This Rooster is, by far, the most worthy reward in the Tomes

GeneralGrundmann · August 17

ESO_player123 wrote: »

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

Evil McBadface is an awesome name for a really ugly and nefarious orc necromancer!

To the character creator ad once!

Still a better name choice for such character than Zumog Phoom (whom we meet in Nothern Elsweyr).

Yeah, that one was "special". Concerning the cringe-factor, this name came close to "Baby Fark McGee-zax" for me.

Ruthless · August 17

bought it thanks for the info

virtus753 · August 18

Syldras wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

This is a long-established device in fictional works called “significant/signifying/speaking names,” where onomastics intentionally reflect an identifying characteristic. (Apparently those terms weren’t enough, or at least not Greek enough, and it’s now also called charactonym by Merriam-Webster, though the OED doesn’t recognize that term.)

When I studied philology (which included literature history, linguistics, including historical linguistics, and rhetoric), I came across the term "aptronym" for that. I didn't study in an English-language country, though (I'm not even a native English speaker), so perhaps there are differences when it comes to the names of certain figures of speech (that's what it's called here anyway) in different languages.

virtus753 wrote: »

It’s interesting to me that this can be felt to be cringey and uncreative in some contexts but deeply meaningful in others. I’ve never seen Aslan called out, for example. Felix (as in the cartoon cat) is a pun thousands of years old. Pangloss, Golightly, Milquetoast. Harry Potter is full of them.

I found Aslan for a lion a bit silly (Which does not diminish the quality of the overall narration, mind you; also it wasn't super obvious for most people, I guess, since most people don't know any Turkish?), and in Harry Potter it''s even worse (though not as bad as all those pseudo-Latin spells which I've already found, how the kids nowadays call it, "cringe", even when I was a teen myself). Felix? A pun, indeed. With Pangloss, do you mean the character from Candide? He was meant to be a caricature, a parody on the philosopher Leibniz. I can't say anything about the others, as I simply don't know their stories and the context they appear in.

But have you noticed a thing about your list? These characters who use such names are mostly from children's media, cartoons/comics, or used for parody characters. Is ESO a children's game or a cartoon, or are the characters here supposed to be parodies?

Yeah, I can see how the names do have different value when one recognizes their meaning ahead of time. That’s why Aslan may work for many readers (even adults), while naming him Leo might have inspired less awe and more laughs or groans. Pangloss (all tongue) from Candide is certainly a parody, but not all are. Some just match the name to the nature as part of constructing identity without intending parody (that is, humor specifically designed to mock or ridicule by imitation).

I just threw out a few examples, but they’re not exhaustive. It’s also a longstanding convention in myth and epic literature in many cultures, which is something Tolkien was drawing on when he wrote his works (plural). When Autolycus (the wolf himself, a trickster archetype) was chosen as the name of the master thief in Xena, that fit in well with the campy nature of the show, but the name comes from the mythical thief who was appropriately the maternal grandfather of Odysseus, the man whose nature as a veritable sneakball is called out in his very first descriptor in his epic. And while myths and epics may be appealing to children, and do contain some parodic elements, they were not seen as only parodic or childish by adults, who actively used them to define their own identities and relate to each other not just religiously but socially and politically and artistically, etc. And yes, sometimes simply for fun by including winking nods for their audience to find. That’s how I would characterize most of these, even if some are additionally meant as parody and/or for children. Not all winking nods fit into those boxes, though, and I think many in TES/ESO don’t.

