Maintenance for the week of August 10:
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – August 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – August 10, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – August 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – August 10, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
The lesson of New World
-
CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭✭This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.3 -
RaikaNA✭✭✭✭✭
✭old_mufasa wrote: »You see this is a problem when you don't actually read the statement and comprehend what it said.
PvP was never marketed as the primary core of eso it was listed as a feature along with Rich story RPG game. You want further proof iPvP is not the primary focus of eso. Look at every single chapter release that the games come out with every single one focused on the story and the new dungeons. They weren't marketing the PVP and all the new features to PVP it was always about the story and the RPG element of the game.
I understand that maybe the PVP is what you like the most but you're just showing your bias if you think PVP was the primary focus of eso. PVP has always been a side experience for ESO.
I disagree that PvP was never marked as the primary core of eso.. It was. All 3 factions (AD/DC/EP) were fighting against each other to earn the right to the ruby throne in Cyrodiil until Molag Bal and Minnimacro ruined the party.
https://youtu.be/qLdYM70QNdo?si=uEx3O2K-Sb5KyibO
4 -
old_mufasa✭✭✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »You see this is a problem when you don't actually read the statement and comprehend what it said.
PvP was never marketed as the primary core of eso it was listed as a feature along with Rich story RPG game. You want further proof iPvP is not the primary focus of eso. Look at every single chapter release that the games come out with every single one focused on the story and the new dungeons. They weren't marketing the PVP and all the new features to PVP it was always about the story and the RPG element of the game.
I understand that maybe the PVP is what you like the most but you're just showing your bias if you think PVP was the primary focus of eso. PVP has always been a side experience for ESO.
I disagree that PvP was never marked as the primary core of eso.. It was. All 3 factions (AD/DC/EP) were fighting against each other to earn the right to the ruby throne in Cyrodiil until Molag Bal and Minnimacro ruined the party.https://youtu.be/qLdYM70QNdo?si=uEx3O2K-Sb5KyibO
You can disagree all you want but you're incorrect. Facts are it was listed as a feature it was never its primary focus. This is no different than world of Warcraft that shows the fights between the horde and the alliance and yet PVP has been secondary to the story arc of every expansion. It's the same for ESO.
A CGI trailer doesn't dictate gameplay. You seem to be forgetting when the game first came out the idea of the three factions was a story driven content. The PVP aspect was the smallest part of the game.
I guess it seems that maybe you might be a newer player because when ESO came out you prior to one tamriel you couldn't interact with the other faction until you hit 50 and beat the game and then you got cadwells quest to do the other factions story arcs. You were limited to the races of your faction and you were limited their story zones as you leveled. That was the friction in the trailers that was the non-pvp story of eso. You're trying to equate a storytelling CGI with the actual gameplay.
PVP in ESO has always been secondary to PVE. Every chapter released in this game has been PVE centric.
Marketing a conflict between three factions that does not mean PVP centric MMO. World of Warcraft had the same type of marketing. Hell it has more PVP content in it's expansions then ESO ever has had and world of Warcraft is still a PVE centric game. ESO expansions have all been story driven open world PVE content.4 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.3 -
RaikaNA✭✭✭✭✭
✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »You see this is a problem when you don't actually read the statement and comprehend what it said.
PvP was never marketed as the primary core of eso it was listed as a feature along with Rich story RPG game. You want further proof iPvP is not the primary focus of eso. Look at every single chapter release that the games come out with every single one focused on the story and the new dungeons. They weren't marketing the PVP and all the new features to PVP it was always about the story and the RPG element of the game.
I understand that maybe the PVP is what you like the most but you're just showing your bias if you think PVP was the primary focus of eso. PVP has always been a side experience for ESO.
I disagree that PvP was never marked as the primary core of eso.. It was. All 3 factions (AD/DC/EP) were fighting against each other to earn the right to the ruby throne in Cyrodiil until Molag Bal and Minnimacro ruined the party.https://youtu.be/qLdYM70QNdo?si=uEx3O2K-Sb5KyibO
You can disagree all you want but you're incorrect. Facts are it was listed as a feature it was never its primary focus. This is no different than world of Warcraft that shows the fights between the horde and the alliance and yet PVP has been secondary to the story arc of every expansion. It's the same for ESO.
A CGI trailer doesn't dictate gameplay. You seem to be forgetting when the game first came out the idea of the three factions was a story driven content. The PVP aspect was the smallest part of the game.
I guess it seems that maybe you might be a newer player because when ESO came out you prior to one tamriel you couldn't interact with the other faction until you hit 50 and beat the game and then you got cadwells quest to do the other factions story arcs. You were limited to the races of your faction and you were limited their story zones as you leveled. That was the friction in the trailers that was the non-pvp story of eso. You're trying to equate a storytelling CGI with the actual gameplay.
