Nothing Wasted now decays less aggressively (loses 2 stacks instead of 3) but decays every 12 seconds of not generating a corpse, rather than 15 seconds. This is mostly a cadence tweak to help reduce how punishing it feels in some encounters.

@ZOS_Kevin Is the bolded part a typo or an intentional change from its functionality on live? Currently it decays when you fail to consume a corpse, not generate. If that's actually being changed, that's a fantastic change for non-Corpseburster builds.

I mean thanks for trying to listen, but you guys are being VERY reactive rather than proactive and thinking ahead. These nerfs should have been for PVP areas ONLY and they should be temporary nerfs until the other classes are reworked. If you are not going to bring up the other classes quickly, these need to be temporary or you will constantly have to be adjusting things to the other classes that are getting released. Come on, think things through! I am someone that doesn't like that Cyrodiil is just about who has the most ball groups or DKs at the moment, but there is no forethought in this decision. The 2nd best solution would have been to write (in PVP areas) for the skills that are getting nerfed, and mention that this is temporary until other classes are brought up. The best solution is to just release all the class reworks together not spread them across over 3 or 4 years to actually then truly balance out the classes when we know where everything is at.

PLEASE stop your cycle of breaking something, introducing "fixes" that then make what you previously did make no sense. Sub class with no plan about pure classes. We get pure class masteries as a fix making sub class pretty irrelevant with SOME exceptions in PVP but PVE pretty useless unless you're going for some kind of theme build. Class reworks > but only one at a time making the reworked classes with class masteries highly outperform older classes. Now gutting that class in PVP and PVE instead of bringing up the other classes or just making it temporary. The next thing as I mentioned, will be when all the classes are finally out every class is going to be all over the place in terms of balance because of the nerfs along the way...

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Templar Changes:

If Templar Balanced Warrior requires me to have major and minor resolve its DOA for me (I just PVE). I can never depend on a healer to have good uptime even on major resolve, and minor resolve not even being sourcable in the class is a non-starter. Even the best healer is not going to keep up combat prayer on you, especially if the team is moving around, spread out for mechs, or you are apart for other reaosns (e.g. portal). I hope you don't expect me to use Rune Focus just for a DPS buff - the Templar is already slot hungry - or extend it to at least 30 seconds.

The buff might be able to come just from slotting a certain number of Templar skills (e.g. 170 per skill slotted with a max of 500), or 170 per Templar skill line (even better). The way it is now (if I understand it correctly) its just unusable and my Templar will remain a mule character. Please just make it simple.

The change to Aetheric Lancer is great, but I would prefer more damage buff to the base class instead so I have more set options.

I am not sure how much the buff to Judgement's Brand will be, but if it's 2% damage and Balanced Warrior is usable at 500 WD then I would expect about 5% overall damage increase which would be pretty good.

You typically are being given major and minor resolve in group content by supports. If you play solo, then I would assume you're running at a minimum rune.

Love the upcoming Templar Changes THANK YOU ZOS!! Super excited and love the incorporation into the strengths of the Templar.

Great, so Sorcerer gets to escape another round of updates unscathed?

Anyone who has looked at the Battlegrounds addon statistics can see that Sorcerer should be nerfed. The fundamental difference between Sorcerer and other classes is that if a Sorcerer doesn’t want to fight you, they can simply use three consecutive Streaks and get away. Seriously, aside from another Sorcerer, what class can actually force a Sorcerer to fight?

On the other hand, if a Sorcerer wants to force a Templar, Dragonknight, or basically any other “short-legged” class to fight, it’s incredibly easy. The Battlegrounds statistics addon shows that Sorcerer has the highest total damage. I’m sure ZOS has much more comprehensive data than an addon—so when rebalancing the classes, are they not even looking at that data?

To the people on the forums who oppose nerfing Sorcerer: please try playing PvP on another class, such as Arcanist. Then you might understand that sorcs——the meta class you’re already playing in PvP, if you play Sorcerer this badly, you’ll only be even worse on other classes.


Also, as far as I know, Arcanist currently has very few viable PvP builds outside of burst/one-shot setups. If there are actually some normal, sustained-DPS PvP builds for Arcanist, please tell me about them—I’d genuinely love to learn.

