Goregram1 wrote: »

Balance is broken in every part of the game an they don't care i don't see the game lasting another year at this rate. cyro is nothing but dk an ww an ball grps of dks a wws an the groups fight forever hardly anyone dyeing or 1 group just out sustains the other or a few pve solos jump in an cause a vd prock that kills everyone

I understand your pain with PvP... I can't really help you there. But it seems like... you just don't have enough PvP DPS.

Valkanos wrote: »

Goregram1 wrote: »

Balance is broken in every part of the game an they don't care i don't see the game lasting another year at this rate. cyro is nothing but dk an ww an ball grps of dks a wws an the groups fight forever hardly anyone dyeing or 1 group just out sustains the other or a few pve solos jump in an cause a vd prock that kills everyone

I understand your pain with PvP... I can't really help you there. But it seems like... you just don't have enough PvP DPS.

seems like you dont play cyro because you would know before the class rework stuff there wasn't much of a issue u had sum annoying ball groups but they could be killed an the fights between groups wouldn't go on forever with no one on either side dyeing or winning

Valkanos wrote: »

Goregram1 wrote: »

seems like you dont play cyro because you would know before the class rework stuff there wasn't much of a issue u had sum annoying ball groups but they could be killed an the fights between groups wouldn't go on forever with no one on either side dyeing or winning

Seems like you don't play PvE, because you would know that if the group can't kill the boss, the solution is obviously not fixing the mechanics, balance, or group composition.
You just need more DPS.

Can't do the mechanic? More DPS.
Can't survive? More DPS.
Healer struggling? More DPS.
Tank dying? More DPS.
Everyone wiping? Believe it or not... more DPS.

I'm sure ZOS will fix the rest eventually. Maybe after they add... more DPS.

Sounds like a DPS issue

freespirit wrote: »

Through out the history of this game new dungeons/trials release > people play the mechanics > people get bored and work out how to stack and burn...

This really isn't a "new" thing!

Hum... I wonder how FIFA handles this. I don't play FIFA games, but I imagine that when players get bored of kicking a ball around, they just replace the ball with a box, right?
Or what about Counter-Strike? When players get bored, do they eventually trade their weapons for lollipops?!
Just asking... maybe they do. I don't know!

Because in ESO, we solve all our problems with... Exactly.
MORE DPS!!

now do vHOF and vMOL as those appear to be missing from the listing lol

Valkanos wrote: »

Just wanna say that focusing the game almost entirely on DPS, while slowly ignoring the "core" of the game, building proper groups with 1T, 1H, and 2 DD's for dungeons, and 2T, 2H, plus 8 DD's for trials, has worked out really well.
Replacing all that with 1T, 1 healer if we're feeling adventurous, and everyone else as enought DPS is definitely the way forward. And why bother learning trial mechanics when you can simply skip half of them with enough DPS?

Honestly, it's great to see what ESO has become. People clearly love this direction, and judging by the way the game is designed, this must be exactly what everyone wanted.
10/10. No notes.

• vDSR - Just burn the twins. Ignore the Atros and the dome mechanics! 33 stacks? That's nothing... you can handle more!
• vRG - Ignore shield rolls. During Bahsei, stack all the Abominations on the boss. The more Abominations, the better! Bring DPS and it's a win-win for everyone.
• vSE - Portals?! Nah. Just fast-res everyone. Stack all the Wamasu on the boss, almost like the Abominations in vRG. The more Wamasu, the better... high numbers, right?! ! Roll, try to freeze everyone, and of course... don't forget to DPS.
• vAS - Kiting?! Positions?! Interrupts?! Why bother?! Just DPS!
• vCR - Skip everything. Stack, spread, stack again... and DPS Z'Maja. Are you a onebar player? Get out of here. Don't mess with our fun!
• vKA - Stack as much as you can, especially during the meteors. Don't block, don't destroy the harpoon. What do we need? DPS, of course! And the boat... or just skip it! And if you're a very, very good tank, stack Bulwark in Stormcaller. Because that's where we separate the kids from the grown-ups.
• vOC - Do you have DPS? No? Then go do another trial.
• vSS - We can complete HM with 1 Oakensoul healer, 2 tanks, and someone who does DPS. Got 30k HP? Perfect! You're ready for T2B! Just keep increasing that HP the same way others keep increasing their DPS.

What a fantastic evolution of trial mechanics. Who needs roles, positioning, coordination, or mechanics when you can just... DPS?

Thank you, ZOS

The people that want the game to be like this are the ones that are always asking for "Just balance it with battle spirit". The concepts of coherent and immersive game design, depth and complexity have been sacrificed on the altar of accessibility, just so that every last "DPS main" can run his <30 APM glass cannon builds through the entire game.

