Change all Skills, Attributes, Combat back to 2016 until Class Refresh

Sabre · August 18

This suggestion is to do a big test on the game and combat. Let us all have some fun and set all class skills back to 2016. No hybrid. No subclass. How would this change pvp? How would this change PVE Gameplay. Some might welcome the complexity. Wood elves with stealth bonus. Dragon Leap onto walls.

Also, while there is a little break between class refresh: This may be a good thing. The direction of the game, how the refreshes are done...all are big deals. From this perspective, hybridization and subclassing should 100% be reverted, the class refreshes balanced to agree with this change...for example arcanist beam should no be a stam skill, etc.

Lastly...consider introducing HEALING POWER as an additional thing separate from SPELL and WEAPON damage. Heal magic vs destruction magic vs. martial skills. This would make all pve content and pvp content much more challenging and strategic. Players would have some big balance choices. Especially, too if max stat determined 50% of damage (mag/spell/heal & stam/weapon etc). Max stat effects would prevent health stacking.

Remember when heavy armor buffed weapon damage? Medium only buffed crit? What if all offensive damage were removed from armors...and they became more defensive. This would agree with 'wear any armor' for your build concept.

All level 50+ material should be reworked to provide different effects. A player levels through all these materials then they sit in obsolete. What if they were all equal but had different effects if used in gear creation? imagine the diversity. some magical qualities, crit effects, etc etc...when combined with class sets...more diversity. Also make 4pc sets out of some outdated sets.

Revert hybrid/subclass...make more weapons. Separate shields from 1h. make 1h a skill line. make offhand handheld things. chain mail. make new classes. falconry. ninja stam class. demon controlling class (pet dremora). make crown store pet fighter followers.

ItsNotLiving · August 18

Would actually love to go back to 2016 gameplay.

YffresTrill · August 18

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

Sabre · August 18

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.

Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.

Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.

YffresTrill · August 18

Sabre wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.

Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.

Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.

No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.

All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.

DarkStrifeYT · August 18

I support this

SilverIce58 · August 18

Yeah bc its just that easy to roll back every combat update from the last 10 years lmao

Sabre · August 18

YffresTrill wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.

Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.

Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.

No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.

All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.

I understand what you mean. However, these are choices you should never have had to begin with. Tough discussion. I feel what you are saying. Once something is given, even bad things, it is hard to remove it. That is part of the folly of giving everybody everything.
I think you have plenty of choice for your RP. You could all roleplay some cataclysm changed your powers. You have so many skills from Miain Class skills, weapon skills, then all the World Skills, Guild Skills, PvP Skills...you literally have dozens upon dozens of skill lines beyond your class even without subclassing. Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, etc. etc. Plus, cross your fingers...what if there were some new skill lines in future content? That isn't enough with which to RP if the actual game is better balanced?

LadyGP · August 18

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

Nah, subclassing (yet anothe ttrned ZoS chased wayy to late) needs to go. That and scribing were some of the worst things ZoS could have done in the last 5 years IMO.

Bring back class identity. Bring back slightly simplified skills/sets before we got all this super weird stuff, bring back the simplicity of it all. 2017 was peak.

- xcatguy

LadyGP · August 18

YffresTrill wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.

Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.

Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.

No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.

All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.

Correct.

Yes.

That is literally what most people want to remove.

Your choice - log onto another toon.

- xcatguy

karthrag_inak · August 18

LOL. that'd be horrible. Glad that'll never happen.

YffresTrill · August 18

Sabre wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.

Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.

Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.

No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.

All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.

I understand what you mean. However, these are choices you should never have had to begin with. Tough discussion. I feel what you are saying. Once something is given, even bad things, it is hard to remove it. That is part of the folly of giving everybody everything.
I think you have plenty of choice for your RP. You could all roleplay some cataclysm changed your powers. You have so many skills from Miain Class skills, weapon skills, then all the World Skills, Guild Skills, PvP Skills...you literally have dozens upon dozens of skill lines beyond your class even without subclassing. Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, etc. etc. Plus, cross your fingers...what if there were some new skill lines in future content? That isn't enough with which to RP if the actual game is better balanced?

Thank you for the suggestion, but you don't know how I roleplay my characters and why your suggestions would not work for them.

Prior to the addition of subclassing, my characters' builds were much further away from what their skillsets were in my headcanon.

You may think I should have never had the option added and you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you every step of the way and I bow out of this back and forth.

(Edit to add: Like I said in my first post -- I do not care if subclassing is nerfed to the point where it is useless in anything except overland. Even lowest difficulty overland. So as not to impact "balance".)

Sluggy · August 18

This wouldn't even be possible at this point. They've changed the internal way so many things have been handled that there simply would be no way to revert to such old versions of the skills. They'd have to completely re-write them from scratch to mimic the old functionality and at that point, what would be the difference between that and waiting for the full refresh?

Sabre · August 18

YffresTrill wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.

Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.

Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.

No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.

All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.

