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Why hasn't DK been nerfed yet?
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Luna_the_Rat✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
[snipped for baiting]
Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on 16 August 2026 14:022 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If people here wanna be defeatist and take zero suggestions to better themselves thats not my problem and stating ways to improve isnt trolling. Saying to block, oh i cant be expected to block when needed always.
Of course not, the game is supposed to have counterplay, but you block you'll die less. Say to raise your crit resistance, oh thats not good enough to prevent death alone. Of course not, but it helps. rallying cry literally exists for the people who have trouble with getting burst by people running monomyth and crit builds for high burst. Blocking, crit resistances, and healing burst keeps you alive.
If you're a cyrodiil regular you're used to it and its why people like hev never got hit with something like this. The stuff yall are complaining you cant do most greyhost pvpers have already long since adapted to. Especially the sorc players with their immense damage shield spams.
Idk what to tell yall, but argumentum ad nauseam isnt gonna convince the population of players that came back because of the dk refresh that they shouldnt wait for warden's before thinking about major class nerfs, especially with class masteries right there to smooth over balancing issues.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
[snip]
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on 16 August 2026 14:03Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...1 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
The “people in these threads just want DK nerfed for no reason” argument is getting pretty tired, especially when we’ve already explained multiple times why the ability is a problem.
You can disagree with the arguments, but pretending there haven’t been actual reasons given and reducing everyone’s position to “they’re salty” is just a strawman. Nobody is asking for DK to be nerfed for no reason. The entire discussion has been about specific mechanics, the lack of meaningful counterplay, and the disproportionate results they can produce.
If you haven’t absorbed any of that by now, repeating “they just want DK nerfed” doesn’t really strengthen your position—it just avoids addressing the arguments that have already been made because you have a weak position.
1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
The “people in these threads just want DK nerfed for no reason” argument is getting pretty tired, especially when we’ve already explained multiple times why the ability is a problem.
You can disagree with the arguments, but pretending there haven’t been actual reasons given and reducing everyone’s position to “they’re salty” is just a strawman. Nobody is asking for DK to be nerfed for no reason. The entire discussion has been about specific mechanics, the lack of meaningful counterplay, and the disproportionate results they can produce.
If you haven’t absorbed any of that by now, repeating “they just want DK nerfed” doesn’t really strengthen your position—it just avoids addressing the arguments that have already been made because you have a weak position.
Ive given actual solutions and that gets ignored too so we're even, for some reason altering dk masteries and buffing other class masteries is ignored, probably because these players dont want balance they just want dk gutted.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
[snip]
LOL
Yeah this guy is not an authority figure on what does and doesn't need to be nerfed.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on 16 August 2026 14:043 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
LOL
Yeah this guy is not an authority figure on what does and doesn't need to be nerfed.
You turned down the duel after going offline for a reason lol your whole team was busy parsing on me with no damage and three healers behind you xD I think I do pretty well fighting solo against groups with three healers.
What are you talking about? I'm not in the BG nor is anyone I know. You constantly just make things up. I play at higher MMRs I recognize none of these people, sorry lol
Also if you are challenging someone to a duel after you lose a BG that tells me so much about you as a player. No wonder you don't want DK nerfed.Edited by NovelliESO on 10 August 2026 19:442 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
LOL
Yeah this guy is not an authority figure on what does and doesn't need to be nerfed.
As I said it was a game vs three healers lol, and its the worst game i had all day, but hey if that makes you feel better
I do quite well in the game, trying to shame me for two kills three deaths vs a team with three healers is pretty funny
Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...1 -
SandandStars✭✭✭✭✭AND IMAGINE playing a DK in PVP right now, say, a battleground, where you ignore the objectives entirely and just run around mashing that whip button (oh, and recharging your sustain at will).
You finish the match with 34-2-19 k/d ratio, somewhere near the bottom of your team on points.
Your 2 deaths were from when you actually tried to fight another DK or Werewolf, but then you left them alone and went about your business killing 'plars, necros, wardens & arcanists. Not so much the sorcs, because sometimes a skilled sorc might kill you.