People literally feel entitled to be exempt from game mechanics these days, because "chill bro, PvE encounters don't have feelings".

Maybe that is too disdainful, but I really feel your post and these people make me sick to the core.

Yes,so the only interesting parts of the game are the solo tank hard mode pug trial and most of the trifecta after vRG.

Vaqual wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Just wanna say that focusing the game almost entirely on DPS, while slowly ignoring the "core" of the game, building proper groups with 1T, 1H, and 2 DD's for dungeons, and 2T, 2H, plus 8 DD's for trials, has worked out really well.
Replacing all that with 1T, 1 healer if we're feeling adventurous, and everyone else as enought DPS is definitely the way forward. And why bother learning trial mechanics when you can simply skip half of them with enough DPS?

Honestly, it's great to see what ESO has become. People clearly love this direction, and judging by the way the game is designed, this must be exactly what everyone wanted.
10/10. No notes.

• vDSR - Just burn the twins. Ignore the Atros and the dome mechanics! 33 stacks? That's nothing... you can handle more!
• vRG - Ignore shield rolls. During Bahsei, stack all the Abominations on the boss. The more Abominations, the better! Bring DPS and it's a win-win for everyone.
• vSE - Portals?! Nah. Just fast-res everyone. Stack all the Wamasu on the boss, almost like the Abominations in vRG. The more Wamasu, the better... high numbers, right?! ! Roll, try to freeze everyone, and of course... don't forget to DPS.
• vAS - Kiting?! Positions?! Interrupts?! Why bother?! Just DPS!
• vCR - Skip everything. Stack, spread, stack again... and DPS Z'Maja. Are you a onebar player? Get out of here. Don't mess with our fun!
• vKA - Stack as much as you can, especially during the meteors. Don't block, don't destroy the harpoon. What do we need? DPS, of course! And the boat... or just skip it! And if you're a very, very good tank, stack Bulwark in Stormcaller. Because that's where we separate the kids from the grown-ups.
• vOC - Do you have DPS? No? Then go do another trial.
• vSS - We can complete HM with 1 Oakensoul healer, 2 tanks, and someone who does DPS. Got 30k HP? Perfect! You're ready for T2B! Just keep increasing that HP the same way others keep increasing their DPS.

What a fantastic evolution of trial mechanics. Who needs roles, positioning, coordination, or mechanics when you can just... DPS?

Thank you, ZOS

The people that want the game to be like this are the ones that are always asking for "Just balance it with battle spirit". The concepts of coherent and immersive game design, depth and complexity have been sacrificed on the altar of accessibility, just so that every last "DPS main" can run his <30 APM glass cannon builds through the entire game.

People literally feel entitled to be exempt from game mechanics these days, because "chill bro, PvE encounters don't have feelings".

Maybe that is too disdainful, but I really feel your post and these people make me sick to the core.

100% agree, the same people can't understand that being able to ignore all mechanics like we've been able to do for a long time is actually bad game design.

Imagine being a developer spending time and resources designing encounters and mechanics that you're excited for the players to experience, just for players to bypass them. Been saying it for the longest time but ESO needs a massive stat squish in both PvP and PvE.

Actually, I'd really like to see the old content from the 2026 power creeper
the new trials have been postponed until next year,i hear it last boss have 300m health,but it before class mastery,now maybe they need give it more health and mech group wipe
vss/vka hm should hard like voc/vlc hm and a small mistack can wipe all group
last boss portal should every dps must do 150k+

Valkanos wrote: »

Just wanna say that focusing the game almost entirely on DPS, while slowly ignoring the "core" of the game, building proper groups with 1T, 1H, and 2 DD's for dungeons, and 2T, 2H, plus 8 DD's for trials, has worked out really well.
Replacing all that with 1T, 1 healer if we're feeling adventurous, and everyone else as enought DPS is definitely the way forward. And why bother learning trial mechanics when you can simply skip half of them with enough DPS?

Honestly, it's great to see what ESO has become. People clearly love this direction, and judging by the way the game is designed, this must be exactly what everyone wanted.
10/10. No notes.