PVP in ESO has always been secondary to PVE. Every chapter released in this game has been PVE centric.
Marketing a conflict between three factions that does not mean PVP centric MMO. World of Warcraft had the same type of marketing. Hell it has more PVP content in it's expansions then ESO ever has had and world of Warcraft is still a PVE centric game. ESO expansions have all been story driven open world PVE content.
How am I incorrect when the first thing you do when you create your character is select a faction? Did you not see the Cinematic Trailers Bethesda released? Yes the trailer is supposed to dictate gameplay because its advertisment to attract players to the game. If it doesn't, then it's false advertising and deserves a frowny face. While PvP is the most neglected part of the game, it was a fundamental pillar of The Elder Scrolls Online from the very beginning. Developers intentionally designed it so that the three rival Alliances fought for control of the central region of Cyrodiil.
I'm far from being a new player. I've been an ESO member since September 5, 2013 so I pretty much know what I'm talking about. I was playing before One Tamriel came out.. back when you couldn't even play with your friends from other factions.
Cadwells quests make no sense at all. I've done at least 1 part of it, and couldn't do the rest because it was ridiculous. IT MADE NO SENSE that a person from AD is off doing another faction's story arc... if I wanted to do another faction story arc.. I would just create another character with that faction.
0 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.1 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
They let go half the staff but when you look at the staffing numbers it apparently is around some of the same numbers when ESO had the most success. Sounds like the studio had alot of bloat.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
PoveusRonin✭✭✭Vonnegut2506 wrote: »PoveusRonin wrote: »Vonnegut2506 wrote: »PoveusRonin wrote: »An MMO rarely dies simply because it runs out of players one morning. It dies through the gradual erosion of confidence. Players stop believing that their time, money and emotional investment will be respected. They may continue logging in because of friends, established characters, homes, guilds and affection for the world, but their relationship with the game changes from enthusiasm to endurance.
It dies due to gradual loss of players. It matters not if they have confidence if they continue to log in and play. If they are giving money to a company, the company will continue on the same path.New World began as a heavily PvP-focused sandbox and was subsequently redirected towards a more conventional PvE MMO. The released game retained systems designed for the original concept while lacking enough content and depth to satisfy the audience attracted by the new one. Territory wars were important but accessible mainly to selected company players. PvE existed but was repetitive, while its endgame progression was excessively grindy and repeatedly redesigned.
A game can fully succeed being PvP only. adding a PvE aspect would not have mattered if they had enough interest and compelling gameplay for the PvP crowd.
Care to point out the MMO's that are PvP only that are succeeding?
Care to point out where I said MMO?
Given that the exact wording you quoted mentioned New World being PvP-focused and then becoming a more conventional MMO -- hint, hint -- I assumed you knew they were speaking about MMO's.
I find it hilarious you think there is a single player Player versus player (PvP) game. Hint hint not needed.0 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
They let go half the staff but when you look at the staffing numbers it apparently is around some of the same numbers when ESO had the most success. Sounds like the studio had alot of bloat.
I think the problem is that when ESO had the most success, the team was 'mean and lean' and full of younger developers who were hungry for success. Right now, we have devs who are deeply demoralised and spending most of their time looking over their shoulders instead of what's in front of them.
It's like comparing the Spanish Soccer team who just won the World Cup with the Welsh team that didn't qualify: same number of players but very different results.5 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not the same genre, but Rainbow 6 Seige is over a decade old and still kicking, especially in an extremely crowded FPS genre… how? they did exactly what was suggested. Long ago, they ran a season called project health that literally paused content and did a deep dive on bugs and balance. IMO had they not done that, it would have fallen off quickly when many more AAA FPS’s came out, year after year.Edited by SneaK on 11 August 2026 02:54"IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
old_mufasa✭✭✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »You see this is a problem when you don't actually read the statement and comprehend what it said.
PvP was never marketed as the primary core of eso it was listed as a feature along with Rich story RPG game. You want further proof iPvP is not the primary focus of eso. Look at every single chapter release that the games come out with every single one focused on the story and the new dungeons. They weren't marketing the PVP and all the new features to PVP it was always about the story and the RPG element of the game.
I understand that maybe the PVP is what you like the most but you're just showing your bias if you think PVP was the primary focus of eso. PVP has always been a side experience for ESO.
I disagree that PvP was never marked as the primary core of eso.. It was. All 3 factions (AD/DC/EP) were fighting against each other to earn the right to the ruby throne in Cyrodiil until Molag Bal and Minnimacro ruined the party.https://youtu.be/qLdYM70QNdo?si=uEx3O2K-Sb5KyibO
You can disagree all you want but you're incorrect. Facts are it was listed as a feature it was never its primary focus. This is no different than world of Warcraft that shows the fights between the horde and the alliance and yet PVP has been secondary to the story arc of every expansion. It's the same for ESO.
