Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

You’re asking to bring down damage then ttk at the same time, make up your mind.
This just reads like the usual “I don’t want anyone to kill me but to be able to kill everyone”, you want survivability nerfed because you can’t kill, you want damage nerfed because you die to it, this is a loop.

Nope that's not what I'm saying at all. Lash damage is out of whack with everything else in the game. Full stop.

And the Sorc passives for damage are out of whack with every other class passive. Full stop.

Not talking about reducing damage in general at all.

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Pvpers do want damage up for some classes and setups but not down, high damage is fun, stalemates and tanks are not.

Stalemates are coming from what I said before - infinite sustain. That is the crux of the problem in PvP right now. Infinite sustain causes infinite shields and infinite heals. Power creep combines with it too to make heal-to-full possible with one button click even when a DK has like 15% of its total HP.

DK sustain is just plain stupid broken. Sorcs can literally streak forever now. But Nightblades can't even cloak and run into a keep anymore without running out of Mag.

Sustain is the number one thing broken, among like 4 or 5, in PvP today.

I would like to point out the WW sustain nerf issue one more time. Making werewolf good only for 1 class (Sorc) is not fair and is a bad idea for the variety of builds and game health. Instead of nerfing the sustain so hard, I suggest nerfing it by 10-20%. And additionally disabling class masteries when in werewolf form. If this is not enough, you can also disable class passives. This way werewolf won't be too strong, but will be viable on any class, not only on sorc with Conservation of Energy sorc class mastery.

Red99 wrote: »

Disable Conservatioin of Energy when in werewolf form and u have fixed the werewolf

Add to this to disable it for health cost abilities (vampire blood for blood) and core combat (block, roll, bash, etc.) and it's fixed for everything.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm baffled as to why DK's sustain is still untouched.

I'm a DK main. I still think Core of Flame and its morphs are busted. Everything that is in the "this is OP" complaints is because of one thing: unlimited sustain. That's Core of Flame for DK, and that's cheap skills combined with Conservation for Sorc Werewolf, and that's multiple enhanced status effects from a free spammable.

One of those was addressed. One of those was sort of addressed, but not wholly. And one of those was ignored.

Corrosive's also been an issue for a while, but the mitigation was reduced a bit ago. Still, that mitigation isn't enough for the raw offensive power it has, so much so that Magma Shell is completely overshadowed in every circumstance (you trade all of the damage it does for a worse version of barrier on your team, and then it locks you out of ult gen for 15 seconds).

A lot of the DK being OP issues would be solved from just:

1. kneecap the amount of resources from Core of Flame and its morphs (I'd go back to the enemies hit-based heal it used to have)
2. Severely reduce the mitigation offerred by Corrosive Armor

Whip just hits far too hard and the ability to access delayed burst makes sure that neither of these would be sufficient to mitigate much of the problem behaviors of DK (should they of course deem DK as ‘not in a healthy state’ in PvP).

Long story short, my whip should not be hitting in an insta-hit for 15-19k building no pen with 2 defensive sets (Bloodspawn and Rally) out of corro and onslaught. This is obviously made worse by the fact they have multiple iterations of damage in their ‘combo’ (Core of Flame, Flames of Oblivion, Petrify damage on break, etc.)

Don't forget all the built in damage modifiers DK has, on top of the access to upfront and delayed burst.
10% from Landslide
10% from Minor Brutality
10% damage done from Take Flight
10% Major Berserk from Lead from the front class mastery
7% to AOE and DoT damage from World in Ruin passive
5% Flame Damage from Traumatic Burns passive
215wd from Minor Courage tied to a burst heal

This is all on top of modifiers like Major Protection from Storm Voice
Infinite sustain from CoF and Battle Roar

I get that other classes haven't been reworked yet, but with how overloaded this class is and the reworks being pushed back 1-2 years, I see no other way to balance the game without bringing DK down in power for the time being.

Personally I dont understand why it was called rework at the first place. Rework means skill works differently. For example removing poison from dk kit, and adding dmg to burning is rework. Increasing whip tooltip is straightforward buff. Increasing core of flame sustain is straightforward buff.

