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DK Nerfs will get their own Patch Notes right?
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BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Everyone that plays pvp and reads this part of the thread with yall talkin about you got hit with a 40k whip and claiming someone else cant play at a high level, yea they're just gonna laugh and move on.
They are going to see me ask you 5 times what I misunderstood and you never respond and just skip over it.
Because it is obvious lol and I already responded, you keep comparing dk pure class to non refreshed pure classes... that i have to spell that out to you mr i take 40k whips is so annoying I hate having to waste breath.
Duh, yes, dk is better than other pure class builds that havent been refreshed... the point is zos wants the refreshed classes, eventually all of them to be on par with subclassed builds, and really pure class dk is still not better than subclassed builds, which is why most of the sweats you see arent playing them, they're all majority still on subclassed builds.
The point of the masteries added is to bring more classes up to that level, give incentive to not just subclass. And yet even with that intent, which is still the intent 8 months later and will be according to them years from now, people are still playing subclass builds at the highest level.
My own subclass build is way stronger than my pure dk. I dont want to subclass though, I love pure dk. I only subclassed when I felt I absolutely had to prior to the refresh, and now thats no longer the case.
So yea, obviously compared to non refreshed classes dk is stronger. Again, the intent is to bring them all up to subclassed level. So if you wanna ask anything, ask for buffs for the other classes, not nerf this nerf that.
Spelled out for you.
Now seriously put on some impen and use the crit resist cp if you need to, slap on rallying.... if you're gettin 40k whips slapped on you, your build is severely unoptimized for pvp.
You are again just making things up because you can't content with the fact, this is now the 8th time. Keep trying though I'm sure you'll eventually land on something I actually said that you can contend with... surely.
You said, "you keep comparing dk pure class to non refreshed pure classes. Wrong, try reading this, it's literally on this same page, stop skipping things "They are going to see you claiming DK isn't OP and then trying to use subclassing as the reason, even though DK is the strongest when subclassed into as well as the strongest pure class, it is just the strongest PvP spec, you miss out not being a DK more than you would for not being any other class." I have also stated this multiple times.
Spelled out for you.1 -
AdonisJorge✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
I sincerely believe that we need to buff DK even more. The class is still far from reaching its full potential and the perfect balance we can achieve.
COF should restore 50% of maximum resources based on missing resources (including ultimate).
Corrosive should reduce all incoming damage to 3%, cost only 100 ultimate, allow DK to generate ultimate while active, and have its duration extended to 30 seconds.
Whip should deal Oblivion damage when fully stacked.
Wings should have their duration extended to 1 minute.
There is no way that the only reworked class should not shine in all aspects of the game — tanking, sustain, support, and damage. Yet Dragonknights are still not the top damage dealers in PvE.
We also have a strong lore-based reason to buff Dragonknights: they are practitioners of the ancient Akaviri arts, and history shows that the Akaviri were never successfully invaded. Their traditions form one of the foundations of the Cyrodiilic Empire.1 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
The Elder Scrolls Online Team0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭AdonisJorge wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
I sincerely believe that we need to buff DK even more. The class is still far from reaching its full potential and the perfect balance we can achieve.
COF should restore 50% of maximum resources based on missing resources (including ultimate).
Corrosive should reduce all incoming damage to 3%, cost only 100 ultimate, allow DK to generate ultimate while active, and have its duration extended to 30 seconds.
Whip should deal Oblivion damage when fully stacked.
Wings should have their duration extended to 1 minute.
There is no way that the only reworked class should not shine in all aspects of the game — tanking, sustain, support, and damage. Yet Dragonknights are still not the top damage dealers in PvE.
We also have a strong lore-based reason to buff Dragonknights: they are practitioners of the ancient Akaviri arts, and history shows that the Akaviri were never successfully invaded. Their traditions form one of the foundations of the Cyrodiilic Empire.
People in this thread that don't actually know how insane DK is currently, or enjoy being carried by it, will think this stuff is a good suggestion.1 -
ceruulean✭✭✭✭✭Pure class DK is still overall more stat dense and stronger than subclassed builds. Maybe the strongest subclass build for 1v1 is Aedric/Ardent/Grave Lord, but the build needs to sacrifice 1) monster helm choice. Must run Mighty Chudan, can't run Balorgh or Bloodspawn or any other viable choice. 2) No sustain, damage reduction, or defense class masteries. 3) No access to aoe CC or projectile reduction. The funny thing is this build is still using the best DK line.Edited by ceruulean on 7 August 2026 21:441 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭Pure class DK is still overall more stat dense and stronger than subclassed builds. Maybe the strongest subclass build for 1v1 is Aedric/Ardent/Grave Lord, but the build needs to sacrifice 1) monster helm choice. Must run Mighty Chudan, can't run Balorgh or Bloodspawn or any other viable choice. 2) No sustain, damage reduction, or defense class masteries. 3) No access to aoe CC or projectile reduction. The funny thing is this build is still using the best DK line.
