Why hasn't DK been nerfed yet?

NovelliESO · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

and keep in mind i play a nord, not even a dunmer which would cut the fire damage significantly. Crit resistance and a race change would go a long way for some of yall I bet.

Shadowboxing as always. DK is too strong, stop obfuscating every point. How is a race change going to help someone getting hit with a corrosive whip? You don't even make sense.

BardokRedSnow · August 10

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

and keep in mind i play a nord, not even a dunmer which would cut the fire damage significantly. Crit resistance and a race change would go a long way for some of yall I bet.

Shadowboxing as always. DK is too strong, stop obfuscating every point. How is a race change going to help someone getting hit with a corrosive whip? You don't even make sense.

You can say it however much you like doesnt make it any more or less true

Whip does fire damage, dunmer has high fire resistance. Corrosive whip doesnt ignore racial passive resistance, it only ignores your physical/spell resistance.

That this needs explaining says everything about this whole convo.

CannedChicken · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

and keep in mind i play a nord, not even a dunmer which would cut the fire damage significantly. Crit resistance and a race change would go a long way for some of yall I bet.

If the answer to Whip is “change your race and entire build,” then that’s exactly the problem. You shouldn’t have to specifically build your character around countering one ability just to survive it.

Race choice and defensive stats should matter, but when people are being told to race change and restructure their build specifically because of one skill, that suggests the skill’s damage ceiling is too high.

BardokRedSnow · August 10

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

MeridiaFavorsMe · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

and keep in mind i play a nord, not even a dunmer which would cut the fire damage significantly. Crit resistance and a race change would go a long way for some of yall I bet.

LOL bro is actually telling people to fork over money, race change, and build their entire character around surviving Whip. 💀

“Just spend money and redesign your build to counter one ability”

Nice meme.

NovelliESO · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

You don't understand user error. User error is you constantly coming back and arguing the same points you already lost on. There are sets that remove % based crit resist. You want everyone running around with 4k crit resist and to have high resist yet can't engage with the fact that 38k res doesn't matter with corrosive and even better you don't know how racial passives work. Just because you whip people for 20k doesn't mean it doesn't happen, try building more damage.

Teeba_Shei · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

NovelliESO · August 10

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

He does this on every thread it's so funny.

BardokRedSnow · August 10

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

and keep in mind i play a nord, not even a dunmer which would cut the fire damage significantly. Crit resistance and a race change would go a long way for some of yall I bet.

LOL bro is actually telling people to fork over money, race change, and build their entire character around surviving Whip. 💀

“Just spend money and redesign your build to counter one ability”

Nice meme.

omg lol now who's memeing

Race changes for pvpers looking to be meta is pretty common idk what to tell you

Wuuffyy · August 10

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

I can just about second this. To my knowledge, ‘flame resistance’ equates to simply a ‘higher spell resistance’ amount for fire damage specifically.

When you look at your character sheet, you’ll see all the percentages are the same (matching your phy/ spell resistance) until you add any specific resistance (further indicating that it’s simply more effective spell resist to a specific elemental damage)

CannedChicken · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

MeridiaFavorsMe · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

and keep in mind i play a nord, not even a dunmer which would cut the fire damage significantly. Crit resistance and a race change would go a long way for some of yall I bet.

LOL bro is actually telling people to fork over money, race change, and build their entire character around surviving Whip. 💀

“Just spend money and redesign your build to counter one ability”

Nice meme.

omg lol now who's memeing

Race changes for pvpers looking to be meta is pretty common idk what to tell you

Explain to me how race changing to get more flame resist helps when corrosive bypasses flame resist? Do you even know how the DK abilities work?

Wuuffyy · August 10

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course. */s

BardokRedSnow · August 10

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

Blocking helps too

RaidingTraiding · August 10

can i get access to 5 casts of my ult for getting some random status effect applied on someone? still wouldnt get close to the damage on whip even without corrosive on. how is it that the hardest hitting skill in the game isn't even an ultimate and you can spam it 5 times in a row and is aoe? master class in balancing.

NovelliESO · August 10

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

I can just about second this. To my knowledge, ‘flame resistance’ equates to simply a ‘higher spell resistance’ amount for fire damage specifically.