It was not a rework, it was clear, hardcore buff.

Other classes tooltips (backlash, blastbones, shalks etc) should be buffed ASAP to match whip tooltip. Reworks can wait. Buffs cant.

Expert Hunter/Magelight: Love to see some non class skills getting attention and while the changes are very much welcome imo, it still drives me insane that these only work on the bar it's slotted on or needs to be double slotted. Preferably I'd like to have them only on my back bar for utility use, but if I want the crit buff (and I do) it needs to be on the front bar. Really ruins so many builds for me that it hasn't been made to work on one bar like almost all of the other skills that grant this kind of passive buff.

Imbue Weapon: This has been my go-to spammable for years and from a little testing, it already feels better to use. Little tweaks like this are appreciated, seriously.

Exploitation: As a mostly solo player, I love the change to this sorc passive. Will finally allow me to swap up what trait I run on my weapons.

Rallying Momentums heal getting players out of stealth will effectively kill pve thievin builds (at least mine) because they revolve around paying life for resources which then gets healed with the only skill that does not get players outta stealth which is rallying momentum. Guards will flock on the thief still using that after U51 which makes that playstyle dead. Everyone havin to run darloc brae and sitting in a corner till resources are back will be very annoying and rob thieves a lot of time as well as making a dedicated thief much less exciting to play.

At the same time gankers which rely on that skill and same resource juggling to heal up may just press it again while line of sighting so any issue which had led to this nerf applies to PvE way more than to PvP. NB - or ganking - is still not really good so I can´t even think of a reason why to nerf all those abilities which now put players out of stealth. Gankers are high risk high reward builds often using nondefensive traits on equipment and running low HP for maximum output of DMG which means that in my eyes they sacrifice survivability for burst. Sacrificing A to gain B is a good way to balance but most PvP builds sacrifice nothing and are way better in combat. Almost every other PvP playstyle runs more like an allrounder: high healing high sustain high damage high survivability - thats broken and nerfing the only playstyle that legitimately sacrifices a lot to archieve little imo ain´t the way to go so please reconsider the changes to abilities putting ppl out of stealth. Imo Gankers really ain´t a problem for experienced PvPers to fight - not only because theres so much anti stealth in the game everyone and their granny has it - but because gankers in most cases cant even get through their heals, shields and defensive maneuvers which results in a dead ganker and an allrounder surviving a situation where the odds should have been stacked against the allrounder.

Thanks for your time

Radiate77 wrote: »

Can we at least convert Blazing Shield into a Spammable that scales with Resistance if this is the route we’re heading?

Yo that would be incredible. So many Templar skills could just get nuked, reworked, or even removed and the class would feel unchanged with how underwhelming most of the kit is.

Yo, so now that Elemental Weapon is better than Swallow soul, Is Magblade officially done for? With this skill change, there is 0 incentive for me to use swallow soul in PvP.

I feel like Swallow soul should nuke since we are trying to go towards class fantasy, but instead y'all made it much easier to just slot Crushing weapon instead, as it is 3x more rewarding than swallow soul.

I feel like I'm not getting heard. Not only only am I PvP player, but I'm also a magblade (ranged) playstyle enjoyer, and after every update, it seems everything gets stronger, except swallow soul. We lack a ranged stun, a ranged ultimate, and we have let the ranged spammable get worse and worse when compared to other classes.

I wouldn't really complain if I had a ranged stun, or a delayed burst. The way that the class mechanics work, it will never compete in this era of ESO.

I also understand that my class will get reworked at some point, that time is now unknown, but I will not be putting hundreds of hours in this game anymore until I can play my class again.

Cons- No timed burst, no timed stun, no timed ultimate, terrible spammable,

Pros- Sustain, healing, mobility, 1 okayish DoT

Product- Unkillable Target Dummy

FoJul wrote: »

Yo, so now that Elemental Weapon is better than Swallow soul, Is Magblade officially done for? With this skill change, there is 0 incentive for me to use swallow soul in PvP.

I feel like Swallow soul should nuke since we are trying to go towards class fantasy, but instead y'all made it much easier to just slot Crushing weapon instead, as it is 3x more rewarding than swallow soul.