Does ZOS not plan to make any adjustments to Arcanist as well?

And what exactly is going on with the Templar changes? Standing still and doing damage in PvP? Even in the current patch, Aether is merely a usable set; it’s hardly dominant. If Aether Javelin only generates while you’re standing still, does that basically mean Templar is being forced to fight reactively?

And without nerfing Sorcerer, you’re giving Templar a “stand-still-and-deal-damage” playstyle in PvP? Is the idea to let Templar stand there and get shredded?

Have the people responsible for class balance actually played PvP?

Can the people making the game actually play the game before making changes based on assumptions?

Ishtarknows wrote: »

PvE tanks take a hit to healing and sustain again. Thanks for balancing PvP gripes at the expense of PvE again.

I haven't been doing a lot of endgame trial prog for a while so I'd love to hear from someone who does. Why do tanks need so much self healing in pve?
Back in my day we often had a dedicated healer just for the tank and ot.

I would like the damage over time of Draugrkin's Grip to be doubled in PvP.

Ketarmish29 wrote: »

You still want the Templar to play standing still?... PvP Is not a gameplay to stand still!

Agreed, but from a PvE standpoint. None of the newer trials or dungeons have fights where you stand still. Not even the tanks. Look at the final boss fight in Ossein Cage, we're running every second of the fight!

Armor sets that reward standing still are useful in ... Sunspire? Hel Ra final boss?

This standing still mech needs to be rethought (read: removed).

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how CoF works. Doesn't it only do two ticks of the resource restore? How does it compare to siphoning's restore, minus the obvious health cost the nightblade one has.

Insta-tick (let's say 'Heart of Flame'):

15% missing mag, stam, health instantly

another 15% tick at 2 seconds

another 15% tick and burst damage at 4 seconds

Faltasë wrote: »

CoolAsh wrote: »

Great, so Sorcerer gets to escape another round of updates unscathed?


Anyone who has looked at the Battlegrounds addon statistics can see that Sorcerer should be nerfed. The fundamental difference between Sorcerer and other classes is that if a Sorcerer doesn’t want to fight you, they can simply use three consecutive Streaks and get away. Seriously, aside from another Sorcerer, what class can actually force a Sorcerer to fight?

On the other hand, if a Sorcerer wants to force a Templar, Dragonknight, or basically any other “short-legged” class to fight, it’s incredibly easy. The Battlegrounds statistics addon shows that Sorcerer has the highest total damage. I’m sure ZOS has much more comprehensive data than an addon—so when rebalancing the classes, are they not even looking at that data?

To the people on the forums who oppose nerfing Sorcerer: please try playing PvP on another class, such as Arcanist. Then you might understand that sorcs——the meta class you’re already playing in PvP, if you play Sorcerer this badly, you’ll only be even worse on other classes.


Also, as far as I know, Arcanist currently has very few viable PvP builds outside of burst/one-shot setups. If there are actually some normal, sustained-DPS PvP builds for Arcanist, please tell me about them—I’d genuinely love to learn.

Does ZOS not plan to make any adjustments to Arcanist as well?

And what exactly is going on with the Templar changes? Standing still and doing damage in PvP? Even in the current patch, Aether is merely a usable set; it’s hardly dominant. If Aether Javelin only generates while you’re standing still, does that basically mean Templar is being forced to fight reactively?

And without nerfing Sorcerer, you’re giving Templar a “stand-still-and-deal-damage” playstyle in PvP? Is the idea to let Templar stand there and get shredded?

Have the people responsible for class balance actually played PvP?

Can the people making the game actually play the game before making changes based on assumptions?

"Sorcerers deserve to be nerfed" Meanwhile, the entire enemy team spam locking and deleting people while using WW and DK:

A sorc cannot fight this. While sure, sorcs are great, they cannot stack up to this. Not even a fraction.

My solution though is that these combat changes in this PTS cycle are not enough to bridge the gap. Don't nerf WW and DK, just bridge the gap so that they don't have uncounterable power.

Like yeah, I'm sure Arcanists and Templars are having a grand time trying to counter these folks /s

That’s honestly hilarious. Your situation would have been exactly the same even if you were playing Dragonknight or Werewolf. Do you seriously expect a single Sorcerer to be able to carry a fight against eight players on their own?

