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Let Templar Double Dip Balanced Warrior
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ceruulean✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I'ma be honest, that passive is cooked. If you need 2 conditions to limit its power then just scrap it. What kind of newbie wants to read how that formula works anyway? I don't have a math degree and I don't want to do math in my free time lol. Not because I can't, but it's pretty noticable that only templar gets complicated conditions and every other class just gets flat buffs. Unfair treatment here.
Templar toolkit is lacking and it restricts the freedom to use skills from other lines. Which goes against the games philosophy of "play and build as you want." Templar will be the only class that has 1 passive and 1 mastery that is contingent on templar-only and slotting templar skills. Don't forget templars have 1 passive that doesn't help damage or sustain but makes rez speed faster.
Edited by ceruulean on 17 August 2026 16:010 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Yeah and you get more from slotting fighters guild ability than slotting templar ability on a templar
Assuming you have at least 2500 wd/sd yeah... Idk what I was hoping for, but this ain't it. A flat 2% per skill like Sorc + the armor portion would've been better than this.0 -
karios525✭✭✭Balanced warrior has become utterly useless as a buff even when maxed with templar skills, should be 2% total resistances plus per skill slotted, guessing best to drop my favourite class, yet again templar gets nerfed.Edited by karios525 on 17 August 2026 16:041
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madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I'ma be honest, that passive is cooked. If you need 2 conditions to limit its power then just scrap it. What kind of newbie wants to read how that formula works anyway? I don't have a math degree and I don't want to do math in my free time lol. Not because I can't, but it's pretty noticable that only templar gets complicated conditions and every other class just gets flat buffs. Unfair treatment here.
Templar toolkit is lacking and it restricts the freedom to use skills from other lines. Which goes against the games philosophy of "play and build as you want." Templar will be the only class that has 1 passive and 1 mastery that is contingent on templar-only and slotting templar skills. Don't forget templars have 1 passive that doesn't help damage or sustain but makes rez speed faster.
With 70k total resistances, you get 280 wd/sd. Running SIX templar skills FB pushes that up to 730 total from the passive. So if you build your entire character around this passive, you get Clever Alchemist XD With minor sorcery and old balanced warrior, a very normal 4500 wd/sd build gave you 720 without having to do all this nonsense to build for the passive...1 -
ceruulean✭✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »Yeah I'ma be honest, that passive is cooked. If you need 2 conditions to limit its power then just scrap it. What kind of newbie wants to read how that formula works anyway? I don't have a math degree and I don't want to do math in my free time lol. Not because I can't, but it's pretty noticable that only templar gets complicated conditions and every other class just gets flat buffs. Unfair treatment here.
Templar toolkit is lacking and it restricts the freedom to use skills from other lines. Which goes against the games philosophy of "play and build as you want." Templar will be the only class that has 1 passive and 1 mastery that is contingent on templar-only and slotting templar skills. Don't forget templars have 1 passive that doesn't help damage or sustain but makes rez speed faster.
With 70k total resistances, you get 280 wd/sd. Running SIX templar skills FB pushes that up to 730 total from the passive. So if you build your entire character around this passive, you get Clever Alchemist XD With minor sorcery and old balanced warrior, a very normal 4500 wd/sd build gave you 720 without having to do all this nonsense to build for the passive...
Yeah this is getting ridiculous. I'm tired of non-templar players saying this is a good change because it fulfills the heavy knight fantasy. Like, Hollywood Millennial fantasy of being the hero who takes a bullet and survives? Devs at ZOS, it's 2026 and we don't care about that anymore. Realistically speaking, all these design decisions just make templar a sitting duck and an easy to kill, forgotten martyr. And heavy armor knight is not the only archetype of the class. What about spell casters or healers or agile spearman?
Edited by ceruulean on 17 August 2026 16:232 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »Yeah I'ma be honest, that passive is cooked. If you need 2 conditions to limit its power then just scrap it. What kind of newbie wants to read how that formula works anyway? I don't have a math degree and I don't want to do math in my free time lol. Not because I can't, but it's pretty noticable that only templar gets complicated conditions and every other class just gets flat buffs. Unfair treatment here.
