 2 tickles, don't even bother making the change. Doing that after adding the reverb restrictions is just gonna be a slap in the face of everyone who doesn't just stand on someone with hurricane. All forms of ranged sorc (most thematically appropriate build) are just getting dunked on with this.

I think Crystal Weapon a skill that prioritizes ease of use over the power of a single hit.
The developers gave Crystal Weapon a 6 second duration and Imbue Weapon a 2 second duration.
The developers likely balanced Crystal Weapon as a skill that doesn't force the player into a hectic playstyle.
We always used it for ganking, but I don't think that's the playstyle the developers intended.

The developers have now granted Sorcerers the right to use both Crystal Weapon and Imbue Weapon.
These are skills assigned different purposes. You can choose one of them to use.

Imbue now has a 6s window instead of 2s window. In pvp at least, I'd rather take Imbue because Major Breach free's up a bar space, the extra ticks are miniscule which can be overshadowed by the psijic order passive orbs, it's cheaper, and the 1k unique pen is negligible.

It seems they tacked on the 3rd tick last minute because they realized the Imbue change basically took away Crystal Weapons last ounce of unique identity which was fairly weak in the first place.

Imo, OP is right, a multi hit REAL spammable is exactly what Sorc needs, but I'd rather them convert Endless Fury into a dynamic cost ability with that type of idea on the refresh. Crystal Weapon and Crystal Frag are meant as semi-spammables in that you cast them once every 2~3 seconds while still allowing for a traditional 1s spammable, albeit on the weaker side. Dual purpose.

The 6s window is good, the 3 ticks is good, but the 1k pen and -% cost needs to be swapped out for a unique effect on each tick. Something like Sunder on tick 1, Minor Defile on tick 2, and Minor Cowardice on tick 3.

merevie wrote: »

Love that the sorc passive on werewolf is being managed. This will totally end all werewolf dominance in Pvp and you can forget about it and move onto fixing the necro-hamsters running the pvp servers.
PS Anyone continuing to scream for WW nerfs beyond this point should be pointed towards the Wailing Wall or the starter combat tutorial.

Agreed, WW is finally ok now, people can build so much weapon damage on it and hit for loads if they play it right.

All ZOS has to do now is speed up the class reworks,
they all must be concluded by end of 2027 - @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you have more than enough people, just pull some overtime and get them done so the game can thrive and grow. Instead of delivering any more dungeons or trials focus on sorting out the rest of the classes so we can finally stop this never ending cycle of buffs and nerfs and stop introducing new broken gear items which create further imbalance and warrant for more nerfs.

Perhaps do what so many other successful mmos did in the past:

Introduce a PvP set unique to each class or perhaps give each class three choices: one focused on tankiness, one on damage, and one on healing. Then introduce a universal back-bar set that everyone has access to granting essential stats for PvP such as critical resistance, weapon damage, magicka/stamina (same value like 1k of each), bit armor or 1k physical and spell resistance…

Provided the class reworks are completed properly and the balance is sorted out, you wouldn’t need to constantly reinvent PvP after that. You could put far more of those resources into actually developing and expanding the game: new dungeons, Trials, PvP zones, Battleground maps and modes, DLCs that bring the story closer to some of the other Elder Scrolls games, and genuinely new forms of content.

You could even take things to the next level and introduce naval PvP. Let players buy and customise their own ships, fight other players at sea, sink enemy vessels or board them and fight the opposing team for their cargo, loot, or some other meaningful reward. There is so much you could do with a system like that. Take a look at Assassins Creed Black Flag and Pirates of the Caribbean online (a concept people are still keeping alive nearly 20 years later, for an idea of how appealing that kind of gameplay can be).

If you keep introducing broken gear sets and items, however, there are always going to be balance problems. People will constantly demand nerfs and buffs, another overpowered set will replace the previous one, and PvP will remain stuck in the same toxic balancing cycle it is in now.