[snipped to remove back and forth]Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on 16 August 2026 14:071 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They cant play objective if they're dead. Not everyone needs to go for objectives on the team.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Only a trashcan would come into a thread and try to defend a 41k whip.2 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?3 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely guttedZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Pureclass brother, I never subclassed, even during subclass meta.0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You say chains already has this, I say you no longer need that annoying skill, plus with the mastery it lasts longer, puts major protection on your front and back bar from activation which eliminates the cost of monomyth while you're whipping... its drastically better than relying on chains and frees up a skill slot depending on your build.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Pureclass brother, I never subclassed, even during subclass meta.
Oh yea? Maybe mistook you for another player then, my b.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
Yeah don't even know what you're trying to do here, this is just completely off topic and unintelligible. I don't think anyone here is arguing for any ball group buffs and most want shields nerfed, and guess what, they are. Your logic is just as bad as bardoks, just because you didn't experience it doesn't make it the case, if you wanna fight my group of 8 you'll easily be hit with at least a 30k whip regardless of what you want to build into unless you are just a block tank or in a % dmg mitigation ult.
No actual substantive argument ever from this side, it's very telling
If I try to solo your comped group of 8 where you all have lots of shielding, healing, multiple sourced damage buffs, and multiple sourced debuffs, One of your dks(you need some non dks in group to source all these different buffs) might land a 30k whip on me, DKs needs to be nerfed. Got it.
Hilariously wrong and bad faith engaging with what was said, but it's to be expected when you come on the forums and lie constantly.
Your original point, and this is a direct quote was " I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh"
I tell you I could hit you with a 30k whip inside an 8 man, keep in mind this is less than the max of 12. Now you are back pedaling and acting like that is my entire pint when my point was to prove your 17k number as being extreme was dead wrong. But sure, run from the point because you are aware logically you can't engage. Very telling.
To add on, DK needs to be nerfed because no other class in the game can reach the numbers a DK can, while also having access to the best CC in the game, and the best regen skill in the game ,and arguably the best class mastery in the game. Want to try a different line of argumentation or do you want to say something as fact from an anecdote, get your anecdote shot down, and then retreat to a strawman?
Still not proving anything. A 4 man comped group can achieve ballgroup status by just applying the same busted techniques the 12 mans use.
I've never seen a whip land for over 17k on me. If you think you can land a 30k on me with your group giving you all these buffs and debuffs sourced from other classes in conjunction as a team and use that as evidence that dk is overtuned. True.1 -
MeridiaFavorsMe✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely gutted
Molten whip has the highest direct damage tooltip in the game, even compared to direct damage ultimates. You have zero reason to complain about any nerf that hits this ability.
If an ability is doing damage well beyond what it's intended to do, you don't fix that by buffing class masteries for other classes. You fix the ability that's actually causing the problem. Imagine the balancing nightmare of trying to buff every other class enough to compensate for one ability being overtuned. What a dumb suggestion.1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely gutted
Molten whip has the highest direct damage tooltip in the game, even compared to direct damage ultimates. You have zero reason to complain about any nerf that hits this ability.
If an ability is doing damage well beyond what it's intended to do, you don't fix that by buffing class masteries for other classes. You fix the ability that's actually causing the problem. Imagine the balancing nightmare of trying to buff every other class enough to compensate for one ability being overtuned. What a dumb suggestion.
Im not complaining about it im saying that if you want a nerf, the class masteries is the way to go, as it no longer deals additional damage done after the whip stacks are built to 3 like it used to. They "re contextualized" the damage by putting more sources for it in masteries.
Nowhere did I say i was mad for that or wanted more damage. I was actually arguing dk class masteries should be nerfed.
Again if people think this is not enough, they just want dk guttedZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely gutted
Are you even reading my posts? I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to reply to you when you won't even show me the respect to read my posts before replying. I already addressed the major berserk from class masteries. Reread my post and try again.
I read it, and did you read mine? You dont need chains with lead from the front which gives the whole group both major protection and major berserk every single time we ult. Its much better than chains which is a wonky and costly skill, and now you dont have to bother with it.
Also you talk about respect but all youve done is insult and belittle
I'm giving you the same level of respect you're giving me. Reread my post again, because you've somehow missed my point entirely.