A CGI trailer doesn't dictate gameplay. You seem to be forgetting when the game first came out the idea of the three factions was a story driven content. The PVP aspect was the smallest part of the game.
I guess it seems that maybe you might be a newer player because when ESO came out you prior to one tamriel you couldn't interact with the other faction until you hit 50 and beat the game and then you got cadwells quest to do the other factions story arcs. You were limited to the races of your faction and you were limited their story zones as you leveled. That was the friction in the trailers that was the non-pvp story of eso. You're trying to equate a storytelling CGI with the actual gameplay.
PVP in ESO has always been secondary to PVE. Every chapter released in this game has been PVE centric.
Marketing a conflict between three factions that does not mean PVP centric MMO. World of Warcraft had the same type of marketing. Hell it has more PVP content in it's expansions then ESO ever has had and world of Warcraft is still a PVE centric game. ESO expansions have all been story driven open world PVE content.
How am I incorrect when the first thing you do when you create your character is select a faction? Did you not see the Cinematic Trailers Bethesda released? Yes the trailer is supposed to dictate gameplay because its advertisment to attract players to the game. If it doesn't, then it's false advertising and deserves a frowny face. While PvP is the most neglected part of the game, it was a fundamental pillar of The Elder Scrolls Online from the very beginning. Developers intentionally designed it so that the three rival Alliances fought for control of the central region of Cyrodiil.
I'm far from being a new player. I've been an ESO member since September 5, 2013 so I pretty much know what I'm talking about. I was playing before One Tamriel came out.. back when you couldn't even play with your friends from other factions.
Cadwells quests make no sense at all. I've done at least 1 part of it, and couldn't do the rest because it was ridiculous. IT MADE NO SENSE that a person from AD is off doing another faction's story arc... if I wanted to do another faction story arc.. I would just create another character with that faction.
Are you being obstinate or just disingenuous?
You pick a faction in world of Warcraft right at the starting guess what it's a PVE centric game.
Just because you pick a faction doesn't mean the game is PVP centric or that it was the primary purpose of the game. You obviously only read the first part of what I had typed above because I answered you already.
So yeah you're wrong it was never a PVP center game in PvP was never the primary part of the game it was a MMO that was PVE centric that had some PVP.
The fact you went on some rant about cardwell's quest proves me right again because from the very beginning they had it where you can go around doing other faction quests in a PVE game. Why does that make sense because it was PVE centric dur..
I've been playing since day one. Not once was there PVP in the open world. If the game was a PVP center game there would have been PVP against other factions if they were in your zone and there's not. Everything you try to stay counters your argument that this game was pvp-centric in any way.
You can have faction conflicts in a single player game. So having factions does nothing for your argument. But the content does and the content is primarily PVE focused.
Also trailers CGI trailers in particular do not and are not relative to gameplay. CGI trailers are to help build the world. That's why they have this little label that says not indicative of gameplay when you go to watch them. The fact that you think CGI trailers are indicative of gameplay shows that you're either really gullible or just trying to pull anything you can to try to make your failing argument work.
3 -
old_mufasa✭✭✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.1 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
They let go half the staff but when you look at the staffing numbers it apparently is around some of the same numbers when ESO had the most success. Sounds like the studio had alot of bloat.
I think the problem is that when ESO had the most success, the team was 'mean and lean' and full of younger developers who were hungry for success. Right now, we have devs who are deeply demoralised and spending most of their time looking over their shoulders instead of what's in front of them.
It's like comparing the Spanish Soccer team who just won the World Cup with the Welsh team that didn't qualify: same number of players but very different results.
Couldn't disagree more. Why does being older mean they aren't hungry? Because someone is older does that mean they just don't care and aren't passionate? Some of the best games right now are coming out from retired game devs - age is irrelevant.
Bloat tends to do that to studios - 20% doing 80% of the work. Demoralized - why? Has the product been good? Based on the forums, the last big updates have been filled with nothing but bugs, live events not working, shoot just look at Vengence/PvP the leaderboards, the proc sets, rewards, break literally every single reset - why is it that hard to fix it?
Every single person should be looking over their shoulder in any job they have - it keeps you on your toes and keeps you from getting complacent. The moment someone gets complacent in a job quality dies. And no, I don't think people should have to crunch, work insane hours for min pay, I think there is a perfectly healthy balance of passion, productivity, incentive, all while being "mean and lean".
And this is before we even bring up AI in the conversation - you think the studio isn't using AI. I got news for ya.