You were literally the person on your team who died the least. The real problem here is that you were matched against a team that was much stronger than yours. That’s a matchmaking/ranking problem with ESO, not evidence that Sorcerer is incapable of dealing with them.

You haven’t actually addressed my point at all.

Instead, why not push ESO to introduce some proper Battlegrounds, with stronger rewards for actually completing objectives? That would encourage players to focus on playing the Battleground mechanics instead of obsessing over their kill/death ratio.

CoolAsh wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

CoolAsh wrote: »

Great, so Sorcerer gets to escape another round of updates unscathed?


Anyone who has looked at the Battlegrounds addon statistics can see that Sorcerer should be nerfed. The fundamental difference between Sorcerer and other classes is that if a Sorcerer doesn’t want to fight you, they can simply use three consecutive Streaks and get away. Seriously, aside from another Sorcerer, what class can actually force a Sorcerer to fight?

On the other hand, if a Sorcerer wants to force a Templar, Dragonknight, or basically any other “short-legged” class to fight, it’s incredibly easy. The Battlegrounds statistics addon shows that Sorcerer has the highest total damage. I’m sure ZOS has much more comprehensive data than an addon—so when rebalancing the classes, are they not even looking at that data?

To the people on the forums who oppose nerfing Sorcerer: please try playing PvP on another class, such as Arcanist. Then you might understand that sorcs——the meta class you’re already playing in PvP, if you play Sorcerer this badly, you’ll only be even worse on other classes.


Also, as far as I know, Arcanist currently has very few viable PvP builds outside of burst/one-shot setups. If there are actually some normal, sustained-DPS PvP builds for Arcanist, please tell me about them—I’d genuinely love to learn.

Does ZOS not plan to make any adjustments to Arcanist as well?

And what exactly is going on with the Templar changes? Standing still and doing damage in PvP? Even in the current patch, Aether is merely a usable set; it’s hardly dominant. If Aether Javelin only generates while you’re standing still, does that basically mean Templar is being forced to fight reactively?

And without nerfing Sorcerer, you’re giving Templar a “stand-still-and-deal-damage” playstyle in PvP? Is the idea to let Templar stand there and get shredded?

Have the people responsible for class balance actually played PvP?

Can the people making the game actually play the game before making changes based on assumptions?

"Sorcerers deserve to be nerfed" Meanwhile, the entire enemy team spam locking and deleting people while using WW and DK:

A sorc cannot fight this. While sure, sorcs are great, they cannot stack up to this. Not even a fraction.

My solution though is that these combat changes in this PTS cycle are not enough to bridge the gap. Don't nerf WW and DK, just bridge the gap so that they don't have uncounterable power.

Like yeah, I'm sure Arcanists and Templars are having a grand time trying to counter these folks /s

That’s honestly hilarious. Your situation would have been exactly the same even if you were playing Dragonknight or Werewolf. Do you seriously expect a single Sorcerer to be able to carry a fight against eight players on their own?

You were literally the person on your team who died the least. The real problem here is that you were matched against a team that was much stronger than yours. That’s a matchmaking/ranking problem with ESO, not evidence that Sorcerer is incapable of dealing with them.

You haven’t actually addressed my point at all.

Instead, why not push ESO to introduce some proper Battlegrounds, with stronger rewards for actually completing objectives? That would encourage players to focus on playing the Battleground mechanics instead of obsessing over their kill/death ratio.

No you're misinterpreting my point. I'm saying that Sorc is the only one able to stand up to a DK or WW and that means that they are the only non refreshed class that can stand up to DK and WW, if you nerf them, NO ONE CAN STAND UP TO WEREWOLVES AND DKs.

No matter whether or not my team was good or bad, the determining factor on who wins a match is how many DKs and WWs are on the other team. Versus how little are on yours.

Instead of using that philosophy, we should buff the other classes other than Sorc, to the point where they can be formidable against DKs and WWs. WWs should not be grinding inside of BGs with virtually zero counters besides poison, and DKs just supplement those teams with more oppression.

Anyways if there were other counters to DKs and WWs and all of us were on equal playing fields, I would agree with your point, but that's just not reality.

