Turtle_Bot wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Sorc and it's my pvp main these days, but realistically streak just needs to be removed. Too much of the classes kit gets left in a dead state because streak makes balancing the class so hard. If you remove streak and make it into an actual phys morph/shock morph damage spammable that the class has needed for ages. I think it would be better for the class and pvp as a whole.

Streak doesn't need to be removed and lets be honest here, removing it would still not be enough for the majority of people that constantly cry about Sorc here on the forums (as evidenced by comments on a thread I made back in U36 when Sorc was designated the "crafting bench tier" class where I completely removed the stun from streak as a way to bring up the rest of the kit).

What has been needed though was the rest of the kit and the game to have been designed/adjusted in the past with it existing in mind.

Things for Sorc like:
- Clunky cast time heals/sustain on Sorc (which does exist in Dark Deal, pets)
- Unique "mitigations" that aren't the generic OP block (that used to exist in shields, pets and mobility before these were nerfed/given out to appease the constant crying of non-sorcs).
- Clunky but potent damage when combined properly (again, cast times, etc. like on frags that can also be rolled, or spread out damage like on armaments, or cleansable damage like curse)

But this also requires the rest of the game to acknowledge these balance requirements for having this ability/design and to accept they also need to be balanced accordingly, such as:
-No free speed/mobility being generically given out to everyone (if escaping/shielding to use clunky heals are the designed way for Sorc to recover, it needs to be allowed the opportunity to do that, not just have every other class easily chase after it while maintaining full pressure or just straight up deleting shields as they are being cast).
- No infinite hard counters such as infinite roll dodges, perma blocking or perma uptime on unique and powerful hard counters such as wings. These counters should exist but should not be able to be permanently active.

Again, the original design of Sorc was that there should be windows to play, outplay and counterplay Sorc, but the vast majority of players of other classes don't want to see such balance, they just want a target dummy that sits there not fighting back, not healing up and not running away, while their class has everything and more.

The current state of Sorc is a direct result of all of the uninformed and biased complaints about the class over the last decade by players that never actually wanted proper balance, they just wanted free/easy kills, and for their class to have everything that every other class had but without any of the drawbacks that are supposed to be checks and balances to such unique mechanics.

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Werewolf Skill Cost Changes

The changes feel like an attempt to balance Conservation of Energy by increasing the cost of skills on Werewolf.

And i guess it does make a certain sense, sorcerer werewolf is a problem due to having an overabundance of sustain in pvp.

But this change feels terrible on Arcanist Werewolf, Warden Werewolf, Templar Werewolf, Nightblade Werewolf, DragonKnight Werewolf and Necromancer Werewolf.

So while it does somehow bring sorcerer Werewolfs sustain in line (though not even that well), it prevents the vast majority of classes from using Werewolf in pvp.

The changes to Hircine's Fortitude also feel like an attempt to bring werewolfs potential for healing more in line with other builds. But again most of the healing for a werewolf, specially a sorcerer werewolf comes from Rip and Tear and again Conservation of Energy.

This means the nerfs won't affect Sorcerer Werewolf with Conservation of Energy much as they will be able to sustain and heal relatively well with Conservaton of Energy and Rip and Tear and in the meanwhile none of the other classes will be able to use werewolf for pvp.

In my opinion this will require an other nerf further down the line because the werewolf changes miss the mark for the most part.

In my opinion the cost changes for werewolf should be reverted, rip and tear healing nerfed and hircines fortitude buffed to compensate. And finally, conservation of energy should have its healing and sustain reduced with battle spirit active.

Because the werewolf changes are very reasonable when viewed with conservation of energy sorcerer ww in mind but when wieved as 'pure' ww changes, they make the archetype borderline unplayable while leaving the biggest problem with the archetype, that being the healing on rip and tear and sorcerer conservation of energy class mastery, alone.

I actually 100% agree with the assessment here. Nerf Conservation of Energy (it's not just problematic on werewolves) and reallocate healing power from the passive Rip and Tear into Hircine's Fortitude/Rage.