To go back to Torbjorn: Skyrim is not aimed at children (GameStop literally would not sell you the game in the U.S. if you were under 17—I got carded when I bought it), nor is the meaning of his name (which would, like Autolycus, escape most of an audience of children, who would also not be as likely as adult players to use their resources to look it up). You can also look at Wankeen for an example of another onomastic pun in ESO most definitely not intended or suitable for children. (The devs confirmed this reference was intended to sound like what it sounds like.) But speaking names as a trope I think frequently fall under humor more generally, especially when the meaning lands (whether that’s before or after). That’s why onomastic puns have been a frequent feature of advertising for millennia: humor hinges on the unexpected, and that’s memorable. And maybe that’s ultimately why some find these names cringe while others find them clever—we don’t all agree on whether a given attempt at humor lands. That’s probably due to a combination of our own individual senses of humor along with whether we found the twist foreseeable or not. If you see in Cambio something too on-the-nose (certainly a legitimate opinion), perhaps someone else finds humor in the allusion (also a legitimate opinion). Perhaps that’s the case for all of these.

Thank you for the food for thought either way.

Lugaldu · August 18

ESO_player123 wrote: »

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

Evil McBadface is an awesome name for a really ugly and nefarious orc necromancer!

To the character creator ad once!

Still a better name choice for such character than Zumog Phoom (whom we meet in Nothern Elsweyr).

Since I just met him yesterday again, now I want to know what is it about that name Zumog Phoom? As a non-English speaker, it does not look any strange for me on the first view.

ESO_player123 · August 18

Lugaldu wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

Evil McBadface is an awesome name for a really ugly and nefarious orc necromancer!

To the character creator ad once!

Still a better name choice for such character than Zumog Phoom (whom we meet in Nothern Elsweyr).

Since I just met him yesterday again, now I want to know what is it about that name Zumog Phoom? As a non-English speaker, it does not look any strange for me on the first view.

Even though I'm an American (as in US), English was not my first language either. To me the name sounds silly to the point I could not take him seriously in the Northen Elsweyr questline.

katanagirl1 · August 18

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

Evil McBadface is an awesome name for a really ugly and nefarious orc necromancer!

To the character creator ad once!

Still a better name choice for such character than Zumog Phoom (whom we meet in Nothern Elsweyr).

Since I just met him yesterday again, now I want to know what is it about that name Zumog Phoom? As a non-English speaker, it does not look any strange for me on the first view.

Even though I'm an American (as in US), English was not my first language either. To me the name sounds silly to the point I could not take him seriously in the Northen Elsweyr questline.

It’s right up there with Count Dooku in the later Star Wars movies with me.

Elvenheart · August 19

Diebesgut wrote: »

... I don't care at all what he looks like. You've found something valuable—call the Rooster! You've got a bounty—call the Rooster. He's small, handy, and you can send him away again immediately.

The perfect helper for my Khajiit

Does your Khajiit like fried chicken? 🤔

BardokRedSnow · August 19

Lokiator wrote: »

The major attraction of the Rooster is the fact that it can LAUNDER. Making it 100% more useful than the Fence you get from the Thieves Guild storyline.

With the Rooster, you never have to go a Thieves Guild to dispose of ill-gotten goods ever again. And there was much rejoicing...

this is the only thing said thats ever made me want to upgrade this specific tome

agelonestar · August 19

Am I right in thinking that only the account owner can use this? So, if I put it in a guild hall it can't be used by other people?

DenverRalphy · August 19

agelonestar wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that only the account owner can use this? So, if I put it in a guild hall it can't be used by other people?

Never really contemplated that myself, but now looking back on the description it does state "He steers clear of Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds, an his services are only for you."

So probably. Pirharri is the same but I always attributed that to her being tied to an achievement.

DenverRalphy · August 19

oops, double post. kindly delete.

Syldras · August 19

virtus753 wrote: »

I just threw out a few examples, but they’re not exhaustive. It’s also a longstanding convention in myth and epic literature in many cultures, which is something Tolkien was drawing on when he wrote his works (plural). When Autolycus (the wolf himself, a trickster archetype) was chosen as the name of the master thief in Xena, that fit in well with the campy nature of the show, but the name comes from the mythical thief who was appropriately the maternal grandfather of Odysseus, the man whose nature as a veritable sneakball is called out in his very first descriptor in his epic.