Templar toolkit is lacking and it restricts the freedom to use skills from other lines. Which goes against the games philosophy of "play and build as you want." Templar will be the only class that has 1 passive and 1 mastery that is contingent on templar-only and slotting templar skills. Don't forget templars have 1 passive that doesn't help damage or sustain but makes rez speed faster.
With 70k total resistances, you get 280 wd/sd. Running SIX templar skills FB pushes that up to 730 total from the passive. So if you build your entire character around this passive, you get Clever Alchemist XD With minor sorcery and old balanced warrior, a very normal 4500 wd/sd build gave you 720 without having to do all this nonsense to build for the passive...
Yeah this is getting ridiculous. I'm tired of non-templar players saying this is a good change because it fulfills the heavy knight fantasy. Like, Hollywood Millennial fantasy of being the hero who shrugs a bullet and survives? Realistically speaking, all these design decisions just make templar a sitting duck and an easy to kill, forgotten martyr. And heavy armor knight is not the only archetype of the class. What about spell casters or healers or agile spearman?
Add in the fact that the only usable class spammable is melee, the class has horrific sustain, there's no mobility whatsoever, and has probably the most underwhelming class shield in the game. God forbid they get given a little bit of a juiced damage passive to supplement some of the pain points.1 -
Militan1404✭✭✭✭Wonder if zos in their mind think somehow that this is a buff for templar and not a big nerf?? Just makes me wonder what they are gonna try to do next week to kill templar even further1 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This passive definitely seems over-cooked and made far too complicated for what it needed to fix it.
It was so simple to fix too (again, ZOS if you're reading, less is more, stop over-complicating everything), keeping the old 6% then adding the new increase to damage based on armor on top would have been enough to suffice.
This change really just looks like busy work for the sake of looking busy rather than actually making a proper change.1 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »This passive definitely seems over-cooked and made far too complicated for what it needed to fix it.
It was so simple to fix too (again, ZOS if you're reading, less is more, stop over-complicating everything), keeping the old 6% then adding the new increase to damage based on armor on top would have been enough to suffice.
This change really just looks like busy work for the sake of looking busy rather than actually making a proper change.
I had to re-read the passive like 5 times to be able to math out basic levels of output. This game should not be at this point for a class passive... For a normal 4500 wd/sd medium armor Templar, you're gonna have 270 wd/sd from old Balanced Warrior. Add in 1% of resistance sum from roughly 26.5k of each res with the new class passive armor buff giving you 530 wd/sd. 800 wd/sd isn't breaking either game mode and you don't need Adderall and having passed calculus to figure out what the passive does.1 -
ceruulean✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom How will devs address the loss of templar build diversity in 2026, and templar being shoehorned into a narrow archetype of "heavy armor crusader?"
Remember when templars could play ranged builds like bow or ele weapon?
Bow build last year:
https://youtu.be/gi9aZa-mIGA?si=g1cZFeUV5bekc6lW
Staff staff build:
https://youtu.be/RnT6GT_J2qo?si=8NL_JyH8flLXFnju
Even in 2021 plars were pigeonholed into jabs and templar skills but at least it wasn't as big of a disparity to run suboptimal as it is now.Edited by ceruulean on 17 August 2026 16:490 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »This passive definitely seems over-cooked and made far too complicated for what it needed to fix it.
It was so simple to fix too (again, ZOS if you're reading, less is more, stop over-complicating everything), keeping the old 6% then adding the new increase to damage based on armor on top would have been enough to suffice.
This change really just looks like busy work for the sake of looking busy rather than actually making a proper change.
I had to re-read the passive like 5 times to be able to math out basic levels of output. This game should not be at this point for a class passive... For a normal 4500 wd/sd medium armor Templar, you're gonna have 270 wd/sd from old Balanced Warrior. Add in 1% of resistance sum from roughly 26.5k of each res with the new class passive armor buff giving you 530 wd/sd. 800 wd/sd isn't breaking either game mode and you don't need Adderall and having passed calculus to figure out what the passive does.
Yep, my background is in engineering, and it still took me a good sec to extrapolate the formula.
