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How to make subclassing enhance your class identity and how to balance it with pure classes

XVestigeXx
XVestigeXx
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I'm just gonna get right down to it

Its bad that we are injecting so much power creep into the game in order to get people to pure class and not engage with subclassing. That is just bad game design no offense to anyone. It puts Zos in a really tough spot like trying to balance on a tight rope when they don't need to be. I want to help. I personally hate subclassing in its current form. It seems that roughly half the player base hates it, and the other half loves it. And zos can't just remove it at this point. I propose we meet in the middle and if we do that I think EVERYONE would LOVE subclassing AND pureclassing rather than having to be incentivized not to use subclassing

Here is what I propose:

I think limiting subclassing to one skill line only would be a much better and healthier thing to do rather than 2 skill lines. I also think that in order to retain class identity it is absolutely paramount for Zos to release colored or themed skill styles for each and every ability to retain and add your own class flair to your subclassed skill line. It has to feel like you are effecting the skill line and making it your own and building your own DNA into it rather than just being some generic meta subclassed NB/warden/sorc or something in order for subclassing to be a success. How cool would it be to have grim focus make your weapons glow blue on your necro? or to have overload glow red on your nb? What I'm saying is there should have been a way to make each subclassed ability feel like it belonged and was effected by your original class - which would be very easy to do with a simple RGB change. Like making a subclassed skill line from say templar glow green on a arcanist. I think it would help alot with class identity and subclassing and make it feel better if these skill styles were unlockable while leveling that subclassed line on whatever class you are originally. so there should be a nightblade red skill style for every ability, a necro blue for every ability, a arcanist green for every ability, and so on. Additionally, in order to retain this flair, I would make it so NB red could only be used on a original NB. And Arcanist green only allowed to be used on an original arcanist and so on.

I think this would feel off with 2 subclasses skill lines as well not to mention the balance and buildcrafting implications which is why subclassing HAS to be limited to just one skill line.

I think this would really enhance subclassing and make it much better to engage with and perhaps we could dial back some of the monstrous buffs that are being injected into the game with the refreshes and some of the class masteries. And don't get me wrong, I love the class masteries and want them to stay, but there has been some wildly broken things added lately and I think it is bad that they are being added purely to get people to NOT engage with a previously added system. I think we should just address the issues with that system and then also keep the class masteries but not go so hog wild on them and the refreshes and with how much power we are giving them. Looking at sorc's class masteries for example or the DK refresh

I also think these changes would be very doable as it would just be coloring the existing abilities and then limiting subclassing to one skill line which seems to me to be extremely doable.

Edit: I also wondered if since we are nerfing subclassing down to only one skill line it would be good to allow for 1 class mastery on a subclassed build. And then of course 2 class masteries on pure class. I feel like this could enhance class identity further

But what do you guys think?
Edited by XVestigeXx on 21 August 2026 10:18
  • Dovahmiim
    Dovahmiim
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    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P
    I'm better.
  • XVestigeXx
    XVestigeXx
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    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    Well I really hope someone in the studio would see this and take it to the team as I think this would treat the cause rather than the effect when it comes to a lot of the players pain points with the game. Because they are making it more difficult for themselves and for players who are annoyed with the really OP classes and also the problem of making subclassing a unused system. Its just a lot of problems are stemming from subclassing and they are reaching far and wide and I think these changes would be life changing for ESO

    And thanks for saying it was a good suggestion :)
    Edited by XVestigeXx on 21 August 2026 09:44
  • BretonMage
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    I'm not sure I'd agree with adding limitations, but I definitely agree that having skill styles in all colours can help enhance one's class identity, at least cosmetically.
  • Oceanchanter
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    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.
  • XVestigeXx
    XVestigeXx
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    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.

    Why? subclassing seems to be mostly dead as is with class masteries now no?
  • XVestigeXx
    XVestigeXx
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    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.

    I guess they could could make it so that each subclassed skill line removes 1 class mastery so you could be incentivized to only do 1 subclass and not 2 and open some diversity there allowing people to subclass 2 if they wanted
    Edited by XVestigeXx on 21 August 2026 15:19
  • Valkanos
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    Subclassing should be something you use to fill a hole in your build or group composition. It should provide flexibility, maybe you are missing a specific buff, debuff, utility, or support skill, so you sacrifice some personal performance to cover that weakness.
    If you subclass specifically to provide something your group is missing, then there should be a trade-off: you bring additional group utility, but you lose DPS. In return, the rest of the group benefits from the extra buff or utility you are providing.

    What it shouldn't do is become stronger than a pure class.

    Pure class = maximum DPS.
    Subclass = more flexibility and utility, but lower DPS.


    EDIT:
    With the insane power creep we already have in the game, allowing subclassing to make builds even stronger simply makes no sense. At the current state of the game, there is absolutely nothing that justifies giving players even more power through subclassing.
    If you want to enter the micromanaged endgame meta and optimize every single aspect of your group, then sure, subclassing should have a place there. It should be used to cover specific weaknesses, provide missing buffs, or optimize group composition so the entire group performs better.
    Subclassing should fill gaps, not create an even bigger power ceiling.

    Edited by Valkanos on 21 August 2026 16:02
  • Radiate77
    Radiate77
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    Subclassing should be as strong ‘Pure’ Classing, and that is where we will be after these refreshes are done.

