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Change all Skills, Attributes, Combat back to 2016 until Class Refresh
Sabre
✭✭✭
This suggestion is to do a big test on the game and combat. Let us all have some fun and set all class skills back to 2016. No hybrid. No subclass. How would this change pvp? How would this change PVE Gameplay. Some might welcome the complexity. Wood elves with stealth bonus. Dragon Leap onto walls.
Also, while there is a little break between class refresh: This may be a good thing. The direction of the game, how the refreshes are done...all are big deals. From this perspective, hybridization and subclassing should 100% be reverted, the class refreshes balanced to agree with this change...for example arcanist beam should no be a stam skill, etc.
Lastly...consider introducing HEALING POWER as an additional thing separate from SPELL and WEAPON damage. Heal magic vs destruction magic vs. martial skills. This would make all pve content and pvp content much more challenging and strategic. Players would have some big balance choices. Especially, too if max stat determined 50% of damage (mag/spell/heal & stam/weapon etc). Max stat effects would prevent health stacking.
Remember when heavy armor buffed weapon damage? Medium only buffed crit? What if all offensive damage were removed from armors...and they became more defensive. This would agree with 'wear any armor' for your build concept.
All level 50+ material should be reworked to provide different effects. A player levels through all these materials then they sit in obsolete. What if they were all equal but had different effects if used in gear creation? imagine the diversity. some magical qualities, crit effects, etc etc...when combined with class sets...more diversity. Also make 4pc sets out of some outdated sets.
Revert hybrid/subclass...make more weapons. Separate shields from 1h. make 1h a skill line. make offhand handheld things. chain mail. make new classes. falconry. ninja stam class. demon controlling class (pet dremora). make crown store pet fighter followers.
Also, while there is a little break between class refresh: This may be a good thing. The direction of the game, how the refreshes are done...all are big deals. From this perspective, hybridization and subclassing should 100% be reverted, the class refreshes balanced to agree with this change...for example arcanist beam should no be a stam skill, etc.
Lastly...consider introducing HEALING POWER as an additional thing separate from SPELL and WEAPON damage. Heal magic vs destruction magic vs. martial skills. This would make all pve content and pvp content much more challenging and strategic. Players would have some big balance choices. Especially, too if max stat determined 50% of damage (mag/spell/heal & stam/weapon etc). Max stat effects would prevent health stacking.
Remember when heavy armor buffed weapon damage? Medium only buffed crit? What if all offensive damage were removed from armors...and they became more defensive. This would agree with 'wear any armor' for your build concept.
All level 50+ material should be reworked to provide different effects. A player levels through all these materials then they sit in obsolete. What if they were all equal but had different effects if used in gear creation? imagine the diversity. some magical qualities, crit effects, etc etc...when combined with class sets...more diversity. Also make 4pc sets out of some outdated sets.
Revert hybrid/subclass...make more weapons. Separate shields from 1h. make 1h a skill line. make offhand handheld things. chain mail. make new classes. falconry. ninja stam class. demon controlling class (pet dremora). make crown store pet fighter followers.
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YffresTrill✭✭✭✭✭No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.@ Yffre'sTrill - PC/EU (No Steam)14 -
Sabre✭✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.
Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.
Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.1 -
YffresTrill✭✭✭✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.
Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.
Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.
No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.
All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.@ Yffre'sTrill - PC/EU (No Steam)8 -
DarkStrifeYT✭✭✭I support thisI am dark strife. Khajiit since arena... ya know when they were humans... with face paint... still khajiit only all games...0 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah bc its just that easy to roll back every combat update from the last 10 years lmaoPC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC13 -
Sabre✭✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.
Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.
Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.
No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.
All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.
I understand what you mean. However, these are choices you should never have had to begin with. Tough discussion. I feel what you are saying. Once something is given, even bad things, it is hard to remove it. That is part of the folly of giving everybody everything.
I think you have plenty of choice for your RP. You could all roleplay some cataclysm changed your powers. You have so many skills from Miain Class skills, weapon skills, then all the World Skills, Guild Skills, PvP Skills...you literally have dozens upon dozens of skill lines beyond your class even without subclassing. Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, etc. etc. Plus, cross your fingers...what if there were some new skill lines in future content? That isn't enough with which to RP if the actual game is better balanced?1 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
Nah, subclassing (yet anothe ttrned ZoS chased wayy to late) needs to go. That and scribing were some of the worst things ZoS could have done in the last 5 years IMO.