Unless the purpose of constantly introducing new gear is to encourage people to spend more money in the Crown Store, I don’t really understand the reasoning behind it. And even if monetisation is part of the goal, there are far more interesting ways of achieving it while simultaneously expanding the game. Bring naval combat into ESO with proper ship battles. Tie it into a DLC or something people have to pay for separately regardless of whether or not they are subbed.

You could also put more effort into producing genuinely well-designed armour and weapon styles, because frankly, a lot of the existing ones aren’t particularly impressive. For the lack of a better word majority of them suck. Look at games such as Dark Souls or Black Myth: Wukong and compare the detail, textures and overall quality of their armour and weapons. Skyrim has better looking armors and weapons. Give players cosmetics that actually make them want to spend money.

The basic philosophy for PvP should be simple: gear shouldn’t carry the player or do the work for them. Player skill should.

And if creating entirely new class-exclusive PvP sets requires too many resources, you don’t even necessarily need to do that. You already have the Infinite Archive class sets. Rework and reutilise those for this purpose, giving each class a controlled selection of PvP-focused options.

That would give you a much more manageable foundation for balancing PvP while freeing up development resources to actually expand ESO instead of endlessly trying to fix the problems created by the latest round of gear sets you introduced.

Gupitoos wrote: »

quote removed by moderation

I normally wouldn’t give into such obvious bait but I feel the need to say only CoE, Static wolf was capable of ‘god mode’ post Signet (Warden mastery) nerf.

Any wolf outside of CoE-wolf on live cannot ‘tank a Zerg’ and hope to maintain any significant level of damage.

I had championed (and still will) to remove class masteries for werewolf in PvP after seeing the nerfs that aligned heavily with sorc masteries in place of potentially returning damage (tooltips were lowered post rework), healing (removing healing from bite and returning it to the only on-demand heal which sees at 43% percent nerf on the current PTS iteration to before the rework), and utility (to help with the ‘pressure’ playstyle without high sustain such as the major and minor defile we had).

However it’s now very clear to be me after the sustain nerfs in PvE and the Static change that affects PvE, werewolf is no longer a true consideration for PvE and I highly doubt its upkeep there either for another 3-6 months; werewolf was considered to be objectively horrendous before the rework and it’s at a bad enough level post-nerfs in PvP that I’m saying as a player who did highly proficiently with werewolf despite its prior abysmal state-> we are at a point that it may be better to return werewolf to its previous balance state in all but animations, cadence (bite), and QoL (form sustain out of combat and ‘switch up’ on the leap/execute dot).

They lied about making Magicka werewolf a reality.

They lied about not wanting these PvP changes for werewolf to affect PvE (just-in static reverb nerf makes sorc wolf in PvE a non-reality for any competitive damage).

They removed animations I paid for explicitly on a whim with a 2 sentence explanation that excuses nothing.

They have made not even so much as a meaningful statement on any of the above points

I tag these people who are suppose to be community reps for the entire community @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom just like multiple others on the same issue who are rightfully frustrated, confused, and feel like constructive feedback is ignored and yet no response of any kind, not even a statement or acknowledgment is heard.

If their goal is for werewolf to be a ‘meme spec’ and ‘not a viable playstyle’, I just want to know why so much effort was placed and why it was so much stronger on the PTS just to end up weaker in all the areas it is now while none of the tools from prior iterations are returned. I want to know this especially as I would like the official statement to know what to expect and ‘the why’ so I can honestly and truthfully make a more educated decision as to whether or not I continue in the seemingly never-ending nerf cycle.

I would hope you’d understand why, as a paying customer, I am concerned for the part of the game I find to be the most irreplaceable.

madmufffin wrote: »

With the changes to reverb, that's not an acceptable stance imo. Sorc has no class spammable and is now even more reliant on one for its defensive kit. Crystal weapons needs to be brought to parity with other class spammables or one of the mage's skills needs to be reworked to he a spammable.