Yes, I know, I've read the myths of different cultures. I love many of them, and think that many also carry importance until today - but I'm also aware that they are witnesses of their specific era and culture, telling us something about the beliefs and traditions of that time. Like I said, I would not mind at all if ESO would utilize speaking names that do just that: tell us more about Tamriel. Names that tell us the values of one of Tamriel's cultures, or their beliefs, refering to historical figures from that culture, or to Aedra or Daedra worship - all fine with me. I'd actually love that. And I don't mind the typical speaking Nord family names either, for example.

But Abrasia and Cambio are not that. They don't refer to Tamriel, they have no deeper meaning. They are no allusions to anything. They are just not-very-creative-looking, on-your-nose descriptors, for that npc's one function (in case of Cambio), or for their one character trait (in case of Abrasia). That's a problem by itself: ESO characters becoming more one-note or returning characters getting simplified until they look like caricatures. The names being like that now feels like another step into that direction to me. A step away from carefully adding to existing Tamriel lore and showing us more and giving us deeper understanding about this fictional world, and instead going into the direction of funny, meme-y, generic modern real world writing.

And the level of obviousness of these two names indeed reminds me more of Leo the Lion or Stealy the thievish magpie, or whatever, from children's stories or similar, not of classical works. They carry an almost humourous air, but I'm not sure if they should? Abrasia is, apart from the blunt name, not a funny character, and the Thieves Guild story is no comedy. I'm just not sure if it fits ESO/TES or the fictional world the stories take place in (which, of course, is a subjective decision).

I'm absolutely not against speaking names per se - I'm against blunt, obvious names. I'm not even against refering to something in the real world, if it fits Tamriel well and feels at least a bit creative. I don't think naming an ice sprit after the word for snow used by a Siberian tribe would bother me. Or naming a fire atronach after a Polynesian volcano. For the most people that's obscure enough, and if it's an interesting name, it might make you wonder if it's made up or where it's from, and you might even learn a thing.

Literary allusions are also fine to me, I guess, even if they might be a bit obvious. Imagine they would have introduced a Breton master thief called Arsène - sure, it would have been an obvious nod to Arsène Lupin, not the most original idea, but I think I would have been fine with that. But would they go a step further and call him Arsène Coupebourse (Cut-Purse) - that would look like parody territory to me (and for satirical works it's fine, thinking of all those character names in Asterix). Even worse if it would be even more simple and the name was Henri Voleur (Henry Thief) - now, that's something for a detective novel for kids, but apart from that? For me, that would be too silly for Tamriel.

And "Cambio"? That's not interesting or original. It's not even a real name (like Arsène or Aslan/Arslan - Aslan indeed is still a very common male first name and family name in Turkey today), just a noun. It feels like someone could remember a word of Spanish from their last vacation in Mexico and just reused that...
https://shorturl.at/FeB3n

spartaxoxo · August 19

I actually like the name Cambio Zammes, it has a nice ring to it and it's just an assistant. He makes an allusion to the old joke "Why did the chicken cross the road," in his dialogue as well. I feel like he's supposed to just be fun like "The Lusty Argonian Maid," which also has these sorts of names.

Syldras · August 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

He makes an allusion to the old joke "Why did the chicken cross the road," in his dialogue as well.

Never heard of it. It is from an American comedy show?

Dojohoda · August 19

agelonestar wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that only the account owner can use this? So, if I put it in a guild hall it can't be used by other people?

Not sure. I have it in my Coldharbour house next to the merchant and my eso account is the same name that is on this forum account. Anyone at the pcna server could check it out.

DenverRalphy · August 19

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

He makes an allusion to the old joke "Why did the chicken cross the road," in his dialogue as well.

Never heard of it. It is from an American comedy show?

It's an old joke usually learned by pre-schoolers (4 - 5 years of age). The non-punchline answer being the point of the joke. Often used in reference to meaning "sometimes the answer is so obvious it's easily missed".