When you look at your character sheet, you’ll see all the percentages are the same (matching your phy/ spell resistance) until you add any specific resistance (further indicating that it’s simply more effective spell resist to a specific elemental damage)

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

"I was wrong about what I said, as usual, so here is my 50th goal post shift." How are you so smug when you are constantly wrong LOL

"I was never hit this hard therefore I'm better"

Give it a rest.

BardokRedSnow · August 10

NovelliESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

I can just about second this. To my knowledge, ‘flame resistance’ equates to simply a ‘higher spell resistance’ amount for fire damage specifically.

When you look at your character sheet, you’ll see all the percentages are the same (matching your phy/ spell resistance) until you add any specific resistance (further indicating that it’s simply more effective spell resist to a specific elemental damage)

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

"I was wrong about what I said, as usual, so here is my 50th goal post shift." How are you so smug when you are constantly wrong LOL

"I was never hit this hard therefore I'm better"

Give it a rest.

Because im not dying to 40k whips lol

Teeba_Shei · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

Blocking helps too

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

This is basically what you are saying right? Its fine because you can walk around holding block?

BardokRedSnow · August 10

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

Try rallying cry with full impen

Wuuffyy · August 10

NovelliESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

I can just about second this. To my knowledge, ‘flame resistance’ equates to simply a ‘higher spell resistance’ amount for fire damage specifically.

When you look at your character sheet, you’ll see all the percentages are the same (matching your phy/ spell resistance) until you add any specific resistance (further indicating that it’s simply more effective spell resist to a specific elemental damage)

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

"I was wrong about what I said, as usual, so here is my 50th goal post shift." How are you so smug when you are constantly wrong LOL

"I was never hit this hard therefore I'm better"

Give it a rest.

Hey, don’t tag me lol. I’m just citing that flame resistance should in fact by bypassed by corro’s ‘spell resistance bypass’.

I know you don’t like me, but it’d help tremendously to read what I am writing xD

NovelliESO · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

I can just about second this. To my knowledge, ‘flame resistance’ equates to simply a ‘higher spell resistance’ amount for fire damage specifically.

When you look at your character sheet, you’ll see all the percentages are the same (matching your phy/ spell resistance) until you add any specific resistance (further indicating that it’s simply more effective spell resist to a specific elemental damage)

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

"I was wrong about what I said, as usual, so here is my 50th goal post shift." How are you so smug when you are constantly wrong LOL

"I was never hit this hard therefore I'm better"

Give it a rest.

Because im not dying to 40k whips lol

You not dying to 40k whips doesn't prove anything, you are aware of that right? Just because you don't come across people who build intelligently to deal more damage doesn't mean anything about you. The only thing that can be said about you is you constantly try to spread misinformation and goal post shift whenever you are wrong, which is very often.

You know nothing about races and tried to suggest getting a race change, every single person told you that were wrong with nobody backing you, the person also told you they are full impen and your response is now just, "lol doesn't happen to me" We get it, you don't play against good people.

CannedChicken · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

Try rallying cry with full impen

Farstrider exists by the way. Any other useless suggestions you want to give to me?

BardokRedSnow · August 10

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

Blocking helps too

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

This is basically what you are saying right? Its fine because you can walk around holding block?

Do yall really not reactionary block when you see a dk winding up their combo lol or pop corrosive

Maybe because i play souls games but its pretty easy to block a dk burst when needed, its heavily telegraphed and we're loud

Heck they even made an addon to alert yall when we pop corrosive so you know to block or run, maybe yall need that

NovelliESO · August 10

Wuuffyy wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

I can just about second this. To my knowledge, ‘flame resistance’ equates to simply a ‘higher spell resistance’ amount for fire damage specifically.

When you look at your character sheet, you’ll see all the percentages are the same (matching your phy/ spell resistance) until you add any specific resistance (further indicating that it’s simply more effective spell resist to a specific elemental damage)

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

"I was wrong about what I said, as usual, so here is my 50th goal post shift." How are you so smug when you are constantly wrong LOL

"I was never hit this hard therefore I'm better"

Give it a rest.