Crystal Weapon has a unique concept, so converting it into a spammable skill is virtually impossible.
I understand that you want spammable skills. However, it is very difficult to expect Crystal Weapon to fulfill that role.

We should probably pin our hopes on the Crystal Fragments.
Since Crystal Fragments is a skill unrelated to Imbue Weapon, there is no need to consider balancing it against Imbue Weapon.
That skill is the most freely customizable of the Sorcerer's skills.

pinkpom wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

With the changes to reverb, that's not an acceptable stance imo. Sorc has no class spammable and is now even more reliant on one for its defensive kit. Crystal weapons needs to be brought to parity with other class spammables or one of the mage's skills needs to be reworked to he a spammable.

Crystal Weapon has a unique concept, so converting it into a spammable skill is virtually impossible.
I understand that you want spammable skills. However, it is very difficult to expect Crystal Weapon to fulfill that role.

We should probably pin our hopes on the Crystal Fragments.
Since Crystal Fragments is a skill unrelated to Imbue Weapon, there is no need to consider balancing it against Imbue Weapon.
That skill is the most freely customizable of the Sorcerer's skills.

Crystal frags is the one skill on sorc that's in a good place. Reworking that to be the spammable when 60% of the kit is unusable garbage would be quite the choice.

pinkpom wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Crystal frags is the one skill on sorc that's in a good place. Reworking that to be the spammable when 60% of the kit is unusable garbage would be quite the choice.

I thought you weren't using Crystal frags.
You cannot use Crystal Weapon and Crystal Frags at the same time, and you stated that you wanted to change Crystal Weapon into a spammable skill.
I think that unless you give something up, you cannot gain anything.

I currently use crushing weapon and frags on a bow/bow sorc. With the reverb changes I'll have to drop the mastery or lose frags to run a hopefully not horrible crystal weapon. Either way, my build is getting pretty aggressively boned by this change. I was more speaking generally to the sorc kit that frags is in a good spot and changing it because of some insistence on crystal weapons being janky garbage would be a big mistake. Sorc has so much just straight garbage in their kit, so plenty of things to change before messing with one of the few good and balanced things in the kit.

pinkpom wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The 6s window is good, the 3 ticks is good, but the 1k pen and -% cost needs to be swapped out for a unique effect on each tick. Something like Sunder on tick 1, Minor Defile on tick 2, and Minor Cowardice on tick 3.

Considering the "easy to use" concept that Crystal Weapon, cost reduction aligns with that concept. It likely won't be removed.
Sundered is a status effect that deals additional damage to enemies when triggered. Dealing additional damage on top of a triple hit is too powerful. It is unbalanced.

I think the only minor debuff that can likely be applied by Crystal Weapon is Minor Magickasteal.
Crystal Weapon is not a skill primarily focused on debuffs.
We might be better off expecting to gain minor buffs rather than minor debuffs.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that the ability is meant for ease of use. It's a convoluted spammable that actively punishes you for spamming it, you need proper ability management to get the full value by only casting it up to once every 3 skills in conjunction with perfect weaving or your throwing out damage by casting it too early.

Whatever, agree to disagree I guess, it needs a rework/refresh, the -% cost and 1k pen is meaningless and taking up the skill budget. It should be decent as a spammable (it's not), while excelling as a semi-spammable (it's not). About the only place people like it is PVP for delaying burst.

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Lmao now yall WWs won't have good Sorc masteries either. So much for asking for Sorc nerfs 😂😂

You seem to have a lot of fun here. Anything to make a viable playstyle far from viable makes you happy?

I personally can't really fathom a meme greater than 'pressure playstyle that burns out in a seconds'.

'Class' whose identity is around a STRONG neutral game has a nearly nonexistent neutral game under any actual pressure.

I am having fun. Yall got your Sorc nerfs. Now go play your Sorc WWs

At least you finally admit to enjoying seeing WW get nerfed, for whatever reason you have such an obvious disdain of the playstyle over. Also why are you acting so high and mighty when those of us playing WW have BEEN ASKING for Sorc Masteries getting tuned down? We knew this very thing, people crying for WW to be nerfed because they don't look at the cause only the symptoms, would happen. Surprise, it happened!

