U51 Feedback Thread for Classes and Abilities

Firstmep · August 10

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

After comparing same setups on live vs pts, assuming solo play, and starting around 4.4k base spell damage unbuffed, triple protective, fully buffed, the changes on pts(both balanced warrior and illuminate) net about 4k extra armor and the same ish spell damage(6k).

Keep in mind you need to overshoot the 25k armor for the max value by about 9k, so 34k resist, since major and minor breach are fairly easy to apply in pvp. Even with the change to illuminate you need to get extra armor from other sources like nord/protective to reach around 34-35k armor.

It's an interesting change but realisticly its another defensive buff to templar, the cap makes it difficult to truly capitilize on building armor for offense. Id propose raising the cap to 750 weapon and spell damage. It may seem like a lot, but it is replacing 6% spell damage and requires stacking a different stat altogether(armor) which comes with its own downsides.

This sounds extremely depressing for Templar. For PVP, if i am understanding correctly....When you are debuffed by and breach skill you are also being debuffed on your damage???
Well then...that means:
1. Templar is debuffed by Evasion on jabs.
2. Debuffed on all damage by breach.
3. Further debuffed by any Cowardice applied.
4. Restricted to sets that provide Armor in order to buff damage.

@ZOS_Kevin if this is the case, and the future plans for Templar you are going to lose A LOT of longstanding player base, both PVP and PVE...

Yes this makes you wanna overshoot on resistances by a fair amount or lose value on this passive, where as before this wasn't the case.

Keep in mind I wasn't using any kind of optimal setup, but still losing 2 different % modifiers to spell damage hurts and a meager 500 flat doesn't make up for it especially in a pvp context.

katorga · August 10

Firstmep wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Why even remake the characters at all at this point if they're just going to be reverted back to uselessness like the original DK? Or my Warden which has been completely gutted. The DK rework AND the Werewolf were beautifully done and perfect.
The issue is that the rest of the reworks are not done. Not that the new refreshes are bad or need to be ruined. Instead of ruining brand new characters, improve the other ones. Why keep giving us anything just to ruin it? Shattered Path Signet for example. Why even add it to the game? These nerfs need to come to an end. Nothing good will happen with many of the combat changes I've seen with the upcoming update. And for the most part that has been happening since U46. Take a look at the state of the game population. You think changes like this are going to make people keep investing in or wanting to play the game? My Guilds are ghost towns and every one of them have reduced their event schedules and talk about finding another game because they're characters are RUINED. And now you want to ruin the new ones too. What is the excitement factor for waiting years for our characters when this is what happens to 2 reworked Classes that haven't even been around for a year?

Third, the reworks are years away at this pace, and I for one don't want to play the same stale DK meta for another 6 months. I can choose to not play, or I can ask the devs to reign in the outlying issue.

That is the primary issue. We can assume at this point that DK and maybe the next refresh class are the only ones that are going to happen.

This patch should have been immediate refreshes for all of the remaining classes. Nothing more.

Firstmep · August 10

katorga wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Why even remake the characters at all at this point if they're just going to be reverted back to uselessness like the original DK? Or my Warden which has been completely gutted. The DK rework AND the Werewolf were beautifully done and perfect.
The issue is that the rest of the reworks are not done. Not that the new refreshes are bad or need to be ruined. Instead of ruining brand new characters, improve the other ones. Why keep giving us anything just to ruin it? Shattered Path Signet for example. Why even add it to the game? These nerfs need to come to an end. Nothing good will happen with many of the combat changes I've seen with the upcoming update. And for the most part that has been happening since U46. Take a look at the state of the game population. You think changes like this are going to make people keep investing in or wanting to play the game? My Guilds are ghost towns and every one of them have reduced their event schedules and talk about finding another game because they're characters are RUINED. And now you want to ruin the new ones too. What is the excitement factor for waiting years for our characters when this is what happens to 2 reworked Classes that haven't even been around for a year?

Third, the reworks are years away at this pace, and I for one don't want to play the same stale DK meta for another 6 months. I can choose to not play, or I can ask the devs to reign in the outlying issue.

That is the primary issue. We can assume at this point that DK and maybe the next refresh class are the only ones that are going to happen.

This patch should have been immediate refreshes for all of the remaining classes. Nothing more.