I'd argue in addition to the reallocation that Hircine's Rage requires additional scaling. There's no reason I should have 6k+ WD and still see Fortitude pulling better numbers when the build is clearly leaning towards damage at that point. The current system just incentivises high health even more.

You can’t nerf ww by nerfing conservation of energy because it’s not a ww skill.
If it’s rly that much of an issue then ww shouldn’t be able to benefit from class masteries at all, problem solved, no need to gut everything. Now you can play ww on every class equally, exactly what all of you are asking for.

Tell me you don't play werewolf without telling me you don't play werewolf.

Every single "problematic" werewolf in pvp out there is using sorcerer because CoE provides so incredibly much value. Those that aren't using sorc can and are stam/mag checked relatively easily. The culprit isn't werewolf, it's the damn passive like we've been saying since day 1 of the U50 pts.

The point is if they nerf conservation of energy to nerf ww they nuke sorc instead. It’s class passive first and foremost, not ww, you can’t balance everything around ww, rather the opposite.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Sorc and it's my pvp main these days, but realistically streak just needs to be removed. Too much of the classes kit gets left in a dead state because streak makes balancing the class so hard. If you remove streak and make it into an actual phys morph/shock morph damage spammable that the class has needed for ages. I think it would be better for the class and pvp as a whole.

Streak doesn't need to be removed and lets be honest here, removing it would still not be enough for the majority of people that constantly cry about Sorc here on the forums (as evidenced by comments on a thread I made back in U36 when Sorc was designated the "crafting bench tier" class where I completely removed the stun from streak as a way to bring up the rest of the kit).

What has been needed though was the rest of the kit and the game to have been designed/adjusted in the past with it existing in mind.

Things for Sorc like:
- Clunky cast time heals/sustain on Sorc (which does exist in Dark Deal, pets)
- Unique "mitigations" that aren't the generic OP block (that used to exist in shields, pets and mobility before these were nerfed/given out to appease the constant crying of non-sorcs).
- Clunky but potent damage when combined properly (again, cast times, etc. like on frags that can also be rolled, or spread out damage like on armaments, or cleansable damage like curse)

But this also requires the rest of the game to acknowledge these balance requirements for having this ability/design and to accept they also need to be balanced accordingly, such as:
-No free speed/mobility being generically given out to everyone (if escaping/shielding to use clunky heals are the designed way for Sorc to recover, it needs to be allowed the opportunity to do that, not just have every other class easily chase after it while maintaining full pressure or just straight up deleting shields as they are being cast).
- No infinite hard counters such as infinite roll dodges, perma blocking or perma uptime on unique and powerful hard counters such as wings. These counters should exist but should not be able to be permanently active.

Again, the original design of Sorc was that there should be windows to play, outplay and counterplay Sorc, but the vast majority of players of other classes don't want to see such balance, they just want a target dummy that sits there not fighting back, not healing up and not running away, while their class has everything and more.

The current state of Sorc is a direct result of all of the uninformed and biased complaints about the class over the last decade by players that never actually wanted proper balance, they just wanted free/easy kills, and for their class to have everything that every other class had but without any of the drawbacks that are supposed to be checks and balances to such unique mechanics.

No one will ever be happy on here. The point of the forum is for people to complain lol. I just think conceptually streak is too much of an outlier vs all the other skills in the game and ZOS already has troubles with balancing vanilla skills and concepts. Giving Sorc uncapped move speed as a response to removing streak would be a fine trade imo. I also think that Sorc just has so many redundant and dead skills that are left in that state because streak just raises the classes power floor too high by itself. Uncap move speed, buff shields, (remove pets), and give them a phys and shock spammable and the class sounds a lot better imo.

That would be an interesting way to give sorc back it's mobility aspect. The only downside I see is the current positional desync issues that could be greatly exacerbated by increasing speed even more than we currently have (something that has become very problematic as more classes move around at closer to the speed cap than they did in the past and was part of the reason for the melee range increase a couple years ago).

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Werewolf Skill Cost Changes

The changes feel like an attempt to balance Conservation of Energy by increasing the cost of skills on Werewolf.