I understand what you mean. However, these are choices you should never have had to begin with. Tough discussion. I feel what you are saying. Once something is given, even bad things, it is hard to remove it. That is part of the folly of giving everybody everything.
I think you have plenty of choice for your RP. You could all roleplay some cataclysm changed your powers. You have so many skills from Miain Class skills, weapon skills, then all the World Skills, Guild Skills, PvP Skills...you literally have dozens upon dozens of skill lines beyond your class even without subclassing. Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, etc. etc. Plus, cross your fingers...what if there were some new skill lines in future content? That isn't enough with which to RP if the actual game is better balanced?

Thank you for the suggestion, but you don't know how I roleplay my characters and why your suggestions would not work for them.

Prior to the addition of subclassing, my characters' builds were much further away from what their skillsets were in my headcanon.

You may think I should have never had the option added and you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you every step of the way and I bow out of this back and forth.

(Edit to add: Like I said in my first post -- I do not care if subclassing is nerfed to the point where it is useless in anything except overland. Even lowest difficulty overland. So as not to impact "balance".)

I care about the overall game class and skill purity and you said you care only about your RP character in your headcanon. We obviouly aren't going to work this out arguing. I agree with you on this - let's leave it there.

Sabre · August 18

Sluggy wrote: »

This wouldn't even be possible at this point. They've changed the internal way so many things have been handled that there simply would be no way to revert to such old versions of the skills. They'd have to completely re-write them from scratch to mimic the old functionality and at that point, what would be the difference between that and waiting for the full refresh?

Many of the changes they make are numbers adjustments. The actual animations etc are all basically the same. They are programmers. This is the game they program. They could snap it out in a week easily.

Weesacs · August 18

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Would actually love to go back to 2016 gameplay.

Unkillable sorcs - no thanks.

fizl101 · August 18

No thanks

Oceanchanter · August 18

Reading this makes me actually happy ZOS doesn't listen to our feedback and suggestions.

ItsNotLiving · August 18

Weesacs wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Would actually love to go back to 2016 gameplay.

Unkillable sorcs - no thanks.

Do NOT show this guy the average battleground in u50 lol.

SilverIce58 · August 18

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Reading this makes me actually happy ZOS doesn't listen to our feedback and suggestions.

Or rather that they know what can be real feedback vs this.

DoofusMax · August 18

2016? That means a whole bunch of classless Wardens (2017), Necromancers (2019), and Arcanists (2023), and no way to subclass out of that problem because no subclassing, either. I'm sure that whole idea will go over well.

Radiate77 · August 18

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

Subclassing is already in the gutter after Class Mastery was introduced. We went from seeing everyone Subclass to only seeing people sub Ardent Flame. For PvE, the highest parse is a ‘Pure’ Class and supports have access to now necessary group buffs simply for not using the system.

Class Mastery and “for each _insert class_ ability slotted” have both completely killed the joy of Subclassing unique but powerful build combinations… the second one even took using weapon/world/guild skills completely off the table.

Arunei · August 18

"I don't like X addition to the game therefore obviously they need to be removed so the game is what I, a single player, want it to be like."

There are single-player games for just that reason. You cannot realistically expect to be catered to in an MMO where just as many people like something as they dislike it. If something bothers you so much you genuinely cannot stand it or its existence in the game makes the game feel bad to play, there are plenty of other games out there.

Valkanos · August 18

Something like Classic ESO? Yeah, I’d 100% support that and even buy the game again if I had to and I’d keep my ESO+ . That’s definitely something I’d love to see instead of the version of ESO we have now.

karthrag_inak · August 18

If rolling back combat is the idea, khajiit says "why stop there?" Let's roll back ALL the way, back when all the decisions were cool, and only the l33t got any meat!

https://youtu.be/pMFyBFXy6C4?t=697

SilverIce58 · August 18

Radiate77 wrote: »

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

Subclassing is already in the gutter after Class Mastery was introduced. We went from seeing everyone Subclass to only seeing people sub Ardent Flame. For PvE, the highest parse is a ‘Pure’ Class and supports have access to now necessary group buffs simply for not using the system.

Class Mastery and “for each _insert class_ ability slotted” have both completely killed the joy of Subclassing unique but powerful build combinations… the second one even took using weapon/world/guild skills completely off the table.

[snip]

[snipped for trolling]

Honestly doesn't matter what pvers are parsing at as every pve level content in the game is able to be cleared beyond top trial antics with players subclassed or not as everything has already been cleared by subclassed players, nonsubclassed players, and players using the class masteries and whatnot. Players being able to subclass does not take away someone's ability to clear content. They might even do better with a subclassed build they created than a pure class mockup they took off somebody's website.

AllenaNightWood · August 18

YffresTrill wrote: »

No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.

I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.

i was able to grow my character thanks to subclassing becasue she has learned new skill and moved away from Rogueish bad girl to a helpful and less shadowy person

CatalinaWineMixer2 · 5:18AM

The game was better without Subclass. Nothing has driven more people away from the game. Subclassing can't be removed soon enough. It is a broken cherry picking system and an absolute disaster. But don't worry, their "solution" to it is 2030 and beyond. But let's be honest, does anyone really belive that's really going to happen in that time frame?