And while I agree with you that matchmaking has a problem, and I agree with your BG solution, good players gravitate towards good setups, this includes META, because that's how skill based upward growth is in every competitive game ever.

The good players are not using the bad classes or using bad gear, because they want to continue utilizing their experience on classes and setups that do not punish them for their use.

And to clarify, I'm not saying your point is an invalid one, I'm just saying that it makes no sense on why we should make only the top two folks stay top two instead of letting a third or fourth class stay higher, so that there is actually another counter to classes with zero counters. Once ZOS figures out other classes like Arcanist and Templar should be buffed a certain way, then we can talk about tempering conservation of energy to a more moderate state.

CoolAsh wrote: »

.

Faltasë wrote: »

CoolAsh wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

CoolAsh wrote: »

Great, so Sorcerer gets to escape another round of updates unscathed?


Anyone who has looked at the Battlegrounds addon statistics can see that Sorcerer should be nerfed. The fundamental difference between Sorcerer and other classes is that if a Sorcerer doesn’t want to fight you, they can simply use three consecutive Streaks and get away. Seriously, aside from another Sorcerer, what class can actually force a Sorcerer to fight?

On the other hand, if a Sorcerer wants to force a Templar, Dragonknight, or basically any other “short-legged” class to fight, it’s incredibly easy. The Battlegrounds statistics addon shows that Sorcerer has the highest total damage. I’m sure ZOS has much more comprehensive data than an addon—so when rebalancing the classes, are they not even looking at that data?

To the people on the forums who oppose nerfing Sorcerer: please try playing PvP on another class, such as Arcanist. Then you might understand that sorcs——the meta class you’re already playing in PvP, if you play Sorcerer this badly, you’ll only be even worse on other classes.


Also, as far as I know, Arcanist currently has very few viable PvP builds outside of burst/one-shot setups. If there are actually some normal, sustained-DPS PvP builds for Arcanist, please tell me about them—I’d genuinely love to learn.

Does ZOS not plan to make any adjustments to Arcanist as well?

And what exactly is going on with the Templar changes? Standing still and doing damage in PvP? Even in the current patch, Aether is merely a usable set; it’s hardly dominant. If Aether Javelin only generates while you’re standing still, does that basically mean Templar is being forced to fight reactively?

And without nerfing Sorcerer, you’re giving Templar a “stand-still-and-deal-damage” playstyle in PvP? Is the idea to let Templar stand there and get shredded?

Have the people responsible for class balance actually played PvP?

Can the people making the game actually play the game before making changes based on assumptions?

"Sorcerers deserve to be nerfed" Meanwhile, the entire enemy team spam locking and deleting people while using WW and DK:

A sorc cannot fight this. While sure, sorcs are great, they cannot stack up to this. Not even a fraction.

My solution though is that these combat changes in this PTS cycle are not enough to bridge the gap. Don't nerf WW and DK, just bridge the gap so that they don't have uncounterable power.

Like yeah, I'm sure Arcanists and Templars are having a grand time trying to counter these folks /s

That’s honestly hilarious. Your situation would have been exactly the same even if you were playing Dragonknight or Werewolf. Do you seriously expect a single Sorcerer to be able to carry a fight against eight players on their own?

You were literally the person on your team who died the least. The real problem here is that you were matched against a team that was much stronger than yours. That’s a matchmaking/ranking problem with ESO, not evidence that Sorcerer is incapable of dealing with them.

You haven’t actually addressed my point at all.

Instead, why not push ESO to introduce some proper Battlegrounds, with stronger rewards for actually completing objectives? That would encourage players to focus on playing the Battleground mechanics instead of obsessing over their kill/death ratio.

No you're misinterpreting my point. I'm saying that Sorc is the only one able to stand up to a DK or WW and that means that they are the only non refreshed class that can stand up to DK and WW, if you nerf them, NO ONE CAN STAND UP TO WEREWOLVES AND DKs.

No matter whether or not my team was good or bad, the determining factor on who wins a match is how many DKs and WWs are on the other team. Versus how little are on yours.

Instead of using that philosophy, we should buff the other classes other than Sorc, to the point where they can be formidable against DKs and WWs. WWs should not be grinding inside of BGs with virtually zero counters besides poison, and DKs just supplement those teams with more oppression.