Alot of people, no disrespect to you in, but you all just sound like NPCs saying the same talking points over and over with zero logic or facts backing it. You can have compassion for people being let go.. it sucks.. but it's clear near unlimited money and unlimited staff across the entire industry did not result in games becoming better.. one could argue it lead to the imposition of many studios and put us where we are now.
Just look at the protest video (trying to treed lightly here so I don't get hit by a mod).. all characteristics aside.. one of the quotes they said was "we make great games" so.. paraphrasing "let us go back to making games that define a generation." That person had been at the studio for 4 or 5 years - what great game did they make? The great game was made some 15-20 years ago and defined that generation.. nothing they have created has defined their generation in a positive way.
Last point - please no one hit me with another NPC line "but greedy billion dollar corpo Microsoft and their AI". Those are different areas of the company and it's brutally clear Xbox isn't making any returns. No one is entitled to keep the lights on to make bad games just because someone else has alot of money. Spoiler - they keep the lights on in other studios by not funding $400,000,000 bad games like Concord.
- xCatGuyEdited by LadyGP on 11 August 2026 13:20LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.0 -
old_mufasa✭✭✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.
That was a cross Zenni Max online not just ESO. You see this is the problem with all the misinformation. By the way they didn't actually release information on exactly from what departments these cuts were from so to sit there and say that people actually had the number they're making s*** up.
What we do know is that the numbers are currently staffed at the same level when the eso team created worthgar and Sumerset DLC chapters two of larger DLCs. This is actually official numbers that they've announced the rest is just speculation.
There was a massive amount of false information that came about the Microsoft game studios layoffs. For example you had people reporting that Microsoft hired foreigners to replace the 3,000 Americans (even though the 3,000 people who were let go weren't all Americans) fired under Microsoft game studios under the H1B Visa program. That was a total lie you could actually go look at Microsoft hirings and none were for Microsoft game studios the only people they are hiring for are for software engineers and for their AI departments but it didn't stop people from going on posting about it that American jobs were being let go to hire foreigners etc.
Game journalist go around reporting rumors as facts even rumors that they just make up out of thin air. They don't verify they don't use journalist integrity where you they're supposed to have three verifiable sources before reporting it. This is especially true against Microsoft.Edited by old_mufasa on 11 August 2026 14:181 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.
That was a cross Zenni Max online not just ESO. You see this is the problem with all the misinformation. By the way they didn't actually release information on exactly from what departments these cuts were from so to sit there and say that people actually had the number they're making s*** up.
What we do know is that the numbers are currently staffed at the same level when the eso team created worthgar and Sumerset DLC chapters two of larger DLCs. This is actually official numbers that they've announced the rest is just speculation.
There was a massive amount of false information that came about the Microsoft game studios layoffs. For example you had people reporting that Microsoft hired foreigners to replace the 3,000 Americans (even though the 3,000 people who were let go weren't all Americans) fired under Microsoft game studios under the H1B Visa program. That was a total lie you could actually go look at Microsoft hirings and none were for Microsoft game studios the only people they are hiring for are for software engineers and for their AI departments but it didn't stop people from going on posting about it that American jobs were being let go to hire foreigners etc.
Game journalist go around reporting rumors as facts even rumors that they just make up out of thin air. They don't verify they don't use journalist integrity where you they're supposed to have three verifiable sources before reporting it. This is especially true against Microsoft.
ZOS lost 213 people. I dont know what youre referring to about inaccurate data. This is verifiable.
Thinking theyre in a position to produce summerset level content is extreme copium at this point.1 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.
That was a cross Zenni Max online not just ESO. You see this is the problem with all the misinformation. By the way they didn't actually release information on exactly from what departments these cuts were from so to sit there and say that people actually had the number they're making s*** up.
What we do know is that the numbers are currently staffed at the same level when the eso team created worthgar and Sumerset DLC chapters two of larger DLCs. This is actually official numbers that they've announced the rest is just speculation.
There was a massive amount of false information that came about the Microsoft game studios layoffs. For example you had people reporting that Microsoft hired foreigners to replace the 3,000 Americans (even though the 3,000 people who were let go weren't all Americans) fired under Microsoft game studios under the H1B Visa program. That was a total lie you could actually go look at Microsoft hirings and none were for Microsoft game studios the only people they are hiring for are for software engineers and for their AI departments but it didn't stop people from going on posting about it that American jobs were being let go to hire foreigners etc.
Game journalist go around reporting rumors as facts even rumors that they just make up out of thin air. They don't verify they don't use journalist integrity where you they're supposed to have three verifiable sources before reporting it. This is especially true against Microsoft.
ZOS lost 213 people. I dont know what youre referring to about inaccurate data. This is verifiable.
Thinking theyre in a position to produce summerset level content is extreme copium at this point.
None of this changes the fact the studio has around 186 people right now which is comparable to their most successful content release schedule (2015 through 2018 that included the Morrowind chapter).