Definitely completely over-complicated for what it is trying to do (essentially give X weapon damage based on Y armor value + Z weapon damage per class ability slotted).0 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom How will devs address the loss of templar build diversity in 2026, and templar being shoehorned into a narrow archetype of "heavy armor crusader?"
Remember when templars could play ranged builds like bow or ele weapon?
Bow build last year:https://youtu.be/gi9aZa-mIGA?si=g1cZFeUV5bekc6lW
Staff staff build:https://youtu.be/RnT6GT_J2qo?si=8NL_JyH8flLXFnju
Even in 2021 plars were pigeonholed into jabs and templar skills but at least it wasn't as big of a disparity to run suboptimal as it is now.
Silver shards is better than any Templar skill with how terrible the passive scaling is, so you still can do so2 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is a defensive buff for most builds and barely an offensive buff for some other. Not impressed. Really was hoping for a % modifier per plar skill, not to armor, but to spell damage.0 -
ceruulean✭✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom How will devs address the loss of templar build diversity in 2026, and templar being shoehorned into a narrow archetype of "heavy armor crusader?"
Remember when templars could play ranged builds like bow or ele weapon?
Bow build last year:https://youtu.be/gi9aZa-mIGA?si=g1cZFeUV5bekc6lW
Staff staff build:https://youtu.be/RnT6GT_J2qo?si=8NL_JyH8flLXFnju
Even in 2021 plars were pigeonholed into jabs and templar skills but at least it wasn't as big of a disparity to run suboptimal as it is now.
Silver shards is better than any Templar skill with how terrible the passive scaling is, so you still can do so
Judgment's Brand
Skill description
When rank 2 of Burning Light deals damage, your Templar abilities gain 1600 damage done for 3.1 seconds.
Yeah let me just use non-templar skills and do less damage no matter how or what I build. This passive is so bad that nobody uses it in PvP.1 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭I definitely overlooked the more armor per Templar skill aspect when mathing this out, but still doesn't change the underwhelming nature of the passive given the loss of minor sorcery and how absurd damage passives are for other classes.1
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Militan1404✭✭✭✭What do they think that extra armor would even do?? We are in a corrosive and onslaught meta.2
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ceruulean✭✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »What do they think that extra armor would even do?? We are in a corrosive and onslaught meta.
Extra armor to be a paladin who can take every blow to the face without dying. Stand still and become food to feed the DK egos. Design more tank passives even though the majority of players are DPS and not tanks. Stick to the Disney Hollywood romantic fantasy of knights in heavy armor protecting their teammates. Even though sorc/DK/arcanist have better skills for shielding their allies than templar.
Edited by ceruulean on 17 August 2026 17:111 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »What do they think that extra armor would even do?? We are in a corrosive and onslaught meta.
Extra armor to be a paladin who can take every blow to the face without dying. Stand still and become food to feed the DK egos. Design more tank passives even though the majority of players are DPS and not tanks. Stick to the Disney Hollywood romantic fantasy of knights in heavy armor protecting their teammates. Even though sorc/DK/arcanist have better skills for shielding their allies than templar.
Templars in ESO are just the worst aspects of Priests and Paladins in other games merged together. Quite depressing tbh.2 -
ElderSmitter✭✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Based on my math this provides Templar with much more Weapon and Spell damage if you build your Plar correctly.1 -
VinnyGambini✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Yeah and you get more from slotting fighters guild ability than slotting templar ability on a templar
Does anybody know if this is for skills slotted on both bars, or only on active bar?0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Based on my math this provides Templar with much more Weapon and Spell damage if you build your Plar correctly.
Depends of what you compare it to. For solo this is a tiny spell damage buff if you have 4 or more templar skills on 1 bar and decent ish armor.
The armor scaling part is really not significant enough to make a big difference.0 -
ElderSmitter✭✭✭✭✭VinnyGambini wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Yeah and you get more from slotting fighters guild ability than slotting templar ability on a templar
Does anybody know if this is for skills slotted on both bars, or only on active bar?
It is a passive it would apply to all unless specifically stated otherwise so i will go on the assumption all.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VinnyGambini wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Yeah and you get more from slotting fighters guild ability than slotting templar ability on a templar
Does anybody know if this is for skills slotted on both bars, or only on active bar?