The only problem is "hurr hurr go play ur Sorc WW" is such a dismissive passive aggressive comment because WW is going to be even worse now, even on Sorc. They finally tuned down the problematic Passives that caused the WW nerfs in the first place without reverting those nerfs. WW not getting free damage, healing, and sustain from those Masteries will bring it in line enough, there is 0 need for the nerfs to go through now. Instead WW is losing healing from both the Hircine's and the reduction to CoE, they're losing sustain from the changes to CoE and no Stam Recovery buff being returned despite the cost increases, and they're losing power from Static Reverb being proc'd only from Sorc Skills on top of having less Stam and sustain for pressure.

The changes to Sorc were needed and I'm not bothered by those at all. What I'm bothered by is that those changes were made but the nerfs to WW are still left in place. We're STILL being punished for Sorc Masteries even after those are being toned down.

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Lmao now yall WWs won't have good Sorc masteries either. So much for asking for Sorc nerfs 😂😂

You seem to have a lot of fun here. Anything to make a viable playstyle far from viable makes you happy?

I personally can't really fathom a meme greater than 'pressure playstyle that burns out in a seconds'.

'Class' whose identity is around a STRONG neutral game has a nearly nonexistent neutral game under any actual pressure.

I am having fun. Yall got your Sorc nerfs. Now go play your Sorc WWs

At least you finally admit to enjoying seeing WW get nerfed, for whatever reason you have such an obvious disdain of the playstyle over. Also why are you acting so high and mighty when those of us playing WW have BEEN ASKING for Sorc Masteries getting tuned down? We knew this very thing, people crying for WW to be nerfed because they don't look at the cause only the symptoms, would happen. Surprise, it happened!

The only problem is "hurr hurr go play ur Sorc WW" is such a dismissive passive aggressive comment because WW is going to be even worse now, even on Sorc. They finally tuned down the problematic Passives that caused the WW nerfs in the first place without reverting those nerfs. WW not getting free damage, healing, and sustain from those Masteries will bring it in line enough, there is 0 need for the nerfs to go through now. Instead WW is losing healing from both the Hircine's and the reduction to CoE, they're losing sustain from the changes to CoE and no Stam Recovery buff being returned despite the cost increases, and they're losing power from Static Reverb being proc'd only from Sorc Skills on top of having less Stam and sustain for pressure.

The changes to Sorc were needed and I'm not bothered by those at all. What I'm bothered by is that those changes were made but the nerfs to WW are still left in place. We're STILL being punished for Sorc Masteries even after those are being toned down.

Good words, sounds like we needd nerf WW more, i have some suggestions

1 - Werewolves deal 50% less Light Attack and Heavy Attack damage.

2 - Werewolves take 100% increased Poison damage.

3 - Werewolf skills have a 40% ramping cost each time they are used, lasting for 10 seconds.

4 - Werewolves heal 90% less.

5 - Rampage causes Werewolves to take 4,000 Oblivion damage per second while increasing their damage by 5%.

6 - Werewolves do not have access to class, world, guild, weapon, or armor passives.

Nah we'd still clearly be OP. Instead WW should Polymorph into the default dog model the game uses and have their Skills replaced with tricks! Speak, Shake, Spin, Fetch, and Play Dead.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Lmao now yall WWs won't have good Sorc masteries either. So much for asking for Sorc nerfs 😂😂

You seem to have a lot of fun here. Anything to make a viable playstyle far from viable makes you happy?

I personally can't really fathom a meme greater than 'pressure playstyle that burns out in a seconds'.

'Class' whose identity is around a STRONG neutral game has a nearly nonexistent neutral game under any actual pressure.