• vDSR - Just burn the twins. Ignore the Atros and the dome mechanics! 33 stacks? That's nothing... you can handle more!
• vRG - Ignore shield rolls. During Bahsei, stack all the Abominations on the boss. The more Abominations, the better! Bring DPS and it's a win-win for everyone.
• vSE - Portals?! Nah. Just fast-res everyone. Stack all the Wamasu on the boss, almost like the Abominations in vRG. The more Wamasu, the better... high numbers, right?! ! Roll, try to freeze everyone, and of course... don't forget to DPS.
• vAS - Kiting?! Positions?! Interrupts?! Why bother?! Just DPS!
• vCR - Skip everything. Stack, spread, stack again... and DPS Z'Maja. Are you a onebar player? Get out of here. Don't mess with our fun!
• vKA - Stack as much as you can, especially during the meteors. Don't block, don't destroy the harpoon. What do we need? DPS, of course! And the boat... or just skip it! And if you're a very, very good tank, stack Bulwark in Stormcaller. Because that's where we separate the kids from the grown-ups.
• vOC - Do you have DPS? No? Then go do another trial.
• vSS - We can complete HM with 1 Oakensoul healer, 2 tanks, and someone who does DPS. Got 30k HP? Perfect! You're ready for T2B! Just keep increasing that HP the same way others keep increasing their DPS.

What a fantastic evolution of trial mechanics. Who needs roles, positioning, coordination, or mechanics when you can just... DPS?

Thank you, ZOS

Valkanos wrote: »

Just wanna say that focusing the game almost entirely on DPS, while slowly ignoring the "core" of the game, building proper groups with 1T, 1H, and 2 DD's for dungeons, and 2T, 2H, plus 8 DD's for trials, has worked out really well.
Replacing all that with 1T, 1 healer if we're feeling adventurous, and everyone else as enought DPS is definitely the way forward. And why bother learning trial mechanics when you can simply skip half of them with enough DPS?

Honestly, it's great to see what ESO has become. People clearly love this direction, and judging by the way the game is designed, this must be exactly what everyone wanted.
10/10. No notes.

• vDSR - Just burn the twins. Ignore the Atros and the dome mechanics! 33 stacks? That's nothing... you can handle more!
• vRG - Ignore shield rolls. During Bahsei, stack all the Abominations on the boss. The more Abominations, the better! Bring DPS and it's a win-win for everyone.
• vSE - Portals?! Nah. Just fast-res everyone. Stack all the Wamasu on the boss, almost like the Abominations in vRG. The more Wamasu, the better... high numbers, right?! ! Roll, try to freeze everyone, and of course... don't forget to DPS.
• vAS - Kiting?! Positions?! Interrupts?! Why bother?! Just DPS!
• vCR - Skip everything. Stack, spread, stack again... and DPS Z'Maja. Are you a onebar player? Get out of here. Don't mess with our fun!
• vKA - Stack as much as you can, especially during the meteors. Don't block, don't destroy the harpoon. What do we need? DPS, of course! And the boat... or just skip it! And if you're a very, very good tank, stack Bulwark in Stormcaller. Because that's where we separate the kids from the grown-ups.
• vOC - Do you have DPS? No? Then go do another trial.
• vSS - We can complete HM with 1 Oakensoul healer, 2 tanks, and someone who does DPS. Got 30k HP? Perfect! You're ready for T2B! Just keep increasing that HP the same way others keep increasing their DPS.

What a fantastic evolution of trial mechanics. Who needs roles, positioning, coordination, or mechanics when you can just... DPS?

Thank you, ZOS

I would argue the ESO community opened the door for this sort of design when they let fake tanks and fake healers run rampant in dungeon finder. The community devalued tanks and healers and it was only a matter of time until it seeped into other content.

The Scylla and Charybdis you're stuck between is that new sets and balance changes should result in higher numbers not just on the dummy, but in content, as well--this damage increase creates a sense of progression, but also trivializes older content that was designed with lower damage numbers in mind.

Think about it. If all new sets and systems, like Scribing and subclassing, meant that we still had to hop aboard the boat during Vrol, or do Lunar Phase, well--there wouldn't be any point to it all, would there?

There's a specific progression intended by the developers: overland to dungeons to trials, and older trials before newer trials. And that's a good path to follow as you're learning, because the newer trials are designed with current damage numbers in mind, numbers that a newer player won't be able to hit.

I think a much healthier mindset is to take pleasure in the thrill of being skilled enough to "beat the system," as it were.

RaikaNA wrote: »

Goregram1 wrote: »

Balance is broken in every part of the game an they don't care i don't see the game lasting another year at this rate. cyro is nothing but dk an ww an ball grps of dks a wws an the groups fight forever hardly anyone dyeing or 1 group just out sustains the other or a few pve solos jump in an cause a vd prock that kills everyone

To be fair... WW for the longest time was trash..., absolute trash. Zos actually made WW fun again. There is nothing wrong with WW, and they can be killed.. I main a WW, and I die a lot. People are just abusing broken sets that make them unkillable.

I'm sorry but skill issue, good players on WW are impossible level threat to everyone

noneatza wrote: »

So...if it's that easy, i assume you have all the trial trifecta achievements, right?