And i guess it does make a certain sense, sorcerer werewolf is a problem due to having an overabundance of sustain in pvp.

But this change feels terrible on Arcanist Werewolf, Warden Werewolf, Templar Werewolf, Nightblade Werewolf, DragonKnight Werewolf and Necromancer Werewolf.

So while it does somehow bring sorcerer Werewolfs sustain in line (though not even that well), it prevents the vast majority of classes from using Werewolf in pvp.

The changes to Hircine's Fortitude also feel like an attempt to bring werewolfs potential for healing more in line with other builds. But again most of the healing for a werewolf, specially a sorcerer werewolf comes from Rip and Tear and again Conservation of Energy.

This means the nerfs won't affect Sorcerer Werewolf with Conservation of Energy much as they will be able to sustain and heal relatively well with Conservaton of Energy and Rip and Tear and in the meanwhile none of the other classes will be able to use werewolf for pvp.

In my opinion this will require an other nerf further down the line because the werewolf changes miss the mark for the most part.

In my opinion the cost changes for werewolf should be reverted, rip and tear healing nerfed and hircines fortitude buffed to compensate. And finally, conservation of energy should have its healing and sustain reduced with battle spirit active.

Because the werewolf changes are very reasonable when viewed with conservation of energy sorcerer ww in mind but when wieved as 'pure' ww changes, they make the archetype borderline unplayable while leaving the biggest problem with the archetype, that being the healing on rip and tear and sorcerer conservation of energy class mastery, alone.

I actually 100% agree with the assessment here. Nerf Conservation of Energy (it's not just problematic on werewolves) and reallocate healing power from the passive Rip and Tear into Hircine's Fortitude/Rage.

I'd argue in addition to the reallocation that Hircine's Rage requires additional scaling. There's no reason I should have 6k+ WD and still see Fortitude pulling better numbers when the build is clearly leaning towards damage at that point. The current system just incentivises high health even more.

You can’t nerf ww by nerfing conservation of energy because it’s not a ww skill.
If it’s rly that much of an issue then ww shouldn’t be able to benefit from class masteries at all, problem solved, no need to gut everything. Now you can play ww on every class equally, exactly what all of you are asking for.

Tell me you don't play werewolf without telling me you don't play werewolf.

Every single "problematic" werewolf in pvp out there is using sorcerer because CoE provides so incredibly much value. Those that aren't using sorc can and are stam/mag checked relatively easily. The culprit isn't werewolf, it's the damn passive like we've been saying since day 1 of the U50 pts.

The point is if they nerf conservation of energy to nerf ww they nuke sorc instead. It’s class passive first and foremost, not ww, you can’t balance everything around ww, rather the opposite.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Sorc and it's my pvp main these days, but realistically streak just needs to be removed. Too much of the classes kit gets left in a dead state because streak makes balancing the class so hard. If you remove streak and make it into an actual phys morph/shock morph damage spammable that the class has needed for ages. I think it would be better for the class and pvp as a whole.

Streak doesn't need to be removed and lets be honest here, removing it would still not be enough for the majority of people that constantly cry about Sorc here on the forums (as evidenced by comments on a thread I made back in U36 when Sorc was designated the "crafting bench tier" class where I completely removed the stun from streak as a way to bring up the rest of the kit).

What has been needed though was the rest of the kit and the game to have been designed/adjusted in the past with it existing in mind.

Things for Sorc like:
- Clunky cast time heals/sustain on Sorc (which does exist in Dark Deal, pets)
- Unique "mitigations" that aren't the generic OP block (that used to exist in shields, pets and mobility before these were nerfed/given out to appease the constant crying of non-sorcs).
- Clunky but potent damage when combined properly (again, cast times, etc. like on frags that can also be rolled, or spread out damage like on armaments, or cleansable damage like curse)

But this also requires the rest of the game to acknowledge these balance requirements for having this ability/design and to accept they also need to be balanced accordingly, such as:
-No free speed/mobility being generically given out to everyone (if escaping/shielding to use clunky heals are the designed way for Sorc to recover, it needs to be allowed the opportunity to do that, not just have every other class easily chase after it while maintaining full pressure or just straight up deleting shields as they are being cast).
- No infinite hard counters such as infinite roll dodges, perma blocking or perma uptime on unique and powerful hard counters such as wings. These counters should exist but should not be able to be permanently active.