DK > Every other Pure Class
DK > Every other subclass option
DK >>>>>3 -
decaffeinated✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Pure class DK is still overall more stat dense and stronger than subclassed builds. Maybe the strongest subclass build for 1v1 is Aedric/Ardent/Grave Lord, but the build needs to sacrifice 1) monster helm choice. Must run Mighty Chudan, can't run Balorgh or Bloodspawn or any other viable choice. 2) No sustain, damage reduction, or defense class masteries. 3) No access to aoe CC or projectile reduction. The funny thing is this build is still using the best DK line.
DK > Every other Pure Class
DK > Every other subclass option
DK >>>>>
DK == Sorc WW
Surprised that DK WW isn't stronger.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭decaffeinated wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Pure class DK is still overall more stat dense and stronger than subclassed builds. Maybe the strongest subclass build for 1v1 is Aedric/Ardent/Grave Lord, but the build needs to sacrifice 1) monster helm choice. Must run Mighty Chudan, can't run Balorgh or Bloodspawn or any other viable choice. 2) No sustain, damage reduction, or defense class masteries. 3) No access to aoe CC or projectile reduction. The funny thing is this build is still using the best DK line.
DK > Every other Pure Class
DK > Every other subclass option
DK >>>>>
DK == Sorc WW
Surprised that DK WW isn't stronger.
Even if you believe this, WW is getting nerfed, DK isn't being touched.3 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.2 -
albertberku✭✭✭✭Here is a 40k Gank by new DK in broad daylight from 20m distance. I just missed the leap animation for a split millisecond because my camera was placed badly at the moment. Could be someone that is standing behind you and completely outside your screen. Take Flight + Incinerate + Heart of Flame + Whip. 40k damage in 0.4 seconds. Half of the skills didnt even crit, could be even more. And the final whip was actually a 15k hit as can be seen in the video.
25k resistances, 3k crit resist, Major Protection, Pains Refuge, Daedric Protection.
If i were to attack them back, would i be able to do any kind of damage with 60k max magicka, 6k weapon power, 18k penetration, Minor Berserk, all damage CPs, using Curse, Bound Armaments, Crystal Frags and Overload, a complete kit of all my class damage abilities? No.
If we were to attack them multiple players, can they sustain whole fight under pressure while running at speed cap, blocking, roll dodging, healing constantly? Yes.
Can they run at speed cap unlimited amount of time? Yes.
Hp? 40k.
HoT? 6 - 8k.
Can heal from almost zero to full hp instantly? Yes.
This is not OK.
https://youtu.be/8HEsGPDUShw?is=ayGBC3I8Wsav-BzB
Cherry on Top Bonus Clip - Occasionally 2 seconds long Unbreakable Petrify (Luckily this time i lived long enough to clip the whole duration) :
https://youtu.be/Mj_E5yV0qNM?is=9iEhK8xdwIWvy7_A Edited by albertberku on 8 August 2026 15:203 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭albertberku wrote: »Here is a 40k Gank by new DK in broad daylight from 20m distance. Could be someone that is standing behind you and completely outside your screen. Take Flight + Incinerate + Heart of Flame + Whip.
25k resistances, 3k crit resist, Major Protection, Pains Refuge.https://youtu.be/8HEsGPDUShw?is=ayGBC3I8Wsav-BzB
Told you guys DK leap ganking is the way to be this patch. Those that don't know it yet soon will ...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
Edited by BardokRedSnow on 8 August 2026 14:31Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also I didn’t say nerfing 2 skills would put dk back to subclass levels… it’s already on subclass levels, that would put it under subclass levels. Subclassing is what is killing the game, until that is dismantled no drastic nerfs to anything should happen
That includes signet and werewolf imo.Edited by BardokRedSnow on 8 August 2026 14:42Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭albertberku wrote: »Here is a 40k Gank by new DK in broad daylight from 20m distance. I just missed the leap animation for a split millisecond because my camera was placed badly at the moment. Could be someone that is standing behind you and completely outside your screen. Take Flight + Incinerate + Heart of Flame + Whip. 40k damage in 0.4 seconds. Half of the skills didnt even crit, could be even more. And the final whip was actually a 15k hit as can be seen in the video.