I'd be happy with numerical buffs to underperforming specs and some toning down of dk specifically to HoF sustain and whip damage.
I don't think it's realistic to ask for visual mechanical reworks pronto when their full team were going to pace them out thru multiple years.
But simple numerical changes could make pvp much more enjoyable.
I've seen some people say that everything should be buffed to dk level, but I for one do not like Hof sustain allowing permablocking. This kind of non regen based infinite sustain was problematic in the past and to no one's surprise it's problematic now.

Alchimiste1 · August 10

Sometimes I look at the pts combat changes and I ask myself , “ who asked for that ?”

This is one of those times.

VinnyGambini · August 10

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Now that my mind is rolling...

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

1. Templar is debuffed by Evasion on jabs.

Since Flame Whip is Single Target, at base, has anyone tested if the Flame Lash morph turning into AOE is actually effected by Evasion??

Can someone confirm on PTS?

It's 100% single target.

Considering breach Templar got another nerf.

Seriously @ZOS_Kevin can't you do the math? I understand making it 1% of resistances + original 6% will be close to lost 10%, but this? Seriously?

Radiate77 · August 10

@ZOS_Kevin this is a pretty big deal.

We’re seeing a double dip added to Templar in real time, can we get a confirmation that this passive checks Armor before debuffs are applied to us?

VinnyGambini · August 10

Radiate77 wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin this is a pretty big deal.

We’re seeing a double dip added to Templar in real time, can we get a confirmation that this passive checks Armor before debuffs are applied to us?

Unlimited sustain (DK, sorc) is also pretty big deal. Forum is literally full of sustain discussion as core game mechanic, Zos did not adress it in any way.

@ZOS_Kevin will we finally get any statement regarding this topic?

Jabbs_Giggity · August 10

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Now that my mind is rolling...

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

1. Templar is debuffed by Evasion on jabs.

Since Flame Whip is Single Target, at base, has anyone tested if the Flame Lash morph turning into AOE is actually effected by Evasion??

Can someone confirm on PTS?

It's 100% single target.

Considering breach Templar got another nerf.

Seriously @ZOS_Kevin can't you do the math? I understand making it 1% of resistances + original 6% will be close to lost 10%, but this? Seriously?

Okay, so DK gets evasion immunity on the most powerful AOE skill in the game (including Ultimates), and Templar gets more nerfed, publicly aiming at the future of the class being In order to do the same amount of damage on u50 live, albeit still the most underwhelming in class terms, you have to solely spec into a FULL tank that already cannot sustain...

This has got to be a joke.

Firstmep · August 10

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Now that my mind is rolling...

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

1. Templar is debuffed by Evasion on jabs.

Since Flame Whip is Single Target, at base, has anyone tested if the Flame Lash morph turning into AOE is actually effected by Evasion??

Can someone confirm on PTS?

It's 100% single target.

Considering breach Templar got another nerf.

Seriously @ZOS_Kevin can't you do the math? I understand making it 1% of resistances + original 6% will be close to lost 10%, but this? Seriously?

Okay, so DK gets evasion immunity on the most powerful AOE skill in the game (including Ultimates), and Templar gets more nerfed, publicly aiming at the future of the class being In order to do the same amount of damage on u50 live, albeit still the most underwhelming in class terms, you have to solely spec into a FULL tank that already cannot sustain...

This has got to be a joke.

You can reach the magical 34k with the right setup easily, but let's be real they could add a 1000 spell damage to templar and our damage would still suck.

Jabbs_Giggity · August 10

Firstmep wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Now that my mind is rolling...

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

1. Templar is debuffed by Evasion on jabs.

Since Flame Whip is Single Target, at base, has anyone tested if the Flame Lash morph turning into AOE is actually effected by Evasion??

Can someone confirm on PTS?

It's 100% single target.

Considering breach Templar got another nerf.

Seriously @ZOS_Kevin can't you do the math? I understand making it 1% of resistances + original 6% will be close to lost 10%, but this? Seriously?

Okay, so DK gets evasion immunity on the most powerful AOE skill in the game (including Ultimates), and Templar gets more nerfed, publicly aiming at the future of the class being In order to do the same amount of damage on u50 live, albeit still the most underwhelming in class terms, you have to solely spec into a FULL tank that already cannot sustain...

This has got to be a joke.

You can reach the magical 34k with the right setup easily, but let's be real they could add a 1000 spell damage to templar and our damage would still suck.