- xCatGuyEdited by LadyGP on 11 August 2026 15:42LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.
That was a cross Zenni Max online not just ESO. You see this is the problem with all the misinformation. By the way they didn't actually release information on exactly from what departments these cuts were from so to sit there and say that people actually had the number they're making s*** up.
What we do know is that the numbers are currently staffed at the same level when the eso team created worthgar and Sumerset DLC chapters two of larger DLCs. This is actually official numbers that they've announced the rest is just speculation.
There was a massive amount of false information that came about the Microsoft game studios layoffs. For example you had people reporting that Microsoft hired foreigners to replace the 3,000 Americans (even though the 3,000 people who were let go weren't all Americans) fired under Microsoft game studios under the H1B Visa program. That was a total lie you could actually go look at Microsoft hirings and none were for Microsoft game studios the only people they are hiring for are for software engineers and for their AI departments but it didn't stop people from going on posting about it that American jobs were being let go to hire foreigners etc.
Game journalist go around reporting rumors as facts even rumors that they just make up out of thin air. They don't verify they don't use journalist integrity where you they're supposed to have three verifiable sources before reporting it. This is especially true against Microsoft.
ZOS lost 213 people. I dont know what youre referring to about inaccurate data. This is verifiable.
Thinking theyre in a position to produce summerset level content is extreme copium at this point.
None of this changes the fact the studio has around 186 people right now which is comparable to their most successful content release schedule (2015 through 2018 that included the Morrowind chapter).
- xCatGuy
That might be relevant if it was 2015, but its 2026. The senior talent is gone now. The difference in morale is a polar opposite. The studios future is in question to put it best - theyre likely to be supporting BGS with ES. The ESO development of 2026, isnt like 2015 either.
Its completely unrealistic to expect youre going to get summerset level content next year. Their first goal next year is to deliver what theyre failing to deliver this year. This inference being tossed around that their size matches the past is grossly misused and misleading.
Its not 2015 at zos. Game dev is different, the game itseld is different, and the parent company is different. Context is important.
2 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.
That was a cross Zenni Max online not just ESO. You see this is the problem with all the misinformation. By the way they didn't actually release information on exactly from what departments these cuts were from so to sit there and say that people actually had the number they're making s*** up.
What we do know is that the numbers are currently staffed at the same level when the eso team created worthgar and Sumerset DLC chapters two of larger DLCs. This is actually official numbers that they've announced the rest is just speculation.
There was a massive amount of false information that came about the Microsoft game studios layoffs. For example you had people reporting that Microsoft hired foreigners to replace the 3,000 Americans (even though the 3,000 people who were let go weren't all Americans) fired under Microsoft game studios under the H1B Visa program. That was a total lie you could actually go look at Microsoft hirings and none were for Microsoft game studios the only people they are hiring for are for software engineers and for their AI departments but it didn't stop people from going on posting about it that American jobs were being let go to hire foreigners etc.
Game journalist go around reporting rumors as facts even rumors that they just make up out of thin air. They don't verify they don't use journalist integrity where you they're supposed to have three verifiable sources before reporting it. This is especially true against Microsoft.
ZOS lost 213 people. I dont know what youre referring to about inaccurate data. This is verifiable.
Thinking theyre in a position to produce summerset level content is extreme copium at this point.
None of this changes the fact the studio has around 186 people right now which is comparable to their most successful content release schedule (2015 through 2018 that included the Morrowind chapter).
- xCatGuy
That might be relevant if it was 2015, but its 2026. The senior talent is gone now. The difference in morale is a polar opposite. The studios future is in question to put it best - theyre likely to be supporting BGS with ES. The ESO development of 2026, isnt like 2015 either.
Its completely unrealistic to expect youre going to get summerset level content next year. Their first goal next year is to deliver what theyre failing to deliver this year. This inference being tossed around that their size matches the past is grossly misused and misleading.
Its not 2015 at zos. Game dev is different, the game itseld is different, and the parent company is different. Context is important.
Context is important, you're totally right.
We have more hardware than in 2015, we have many tools now that make game development significantly easier and less time consuming. We also have AI that can handle a lot of the busy work and backlog tasks no human wants to waste their time on.
I don't think anyone is expecting endless content - they shouldn't if they are - as this game has been riding the tight line of maintenance mode for years.
Morale is low, sure, a lot of their friends got let go - that happens in every single industry. It's leaderships job to fix that.
Blaming everything on the parent company is exhausting. Zos has walked themself into this position for many years now, only recently have they decided they should be more transparent and open to player feedback.
One could make a case, too little too late.
- xCatguyLadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.2 -
old_mufasa✭✭✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.
That was a cross Zenni Max online not just ESO. You see this is the problem with all the misinformation. By the way they didn't actually release information on exactly from what departments these cuts were from so to sit there and say that people actually had the number they're making s*** up.