You're still making a bad argument because they aren't going to nerf class masteries. That doesn't fix the problem with molten whip, which is the actual issue we're discussing. If they did nerf class masteries, it would nerf all of DK's abilities rather than addressing the one ability that's causing the problem.
Targeted nerfs are better than trying to nerf the entire class's damage to compensate for one ability being overtuned.1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The fact that i've stated again and again i'd be okay with class masteries being nerfed or even removed actually for dk and people are taking this as me saying the opposite or arguing against it is exactly why im here in this thread in the first place
These forums are always begging for nerfs, not balance, they just want whatever build makes them mad punished and its a never ending cycleZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
SandandStars✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »They cant play objective if they're dead. Not everyone needs to go for objectives on the team.
Lerp logic.
That's what Deathmatch is for.
A solid K/D in Deathmatch is legitimate.
Low scoring/high K/D players in objective modes are bottom feeders.
They're the ones who will never grab a chaos ball or carry a relic.
There's a point system for each game for a reason.
I really wish they'd bring back a BG cue for Deathmatch only. But then, of course you'd still have the WWs and DKs who would avoid the Deathmatch because they feel better about their inflated K/Ds in objective modes. C'est la vie.
1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely gutted
Molten whip has the highest direct damage tooltip in the game, even compared to direct damage ultimates. You have zero reason to complain about any nerf that hits this ability.
If an ability is doing damage well beyond what it's intended to do, you don't fix that by buffing class masteries for other classes. You fix the ability that's actually causing the problem. Imagine the balancing nightmare of trying to buff every other class enough to compensate for one ability being overtuned. What a dumb suggestion.
Im not complaining about it im saying that if you want a nerf, the class masteries is the way to go, as it no longer deals additional damage done after the whip stacks are built to 3 like it used to. They "re contextualized" the damage by putting more sources for it in masteries.
Nowhere did I say i was mad for that or wanted more damage. I was actually arguing dk class masteries should be nerfed.
Again if people think this is not enough, they just want dk gutted
The reason you don't care if class masteries get nerfed or removed is pretty obvious: you're subclassing ardent flame specifically to abuse molten whip. You're not relying on DK's class masteries to make the build work in the first place.
If you can simply drop the DK masteries and still have the same problem because molten whip remains overtuned, that pretty much proves the point we've been making. The problem is the ability itself, not the class masteries.
And calling everyone who disagrees with you “begging for nerfs” doesn't change that. We're asking for a targeted nerf to the ability that's causing the problem, rather than gutting unrelated parts of the class to compensate for it.0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SandandStars wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »They cant play objective if they're dead. Not everyone needs to go for objectives on the team.
Lerp logic.
That's what Deathmatch is for.
A solid K/D in Deathmatch is legitimate.
Low scoring/high K/D players in objective modes are bottom feeders.
They're the ones who will never grab a chaos ball or carry a relic.
There's a point system for each game for a reason.
I really wish they'd bring back a BG cue for Deathmatch only. But then, of course you'd still have the WWs and DKs who would avoid the Deathmatch because they feel better about their inflated K/Ds in objective modes. C'est la vie.
You actually think wws and dks would avoid death match xD They are dominating death match and i was doing just fine in them, just didnt bother to snap a pic because i dont need to. I just pulled the next random game i did after that person messaged me offline and dodged a duel to show he's mistaken.
Deathmatch also should be about killing not stacking 3 healers in a group to hide behind, which is why my 2 mil damage only netted two kills.Edited by BardokRedSnow on 10 August 2026 20:26Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
Yeah don't even know what you're trying to do here, this is just completely off topic and unintelligible. I don't think anyone here is arguing for any ball group buffs and most want shields nerfed, and guess what, they are. Your logic is just as bad as bardoks, just because you didn't experience it doesn't make it the case, if you wanna fight my group of 8 you'll easily be hit with at least a 30k whip regardless of what you want to build into unless you are just a block tank or in a % dmg mitigation ult.
No actual substantive argument ever from this side, it's very telling
If I try to solo your comped group of 8 where you all have lots of shielding, healing, multiple sourced damage buffs, and multiple sourced debuffs, One of your dks(you need some non dks in group to source all these different buffs) might land a 30k whip on me, DKs needs to be nerfed. Got it.