Again, the original design of Sorc was that there should be windows to play, outplay and counterplay Sorc, but the vast majority of players of other classes don't want to see such balance, they just want a target dummy that sits there not fighting back, not healing up and not running away, while their class has everything and more.

The current state of Sorc is a direct result of all of the uninformed and biased complaints about the class over the last decade by players that never actually wanted proper balance, they just wanted free/easy kills, and for their class to have everything that every other class had but without any of the drawbacks that are supposed to be checks and balances to such unique mechanics.

Dizzy_Dragon wrote: »

BTW; those using the argument that Sorc CoE should be nerfed due to WW overpowered sustain are waaaaay off target. You don't change a base game class, because WW is sustaining too well. If you do it, you do it for the right reasons.

Gupitoos wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Resou

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Based on the DK and Werewolf refreshes, in conjunction with the recent Templar Balanced Warrior changes I'd like to suggest a possible idea for Sorcerer's future refresh in regards to the Expert Mage passive, w/s damage, and bonus movement speed.

Expert Mage:

• This passive now grants a base w/s damage which improves based on how many Sorcerer skills are slotted (200 + (75 x # of Sorcerer skills)), and increases your Bonus Movement Speed based on the highest of your w/s damage and how many Sorcerer skills are slotted (1% + 1% x # of Sorcerer skills + 0.005% x w/s damage). The Bonus Movement Speed is capped to 10%.

Example with 6000 w/s damage after modifiers and 4 Sorc skills slotted:

W/S damage
= 200 + (75 x 4) (50% modifier)
= 500 w/s damage x 1.5
= 750
Total = 6750

Movement Speed
(1% + 1% x # of Sorcerer skills + 0.005% x w/s damage)
= 1% + 1% x 4 + 0.0005 x 6750
= 1% + 4% + 0.0005 x 6750
= 5% + 3.375%
= 8.375%

Formula's could be adjusted for balance, as well as the cap, but general idea is the important part.

Basically same premise as Balanced Warrior and Fan the Flames, while also introducing a unique movement speed bonus for Sorcerer's that puts them slightly above other classes, something that was lost over the years with subclassing, jewelry crafting, and better access to minor expedition.

Rofl sure why not let’s give Sorc 10% extra movement speed cos they are not mobile enough already with streak.

Panderbander wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Werewolf Skill Cost Changes

The changes feel like an attempt to balance Conservation of Energy by increasing the cost of skills on Werewolf.

And i guess it does make a certain sense, sorcerer werewolf is a problem due to having an overabundance of sustain in pvp.

But this change feels terrible on Arcanist Werewolf, Warden Werewolf, Templar Werewolf, Nightblade Werewolf, DragonKnight Werewolf and Necromancer Werewolf.

So while it does somehow bring sorcerer Werewolfs sustain in line (though not even that well), it prevents the vast majority of classes from using Werewolf in pvp.

The changes to Hircine's Fortitude also feel like an attempt to bring werewolfs potential for healing more in line with other builds. But again most of the healing for a werewolf, specially a sorcerer werewolf comes from Rip and Tear and again Conservation of Energy.

This means the nerfs won't affect Sorcerer Werewolf with Conservation of Energy much as they will be able to sustain and heal relatively well with Conservaton of Energy and Rip and Tear and in the meanwhile none of the other classes will be able to use werewolf for pvp.

In my opinion this will require an other nerf further down the line because the werewolf changes miss the mark for the most part.

In my opinion the cost changes for werewolf should be reverted, rip and tear healing nerfed and hircines fortitude buffed to compensate. And finally, conservation of energy should have its healing and sustain reduced with battle spirit active.