I feel like I'm not getting heard. Not only only am I PvP player, but I'm also a magblade (ranged) playstyle enjoyer, and after every update, it seems everything gets stronger, except swallow soul. We lack a ranged stun, a ranged ultimate, and we have let the ranged spammable get worse and worse when compared to other classes.

I wouldn't really complain if I had a ranged stun, or a delayed burst. The way that the class mechanics work, it will never compete in this era of ESO.

I also understand that my class will get reworked at some point, that time is now unknown, but I will not be putting hundreds of hours in this game anymore until I can play my class again.

Cons- No timed burst, no timed stun, no timed ultimate, terrible spammable,

Pros- Sustain, healing, mobility, 1 okayish DoT

Product- Unkillable Target Dummy

Haven’t played magblade in years but should Soulcleaver be helping out swallow soul a bit? I know concealed weapon is an insane spammable but Soulcleaver got buffed last patch so maybe?

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Haven’t played magblade in years but should Soulcleaver be helping out swallow soul a bit? I know concealed weapon is an insane spammable but Soulcleaver got buffed last patch so maybe?

Cleaver does a ton for Swallow Soul, yeah. Big issue with the current round of changes is it kinda removes the choice; if you have enough sustain to run funnel health, you should always run funnel health since it'll heal others too, unless you are just 100% solo. I'm mostly ok with the buffs to funnel, but I think SS should still bring something that makes it the stronger damage morph, even if that's just a small buff or debuff (like how stam jabs and mag jabs now have similar tooltip damage, but stam jabs has a higher chance to proc its status debuff).

To keep SS in line with siphoning's theme it shouldn't lose self healing, I'd lean towards adding a minor buff + debuff combination, such as enervation to people you hit and force for the NB. Something to keep SS as the stronger damage morph.

FoJul wrote: »

If we are talking about changes, We should bring the damage up slightly higher than guild tooltips, and add minor lifesteal. Not only will your teammates benefit from it, but it keeps the class fantasy with siphoning, and gives us a flat heal rather than a scaling heal, which is what is keeping the skill from being good.

If they buff the damage they are also buffing the healing, this is why the skill has remained untouched. Lifesteal would be a similar heal to what it is now.

I don't think this change would break the game at all, and I whole heartedly believe is the best thing for the skill without making it abuseable.

No it wouldn't lmao? Lifesteal is like 600 per second base, before factoring in % healing boosts and battle spirit. I've seen SS ticks as high as 7k from hits on players, even larger from tagging npcs while fighting on resources with players trying to parse on me.

Luneca wrote: »

I feel the same way about magelight / hunter . They should work on both bars to give classes without a slottable crit skill an option for one. If not, it just continues to mean that subclassing isn't optional in some cases.

Seriously, even as a sorc I've always had to run either Magelight/Expert Hunter or the Treasure Hunter set since I hate using potions for such a major buff and I dislike the Bound Armaments ability (don't like that its stamina based and find it feels clunky to use). I did mess around with subclassing a bit and had fun, but I truly prefer being a pure sorc build and now I'm back to one of them taking up room on my front bar in my current build.

And especially now with the sorc refresh being pushed back.... since these skills are getting some attention from the devs for the first time in years, I really hope they also take some time to bring Magelight/Expert Hunter up to the standard of the other skills that give these buffs. I shouldn't be inconvenienced for choosing an alternative source of the buff over my class version of it and gods know I already spend enough time struggling just to fit my class pets onto my bars.

FoJul wrote: »

Before this becomes an argument and I ask you for evidence and all that non sense. I will say, that mechanically speaking, lifesteal is 600 every 1 second, and swallow soul is 40% of whatever damage you dealt. So in PvE, it will be a slight nerf to your own healing, but adds healing for everyone else, which is way more useful.

Not only that, but you mentioned using a NPC to proc the healing, is not a guaranteed factor in most fights.

But we also know that the healing in PvP gets affected big time, especially when Swallow Soul is involved. Because for 1, swallow soul is underperforming and has a slight delay to its damage dealing factor. And after the direct dmg and healing negative effect from battle spirit, You can sometimes hit 2k heals from swallow soul heal tick. Saying you ticked for 7k is not real against a player. It just simply is not.