Syldras · August 19

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's an old joke usually learned by pre-schoolers (4 - 5 years of age). The non-punchline answer being the point of the joke. Often used in reference to meaning "sometimes the answer is so obvious it's easily missed".

So why did it cross the road?

Dojohoda · August 19

Syldras wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's an old joke usually learned by pre-schoolers (4 - 5 years of age). The non-punchline answer being the point of the joke. Often used in reference to meaning "sometimes the answer is so obvious it's easily missed".

So why did it cross the road?

To get to the other side

Syldras · August 19

Dojohoda wrote: »

To get to the other side

That's it? Nothing gruesome happens?

spartaxoxo · August 19

Syldras wrote: »

That's it? Nothing gruesome happens?

Not in the main version of the joke but there's a ton of different variants. It's an old joke from the 1800s and is an anti-humor joke. It's one of the earliest national jokes in the US

Elvenheart · August 19

Syldras wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

To get to the other side

That's it? Nothing gruesome happens?

Sometimes it gets run over, which is sad and not a joke at all. 🐓

Finedaible · August 19

Hold up. Why can't Pirharri launder when this bought NPC can? Pirharri was the very first assistant many years before any other type of assistant even became available in the clown store and should have set the precedent for Assistants which players can obtain through gameplay. I'm not gonna praise ZoS for selling yet another solution to a problem they created by backtracking on their morals.

Syldras · August 19

Elvenheart wrote: »

Sometimes it gets run over, which is sad and not a joke at all. 🐓

That's really not fun, as chicken are awesome creatures (just like bantamguar).

But since it's a joke and kids of a certain age seem to love shocking and a bit gruesome jokes (at least from my experience back when I was that age) I expected something like that. Kids here, since generations, love sinister rhymes like "Everyone walks across the cemetery. Except for Mary, who gets carried." or "Everyone watches lions in the zoo. Except for Ruth, who's their food." Or perhaps "Everyone rides the train. Except for Max, who lies on the tracks." I'm glad nothing happened to the chicken, though!

katanagirl1 · August 19

Ah that’s pretty morbid! It does remind me of something I heard on an old Halloween LP record I heard somewhere ages ago:

Ruth and Johnny, side by side,
Went out for an auto ride.
The car hit a bump...Ruth hit a tree,
But Johnny drove on, Ruthlessly.

In the case of Abrasia, I think of it not as a name she was given, but instead one she earned, lol.

DenverRalphy · August 19

Syldras wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

To get to the other side

That's it? Nothing gruesome happens?

Hence why it's typically learned and shared at the Preschooler level.

Aislinna · August 19

agelonestar wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that only the account owner can use this? So, if I put it in a guild hall it can't be used by other people?

I just tested this with my alt account (does not own Cambio) and it was able to use the fence and launder options while in my main account house. I didn't have any bounty to test that, but I'd guess it works too.

AzuraFan · 1:02AM

Aislinna wrote: »

agelonestar wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that only the account owner can use this? So, if I put it in a guild hall it can't be used by other people?

I just tested this with my alt account (does not own Cambio) and it was able to use the fence and launder options while in my main account house. I didn't have any bounty to test that, but I'd guess it works too.

Yep, bounties work. He's a one-stop shop.

Dojohoda · 1:13AM

agelonestar wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that only the account owner can use this? So, if I put it in a guild hall it can't be used by other people?

I got on an alt account, stole a few things, got a bounty, and was able to fence, launder, and pay the bounty. Also, haggling bonuses apply if your toon has them.

ZOS_Kevin · 5:53PM

Glad to see some folks are thieving with Cambio at their side. Since Cambio is a new kind of assistant, it's always helpful to hear about how you're using the new rooster when playing. Anyone have tales of how Cambio assists you?

msetten · 6:15PM

Yes, I love him too. Now we only need a cow merchant, pig deconstructor, sheep merchant and goat armory assistant so we can start a farm in our guild houses.