Yes, but that is not the point. The point being made is that Templar is being forced to build for armor just to have a shot at being able to do damage.
All while double dipping nerfs are being forced on the Templar.
For sake of argument...say you build for 34k armor and get the 6k wd as compared above on PTS.
For every Armor debuff taken - Breach + any unique debuffs like Crimson Oath, Templar loses damage. This is a double dipping nerf.
Add Cowardice and lose more wd.
Add Evasion you already lose 20% wd on majority of Templar skills.

Why is Templar always double dipped on nerfs and calculations??

@ZOS_Kevin AN IMMEDIATE STATEMENT NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES WITH TEMPLAR Short of this, nothing else is acceptable anymore.

Thal · August 10

It would be fine if Balanced Warrior retained the 6% buff and added the portion tied to armor. This legitimately wouldn’t break anything and would net out to somewhere in the same realm.

With that said, if we are hell bent on the group armor passive being a thing, this should also grant the Templar minor resolve personally in addition to the group unnamed buff.

Radiate77 · August 10

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin this is a pretty big deal.

We’re seeing a double dip added to Templar in real time, can we get a confirmation that this passive checks Armor before debuffs are applied to us?

Unlimited sustain (DK, sorc) is also pretty big deal. Forum is literally full of sustain discussion as core game mechanic, Zos did not adress it in any way.

@ZOS_Kevin will we finally get any statement regarding this topic?

I agree that this important, but if the precedent is armor = damage on Templar, then they now have to worry about major & minors for Maim, Cowardice, and now Breach?

We’re adding another variable to destroy Templar damage, as if their damage wasn’t bad enough…

This is not even accounting for the additional behind the scenes math forced on Templar to calculate each milli-second, I wonder what impact this will have on performance.

Thal · August 10

Radiate77 wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin this is a pretty big deal.

We’re seeing a double dip added to Templar in real time, can we get a confirmation that this passive checks Armor before debuffs are applied to us?

Unlimited sustain (DK, sorc) is also pretty big deal. Forum is literally full of sustain discussion as core game mechanic, Zos did not adress it in any way.

@ZOS_Kevin will we finally get any statement regarding this topic?

I agree that this important, but if the precedent is armor = damage on Templar, then they now have to worry about major & minors for Maim, Cowardice, and now Breach?

We’re adding another variable to destroy Templar damage, as if their damage wasn’t bad enough…

We could re-double the Bright Harbinger effect and it still would not put Templar at top of DPS. Sad that we’re trying to get cute due to the Brutality/Armor change.

ComReev · August 10

Udrath wrote: »

Major force should not go on potions unless major force and minor force are nerfed to 10% and 5%. That will create to much power creep in the future, mostly on classes that do not or will not suffer from sustain issues.

The introduction of massive dmg shields from potions makes this change needed

Vaqual · August 10

The change to imbue weapon will make it much more useable for melee builds and I like that.
But it is now going to be extremely easy to load this into any burst combo.

You will have to come up with a way to ensure a mutual lock out for certain delayed burst abilities in the long term. This could be an overridable buff that is shared between delayed bursts, maybe differentiating between auto casts like CoF/ BB/Proxy/etc. and on-hit triggered effects. This would make it easier to put power into class kits and keep subclassing viable without creating crazy outliers.

This was, btw, the very first feedback I gave on the PTS prior to subclassing. So yeah, what can I say.

Athometodd · August 10

sayswhoto wrote: »

And this ability will tick for that damage every 2 seconds for 10seconds and heal 40%, assuming it's morphed to Swallow Soul?

To clarify, the ability will tick for a heal every 2 seconds - not damage.

When I was on a NB on the PTS but I wasn't in combat (so soulcleaver wasn't active), I recall noting that swallow soul was something like 12-15 less damage than concealed strike. Next time I am on I can look more carefully and check while in combat as well. I think needing a full 5 piece set to make it a viable spammable (with a nice heal) also needs to be considered.

ioResult · August 11

Firstmep wrote: »

I'd be happy with numerical buffs to underperforming specs and some toning down of dk specifically to HoF sustain and whip damage.
I don't think it's realistic to ask for visual mechanical reworks pronto when their full team were going to pace them out thru multiple years.
But simple numerical changes could make pvp much more enjoyable.
I've seen some people say that everything should be buffed to dk level, but I for one do not like Hof sustain allowing permablocking. This kind of non regen based infinite sustain was problematic in the past and to no one's surprise it's problematic now.