Bring back class identity. Bring back slightly simplified skills/sets before we got all this super weird stuff, bring back the simplicity of it all. 2017 was peak.
- xcatguyEdited by LadyGP on 18 August 2026 13:09LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.3 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.
Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.
Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.
No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.
All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.
Correct.
Yes.
That is literally what most people want to remove.
Your choice - log onto another toon.
- xcatguyEdited by LadyGP on 18 August 2026 13:09LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LOL. that'd be horrible. Glad that'll never happen.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?' -famous khajiit philosopher8 -
YffresTrill✭✭✭✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.
Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.
Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.
No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.
All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.
I understand what you mean. However, these are choices you should never have had to begin with. Tough discussion. I feel what you are saying. Once something is given, even bad things, it is hard to remove it. That is part of the folly of giving everybody everything.
I think you have plenty of choice for your RP. You could all roleplay some cataclysm changed your powers. You have so many skills from Miain Class skills, weapon skills, then all the World Skills, Guild Skills, PvP Skills...you literally have dozens upon dozens of skill lines beyond your class even without subclassing. Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, etc. etc. Plus, cross your fingers...what if there were some new skill lines in future content? That isn't enough with which to RP if the actual game is better balanced?
Thank you for the suggestion, but you don't know how I roleplay my characters and why your suggestions would not work for them.
Prior to the addition of subclassing, my characters' builds were much further away from what their skillsets were in my headcanon.
You may think I should have never had the option added and you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you every step of the way and I bow out of this back and forth.
(Edit to add: Like I said in my first post -- I do not care if subclassing is nerfed to the point where it is useless in anything except overland. Even lowest difficulty overland. So as not to impact "balance".)Edited by YffresTrill on 18 August 2026 13:22@ Yffre'sTrill - PC/EU (No Steam)3 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭
✭This wouldn't even be possible at this point. They've changed the internal way so many things have been handled that there simply would be no way to revert to such old versions of the skills. They'd have to completely re-write them from scratch to mimic the old functionality and at that point, what would be the difference between that and waiting for the full refresh?4 -
Sabre✭✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »YffresTrill wrote: »YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
RP wouldn't be disrupted. You always have access to all your skills. You can mix and swap any of them and any morph at any time. The game has always been this way, even pre-subclassing. Skill power would change to balance actual game content.
Thus from an RP standpoint (not sure if you all also use dice) - you could still RP the same.
Unfortunately, these types of arguments and discussions take place when a game gets into a bad place and needs to get out of it. Subclassing should never have happened, nor should Hybridization. Both broke the game.
No... with subclassing I can swap skill lines that do not suit my character concept for ones that do. If it was removed I could no longer do this.
All your suggestion would do is take away choice from players.
I understand what you mean. However, these are choices you should never have had to begin with. Tough discussion. I feel what you are saying. Once something is given, even bad things, it is hard to remove it. That is part of the folly of giving everybody everything.
I think you have plenty of choice for your RP. You could all roleplay some cataclysm changed your powers. You have so many skills from Miain Class skills, weapon skills, then all the World Skills, Guild Skills, PvP Skills...you literally have dozens upon dozens of skill lines beyond your class even without subclassing. Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Psijic Order, Soul Magic, etc. etc. Plus, cross your fingers...what if there were some new skill lines in future content? That isn't enough with which to RP if the actual game is better balanced?
Thank you for the suggestion, but you don't know how I roleplay my characters and why your suggestions would not work for them.
Prior to the addition of subclassing, my characters' builds were much further away from what their skillsets were in my headcanon.
You may think I should have never had the option added and you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you every step of the way and I bow out of this back and forth.
(Edit to add: Like I said in my first post -- I do not care if subclassing is nerfed to the point where it is useless in anything except overland. Even lowest difficulty overland. So as not to impact "balance".)
I care about the overall game class and skill purity and you said you care only about your RP character in your headcanon. We obviouly aren't going to work this out arguing. I agree with you on this - let's leave it there.1 -
Sabre✭✭✭This wouldn't even be possible at this point. They've changed the internal way so many things have been handled that there simply would be no way to revert to such old versions of the skills. They'd have to completely re-write them from scratch to mimic the old functionality and at that point, what would be the difference between that and waiting for the full refresh?