What we do know is that the numbers are currently staffed at the same level when the eso team created worthgar and Sumerset DLC chapters two of larger DLCs. This is actually official numbers that they've announced the rest is just speculation.
There was a massive amount of false information that came about the Microsoft game studios layoffs. For example you had people reporting that Microsoft hired foreigners to replace the 3,000 Americans (even though the 3,000 people who were let go weren't all Americans) fired under Microsoft game studios under the H1B Visa program. That was a total lie you could actually go look at Microsoft hirings and none were for Microsoft game studios the only people they are hiring for are for software engineers and for their AI departments but it didn't stop people from going on posting about it that American jobs were being let go to hire foreigners etc.
Game journalist go around reporting rumors as facts even rumors that they just make up out of thin air. They don't verify they don't use journalist integrity where you they're supposed to have three verifiable sources before reporting it. This is especially true against Microsoft.
ZOS lost 213 people. I dont know what youre referring to about inaccurate data. This is verifiable.
Thinking theyre in a position to produce summerset level content is extreme copium at this point.
None of this changes the fact the studio has around 186 people right now which is comparable to their most successful content release schedule (2015 through 2018 that included the Morrowind chapter).
- xCatGuy
That might be relevant if it was 2015, but its 2026. The senior talent is gone now. The difference in morale is a polar opposite. The studios future is in question to put it best - theyre likely to be supporting BGS with ES. The ESO development of 2026, isnt like 2015 either.
Its completely unrealistic to expect youre going to get summerset level content next year. Their first goal next year is to deliver what theyre failing to deliver this year. This inference being tossed around that their size matches the past is grossly misused and misleading.
Its not 2015 at zos. Game dev is different, the game itseld is different, and the parent company is different. Context is important.
You do realize that you're argument is counterproductive to your assertions.
If they had twice the number of people and we're not putting out twice the content then those people are superfluous.
Because we have not been getting twice the content then we were back when Worthgar and Sumerset were released.
In fact the whole change to the battle pass system where we no longer get chapters and fully-fledged dungeons every year would be a degrade in the amount of content and they made that choice while they still had those other employees.
You have other game studios for example path of exiles 2 which has released more classes and has had more total rework of classes in a year then ESO has in The last 5 years. And mind you they have 167 employees that are supporting two different games.
When you have to take 6 months to revamp one class then you have to ask yourself what are the developers doing with all the people they have and the cash that they're getting. We're not talking about a brand new class and having to make sure it works with all the new gear we're talking about just changing stat lines for one class and it took them 6 months. And now running away another 6 months to get a change for the warden.
So if you go by that they've had by your logic twice the number of people with less content and then you wonder why Microsoft would let them go. Also of course there's going to be a delay on stuff when you have layoffs because they have to restructure it.
Also having a bigger team necessarily doesn't mean a more efficient team the larger studios get the more bureaucracy happens. Things take longer to do because there's so many different teams that you're having coordinate with and they're so large that it ends up actually making things less efficient.
As far as senior team members being let go there's probably a reason for that. My guess is one they're being paid a lot more than newer employees. To a job like this constantly is pushing creativity and when you've been in the same game for 17 years creativity is probably starting to become harder. New ideas are harder to come by and therefore things slow down so having new faces come in with new ideas and probably have more energy for those ideas there's probably why they let the senior people go.
Also over the years they have gotten more tools and more Hands-On time with their game engine and and such that production should be faster with more content not slower with less content especially with twice the number of people so your argument really isn't holding water.
The irony is that it's seems you can't cope with the reality that ESO performed better with a smaller team than it is now.1 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »moderatelyfatman wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »This is not New World. And if that is what you want it to look like, you are asking for an end of service date.
You think we aren't already there?
Not quite. I suspect that by laying off half the staff, ESO may actually be more profitable now than it was a year ago.
I think the most likely scenario short term scenario would be for the game to go into maintenance mode for 2-3 years while the staff at ZOS go work on Elderscrolls 6. With no other recent Elderscrolls content other than another rerelease of Skyrim, ESO will still have a customer base.
After ES6 is released, then things could become tricky to predict. A very successful ES6 game would certainly pull players away from ESO in the short term but would also help enormously refresh the IP in the long term and ESO would likely benefit from this.
It wasn't even half it was 20%. The thing is is that the 20% was taken from departments that didn't need the staffing they had such as they actually had a PR department which got gutted.
This all stems from a woman who got fired who had been there for like 17 years but she was in charge of their PR department she says half of eso was fired and then had to do a correction that half of her team was fired not of eso's group overall. But nobody reported on the correction only the initial report.
People have reviewed the actual numbers. They lost about 260 staff members. This isnt 20%.. half is more accurate.