Exactly right!

Literally no one asked for visual mechanical reworks of anything or any class. All we've wanted for the last 5 years is to go back to balance in the numbers and build possibilities.

Sustain is completely overtuned for DK, Sorc and Werewolf.

Damage is also overtuned for DK and Sorc.

Just fix these (and seriously just get rid of Rallying Cry, your 'change' wasn't the least bit meaningful) and a lot of players will see that ZOS understands how to make impactful, meaningful changes quickly that aren't going to take years. We know you can do it, the new Shattered Paths Signet insta-nerf proved it.

PvPers want to see TTK brought back down to what it was pre-Tank Meta for everyone, not just DK and Sorc. The era of infinite multi-stacking shields and overtuned resistances and crit resistance needs to come to an end.

xencthlu · August 11

Okay, week two. I still think the new cost of Elemental Susceptibility is too high for what it actually does. I still think nerfing it largely on the basis of a single mythic item isn't a good idea. I still don't mind a cast cost, I just think it should be lower.

guarstompemoji · August 11

1. Werewolf
The ww nerfs feel a return to Old Zos where players DREADED updates instead of looking forward to them.

If Zos wants to bleed players, release nerfs like this.

The nerf uses a hammer where a scalpel is needed. It does NOT address the issue.

The root of the WW issue is the Sorc Mastery, "Conservation of Energy." The WW 'issue' does not exist on other classes. The finesse solution is to make the Sorc Mastery "Conservation of Energy" not work on WWs.

This would be a targeted, finessed change and not cause a bleeding of the playerbase.

2. Funnel Health
The Funnel Health doesn't make sense. The skill was fun and not OP, so the change comes across as negating something fun.

3. DK
DK damage is behind other classes at the moment in PvE. Landslide needs to gain a little faster.

I'm not as worried about PvP due to the upcoming limits on shields, etc.

Major_Mangle · August 11

xencthlu wrote: »

Okay, week two. I still think the new cost of Elemental Susceptibility is too high for what it actually does. I still think nerfing it largely on the basis of a single mythic item isn't a good idea. I still don't mind a cast cost, I just think it should be lower.

Elemental susceptibility has been an issue long before shattered path signet was even a thing. I've yet to hear a compelling argument to why a skill that's so overloaded (in both PvP and PvE) should be free of cost/cheap. The current cost on PTS is fine and has to be used with a bit more care, which is how it should be when using powerful skills.

master_vanargand · August 11

I want to be able to remove the flag effect from "Banner Bearer."
Even if it were a pricey Crown Store skill style, I would still want it.
ZoS could make a fortune just by letting us turn off that flag.

aLi3nZ · August 11

WW sustain changes are not a good idea and instead should have removed the ability to use class masteries from all classes and made seperate class masteries for WW only.

Sorc doesn’t need a nerf to sustain despite what people say.

Dk also doesn’t need a nerf to sustain.

Simply remove the heal from flame lash and its morphs completely. Remove the heal from heart of flame. And remove the damage mitigation on wings.

If you want to nerf sorc. Half the damage on static reverberation and reduce damage increase in font of power maybe.

Luneca · August 11

Feedback: Disable class masteries under character lvl 50. You can max out skill lines at lvl 35-40 and use class masteries to farm low level players in BGs if WW and DK were not already a problem there.

It seriously is ridiculous, esp. with sorc masteries. It wasn't just punching down, I had total control over the entire match thanks to the masteries being usable in low level BGs. Terrible thing to learn and completely uncomepetitive.

Zyaneth_Bal · August 11

ioResult wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I'd be happy with numerical buffs to underperforming specs and some toning down of dk specifically to HoF sustain and whip damage.
I don't think it's realistic to ask for visual mechanical reworks pronto when their full team were going to pace them out thru multiple years.
But simple numerical changes could make pvp much more enjoyable.
I've seen some people say that everything should be buffed to dk level, but I for one do not like Hof sustain allowing permablocking. This kind of non regen based infinite sustain was problematic in the past and to no one's surprise it's problematic now.

Exactly right!

Literally no one asked for visual mechanical reworks of anything or any class. All we've wanted for the last 5 years is to go back to balance in the numbers and build possibilities.