Ofc... not! But yesterday we went for vRG Trifecta. Before that, we all agreed that, before even thinking about Trifecta, we should probably try the Speed Run first. You know, just to make sure we knew what we were doing. Apparently, that was optimistic.

Oaxiltso - Damn easy and fast. MT kept the boss in the middle room while OT kept the mini stacked on Oaxiltso. Meanwhile, RL was screaming like there was no tomorrow: **BURN BOSS! BURN BOSS! BURNNNNNN BOSSSSS!"**
We wiped. But honestly, it was hilarious seeing 3 minis still alive. DPS was amazing! Everything was going exactly according to plan... except for the part where we were supposed to kill the boss.

Bahsei - Also very good. Stack all the abominations on the boss, BIG parse on him, and absolutely NO KITES. None. Not a single one. The funniest parse? Curses. Yep. Curses everywhere! Apparently, we were trying to set some kind of world record for Most Curses Applied During a Speed Run. Once again, DPS saves the day. And I started thinking... "One of the best groups I've ever seen".

Xalvakka - This one was boring. No mechanics, just vibes and a DPS check. I believe the last time I saw an actual Xalvakka mechanic was around 1785. Since then, DPS has apparently been promoted to the main mechanic. And when basically any naked character can parse 50k DPS these days... I honestly have to ask: does Xalvakka even have mechanics anymore?!?!
Anyway, we killed her and completed the trial in around 28 minutes. Speed Run complete! We were ready to go for Trifecta...
...but then I left to go play Pokémon.
So, no idea what happened after that. ¯\*(ツ)*/¯

I could have a few more Trifectas... if I actually cared about Trifectas. But since I play the game for fun... I mean... yeah, right. Not for records, not for achievements, not for bragging rights.
So I guess by choosing to actually enjoy the game... or, you know, whatever is left of it these days... I’m basically auto-excluding myself from the Trifecta club.
Hmm... seems fair.

I’ve only been asked to skip mechanics in group finder groups. Fortunately in guild groups we started doing the vet mechanics in normal trials while we were still learning. Why make more work for yourself?

KulkGin142 wrote: »

As content gets older, new sets and more power creep gets added making old content easier since there is more damage. I like this approach as it means more people get evolved with trials and the end game community can come back and push even more the previous limits.

For an extreme example, the Reef fight in DSR.
We've come down from 20+ reefs clears during PTS to clears that last more than a minute (4 year old content).

I don't know if the OP issue with this is how PUGs/Group Finder runs are done with the expectation of skipping mechanics or if they just don't agree with the direction of "MORE AND MORE DPS". But as others said, it naturally occurs with more and more content added. I would add that the big damage jumps added from subclassing made this situation a bit more extreme, but that's a topic for another time.

Some people have been asking for a new difficulty above the HMs for older content for a while tho there haven’t been any comments from ZOS regarding this suggestion. Might be wrong on this, but none that I'm aware at least.

OFC I love the idea of more and more DPS... as long as we completely forget about mechanics. Because adding more DPS to a game where the core is supposed to be "follow the mechanics to complete the content and avoid the mechanics that kill you" makes perfect sense.

Especially when you think about the developers’ teams.
I imagine there are two teams.

Team 1: Mechanics.
They have nice meetings, nice discussions, probably some coffee, and spend weeks thinking:

- "Okay, what should players actually do here?"
- "Add they need to move here."
- "They need to interrupt this."
- "Maybe split into 3 groups."
- "And this phase should punish players who fail the mechanic."
Beautiful. Amazing. Great teamwork.

Then they proudly bring their masterpiece to...
Team 2: DPS.

Their objective is much simpler:
"So... how much DPS do we need to add so players can completely bypass everything Team 1 just designed?"
Brilliant. That makes perfect sense, right? It's almost like an RPGMMO!

It's basically the same philosophy as quests:
"You can complete this objective in three or four different ways."

And apparently trials and dungeons have evolved into the same thing:
"You can follow the mechanics...
OR...
you can just burn the boss."


Can't do the mechanic? DPS.
Don't understand the mechanic? DPS.
Didn't watch the guide? DPS.
Didn't even know there was a mechanic? MORE DPS.
Honestly, it works for everything. New content, old content, doesn't matter.

And you know what makes even more sense? vHRC. A trial that's, imagine this... 12 years old. Twelve Years!
And apparently we still need DDs to complete it. Why? Just put the loot chest right at the entrance.

1) We enter.
2) We open the chest.
3) We get the loot.
4) We leave. Done.

Everyone is tired of the trial because it's ancient anyway. There. Problem solved.
And don't worry about mechanics. We've already got Team 2 working on it.