    When Skill Lines are finally balanced to each other, it won’t matter which three you pair because every option will have the same viability.

    Class Mastery as a whole are the only thing getting in the way of this, which was why Reworked Classes should not have them to begin with.
    Edited by Radiate77 on 21 August 2026 16:10
    Founder of New Age Crusade, the #1 Battlegrounds guild on Xbox NA
  • Valkanos
    Valkanos
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    Radiate77 wrote: »
    Subclassing should be as strong ‘Pure’ Classing, and that is where we will be after these refreshes are done.
    When Skill Lines are finally balanced to each other, it won’t matter which three you pair because every option will have the same viability.
    Class Mastery as a whole are the only thing getting in the way of this, which was why Reworked Classes should not have them to begin with.


    "When Skill Lines are finally balanced"... I really understand your optimism. But will you understand mine?

    The servers will probably go down before ZoS ever manages to balance all the classes and skill lines. I simply don't believe that will ever happen before The Elder Scrolls VI is released. And once that happens... bye-bye, ESO.
    That's my version of optimism. Can you understand it too?
  • Oceanchanter
    Oceanchanter
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    XVestigeXx wrote: »
    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.

    Why? subclassing seems to be mostly dead as is with class masteries now no?

    It's not something I've noticed.
    I myself use it on 6/8 characters in some shape or form.
  • SilverIce58
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    XVestigeXx wrote: »
    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.

    Why? subclassing seems to be mostly dead as is with class masteries now no?

    It's not something I've noticed.
    I myself use it on 6/8 characters in some shape or form.

    Agreed. Just because people don't use it in their score-pushing groups doesn't mean nobody in the game at all isn't using it. Basically all of my characters have one skill line subclassed at least. Maybe i'm not score-pushing, but that doesn't mean my opinion on subclassing is not just as important as these others who do.
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  • Oceanchanter
    Oceanchanter
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    XVestigeXx wrote: »
    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.

    Why? subclassing seems to be mostly dead as is with class masteries now no?

    It's not something I've noticed.
    I myself use it on 6/8 characters in some shape or form.

    Agreed. Just because people don't use it in their score-pushing groups doesn't mean nobody in the game at all isn't using it. Basically all of my characters have one skill line subclassed at least. Maybe i'm not score-pushing, but that doesn't mean my opinion on subclassing is not just as important as these others who do.

    I think problem lies in the atittude behind the opinion.
    People should also realize and accept forum users are a small fraction of the game's population, and ZOS not implementing ideas and complaints posted on the forum might just not be that important in the grand scale of things.

    "ZOS never listens", "ZOS ignores feedback"
    Or maybe its "ZOS sees it but only, like, 10 people talk about it, it's not making game unplayable, lets focus on what's most important".
    Or an idea is straight up impossible to implement, like reporting and banning people for treason of spying in Cyridill.
    Or it goes against their vision of the game.

    If it's not affecting much broader population, like WW being unbalanced and DKs roasting populations alive in PvP, it's unlikely to happen.

    For instance, I personally believe ZOS should disable every and all addons in PvP.
    Such outside game modifications should have no place in PvP content.
    If you're so good at PvP then you wouldn't need addons that track every single miniscule thing so you can press a button 0.5 seconds faster resulting in 67.69 more damage.
    Addons are not made officially by ZOS, so not everyone is comfortable installing them.

    But the game has been around for over a decade and ZOS didn't disable addons in PvP, so maybe they see no issue with that.
    PvP players certainly don't, cause they'll go with "just install them yourself" - no, thank you, I like seeing whats happening on my screen.

    So I won't act like know-it-all, or that everyone thinks the same as me.
  • Goregram1
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    what would people log in for if there was no power creep to chase? this is what zos considers content in 2026
  • Luneca
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    Goregram1 wrote: »
    what would people log in for if there was no power creep to chase? this is what zos considers content in 2026

    Well power has always been content in this game, except this time the classes themselves and the "reworks" are the content. It's an approach I don't agree with, but what I believe doesn't matter.
    XVestigeXx wrote: »
    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.

    I guess they could could make it so that each subclassed skill line removes 1 class mastery so you could be incentivized to only do 1 subclass and not 2 and open some diversity there allowing people to subclass 2 if they wanted

    They can't do that because even class masteries are not balanced. With subclassing it would be too powerful, esp. the sorc ones.
    XVestigeXx wrote: »
    Dovahmiim wrote: »
    Don't bother proposing anything, ZOS don't listen, especially when it's a good suggestion :P

    There are days I'm glad they don't, since the idea of limiting subclassing to 1 skill line is something I'd oppose heavily.

    Why? subclassing seems to be mostly dead as is with class masteries now no?

    Different people play in different ways. My brother is still using a subclass build for templar that we made together in PvP and PvE and it's still better than pure templar in reality. Keep in mind that paper stats mean nothing if the players does not play in a way that takes advantage of them. Though in this game, paper stats mean nothing most of the time, esp. in PvP.

    And yet that's how ZOS is balancing the game which is why it's so poorly balanced right now and will continue to be so.

    Also for some of us, including me, flexibility is more important than any amount of power.

    I ran Rally on mag builds long before hybridization and played hybrids in PvP too because I hated how stupid negate magic was and DK wings at the time. For someone like that, no change is going to force me to give up the ability to have two skills lines that I choose.
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