I am having fun. Yall got your Sorc nerfs. Now go play your Sorc WWs

At least you finally admit to enjoying seeing WW get nerfed, for whatever reason you have such an obvious disdain of the playstyle over. Also why are you acting so high and mighty when those of us playing WW have BEEN ASKING for Sorc Masteries getting tuned down? We knew this very thing, people crying for WW to be nerfed because they don't look at the cause only the symptoms, would happen. Surprise, it happened!

The only problem is "hurr hurr go play ur Sorc WW" is such a dismissive passive aggressive comment because WW is going to be even worse now, even on Sorc. They finally tuned down the problematic Passives that caused the WW nerfs in the first place without reverting those nerfs. WW not getting free damage, healing, and sustain from those Masteries will bring it in line enough, there is 0 need for the nerfs to go through now. Instead WW is losing healing from both the Hircine's and the reduction to CoE, they're losing sustain from the changes to CoE and no Stam Recovery buff being returned despite the cost increases, and they're losing power from Static Reverb being proc'd only from Sorc Skills on top of having less Stam and sustain for pressure.

The changes to Sorc were needed and I'm not bothered by those at all. What I'm bothered by is that those changes were made but the nerfs to WW are still left in place. We're STILL being punished for Sorc Masteries even after those are being toned down.

Good words, sounds like we needd nerf WW more, i have some suggestions

1 - Werewolves deal 50% less Light Attack and Heavy Attack damage.

2 - Werewolves take 100% increased Poison damage.

3 - Werewolf skills have a 40% ramping cost each time they are used, lasting for 10 seconds.

4 - Werewolves heal 90% less.

5 - Rampage causes Werewolves to take 4,000 Oblivion damage per second while increasing their damage by 5%.

6 - Werewolves do not have access to class, world, guild, weapon, or armor passives.

Arunei wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Lmao now yall WWs won't have good Sorc masteries either. So much for asking for Sorc nerfs 😂😂

You seem to have a lot of fun here. Anything to make a viable playstyle far from viable makes you happy?

I personally can't really fathom a meme greater than 'pressure playstyle that burns out in a seconds'.

'Class' whose identity is around a STRONG neutral game has a nearly nonexistent neutral game under any actual pressure.

I am having fun. Yall got your Sorc nerfs. Now go play your Sorc WWs

At least you finally admit to enjoying seeing WW get nerfed, for whatever reason you have such an obvious disdain of the playstyle over. Also why are you acting so high and mighty when those of us playing WW have BEEN ASKING for Sorc Masteries getting tuned down? We knew this very thing, people crying for WW to be nerfed because they don't look at the cause only the symptoms, would happen. Surprise, it happened!

The only problem is "hurr hurr go play ur Sorc WW" is such a dismissive passive aggressive comment because WW is going to be even worse now, even on Sorc. They finally tuned down the problematic Passives that caused the WW nerfs in the first place without reverting those nerfs. WW not getting free damage, healing, and sustain from those Masteries will bring it in line enough, there is 0 need for the nerfs to go through now. Instead WW is losing healing from both the Hircine's and the reduction to CoE, they're losing sustain from the changes to CoE and no Stam Recovery buff being returned despite the cost increases, and they're losing power from Static Reverb being proc'd only from Sorc Skills on top of having less Stam and sustain for pressure.

The changes to Sorc were needed and I'm not bothered by those at all. What I'm bothered by is that those changes were made but the nerfs to WW are still left in place. We're STILL being punished for Sorc Masteries even after those are being toned down.

Good words, sounds like we needd nerf WW more, i have some suggestions

1 - Werewolves deal 50% less Light Attack and Heavy Attack damage.

2 - Werewolves take 100% increased Poison damage.

3 - Werewolf skills have a 40% ramping cost each time they are used, lasting for 10 seconds.

4 - Werewolves heal 90% less.

5 - Rampage causes Werewolves to take 4,000 Oblivion damage per second while increasing their damage by 5%.

6 - Werewolves do not have access to class, world, guild, weapon, or armor passives.