Because the werewolf changes are very reasonable when viewed with conservation of energy sorcerer ww in mind but when wieved as 'pure' ww changes, they make the archetype borderline unplayable while leaving the biggest problem with the archetype, that being the healing on rip and tear and sorcerer conservation of energy class mastery, alone.

I actually 100% agree with the assessment here. Nerf Conservation of Energy (it's not just problematic on werewolves) and reallocate healing power from the passive Rip and Tear into Hircine's Fortitude/Rage.

I'd argue in addition to the reallocation that Hircine's Rage requires additional scaling. There's no reason I should have 6k+ WD and still see Fortitude pulling better numbers when the build is clearly leaning towards damage at that point. The current system just incentivises high health even more.

You can’t nerf ww by nerfing conservation of energy because it’s not a ww skill.
If it’s rly that much of an issue then ww shouldn’t be able to benefit from class masteries at all, problem solved, no need to gut everything. Now you can play ww on every class equally, exactly what all of you are asking for.

Tell me you don't play werewolf without telling me you don't play werewolf.

Every single "problematic" werewolf in pvp out there is using sorcerer because CoE provides so incredibly much value. Those that aren't using sorc can and are stam/mag checked relatively easily. The culprit isn't werewolf, it's the damn passive like we've been saying since day 1 of the U50 pts.

The point is if they nerf conservation of energy to nerf ww they nuke sorc instead. It’s class passive first and foremost, not ww, you can’t balance everything around ww, rather the opposite.

Sorc 10000% needs CoE reworked/nerfed. I don't know if you pvp or not, but Cyro and BGs are absolutely dominated by sorcs, like to the point where they make up 75-80% of all class representation in BGs. In Cyro, if it's not a DK being a bomber, it's a sorc nine times out of ten.

Werewolf IS being balanced around a sorc mastery, and every non-sorc is being punished by this change.

Fix CoE and you fix both the werewolf and sorc problem.

acanca wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Werewolf Skill Cost Changes

The changes feel like an attempt to balance Conservation of Energy by increasing the cost of skills on Werewolf.

And i guess it does make a certain sense, sorcerer werewolf is a problem due to having an overabundance of sustain in pvp.

But this change feels terrible on Arcanist Werewolf, Warden Werewolf, Templar Werewolf, Nightblade Werewolf, DragonKnight Werewolf and Necromancer Werewolf.

So while it does somehow bring sorcerer Werewolfs sustain in line (though not even that well), it prevents the vast majority of classes from using Werewolf in pvp.

The changes to Hircine's Fortitude also feel like an attempt to bring werewolfs potential for healing more in line with other builds. But again most of the healing for a werewolf, specially a sorcerer werewolf comes from Rip and Tear and again Conservation of Energy.

This means the nerfs won't affect Sorcerer Werewolf with Conservation of Energy much as they will be able to sustain and heal relatively well with Conservaton of Energy and Rip and Tear and in the meanwhile none of the other classes will be able to use werewolf for pvp.

In my opinion this will require an other nerf further down the line because the werewolf changes miss the mark for the most part.

In my opinion the cost changes for werewolf should be reverted, rip and tear healing nerfed and hircines fortitude buffed to compensate. And finally, conservation of energy should have its healing and sustain reduced with battle spirit active.

Because the werewolf changes are very reasonable when viewed with conservation of energy sorcerer ww in mind but when wieved as 'pure' ww changes, they make the archetype borderline unplayable while leaving the biggest problem with the archetype, that being the healing on rip and tear and sorcerer conservation of energy class mastery, alone.

I actually 100% agree with the assessment here. Nerf Conservation of Energy (it's not just problematic on werewolves) and reallocate healing power from the passive Rip and Tear into Hircine's Fortitude/Rage.

I'd argue in addition to the reallocation that Hircine's Rage requires additional scaling. There's no reason I should have 6k+ WD and still see Fortitude pulling better numbers when the build is clearly leaning towards damage at that point. The current system just incentivises high health even more.