Only active bar.1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Based on my math this provides Templar with much more Weapon and Spell damage if you build your Plar correctly.
You have to keep in mind that this was an attempt to make up for Prism’s old damage values… this passive is now the value of Prism when it needs to be both that and Balanced Warrior.Founder of New Age Crusade, the #1 Battlegrounds guild on Xbox NA0 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭ElderSmitter wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Based on my math this provides Templar with much more Weapon and Spell damage if you build your Plar correctly.
You need to put in a bunch of work to make it better than old balanced warrior + minor sorcery. That still doesn't address the fact that Templar is booty right now and needs a noteworthy buff and not a tiny bump.1 -
VinnyGambini✭✭✭✭VinnyGambini wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Yeah and you get more from slotting fighters guild ability than slotting templar ability on a templar
Does anybody know if this is for skills slotted on both bars, or only on active bar?
Only active bar.
If it's only active bar, so realistically 4 skills, then we have 4*75 = 300 + the armor part so realistically 40 000 *0,4% = 160, so 460 in total.
Before it was 6%, and of course minor sorcery so 16% in total. 460 is much less than 16%. This is STILL a huge nerf.
Even if we go MAX 6 skills, it will still result in +- 620 spell dmg, still lower than 16%.
@ZOS_Kevin dissapointed again.1 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭VinnyGambini wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Yeah and you get more from slotting fighters guild ability than slotting templar ability on a templar
Does anybody know if this is for skills slotted on both bars, or only on active bar?
Only active bar.
If it's only active bar, so realistically 4 skills, then we have 4*75 = 300 + the armor part so realistically 40 000 *0,4% = 160, so 460 in total.
Before it was 6%, and of course minor sorcery so 16% in total. 460 is much less than 16%. This is STILL a huge nerf.
Even if we go MAX 6 skills, it will still result in +- 620 spell dmg, still lower than 16%.
@ZOS_Kevin dissapointed again.
50k combined resistances is pretty easy to hit in medium armor, so it is TECHNICALLY a buff, but man you really have to put in a concerted effort to make it work out that way.0 -
VinnyGambini✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Spent all weekend very excited after the midweek update just to get this need a math degree nonsense... With 25k of each resistance and 6 templar skills front barred this is only 650 damage. You got that from minor sorcery alone in PVE content.
Yeah and you get more from slotting fighters guild ability than slotting templar ability on a templar
Does anybody know if this is for skills slotted on both bars, or only on active bar?
Only active bar.
If it's only active bar, so realistically 4 skills, then we have 4*75 = 300 + the armor part so realistically 40 000 *0,4% = 160, so 460 in total.
Before it was 6%, and of course minor sorcery so 16% in total. 460 is much less than 16%. This is STILL a huge nerf.
Even if we go MAX 6 skills, it will still result in +- 620 spell dmg, still lower than 16%.
@ZOS_Kevin dissapointed again.
50k combined resistances is pretty easy to hit in medium armor, so it is TECHNICALLY a buff, but man you really have to put in a concerted effort to make it work out that way.
With major + minor breach it is not. On PvP scenario it's definetely a nerf. On PvE, 6 templar abilities stotted, it may be on par. Such a dissapointment.1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Designing skills and passives to scale better with Class Skills equipped, while they are better than world and weapon skills normally, is bad design.
At the end of these reworks, we’re going to be stuck looking like carbon copies of each other, using exclusively Class Skills.
Not bothering to Subclass or use any skills outside of our vanilla class.Edited by Radiate77 on 17 August 2026 17:55Founder of New Age Crusade, the #1 Battlegrounds guild on Xbox NA2 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Balanced warrior:
My suggestion for this passive is this: Increases your armor by 2% and your weapon and spell damage by 3% and 2% per templar ability slotted.
This solves 2 things: it simplifies the passive and unlinks armor for damage.
In pve with the current pts iteration slotting fighters guild passives is still a net gain over templar abilities, assuming around 20k armor which is very obtainable even for dps players.
This would break even for spell damage at 3 templar skills over 3 fighters guild abilities, so you would have more freedom.
For pvp you can enjoy some extra armor and weapon damage and you won't feel forced to build into excessive amounts of armor for a tiny damage increase.0