Hilariously wrong and bad faith engaging with what was said, but it's to be expected when you come on the forums and lie constantly.
Your original point, and this is a direct quote was " I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh"
I tell you I could hit you with a 30k whip inside an 8 man, keep in mind this is less than the max of 12. Now you are back pedaling and acting like that is my entire pint when my point was to prove your 17k number as being extreme was dead wrong. But sure, run from the point because you are aware logically you can't engage. Very telling.
To add on, DK needs to be nerfed because no other class in the game can reach the numbers a DK can, while also having access to the best CC in the game, and the best regen skill in the game ,and arguably the best class mastery in the game. Want to try a different line of argumentation or do you want to say something as fact from an anecdote, get your anecdote shot down, and then retreat to a strawman?
Still not proving anything. A 4 man comped group can achieve ballgroup status by just applying the same busted techniques the 12 mans use.
I've never seen a whip land for over 17k on me. If you think you can land a 30k on me with your group giving you all these buffs and debuffs sourced from other classes in conjunction as a team and use that as evidence that dk is overtuned. True.
I am proving that your 17k is wrong. That was the point of my response. How can you not understand that when it's been stated multiple times. Here is the flow of conversation since apparently you are having trouble reading.
You claim you've never been hit by a whip above 17k and that even against ballgroups with loads of buffs at the extreme end it won't and you get hit on average for 7-9k.
I tell you my group, smaller than a full 12 man, can hit you with a 30k whip easily, making your claim a bad anecdote.
You move the goal post and then try to argue that this doesn't make it unbalanced, I never said it did, that wasn't my point.
We are now back here, and you are once again claiming that doesn't make it unbalanced.
Is it that hard to follow a conversation?Edited by NovelliESO on 10 August 2026 20:290 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely gutted
Molten whip has the highest direct damage tooltip in the game, even compared to direct damage ultimates. You have zero reason to complain about any nerf that hits this ability.
If an ability is doing damage well beyond what it's intended to do, you don't fix that by buffing class masteries for other classes. You fix the ability that's actually causing the problem. Imagine the balancing nightmare of trying to buff every other class enough to compensate for one ability being overtuned. What a dumb suggestion.
Im not complaining about it im saying that if you want a nerf, the class masteries is the way to go, as it no longer deals additional damage done after the whip stacks are built to 3 like it used to. They "re contextualized" the damage by putting more sources for it in masteries.
Nowhere did I say i was mad for that or wanted more damage. I was actually arguing dk class masteries should be nerfed.
Again if people think this is not enough, they just want dk gutted
The reason you don't care if class masteries get nerfed or removed is pretty obvious: you're subclassing ardent flame
Hun, let me stop you right there. I hate subclassing and i stopped subclassing the minute they made pure dk playable in subclassing meta. Im not subclassing my dk, he's pure and will stay pure unless they once again make subclassing the only viable way to pvp decentlyEdited by BardokRedSnow on 10 August 2026 20:29Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely gutted
Molten whip has the highest direct damage tooltip in the game, even compared to direct damage ultimates. You have zero reason to complain about any nerf that hits this ability.
If an ability is doing damage well beyond what it's intended to do, you don't fix that by buffing class masteries for other classes. You fix the ability that's actually causing the problem. Imagine the balancing nightmare of trying to buff every other class enough to compensate for one ability being overtuned. What a dumb suggestion.
Im not complaining about it im saying that if you want a nerf, the class masteries is the way to go, as it no longer deals additional damage done after the whip stacks are built to 3 like it used to. They "re contextualized" the damage by putting more sources for it in masteries.
Nowhere did I say i was mad for that or wanted more damage. I was actually arguing dk class masteries should be nerfed.
Again if people think this is not enough, they just want dk gutted
The reason you don't care if class masteries get nerfed or removed is pretty obvious: you're subclassing ardent flame
Hun, let me stop you right there. I hate subclassing and i stopped subclassing the minute they made pure dk playable in subclassing meta. Im not subclassing my dk, he's pure and will stay pure unless they once again make subclassing the only viable way to pvp decently
Why would they nerf class masteries when its molten whip that is causing the issue?0 -
MeridiaFavorsMe✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Or you can hide behind three healers and whisper me offline.Luna_the_Rat wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yep, going to have to agree with Bardok on this. I regularly pvp as stage 3 - 4 vampire, dk and non dk. I've never been hit by a whip for more than 17k at the most extreme end(Ballgroup with loads of buffs and debuffs present... like a pve raid group huh). And even the occasional non-ballgroup ones that can hit me that hard, it still takes two of them coordinating ult dump focusing me to achieve that. The vast majority of hits I see are in the 7 - 9k range.