Nah we'd still clearly be OP. Instead WW should Polymorph into the default dog model the game uses and have their Skills replaced with tricks! Speak, Shake, Spin, Fetch, and Play Dead.

Nah, just make it where the sheer amount of stamina and vitality needed to transform just —in’ insta-kills you while transforming.

Recap can look like 100,000+ oblivion damage. /s

This reminds me of the thread someone made about how transforming would take/release more energy than I think it was like a bunch of the strongest nukes humanity has lol.

Arunei wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Lmao now yall WWs won't have good Sorc masteries either. So much for asking for Sorc nerfs 😂😂

You seem to have a lot of fun here. Anything to make a viable playstyle far from viable makes you happy?

I personally can't really fathom a meme greater than 'pressure playstyle that burns out in a seconds'.

'Class' whose identity is around a STRONG neutral game has a nearly nonexistent neutral game under any actual pressure.

I am having fun. Yall got your Sorc nerfs. Now go play your Sorc WWs

At least you finally admit to enjoying seeing WW get nerfed, for whatever reason you have such an obvious disdain of the playstyle over. Also why are you acting so high and mighty when those of us playing WW have BEEN ASKING for Sorc Masteries getting tuned down? We knew this very thing, people crying for WW to be nerfed because they don't look at the cause only the symptoms, would happen. Surprise, it happened!

The only problem is "hurr hurr go play ur Sorc WW" is such a dismissive passive aggressive comment because WW is going to be even worse now, even on Sorc. They finally tuned down the problematic Passives that caused the WW nerfs in the first place without reverting those nerfs. WW not getting free damage, healing, and sustain from those Masteries will bring it in line enough, there is 0 need for the nerfs to go through now. Instead WW is losing healing from both the Hircine's and the reduction to CoE, they're losing sustain from the changes to CoE and no Stam Recovery buff being returned despite the cost increases, and they're losing power from Static Reverb being proc'd only from Sorc Skills on top of having less Stam and sustain for pressure.

The changes to Sorc were needed and I'm not bothered by those at all. What I'm bothered by is that those changes were made but the nerfs to WW are still left in place. We're STILL being punished for Sorc Masteries even after those are being toned down.

Good words, sounds like we needd nerf WW more, i have some suggestions

1 - Werewolves deal 50% less Light Attack and Heavy Attack damage.

2 - Werewolves take 100% increased Poison damage.

3 - Werewolf skills have a 40% ramping cost each time they are used, lasting for 10 seconds.

4 - Werewolves heal 90% less.

5 - Rampage causes Werewolves to take 4,000 Oblivion damage per second while increasing their damage by 5%.

6 - Werewolves do not have access to class, world, guild, weapon, or armor passives.

Arunei wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Lmao now yall WWs won't have good Sorc masteries either. So much for asking for Sorc nerfs 😂😂

You seem to have a lot of fun here. Anything to make a viable playstyle far from viable makes you happy?

I personally can't really fathom a meme greater than 'pressure playstyle that burns out in a seconds'.

'Class' whose identity is around a STRONG neutral game has a nearly nonexistent neutral game under any actual pressure.

I am having fun. Yall got your Sorc nerfs. Now go play your Sorc WWs

At least you finally admit to enjoying seeing WW get nerfed, for whatever reason you have such an obvious disdain of the playstyle over. Also why are you acting so high and mighty when those of us playing WW have BEEN ASKING for Sorc Masteries getting tuned down? We knew this very thing, people crying for WW to be nerfed because they don't look at the cause only the symptoms, would happen. Surprise, it happened!

The only problem is "hurr hurr go play ur Sorc WW" is such a dismissive passive aggressive comment because WW is going to be even worse now, even on Sorc. They finally tuned down the problematic Passives that caused the WW nerfs in the first place without reverting those nerfs. WW not getting free damage, healing, and sustain from those Masteries will bring it in line enough, there is 0 need for the nerfs to go through now. Instead WW is losing healing from both the Hircine's and the reduction to CoE, they're losing sustain from the changes to CoE and no Stam Recovery buff being returned despite the cost increases, and they're losing power from Static Reverb being proc'd only from Sorc Skills on top of having less Stam and sustain for pressure.