That was a cross Zenni Max online not just ESO. You see this is the problem with all the misinformation. By the way they didn't actually release information on exactly from what departments these cuts were from so to sit there and say that people actually had the number they're making s*** up.
What we do know is that the numbers are currently staffed at the same level when the eso team created worthgar and Sumerset DLC chapters two of larger DLCs. This is actually official numbers that they've announced the rest is just speculation.
There was a massive amount of false information that came about the Microsoft game studios layoffs. For example you had people reporting that Microsoft hired foreigners to replace the 3,000 Americans (even though the 3,000 people who were let go weren't all Americans) fired under Microsoft game studios under the H1B Visa program. That was a total lie you could actually go look at Microsoft hirings and none were for Microsoft game studios the only people they are hiring for are for software engineers and for their AI departments but it didn't stop people from going on posting about it that American jobs were being let go to hire foreigners etc.
Game journalist go around reporting rumors as facts even rumors that they just make up out of thin air. They don't verify they don't use journalist integrity where you they're supposed to have three verifiable sources before reporting it. This is especially true against Microsoft.
ZOS lost 213 people. I dont know what youre referring to about inaccurate data. This is verifiable.
Thinking theyre in a position to produce summerset level content is extreme copium at this point.
None of this changes the fact the studio has around 186 people right now which is comparable to their most successful content release schedule (2015 through 2018 that included the Morrowind chapter).
- xCatGuy
That might be relevant if it was 2015, but its 2026. The senior talent is gone now. The difference in morale is a polar opposite. The studios future is in question to put it best - theyre likely to be supporting BGS with ES. The ESO development of 2026, isnt like 2015 either.
Its completely unrealistic to expect youre going to get summerset level content next year. Their first goal next year is to deliver what theyre failing to deliver this year. This inference being tossed around that their size matches the past is grossly misused and misleading.
Its not 2015 at zos. Game dev is different, the game itseld is different, and the parent company is different. Context is important.
You do realize that you're argument is counterproductive to your assertions.
If they had twice the number of people and we're not putting out twice the content then those people are superfluous.
Because we have not been getting twice the content then we were back when Worthgar and Sumerset were released.
In fact the whole change to the battle pass system where we no longer get chapters and fully-fledged dungeons every year would be a degrade in the amount of content and they made that choice while they still had those other employees.
You have other game studios for example path of exiles 2 which has released more classes and has had more total rework of classes in a year then ESO has in The last 5 years. And mind you they have 167 employees that are supporting two different games.
When you have to take 6 months to revamp one class then you have to ask yourself what are the developers doing with all the people they have and the cash that they're getting. We're not talking about a brand new class and having to make sure it works with all the new gear we're talking about just changing stat lines for one class and it took them 6 months. And now running away another 6 months to get a change for the warden.
So if you go by that they've had by your logic twice the number of people with less content and then you wonder why Microsoft would let them go. Also of course there's going to be a delay on stuff when you have layoffs because they have to restructure it.
Also having a bigger team necessarily doesn't mean a more efficient team the larger studios get the more bureaucracy happens. Things take longer to do because there's so many different teams that you're having coordinate with and they're so large that it ends up actually making things less efficient.
As far as senior team members being let go there's probably a reason for that. My guess is one they're being paid a lot more than newer employees. To a job like this constantly is pushing creativity and when you've been in the same game for 17 years creativity is probably starting to become harder. New ideas are harder to come by and therefore things slow down so having new faces come in with new ideas and probably have more energy for those ideas there's probably why they let the senior people go.
Also over the years they have gotten more tools and more Hands-On time with their game engine and and such that production should be faster with more content not slower with less content especially with twice the number of people so your argument really isn't holding water.
The irony is that it's seems you can't cope with the reality that ESO performed better with a smaller team than it is now.
Bingo.
The classic 20% - 80% rule. As more people get hired on, more middle management roles get hired, scrum masters get brought on, people get complacent.. start to become lazy, etc etc.
Smaller teams often produce items quicker and at a better end result than bloated teams - there is no where to hide so the lazy/poor work ethic people get exposed right away.
- xCatGuyLadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well theyll be super efficient by July 2027 as the trimming continues. I wont get in the way of your copium trips here. I would love to see a rebound for ZoS. But if you think maelstrom arena level content is coming you've not been watching what's going on with this game.
My original point to Mustafa is it wasnt 'only 20%' of the studio staff. Opening your arguments with misinformation isnt really the greatest indicator for a sound argument. Let me know when the maelstrom/ black rose prison level content hits next year though. Super excited for it.
Im sure having the first 6 month stretch in over a decade without a major update will assure they maintain steady numbers for the fiscal year and lock in future growth we know is coming!3 -
RaikaNA✭✭✭✭✭
✭old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »old_mufasa wrote: »You see this is a problem when you don't actually read the statement and comprehend what it said.