Anyways if there were other counters to DKs and WWs and all of us were on equal playing fields, I would agree with your point, but that's just not reality.

And while I agree with you that matchmaking has a problem, and I agree with your BG solution, good players gravitate towards good setups, this includes META, because that's how skill based upward growth is in every competitive game ever.

The good players are not using the bad classes or using bad gear, because they want to continue utilizing their experience on classes and setups that do not punish them for their use.

And to clarify, I'm not saying your point is an invalid one, I'm just saying that it makes no sense on why we should make only the top two folks stay top two instead of letting a third or fourth class stay higher, so that there is actually another counter to classes with zero counters. Once ZOS figures out other classes like Arcanist and Templar should be buffed a certain way, then we can talk about tempering conservation of energy to a more moderate state.

Achieving class balance is inherently difficult. Even in a game like World of Warcraft, class imbalances have persisted for years. But we still need to try to achieve it. It's completely normal for every class to have its strong periods, but if a class remains overpowered indefinitely, doesn't that mean it's time for some nerfs?

On the other hand, if you just buff the weaker classes, you run into the issue of power creep, which also makes the PvP pace much faster. Remember when the Nightmarket ring first came out? The battlegrounds literally felt like a shooter game.

Besides, skilled players should be able to adapt and play different classes, learning the unique characteristics of each. Nerfing the overpowered classes while buffing the underperforming ones is simply what balancing should be.

Based on the adjustments they've announced, Dragonknights will be getting nerfed. By that logic, Sorcerers, who are equally strong, should be nerfed as well. Whether ZOS chooses to bridge the gap by buffing or nerfing, the ultimate goal should be to ensure that every class remains viable and fun to play.

However, it's obvious that the current PvP imbalance is also negatively affecting the PvE experience. If balancing is so difficult for ZOS, why not just separate PvE and PvP into two completely independent build systems?

Fair points tbh. This changed my opinion.

I guess it's more just that PvP in general does not feel fun, or particularly engaging or even particularly rewarding right now(even while I play a sorc), and won't for the next 6 or however many months until warden gets it's refresh and starts being able to compete. PvP feels awful and will continue to feel awful(mostly because I refuse to swap classes on the way to grand warlord, mostly because I want mine to get there for a specific reason), and I'm not really sure going back to the same cycle as before of buffs and nerfs will even fix this "tailspin" as another user called it earlier.

I also wouldn't really like it if everyone became a superhero like the DK over other classes, because wars of attrition where everyone battles on forever isn't fun either.

They should be more hardcore in their battle spirit specific nerfs and honestly stop the PvE ***.

But even though I say that, Cyrodiil feels about 4 times better than BGs do right now. So something is BG specific that makes the game mode suck, and those balance issues far more apparent. It's much less punishing and exhausting In Cyrodiil. And I am excluding vengeance, because no one likes vengeance.

Faltasë wrote: »

CoolAsh wrote: »

.

Faltasë wrote: »

CoolAsh wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

CoolAsh wrote: »

Great, so Sorcerer gets to escape another round of updates unscathed?


Anyone who has looked at the Battlegrounds addon statistics can see that Sorcerer should be nerfed. The fundamental difference between Sorcerer and other classes is that if a Sorcerer doesn’t want to fight you, they can simply use three consecutive Streaks and get away. Seriously, aside from another Sorcerer, what class can actually force a Sorcerer to fight?

On the other hand, if a Sorcerer wants to force a Templar, Dragonknight, or basically any other “short-legged” class to fight, it’s incredibly easy. The Battlegrounds statistics addon shows that Sorcerer has the highest total damage. I’m sure ZOS has much more comprehensive data than an addon—so when rebalancing the classes, are they not even looking at that data?

To the people on the forums who oppose nerfing Sorcerer: please try playing PvP on another class, such as Arcanist. Then you might understand that sorcs——the meta class you’re already playing in PvP, if you play Sorcerer this badly, you’ll only be even worse on other classes.


Also, as far as I know, Arcanist currently has very few viable PvP builds outside of burst/one-shot setups. If there are actually some normal, sustained-DPS PvP builds for Arcanist, please tell me about them—I’d genuinely love to learn.

Does ZOS not plan to make any adjustments to Arcanist as well?