Many of the changes they make are numbers adjustments. The actual animations etc are all basically the same. They are programmers. This is the game they program. They could snap it out in a week easily.0 -
Weesacs✭✭✭✭✭ItsNotLiving wrote: »Would actually love to go back to 2016 gameplay.
Unkillable sorcs - no thanks.Breton Templar
PS5 - EU - DC0 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭Reading this makes me actually happy ZOS doesn't listen to our feedback and suggestions.7 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭✭ItsNotLiving wrote: »Would actually love to go back to 2016 gameplay.
Unkillable sorcs - no thanks.
Do NOT show this guy the average battleground in u50 lol.0 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »Reading this makes me actually happy ZOS doesn't listen to our feedback and suggestions.
Or rather that they know what can be real feedback vs this.PC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC1 -
DoofusMax✭✭✭✭✭2016? That means a whole bunch of classless Wardens (2017), Necromancers (2019), and Arcanists (2023), and no way to subclass out of that problem because no subclassing, either. I'm sure that whole idea will go over well.I'm fresh out of outrage, but I could muster up some amused annoyance if required.1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
Subclassing is already in the gutter after Class Mastery was introduced. We went from seeing everyone Subclass to only seeing people sub Ardent Flame. For PvE, the highest parse is a ‘Pure’ Class and supports have access to now necessary group buffs simply for not using the system.
Class Mastery and “for each _insert class_ ability slotted” have both completely killed the joy of Subclassing unique but powerful build combinations… the second one even took using weapon/world/guild skills completely off the table.Edited by Radiate77 on 18 August 2026 22:41Founder of New Age Crusade, the #1 Battlegrounds guild on Xbox NA0 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"I don't like X addition to the game therefore obviously they need to be removed so the game is what I, a single player, want it to be like."
There are single-player games for just that reason. You cannot realistically expect to be catered to in an MMO where just as many people like something as they dislike it. If something bothers you so much you genuinely cannot stand it or its existence in the game makes the game feel bad to play, there are plenty of other games out there.PC-NA | Been around since closed beta | Alt account: Arunei PC-NA
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time0 -
Valkanos✭✭✭Something like Classic ESO? Yeah, I’d 100% support that and even buy the game again if I had to and I’d keep my ESO+ . That’s definitely something I’d love to see instead of the version of ESO we have now.1
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karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If rolling back combat is the idea, khajiit says "why stop there?" Let's roll back ALL the way, back when all the decisions were cool, and only the l33t got any meat!
https://youtu.be/pMFyBFXy6C4?t=697
Edited by karthrag_inak on 18 August 2026 20:54PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.(Pariah's Pinacle)
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?' -famous khajiit philosopher1 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
Subclassing is already in the gutter after Class Mastery was introduced. We went from seeing everyone Subclass to only seeing people sub Ardent Flame. For PvE, the highest parse is a ‘Pure’ Class and supports have access to now necessary group buffs simply for not using the system.
Class Mastery and “for each _insert class_ ability slotted” have both completely killed the joy of Subclassing unique but powerful build combinations… the second one even took using weapon/world/guild skills completely off the table.
[snip]
[snipped for trolling]
Honestly doesn't matter what pvers are parsing at as every pve level content in the game is able to be cleared beyond top trial antics with players subclassed or not as everything has already been cleared by subclassed players, nonsubclassed players, and players using the class masteries and whatnot. Players being able to subclass does not take away someone's ability to clear content. They might even do better with a subclassed build they created than a pure class mockup they took off somebody's website.PC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC1 -
AllenaNightWood✭✭✭✭YffresTrill wrote: »No thank you. Subclassing has been a fantastic boon for creating roleplay builds that better suit how we imagine our characters' skill sets actually being. Reverting this would break almost all my characters and cause me to leave the game.
I do not like hybridisation either, but subclassing is fantastic. Please nerf it into the ground if that is necessary for top-level content, but leave it in the game.
i was able to grow my character thanks to subclassing becasue she has learned new skill and moved away from Rogueish bad girl to a helpful and less shadowy person1