The changes to Sorc were needed and I'm not bothered by those at all. What I'm bothered by is that those changes were made but the nerfs to WW are still left in place. We're STILL being punished for Sorc Masteries even after those are being toned down.

Good words, sounds like we needd nerf WW more, i have some suggestions

1 - Werewolves deal 50% less Light Attack and Heavy Attack damage.

2 - Werewolves take 100% increased Poison damage.

3 - Werewolf skills have a 40% ramping cost each time they are used, lasting for 10 seconds.

4 - Werewolves heal 90% less.

5 - Rampage causes Werewolves to take 4,000 Oblivion damage per second while increasing their damage by 5%.

6 - Werewolves do not have access to class, world, guild, weapon, or armor passives.

Nah we'd still clearly be OP. Instead WW should Polymorph into the default dog model the game uses and have their Skills replaced with tricks! Speak, Shake, Spin, Fetch, and Play Dead.

Nah, just make it where the sheer amount of stamina and vitality needed to transform just —in’ insta-kills you while transforming.

Recap can look like 100,000+ oblivion damage. /s

This reminds me of the thread someone made about how transforming would take/release more energy than I think it was like a bunch of the strongest nukes humanity has lol.

I appreciate you calling out my think piece thread

Werewolves and Vampires should never be stronger than pure classes or as strong. They ARE NOT CLASSES. Why should you be able to be a healer/dps or a tank on a WW or Vamp in either PVE or PVP? Most classes dont even do poison damage by the way so its not like the 10% weakness to poison is destructive on WW since nobody really deals that type of damage. Werewolf should have been weak to fire which is more in line with the Lore -.-

The game isnt set around werewolves and vampires, this isn't Twilight Scrolls Online.

Gupitoos wrote: »

Werewolves and Vampires should never be stronger than pure classes or as strong. They ARE NOT CLASSES. Why should you be able to be a healer/dps or a tank on a WW or Vamp in either PVE or PVP? Most classes dont even do poison damage by the way so its not like the 10% weakness to poison is destructive on WW since nobody really deals that type of damage. Werewolf should have been weak to fire which is more in line with the Lore -.-

The game isnt set around werewolves and vampires, this isn't Twilight Scrolls Online.

WW replaces your entire two Skill Bars. It removes your ability to use Weapon Passives. It doesn't work with many Class Passives or Masteries because many require the use of Class Skills WW doesn't have access to. They don't have burst damage. They don't have group heals. But they're not allowed to be strong because of some arbitrary reason.

Also Weres aren't weak to fire in lore, that's Vampires, so...

Finally the game isn't set around Nightblades, or Templars, or Wardens, or any particular Class. What argument are you even trying to make? That things don't deserve to be in the game if it's not "set around" them?

RedMamba wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Werewolves and Vampires should never be stronger than pure classes or as strong. They ARE NOT CLASSES. Why should you be able to be a healer/dps or a tank on a WW or Vamp in either PVE or PVP? Most classes dont even do poison damage by the way so its not like the 10% weakness to poison is destructive on WW since nobody really deals that type of damage. Werewolf should have been weak to fire which is more in line with the Lore -.-

The game isnt set around werewolves and vampires, this isn't Twilight Scrolls Online.

GUPITOS, UNTIL I can put sorc, NB, DK, etc. skills on my werewolf- IT NEEDS TO BE COMPETETIVE BY ITSELF.

I pay FAR more than you buddy, you're opinion is worth less than the toilet--- nvm.

How's that for: 'your opinion and perspective is invalid because I say so?!'

It's a skill line and not a class like you listed. It does not need to be.

Why not? You people keep going on about how WW doesn't deserve to be strong because of...some weird obsession with seeing it not be viable? Y'all act like anything you don't personally like should be removed from the game and have no viability whatsoever.