But even then say you 2k heal every 2 seconds, over 10 seconds thats 10k healing.

However Minor lifesteal does not get affected by battle spirit, so 600 x 10 ticks (10 seconds) thats 6k healing.
- Dont forget this healing is applied to other ppl who also attack the same target.

Like I said I don't want this to become a back and forth, Just an acknowledgement that the changes to the ability weren't good, and having a scaling heal is the reason why this argument even existed. Proving my point even further.

"Slight nerf to your own healing" first of all, on our last pve night we had fights where I was around 15k healing per second from swallow soul alone. admittedly I did not take much damage on that fight so it was all overhealing, but here:

Average SS hot tick was 27k, 15.3k (over)healing per second; fight was vet xoryn. Changing swallow soul to apply minor lifesteal would just make it even worse and force anyone who wants to run the skill to run funnel, even more than the current round of changes, because it'd be a choice between minor lifesteal procs or spreading around a gigantic bloody hot.

Battle Spirit doesn't actually double dip vs swallow soul, and yeah I was wrong about it with lifesteal; the damage gets reduced, but the healing based on that damage doesn't get cut in half a second time. This is from before the latest cleaver buff

8.2k hit, 4k tick, but notably I wasn't actually near a keep for the +20% healing done from Combat Medic to kick in. Considering in the past week I've landed 9-12k ss hits on players, a 7k tick is probably at the high end but is certainly possible. But even if we take that to be massive exaggeration, minor lifesteal would be significantly more awful, particularly because there are so many other sources of it.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Before this becomes an argument and I ask you for evidence and all that non sense. I will say, that mechanically speaking, lifesteal is 600 every 1 second, and swallow soul is 40% of whatever damage you dealt. So in PvE, it will be a slight nerf to your own healing, but adds healing for everyone else, which is way more useful.

Not only that, but you mentioned using a NPC to proc the healing, is not a guaranteed factor in most fights.

But we also know that the healing in PvP gets affected big time, especially when Swallow Soul is involved. Because for 1, swallow soul is underperforming and has a slight delay to its damage dealing factor. And after the direct dmg and healing negative effect from battle spirit, You can sometimes hit 2k heals from swallow soul heal tick. Saying you ticked for 7k is not real against a player. It just simply is not.

But even then say you 2k heal every 2 seconds, over 10 seconds thats 10k healing.

However Minor lifesteal does not get affected by battle spirit, so 600 x 10 ticks (10 seconds) thats 6k healing.
- Dont forget this healing is applied to other ppl who also attack the same target.

Like I said I don't want this to become a back and forth, Just an acknowledgement that the changes to the ability weren't good, and having a scaling heal is the reason why this argument even existed. Proving my point even further.

"Slight nerf to your own healing" first of all, on our last pve night we had fights where I was around 15k healing per second from swallow soul alone. admittedly I did not take much damage on that fight so it was all overhealing, but here:

Average SS hot tick was 27k, 15.3k (over)healing per second; fight was vet xoryn. Changing swallow soul to apply minor lifesteal would just make it even worse and force anyone who wants to run the skill to run funnel, even more than the current round of changes, because it'd be a choice between minor lifesteal procs or spreading around a gigantic bloody hot.

Battle Spirit doesn't actually double dip vs swallow soul, and yeah I was wrong about it with lifesteal; the damage gets reduced, but the healing based on that damage doesn't get cut in half a second time. This is from before the latest cleaver buff

8.2k hit, 4k tick, but notably I wasn't actually near a keep for the +20% healing done from Combat Medic to kick in. Considering in the past week I've landed 9-12k ss hits on players, a 7k tick is probably at the high end but is certainly possible. But even if we take that to be massive exaggeration, minor lifesteal would be significantly more awful, particularly because there are so many other sources of it.

Lol

FoJul wrote: »

Lol

Yeah sure buffs for siphoning, except

We have already learned that this isn't a great idea because it's just gonna turn that 10% damage buff into another maintenance buff for all nightblades instead of something that specifically improves strife/funnel/swallow soul.