25k resistances, 3k crit resist, Major Protection, Pains Refuge, Daedric Protection.
If i were to attack them back, would i be able to do any kind of damage with 60k max magicka, 6k weapon power, 18k penetration, Minor Berserk, all damage CPs, using Curse, Bound Armaments, Crystal Frags and Overload, a complete kit of all my class damage abilities? No.
If we were to attack them multiple players, can they sustain whole fight under pressure while running at speed cap, blocking, roll dodging, healing constantly? Yes.
Can they run at speed cap unlimited amount of time? Yes.
Hp? 40k.
HoT? 6 - 8k.
Can heal from almost zero to full hp instantly? Yes.
This is not OK.https://youtu.be/8HEsGPDUShw?is=ayGBC3I8Wsav-BzB
Well hold on now, that was the DAEDRIC PRINCE (of whips). Maybe he just ‘has a better gaming chair’.Edited by Wuuffyy on 8 August 2026 14:54Wuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!1 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
Your comments were already deleted because all you do when you argue is insult people. Can you show me videos of the person you're responding to sieging on the walls or do you have zero idea what you're saying again, and you just want to insult because you can't logically engage with anything?
DK is the strongest pure class and the strongest class to subclass into. If you had to play a pure class, not being DK would be a disadvantage, if you want to subclass and you are not already a DK, not using DK lines would be a disadvantage. DK has the best skills in the game for PvP at the moment unless your goal is to just run away, it has the highest single target damage, the highest sustain, it is extremely tanky, and doesn't really underperform anywhere. You keep going back to subclassing but your argument never makes any sense and has been shot down multiple times. Every player performing at the highest level will tell you DK is the strongest class for PvP, you are not an authority figure on it.3 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭albertberku wrote: »Here is a 40k Gank by new DK in broad daylight from 20m distance. I just missed the leap animation for a split millisecond because my camera was placed badly at the moment. Could be someone that is standing behind you and completely outside your screen. Take Flight + Incinerate + Heart of Flame + Whip. 40k damage in 0.4 seconds. Half of the skills didnt even crit, could be even more. And the final whip was actually a 15k hit as can be seen in the video.
25k resistances, 3k crit resist, Major Protection, Pains Refuge, Daedric Protection.
If i were to attack them back, would i be able to do any kind of damage with 60k max magicka, 6k weapon power, 18k penetration, Minor Berserk, all damage CPs, using Curse, Bound Armaments, Crystal Frags and Overload, a complete kit of all my class damage abilities? No.
If we were to attack them multiple players, can they sustain whole fight under pressure while running at speed cap, blocking, roll dodging, healing constantly? Yes.
Can they run at speed cap unlimited amount of time? Yes.
Hp? 40k.
HoT? 6 - 8k.
Can heal from almost zero to full hp instantly? Yes.
This is not OK.https://youtu.be/8HEsGPDUShw?is=ayGBC3I8Wsav-BzB
This is squish to any sort of ganker, you’d be gettin blasted regardlessZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭albertberku wrote: »Here is a 40k Gank by new DK in broad daylight from 20m distance. Could be someone that is standing behind you and completely outside your screen. Take Flight + Incinerate + Heart of Flame + Whip.
25k resistances, 3k crit resist, Major Protection, Pains Refuge.https://youtu.be/8HEsGPDUShw?is=ayGBC3I8Wsav-BzB
Told you guys DK leap ganking is the way to be this patch. Those that don't know it yet soon will ...
Yes, yes- use another damage mythic and pop a major force pot next patch
Insta-30k molten with bonk or corro depending on how you execute it.Edited by Wuuffyy on 8 August 2026 15:08Wuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class that
This is the part everyone just misses, not throwing shade at anyone, maybe at ZOS approach but… the “refreshes” are supposedly total overhauls, animations, complete reworks. While that is exciting and something we are all looking forward to, BALANCING should be done sooner than this. They don’t need to do a total refresh to bring some classes up to scale. They just need to buff some stuff to make them competitive. For whatever reason tho, ZOS does not do balance updates, even though that is the main thing we need in ESO."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations2 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
You can fire siege off the wall, you know. It's wild you insult me when we're on the same faction and I protect KC and Farra all the time by firing siege. Just ask AD, they love me. Lots. Though they still haven't found the siege shield button.