Sustain is completely overtuned for DK, Sorc and Werewolf.

Damage is also overtuned for DK and Sorc.

Just fix these (and seriously just get rid of Rallying Cry, your 'change' wasn't the least bit meaningful) and a lot of players will see that ZOS understands how to make impactful, meaningful changes quickly that aren't going to take years. We know you can do it, the new Shattered Paths Signet insta-nerf proved it.

PvPers want to see TTK brought back down to what it was pre-Tank Meta for everyone, not just DK and Sorc. The era of infinite multi-stacking shields and overtuned resistances and crit resistance needs to come to an end.

You’re asking to bring down damage then ttk at the same time, make up your mind.
This just reads like the usual “I don’t want anyone to kill me but to be able to kill everyone”, you want survivability nerfed because you can’t kill, you want damage nerfed because you die to it, this is a loop.

Pvpers do want damage up for some classes and setups but not down, high damage is fun, stalemates and tanks are not.

tomofhyrule · August 11

I'm baffled as to why DK's sustain is still untouched.

I'm a DK main. I still think Core of Flame and its morphs are busted. Everything that is in the "this is OP" complaints is because of one thing: unlimited sustain. That's Core of Flame for DK, and that's cheap skills combined with Conservation for Sorc Werewolf, and that's multiple enhanced status effects from a free spammable.

One of those was addressed. One of those was sort of addressed, but not wholly. And one of those was ignored.

Corrosive's also been an issue for a while, but the mitigation was reduced a bit ago. Still, that mitigation isn't enough for the raw offensive power it has, so much so that Magma Shell is completely overshadowed in every circumstance (you trade all of the damage it does for a worse version of barrier on your team, and then it locks you out of ult gen for 15 seconds).

A lot of the DK being OP issues would be solved from just:

kneecap the amount of resources from Core of Flame and its morphs (I'd go back to the enemies hit-based heal it used to have)
Severely reduce the mitigation offerred by Corrosive Armor

Wuuffyy · August 11

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm baffled as to why DK's sustain is still untouched.

I'm a DK main. I still think Core of Flame and its morphs are busted. Everything that is in the "this is OP" complaints is because of one thing: unlimited sustain. That's Core of Flame for DK, and that's cheap skills combined with Conservation for Sorc Werewolf, and that's multiple enhanced status effects from a free spammable.

One of those was addressed. One of those was sort of addressed, but not wholly. And one of those was ignored.

Corrosive's also been an issue for a while, but the mitigation was reduced a bit ago. Still, that mitigation isn't enough for the raw offensive power it has, so much so that Magma Shell is completely overshadowed in every circumstance (you trade all of the damage it does for a worse version of barrier on your team, and then it locks you out of ult gen for 15 seconds).

A lot of the DK being OP issues would be solved from just:
kneecap the amount of resources from Core of Flame and its morphs (I'd go back to the enemies hit-based heal it used to have)

Severely reduce the mitigation offerred by Corrosive Armor

Whip just hits far too hard and the ability to access delayed burst makes sure that neither of these would be sufficient to mitigate much of the problem behaviors of DK (should they of course deem DK as ‘not in a healthy state’ in PvP).

Long story short, my whip should not be *landing as an insta-hit for 15-19k building no pen with 2 defensive sets (Bloodspawn and Rally) out of corro and onslaught. This is obviously made worse by the fact they have multiple iterations of damage in their ‘combo’ (Core of Flame, Flames of Oblivion, Petrify damage on break, etc.)

Firstmep · August 11

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm baffled as to why DK's sustain is still untouched.

I'm a DK main. I still think Core of Flame and its morphs are busted. Everything that is in the "this is OP" complaints is because of one thing: unlimited sustain. That's Core of Flame for DK, and that's cheap skills combined with Conservation for Sorc Werewolf, and that's multiple enhanced status effects from a free spammable.

One of those was addressed. One of those was sort of addressed, but not wholly. And one of those was ignored.

Corrosive's also been an issue for a while, but the mitigation was reduced a bit ago. Still, that mitigation isn't enough for the raw offensive power it has, so much so that Magma Shell is completely overshadowed in every circumstance (you trade all of the damage it does for a worse version of barrier on your team, and then it locks you out of ult gen for 15 seconds).