The 40k once in a lifetime whip vs
12 ballgroup members with a damage shield larger then a permablock necro in goliath form as an active emperor buffing the health pool, still not getting close to topping 120k, layered off a 57k base health underneath it. And there's 40k health dds in that group landing 50k 1gcd bursts sheltered by 50k -120k damage shields at all times.
I see you out there makin dk look silly on your subclass build also so im not surprised you know
Meanwhile someone messaged me from the forums from a bg game where they sat behind three healers and are talkin trash, i did 2 mil damage and they healed through it all and are calling me trash and messaging me while offline so i cant respond back xD
the people in these threads are just salty and want dk nerfed Just BecauseTM
Hold your L and whine more.
If a 2 kill 3 death match is the worst L i take i think im doin ok lol
Especially when that 2 kill 3 deaths match had me doin 2 mil damage against a team with 3 healers XD Sorry but thats not enough to embarrass me
A lot of excuses, but little talent.
Then why'd you turn down the duel request after appearing offline so I couldnt respond?
Appearing? I have to get ready for work unlike you. Terminally online, Petulant, delusional and untalented to boot.
But you had enough time to rant at me in whisper and tell me to stop posting, but not duel, understood.
You should follow my advice. Maintain a firm grip on your loss, and continue whining.
I will, 2 kills 3 deaths is far from the worst one can do against a team with 3 healers lol
In fact maybe dk should be buffed since healing is so strong in the game!
Oh, I get it now. You’re just a trash-can player who finally started doing okay in BGs because DK is broken, and now you’re desperate to defend it because you don’t want your crutch taken away.
That explains why you keep dismissing every actual argument about the ability as people being “salty” instead of addressing any of the points being made.
If that makes you feel better sure, im a trashcan player.
Bro you're beet red furious. You've got more replies to this thread than any other person.
I dont think anyone here can try and act like they're not posting here a lot xD But trust, Im not mad when one of yall decided to message me offline after they dodged a duel
All this again because someone suggested you do something different in the game, and yall are quoting every last response of mine again and again. But Im the one thats mad.
Again, why cant class masteries be nerfed for dk and everything else remain the same, then buff other classes masteries? Why is that suggestion being ignored?
Why would you target class masteries when molten whip is the issue? The only mastery that is uniquely increasing DK’s damage here is landslide, and even that is only 10% extra damage. You already get major berserk from chains.
A 10% damage increase isn’t what suddenly makes DKs capable of hitting 41k molten whips. If the problem is the absurd burst coming from molten whip, then address molten whip instead of nerfing unrelated class masteries.
Can you try to make one argument that actually makes sense? Do a little math? Maybe use a little logic?
Molten whip is affected by that class mastery, and its not the only one that can give more damage, lead from the front is free berserk every time we ult if you're not using wildfire embers for pyrebrand.
If you ask me dk didnt need class masteries and it shouldve been kept for classes that havent been reworked yet. But hey if you want us to keep them, I'll keep them.
Molten whip was nerfed specifically because of the existence of class masteries and doesnt grant additional damage after the stacks are built, so obviously that would contribute. People not satisfied with the suggestion of weakening the class masteries and strengthening other classes' masteries really just show they wont be happy until DK is entirely gutted
Molten whip has the highest direct damage tooltip in the game, even compared to direct damage ultimates. You have zero reason to complain about any nerf that hits this ability.
If an ability is doing damage well beyond what it's intended to do, you don't fix that by buffing class masteries for other classes. You fix the ability that's actually causing the problem. Imagine the balancing nightmare of trying to buff every other class enough to compensate for one ability being overtuned. What a dumb suggestion.
Im not complaining about it im saying that if you want a nerf, the class masteries is the way to go, as it no longer deals additional damage done after the whip stacks are built to 3 like it used to. They "re contextualized" the damage by putting more sources for it in masteries.