You can’t nerf ww by nerfing conservation of energy because it’s not a ww skill.
If it’s rly that much of an issue then ww shouldn’t be able to benefit from class masteries at all, problem solved, no need to gut everything. Now you can play ww on every class equally, exactly what all of you are asking for.

Tell me you don't play werewolf without telling me you don't play werewolf.

Every single "problematic" werewolf in pvp out there is using sorcerer because CoE provides so incredibly much value. Those that aren't using sorc can and are stam/mag checked relatively easily. The culprit isn't werewolf, it's the damn passive like we've been saying since day 1 of the U50 pts.

The point is if they nerf conservation of energy to nerf ww they nuke sorc instead. It’s class passive first and foremost, not ww, you can’t balance everything around ww, rather the opposite.

The point is.

We knew Conservation of Energy was overpowered in the first place. We tried getting it toned down be4 it hit live. It didnt happen. And now here we are. It is obviously a problem on sorc and its what pushed ww from being an ok build to being what it is now.

Nerfing CoE is absolutely deserved, specially now that both the sustain on Core of Flame and WW as a whole is nerfed.

Yes it would mean werewolf becomes unuseable again but the mistake was trying to balance werewolf around Conservation of Energy in the first place.

Conservation of Energy is absurdly strong, giving more value than a 5 piece sustain set and a 5 piece healing set like wrethced vitality and hist sap put together (both of those were considered S tier sets not that long ago by the way)

There is no point arguing whether or not Conservation of Energy is in a healthy state. It obviously is not and should not have left pts as is, similar to core of flame. Do you want to know how both got out unscatched? Mains of their respective class came out to die on the hill that those were absolutely fine, that the class needed it.

Can we, please, stop this mindset?

Conservation of energy is totally fine rn. It’s strong as it was intended to be but not as strong as you want to picture it, it has it’s limitations. A nerf would just make it bad.

Do you think this much healing is fine?


2k heal per second. Each heal of CoE has an average of 3.9k heal btw. This is with battle spirit active and this is only the healing part.

This is better than any single heal set. And you know as well as i that CoE is better than any sustain set. If you want i can give you the math on that as well.

There is no arguing that Conservation of Energy is out of line and is way too strong as it exist currently.

Both the healing and the sustain needs to be reduced with battle spirit active for the games health. No matter what the mains of a class try to argue otherwise.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Let's stop pretending "oh, just use Battle Spirit so it can stay OP in PvE!" is a solution.

Some things are broken in PvE as well. If something is making it so you have high damage and high sustain and high survivability and everything else, that means it's also inappropriate in PvE.
"but but but I need to crutch on this for soloing!"
No, you don't. Most of the people on this train are also talking about how they're specifically trying to make their life harder - "I'm soloing group content because ew people" or "I'm playing on Vestige because ESO is babymode!" - and then they crutch on broken abilities to make those self-imposed challenges not challenging. Uhh...

Everything that's extremely strong is because of infinite sustain, allowing people to dispense with the things they should be doing instead. ESO has already made healers and supports unwelcome, and now we're at a point where people just want to throw out groups as a whole.

Yes, Core of Flame deserved that nerf. Corrosive should also get one. And Conservation of Energy needs something done - I'd say they should probably take a leaf out of Templar's book and convert Conservation of Energy to "Upgrades rank 2 of Blood Magic to work with all Sorcerer abilities with a cost," which will mean it doesn't affect Werewolves or non-sorc skills anymore, but will still be as strong for people who are playing the whole Sorc fantasy. I'd also give Werewolves the "cost with max resource" treatment, but then the costs should be in line with Class abilities.

What I am happy about though is that DK didn't get a blanket sledgehammer nerf in PTS3. The Core of Flame nerf probably should have been stronger and may still need to get a few percent knocked off, but it is nice to see scalpel nerfs instead of sledgehammers.

acanca wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Let's stop pretending "oh, just use Battle Spirit so it can stay OP in PvE!" is a solution.