Hey, don’t tag me lol. I’m just citing that flame resistance should in fact by bypassed by corro’s ‘spell resistance bypass’.

I know you don’t like me, but it’d help tremendously to read what I am writing xD

Your quote is just automatically in there, it's a response to bardok, hence him being the latest quote.

CannedChicken · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

Blocking helps too

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

This is basically what you are saying right? Its fine because you can walk around holding block?

Do yall really not reactionary block when you see a dk winding up their combo lol or pop corrosive

Maybe because i play souls games but its pretty easy to block a dk burst when needed, its heavily telegraphed and we're loud

Heck they even made an addon to alert yall when we pop corrosive so you know to block or run, maybe yall need that

I got chained from off screen and had like .25 seconds to block before I died instantly. If DK is truly that strong that I have to sit there and hold block forever versus them then you aren't really making an argument that this is balanced.

BardokRedSnow · August 10

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

20k burst is common in pvp and not even just from a three stack molten whip, spectral arrow was destroying people for this much and more when subclassing dropped

If 20k is too much for some of you, then I assume you just prefer a tank meta again where no one dies.

MeridiaFavorsMe · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

Blocking helps too

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

This is basically what you are saying right? Its fine because you can walk around holding block?

Do yall really not reactionary block when you see a dk winding up their combo lol or pop corrosive

Maybe because i play souls games but its pretty easy to block a dk burst when needed, its heavily telegraphed and we're loud

Heck they even made an addon to alert yall when we pop corrosive so you know to block or run, maybe yall need that

Bro this is elder scrolls online not dark souls. People shouldn't be expected to have to dodge roll with a .1 second reaction time in order to survive. If they do then something ain't right.

Wuuffyy · August 10

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

20k burst is common in pvp and not even just from a three stack molten whip, spectral arrow was destroying people for this much and more when subclassing dropped

If 20k is too much for some of you, then I assume you just prefer a tank meta again where no one dies.

20k through block is insanity, I won’t lie.

I think block is overtuned in PvP but like, as of the current time, nothing should have the potential to hit like that against a person built with the resistances they have.

BardokRedSnow · August 10

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

Corrosive armor does ignore flame resist though, which makes your entire argument about race changing pointless. It sounds like you are the one having the user error.

Even if that is the case crit resistance is definitely not ignored and is the more significant mitigation in this scenario, and since ive never been smacked by 40k id say im doing something right

Blocking helps too

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

This is basically what you are saying right? Its fine because you can walk around holding block?

Do yall really not reactionary block when you see a dk winding up their combo lol or pop corrosive

Maybe because i play souls games but its pretty easy to block a dk burst when needed, its heavily telegraphed and we're loud

Heck they even made an addon to alert yall when we pop corrosive so you know to block or run, maybe yall need that

I got chained from off screen and had like .25 seconds to block before I died instantly. If DK is truly that strong that I have to sit there and hold block forever versus them then you aren't really making an argument that this is balanced.

Buddy, I promise you that isnt happening in cyro lol, you're in IC where people wait and stalk players like yourself who are unsuspecting and where they dont have to build as tanky because there's less players, npcs that can get in the way and no siege to worry about.

Its ganking heaven over there and I promise ya if it wasnt dk itd be something else.

BardokRedSnow · August 10

Wuuffyy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

corrosive also doesnt ignore crit resistance

This all goes back to when I originally said if people are seeing 40k whips on their person it is likely user error.

I'm full impen in the clip. Any other useless suggestions you want to give me?

I need you to hold block and never ever let go. Block while walking through Arb, block opening the door, block while in your bag.

This way, the whip will only hit you for 20k which is more balanced of course.

20k burst is common in pvp and not even just from a three stack molten whip, spectral arrow was destroying people for this much and more when subclassing dropped

If 20k is too much for some of you, then I assume you just prefer a tank meta again where no one dies.

20k through block is insanity, I won’t lie.

I think block is overtuned in PvP but like, as of the current time, nothing should have the potential to hit like that against a person built with the resistances they have.

Im pretty sure thats not happening, people are likely being stunned out of block and getting hit however. Like in the case of op getting yoinked and not being able to.