Nowhere did I say i was mad for that or wanted more damage. I was actually arguing dk class masteries should be nerfed.
Again if people think this is not enough, they just want dk gutted
The reason you don't care if class masteries get nerfed or removed is pretty obvious: you're subclassing ardent flame
Hun, let me stop you right there. I hate subclassing and i stopped subclassing the minute they made pure dk playable in subclassing meta. Im not subclassing my dk, he's pure and will stay pure unless they once again make subclassing the only viable way to pvp decently
Then you're somehow managing to miss the point even harder than I thought.
Whether you personally subclass or not is completely irrelevant to the argument. The issue is that molten whip is overtuned. You keep trying to redirect the discussion toward class masteries, subclassing, or whatever build you happen to be using, when none of that changes the fact that the ability itself is capable of producing absurd amounts of direct damage.
And if you're claiming pure DK is perfectly viable without subclassing, that makes your argument for leaving molten whip untouched even weaker. You don't need to rely on some obscure subclass combination to make the ability hit ridiculously hard. That's precisely why the ability needs a targeted nerf rather than dragging the rest of the class into the discussion.
Nobody honestly cares whether you personally subclass. We're talking about the ability.
1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As for why i am okay with nerfing or even getting rid of the class masteries for dk its actually because i dont like the changes it caused for pyrebrand even if they are technically better, it made more sense before, and added some cost to how the heavy attack worked and how its damage scaled with how many dots you had up, vs wildfire taking the place of it to keep up your pressure. I liked it better when you had to make a more specific build for it rather than how it is now, i wouldnt care if they nerfed that, its too uniquely unusual compared to how other sets work and is unnecessary.
Also I find these threads and everyone yelling to nerf my favorite class annoying and think you can balance the classes by buffing everyone else rather than packing up DK the way Necromancer was. The core dk class rework changes are good, even without molten whip giving additional damage done. The reason they did all that in the first place again was to counter the subclass meta where dk and others slap on storm calling for increased damage against a target based on their total health, and hurricane, hence earthspike mantle, landslide and inexorable descent.
Until all that is addressed and they rearrange the sorc skill line, assassin, aedric spear and animal companion, nerfing dk just puts us back in the subclass meta.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »As for why i am okay with nerfing or even getting rid of the class masteries for dk its actually because i dont like the changes it caused for pyrebrand even if they are technically better, it made more sense before, and added some cost to how the heavy attack worked and how its damage scaled with how many dots you had up, vs wildfire taking the place of it to keep up your pressure. I liked it better when you had to make a more specific build for it rather than how it is now, i wouldnt care if they nerfed that, its too uniquely unusual compared to how other sets work and is unnecessary.
Also I find these threads and everyone yelling to nerf my favorite class annoying and think you can balance the classes by buffing everyone else rather than packing up DK the way Necromancer was. The core dk class rework changes are good, even without molten whip giving additional damage done. The reason they did all that in the first place again was to counter the subclass meta where dk and others slap on storm calling for increased damage against a target based on their total health, and hurricane, hence earthspike mantle, landslide and inexorable descent.
Until all that is addressed and they rearrange the sorc skill line, assassin, aedric spear and animal companion, nerfing dk just puts us back in the subclass meta.
You're mixing a bunch of different balance issues together to justify not addressing the one that's actually being discussed.
You can dislike what the class mastery changes did to pyrebrand, you can dislike the subclass meta, and you can think other skill lines need changes. None of that is an argument against nerfing molten whip when molten whip is doing disproportionate damage.
And the idea that nerfing molten whip automatically means "putting DK back into the subclass meta" is just a false choice. A targeted nerf to one overtuned ability doesn't require gutting the core DK rework, nor does it mean every other problem in the game has to be solved first.
You keep pointing to all these other things that need to be addressed as though they somehow make molten whip's damage acceptable. They don't. If molten whip is overtuned, nerf molten whip. If sorc, assassin, aedric spear, or animal companions need changes, address those separately.
You don't balance an overtuned ability by leaving it alone until every other class and skill line in the game has been redesigned. That's exactly how you end up with power creep instead of balance.2