And what exactly is going on with the Templar changes? Standing still and doing damage in PvP? Even in the current patch, Aether is merely a usable set; it’s hardly dominant. If Aether Javelin only generates while you’re standing still, does that basically mean Templar is being forced to fight reactively?

And without nerfing Sorcerer, you’re giving Templar a “stand-still-and-deal-damage” playstyle in PvP? Is the idea to let Templar stand there and get shredded?

Have the people responsible for class balance actually played PvP?

Can the people making the game actually play the game before making changes based on assumptions?

"Sorcerers deserve to be nerfed" Meanwhile, the entire enemy team spam locking and deleting people while using WW and DK:

A sorc cannot fight this. While sure, sorcs are great, they cannot stack up to this. Not even a fraction.

My solution though is that these combat changes in this PTS cycle are not enough to bridge the gap. Don't nerf WW and DK, just bridge the gap so that they don't have uncounterable power.

Like yeah, I'm sure Arcanists and Templars are having a grand time trying to counter these folks /s

That’s honestly hilarious. Your situation would have been exactly the same even if you were playing Dragonknight or Werewolf. Do you seriously expect a single Sorcerer to be able to carry a fight against eight players on their own?

You were literally the person on your team who died the least. The real problem here is that you were matched against a team that was much stronger than yours. That’s a matchmaking/ranking problem with ESO, not evidence that Sorcerer is incapable of dealing with them.

You haven’t actually addressed my point at all.

Instead, why not push ESO to introduce some proper Battlegrounds, with stronger rewards for actually completing objectives? That would encourage players to focus on playing the Battleground mechanics instead of obsessing over their kill/death ratio.

No you're misinterpreting my point. I'm saying that Sorc is the only one able to stand up to a DK or WW and that means that they are the only non refreshed class that can stand up to DK and WW, if you nerf them, NO ONE CAN STAND UP TO WEREWOLVES AND DKs.

No matter whether or not my team was good or bad, the determining factor on who wins a match is how many DKs and WWs are on the other team. Versus how little are on yours.

Instead of using that philosophy, we should buff the other classes other than Sorc, to the point where they can be formidable against DKs and WWs. WWs should not be grinding inside of BGs with virtually zero counters besides poison, and DKs just supplement those teams with more oppression.

Anyways if there were other counters to DKs and WWs and all of us were on equal playing fields, I would agree with your point, but that's just not reality.

And while I agree with you that matchmaking has a problem, and I agree with your BG solution, good players gravitate towards good setups, this includes META, because that's how skill based upward growth is in every competitive game ever.

The good players are not using the bad classes or using bad gear, because they want to continue utilizing their experience on classes and setups that do not punish them for their use.

And to clarify, I'm not saying your point is an invalid one, I'm just saying that it makes no sense on why we should make only the top two folks stay top two instead of letting a third or fourth class stay higher, so that there is actually another counter to classes with zero counters. Once ZOS figures out other classes like Arcanist and Templar should be buffed a certain way, then we can talk about tempering conservation of energy to a more moderate state.

Achieving class balance is inherently difficult. Even in a game like World of Warcraft, class imbalances have persisted for years. But we still need to try to achieve it. It's completely normal for every class to have its strong periods, but if a class remains overpowered indefinitely, doesn't that mean it's time for some nerfs?

On the other hand, if you just buff the weaker classes, you run into the issue of power creep, which also makes the PvP pace much faster. Remember when the Nightmarket ring first came out? The battlegrounds literally felt like a shooter game.

Besides, skilled players should be able to adapt and play different classes, learning the unique characteristics of each. Nerfing the overpowered classes while buffing the underperforming ones is simply what balancing should be.

Based on the adjustments they've announced, Dragonknights will be getting nerfed. By that logic, Sorcerers, who are equally strong, should be nerfed as well. Whether ZOS chooses to bridge the gap by buffing or nerfing, the ultimate goal should be to ensure that every class remains viable and fun to play.

However, it's obvious that the current PvP imbalance is also negatively affecting the PvE experience. If balancing is so difficult for ZOS, why not just separate PvE and PvP into two completely independent build systems?

Fair points tbh. This changed my opinion.