Some things are broken in PvE as well. If something is making it so you have high damage and high sustain and high survivability and everything else, that means it's also inappropriate in PvE.
"but but but I need to crutch on this for soloing!"
No, you don't. Most of the people on this train are also talking about how they're specifically trying to make their life harder - "I'm soloing group content because ew people" or "I'm playing on Vestige because ESO is babymode!" - and then they crutch on broken abilities to make those self-imposed challenges not challenging. Uhh...

Everything that's extremely strong is because of infinite sustain, allowing people to dispense with the things they should be doing instead. ESO has already made healers and supports unwelcome, and now we're at a point where people just want to throw out groups as a whole.

Yes, Core of Flame deserved that nerf. Corrosive should also get one. And Conservation of Energy needs something done - I'd say they should probably take a leaf out of Templar's book and convert Conservation of Energy to "Upgrades rank 2 of Blood Magic to work with all Sorcerer abilities with a cost," which will mean it doesn't affect Werewolves or non-sorc skills anymore, but will still be as strong for people who are playing the whole Sorc fantasy. I'd also give Werewolves the "cost with max resource" treatment, but then the costs should be in line with Class abilities.

What I am happy about though is that DK didn't get a blanket sledgehammer nerf in PTS3. The Core of Flame nerf probably should have been stronger and may still need to get a few percent knocked off, but it is nice to see scalpel nerfs instead of sledgehammers.

Disagreed, 30% damage done on arcanist is barely enough to make pure class arcanist useable in content meanwhile it would be bonkers in pvp.

Some stuff should be balanced seperately. I also think corrosive is fine as is, its not that much better compared to old corro, weaker actually in some aspects since it cant buff dots and it makes you take double the damage compared to before. Also what is considered too strong depends on context, sustain is very essential in pvp for example but in pve, its w/e.

That being said, Core of Flame 100% needs further adjustments, its currently still way too strong in pts and lets players break the game with effortless perma blocking.

madmufffin wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Let's stop pretending "oh, just use Battle Spirit so it can stay OP in PvE!" is a solution.

Some things are broken in PvE as well. If something is making it so you have high damage and high sustain and high survivability and everything else, that means it's also inappropriate in PvE.
"but but but I need to crutch on this for soloing!"
No, you don't. Most of the people on this train are also talking about how they're specifically trying to make their life harder - "I'm soloing group content because ew people" or "I'm playing on Vestige because ESO is babymode!" - and then they crutch on broken abilities to make those self-imposed challenges not challenging. Uhh...

Everything that's extremely strong is because of infinite sustain, allowing people to dispense with the things they should be doing instead. ESO has already made healers and supports unwelcome, and now we're at a point where people just want to throw out groups as a whole.

Yes, Core of Flame deserved that nerf. Corrosive should also get one. And Conservation of Energy needs something done - I'd say they should probably take a leaf out of Templar's book and convert Conservation of Energy to "Upgrades rank 2 of Blood Magic to work with all Sorcerer abilities with a cost," which will mean it doesn't affect Werewolves or non-sorc skills anymore, but will still be as strong for people who are playing the whole Sorc fantasy. I'd also give Werewolves the "cost with max resource" treatment, but then the costs should be in line with Class abilities.

What I am happy about though is that DK didn't get a blanket sledgehammer nerf in PTS3. The Core of Flame nerf probably should have been stronger and may still need to get a few percent knocked off, but it is nice to see scalpel nerfs instead of sledgehammers.

Disagreed, 30% damage done on arcanist is barely enough to make pure class arcanist useable in content meanwhile it would be bonkers in pvp.

Some stuff should be balanced seperately. I also think corrosive is fine as is, its not that much better compared to old corro, weaker actually in some aspects since it cant buff dots and it makes you take double the damage compared to before. Also what is considered too strong depends on context, sustain is very essential in pvp for example but in pve, its w/e.

That being said, Core of Flame 100% needs further adjustments, its currently still way too strong in pts and lets players break the game with effortless perma blocking.

I personally don't find either corrosive or onslaught(once it's no longer bugged) that problematic due to their telegraphed nature.
If you see either you play defensive, try to create distance etc.

Jokes on you. I'm blind and refuse to use the addon lol