PvP was never marketed as the primary core of eso it was listed as a feature along with Rich story RPG game. You want further proof iPvP is not the primary focus of eso. Look at every single chapter release that the games come out with every single one focused on the story and the new dungeons. They weren't marketing the PVP and all the new features to PVP it was always about the story and the RPG element of the game.
I understand that maybe the PVP is what you like the most but you're just showing your bias if you think PVP was the primary focus of eso. PVP has always been a side experience for ESO.
I disagree that PvP was never marked as the primary core of eso.. It was. All 3 factions (AD/DC/EP) were fighting against each other to earn the right to the ruby throne in Cyrodiil until Molag Bal and Minnimacro ruined the party.https://youtu.be/qLdYM70QNdo?si=uEx3O2K-Sb5KyibO
You can disagree all you want but you're incorrect. Facts are it was listed as a feature it was never its primary focus. This is no different than world of Warcraft that shows the fights between the horde and the alliance and yet PVP has been secondary to the story arc of every expansion. It's the same for ESO.
A CGI trailer doesn't dictate gameplay. You seem to be forgetting when the game first came out the idea of the three factions was a story driven content. The PVP aspect was the smallest part of the game.
I guess it seems that maybe you might be a newer player because when ESO came out you prior to one tamriel you couldn't interact with the other faction until you hit 50 and beat the game and then you got cadwells quest to do the other factions story arcs. You were limited to the races of your faction and you were limited their story zones as you leveled. That was the friction in the trailers that was the non-pvp story of eso. You're trying to equate a storytelling CGI with the actual gameplay.
PVP in ESO has always been secondary to PVE. Every chapter released in this game has been PVE centric.
Marketing a conflict between three factions that does not mean PVP centric MMO. World of Warcraft had the same type of marketing. Hell it has more PVP content in it's expansions then ESO ever has had and world of Warcraft is still a PVE centric game. ESO expansions have all been story driven open world PVE content.
How am I incorrect when the first thing you do when you create your character is select a faction? Did you not see the Cinematic Trailers Bethesda released? Yes the trailer is supposed to dictate gameplay because its advertisment to attract players to the game. If it doesn't, then it's false advertising and deserves a frowny face. While PvP is the most neglected part of the game, it was a fundamental pillar of The Elder Scrolls Online from the very beginning. Developers intentionally designed it so that the three rival Alliances fought for control of the central region of Cyrodiil.
I'm far from being a new player. I've been an ESO member since September 5, 2013 so I pretty much know what I'm talking about. I was playing before One Tamriel came out.. back when you couldn't even play with your friends from other factions.
Cadwells quests make no sense at all. I've done at least 1 part of it, and couldn't do the rest because it was ridiculous. IT MADE NO SENSE that a person from AD is off doing another faction's story arc... if I wanted to do another faction story arc.. I would just create another character with that faction.
Are you being obstinate or just disingenuous?
You pick a faction in world of Warcraft right at the starting guess what it's a PVE centric game.
Just because you pick a faction doesn't mean the game is PVP centric or that it was the primary purpose of the game. You obviously only read the first part of what I had typed above because I answered you already.
So yeah you're wrong it was never a PVP center game in PvP was never the primary part of the game it was a MMO that was PVE centric that had some PVP.
The fact you went on some rant about cardwell's quest proves me right again because from the very beginning they had it where you can go around doing other faction quests in a PVE game. Why does that make sense because it was PVE centric dur..
I've been playing since day one. Not once was there PVP in the open world. If the game was a PVP center game there would have been PVP against other factions if they were in your zone and there's not. Everything you try to stay counters your argument that this game was pvp-centric in any way.
You can have faction conflicts in a single player game. So having factions does nothing for your argument. But the content does and the content is primarily PVE focused.
Also trailers CGI trailers in particular do not and are not relative to gameplay. CGI trailers are to help build the world. That's why they have this little label that says not indicative of gameplay when you go to watch them. The fact that you think CGI trailers are indicative of gameplay shows that you're either really gullible or just trying to pull anything you can to try to make your failing argument work.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Since I don't play World of Warcraft, I can't make any comments about the gameplay. I don't know the lore or anything about the game as I do with this game, ESO. Cyrodill is a huge part of the storyline in ESO.. The ruby throne is empty, and each faction is fighting to gain the right to rule all of Tamriel.
The reason behind the zero PvP in the open world is that ZOS missed out on the perfect opportunity, whereas the developers from Amazon did not... New World was the perfect game... from inside a settlement you can flag up for PvP and go open world to fight other players and capture flags for open world PvP events... ZOS should have done something similar to this... but they did not, and that was their own undoing.0