I guess it's more just that PvP in general does not feel fun, or particularly engaging or even particularly rewarding right now(even while I play a sorc), and won't for the next 6 or however many months until warden gets it's refresh and starts being able to compete. PvP feels awful and will continue to feel awful(mostly because I refuse to swap classes on the way to grand warlord, mostly because I want mine to get there for a specific reason), and I'm not really sure going back to the same cycle as before of buffs and nerfs will even fix this "tailspin" as another user called it earlier.

I also wouldn't really like it if everyone became a superhero like the DK over other classes, because wars of attrition where everyone battles on forever isn't fun either.

They should be more hardcore in their battle spirit specific nerfs and honestly stop the PvE ***.

But even though I say that, Cyrodiil feels about 4 times better than BGs do right now. So something is BG specific that makes the game mode suck, and those balance issues far more apparent. It's much less punishing and exhausting In Cyrodiil. And I am excluding vengeance, because no one likes vengeance.

I personally quite like **Revenge**, but I don’t like having to spend half my time running around Cyrodiil just to find a fight to participate in.

I think ZOS could take the **Revenge skill and gear system** as the foundation and use the **Battlegrounds Deathmatch ruleset** to create something like this—a true PvP arena.

In this kind of arena, you wouldn’t have unkillable tanks or healers with infinite sustain. You also wouldn’t get instantly deleted by a single burst combo, nor would you have situations where two players fight each other for 30 minutes without either of them being able to secure a kill.

Players would have to carefully manage their **Magicka, Stamina, and Health** throughout the fight and make meaningful decisions about resource management. Ideally, I’d also reduce the overall damage output a little compared to the current Revenge setup.

I really hope ZOS will consider this idea. I don’t think something like this would be particularly difficult to implement in the short term. And I think it could also help **give Revenge a reason to continue developing and moving forward** to some extent.

C_Inside wrote: »

Did you consider that maybe there are people who actually like the double bash weave rotation? Did you consider that there are people out there who enjoyed learning and mastering a more difficult yet actually rewarding playstyle? Did you consider that bash Goliath is the only DPS ultimate in the game that enables a new playstile and that by nerfing it you're just helping homogenize the game even more?

They didn’t seem to consider this or care when destroying werewolf sustain which ergo directly affects ‘werewolf bash weaving’ as well.

I loved the skill expression despite it being 1-bar.

MSattrtand wrote: »

Double-bash-weaving on 6-mil dummy, so only my own sustain. Green food, tri-stat potions. Sustain is bad. Do not double-bash-weave in groups that can't even provide the Orb.

And no, you can't sustain double-bash-weaving on Mag Werewolf, like any other Mag spec. And yes, once again I'm talking only about PvE.

BROTHER, other mediums of content EXIST aside from a 21m PvE dummy with sustain buffs.

Werewolf's whole playstyle is 'ST and Sustain'... there are VAST mediums of solo content in the game (higher difficulty overland, Maelstrom, Vat, IA, etc.)!

Beyond that, things get chaotic in actual trials. NOT EVERY TRIAL is remotely perfect!

Anyone with common sense can tell you my Arcanist mastery 1-4 man PvE tank wolf WILL BE HEAVILY AFFECTED by the changes. I use my high healing to proc the force mastery and I have a reasonable tank stam pool of about 18k stam... my survivability and rotations will be heavily affected by doubling and tripling costs.

Anyone with common sense will say the same about my IA build with staple PvE damage sets and high health (low stam). Beyond this, if they are happy with PvE as-is, why is it being affected AT ALL? They have the modifiers to adjust these things by using 'in Battle Spirit'.

PvP in its entirety is either SOLO or GROUP whereas solo the ONLY buffs I have are the ones I provide myself! PVP REQUIRES I roll and block more than any PvE content WILL EVER, and that's just at a MINIMUM.

GO TO PVP AND LET ME KNOW HOW MUCH RAMPAGE YOU BUILD AS YOU'RE BEING CHASED DOWN BY MULTIPLE PEOPLE AND HAVING TO MOVE AROUND/CANNOT STAY ON A TARGET 24/7 (it's little to none depending on if you have the time to slow down and hit abilities per GCD)

'well- if you are on a mag wolf, parsing on a 21m dummy, and nothing goes wrong before your first rampage'... LOLLLLLLLLL