A lot of the DK being OP issues would be solved from just:
kneecap the amount of resources from Core of Flame and its morphs (I'd go back to the enemies hit-based heal it used to have)

Severely reduce the mitigation offerred by Corrosive Armor

Whip just hits far too hard and the ability to access delayed burst makes sure that neither of these would be sufficient to mitigate much of the problem behaviors of DK (should they of course deem DK as ‘not in a healthy state’ in PvP).

Long story short, my whip should not be hitting in an insta-hit for 15-19k building no pen with 2 defensive sets (Bloodspawn and Rally) out of corro and onslaught. This is obviously made worse by the fact they have multiple iterations of damage in their ‘combo’ (Core of Flame, Flames of Oblivion, Petrify damage on break, etc.)

To this day I don't understand why whip does so much dmg, when the class also has access to the literal strongest dots in game.

Jabbs_Giggity · August 11

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm baffled as to why DK's sustain is still untouched.

I'm a DK main. I still think Core of Flame and its morphs are busted. Everything that is in the "this is OP" complaints is because of one thing: unlimited sustain. That's Core of Flame for DK, and that's cheap skills combined with Conservation for Sorc Werewolf, and that's multiple enhanced status effects from a free spammable.

One of those was addressed. One of those was sort of addressed, but not wholly. And one of those was ignored.

Corrosive's also been an issue for a while, but the mitigation was reduced a bit ago. Still, that mitigation isn't enough for the raw offensive power it has, so much so that Magma Shell is completely overshadowed in every circumstance (you trade all of the damage it does for a worse version of barrier on your team, and then it locks you out of ult gen for 15 seconds).

A lot of the DK being OP issues would be solved from just:
kneecap the amount of resources from Core of Flame and its morphs (I'd go back to the enemies hit-based heal it used to have)

Severely reduce the mitigation offerred by Corrosive Armor

Whip just hits far too hard and the ability to access delayed burst makes sure that neither of these would be sufficient to mitigate much of the problem behaviors of DK (should they of course deem DK as ‘not in a healthy state’ in PvP).

Long story short, my whip should not be hitting in an insta-hit for 15-19k building no pen with 2 defensive sets (Bloodspawn and Rally) out of corro and onslaught. This is obviously made worse by the fact they have multiple iterations of damage in their ‘combo’ (Core of Flame, Flames of Oblivion, Petrify damage on break, etc.)

Don't forget all the built in damage modifiers DK has, on top of the access to upfront and delayed burst.
10% from Landslide
10% from Minor Brutality
10% damage done from Take Flight
10% Major Berserk from Lead from the front class mastery
7% to AOE and DoT damage from World in Ruin passive
5% Flame Damage from Traumatic Burns passive
215wd from Minor Courage tied to a burst heal

This is all on top of modifiers like Major Protection from Storm Voice
Infinite sustain from CoF and Battle Roar

I get that other classes haven't been reworked yet, but with how overloaded this class is and the reworks being pushed back 1-2 years, I see no other way to balance the game without bringing DK down in power for the time being.

madmufffin · August 11

Thal wrote: »

It would be fine if Balanced Warrior retained the 6% buff and added the portion tied to armor. This legitimately wouldn’t break anything and would net out to somewhere in the same realm.

With that said, if we are hell bent on the group armor passive being a thing, this should also grant the Templar minor resolve personally in addition to the group unnamed buff.

% more and weapon damage from armor still would make templar weaker than DK and Sorc in pvp and nowhere near NB and Cro in pve, but instead we must eat another nerf

BasP · August 11

Templar

Balanced Warrior
It's nice that the cap of 500 W/S Damage can be reached fairly easily on a PvE build, even on a solo Magplar with 5L/2M armor pieces, and I personally think the change is fine. I'm also curious to learn about the future Templar kit you have in mind, though I realise we'll have to wait a bit for its refresh.

That being said, it's not a big buff or anything and it does kind of feel like a sidegrade to me (as someone else mentioned before). Since the Developer Comment underneath this change said that "This won't solve those problems entirely...", I don't really understand why the Templar hasn't been buffed some more.

If you feel like the new Balanced Warrior passive would've been too strong if the amount of W/S Damage would be increased further, buffing the Class Masteries in the meantime could work too. Perhaps Judgement's Brand's bonus could be increased to 1750 or something, or maybe Bright Harbinger's W/S Damage buff could be trippled instead of doubled for the player. I don't know.