Also what you said does not refute anything. Again, it's more proof those two skills are out of line if every DK, even subclassed ones, take the skill line which contains both of them. If I am taking them on my subclassed "DoT" NB, it's a wrap.
Thanks for proving the point. Also you're wrong about something: pure class DK is the most powerful if you use a recursive build that wasn't nerfed on the PTS using Wildfire. I know because I'm cheesing archive with it, and it also is a problem in PvP with 0 counter and it kills people in 2-3 seconds.1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thanks for proving the point. Also you're wrong about something: pure class DK is the most powerful if you use a recursive build that wasn't nerfed on the PTS using Wildfire. I know because I'm cheesing archive with it, and it also is a problem in PvP with 0 counter and it kills people in 2-3 seconds.
And it’s not even a contest. lolDragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
You can fire siege off the wall, you know. It's wild you insult me when we're on the same faction and I protect KC and Farra all the time by firing siege. Just ask AD, they love me. Lots. Though they still haven't found the siege shield button.
Also what you said does not refute anything. Again, it's more proof those two skills are out of line if every DK, even subclassed ones, take the skill line which contains both of them. If I am taking them on my subclassed "DoT" NB, it's a wrap.
Thanks for proving the point. Also you're wrong about something: pure class DK is the most powerful if you use a recursive build that wasn't nerfed on the PTS using Wildfire. I know because I'm cheesing archive with it, and it also is a problem in PvP with 0 counter and it kills people in 2-3 seconds.
Its not an insult, it is something you state time and time again. Stating that for the record here before mods claim I am harassing or something, you yourself say all you do is siege. I think thats important in a discussion for class changes.
And I dont need to refute anyone here, you wouldn't know what I am talking about because we do not fight the same fights or the same people.
Pure class dk is just the most common build you see and encounter, that doesn't mean its actually the top performing build. And its not, IA is not the same as pvp at all, not by a long shot. Even bringing up that in a pvp discussion proves the point better than anything I could say.Edited by BardokRedSnow on 8 August 2026 17:50Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Im not even saying im against DK changes. In the very beginning of the thread I offered a trade which op actually liked- HoF being nerfed for og corrosive back. Even that was deemed not enough for some here, only gutting the class will satisfy those that apparently think 25k spell and physical resistance should be enough not to get ganked.
Two things can be true at the same time though, a class can be overperforming and the people complaining the most can be underperforming for entirely separate reasons than the former. In this case though its overperforming by design. The solution, have Zos do what they said they would do, bring up underperforming classes with bigger buffs to class masteries. Rather than gutting pure class dk and no longer being able to compete with the superior subclass builds, which is the whole point.
Half the time the same players claiming people they lose to are all pure classed, they're not and they cant even tell the difference.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
Your comments were already deleted because all you do when you argue is insult people.
I never insulted anyone, and my comments werent the only ones deleted. People get their feelings hurt from me quoting them, that is unfortunate but it doesn't make what I said an insult.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
You can fire siege off the wall, you know. It's wild you insult me when we're on the same faction and I protect KC and Farra all the time by firing siege. Just ask AD, they love me. Lots. Though they still haven't found the siege shield button.
Also what you said does not refute anything. Again, it's more proof those two skills are out of line if every DK, even subclassed ones, take the skill line which contains both of them. If I am taking them on my subclassed "DoT" NB, it's a wrap.
Thanks for proving the point. Also you're wrong about something: pure class DK is the most powerful if you use a recursive build that wasn't nerfed on the PTS using Wildfire. I know because I'm cheesing archive with it, and it also is a problem in PvP with 0 counter and it kills people in 2-3 seconds.
Its not an insult, it is something you state time and time again. Stating that for the record here before mods claim I am harassing or something, you yourself say all you do is siege. I think thats important in a discussion for class changes.
And I dont need to refute anyone here, you wouldn't know what I am talking about because we do not fight the same fights or the same people.
Pure class dk is just the most common build you see and encounter, that doesn't mean its actually the top performing build. And its not, IA is not the same as pvp at all, not by a long shot. Even bringing up that in a pvp discussion proves the point better than anything I could say.
All of the top Duelists are running Recursive builds because they statistically are the best...
They have the strongest burst heal, strongest sustain skill, strongest movement skill, strongest ultimates, the most combinable burst damage out of any Class, the strongest spammable, the strongest area denial, none of this is an opinion.
Everything that Dragonknight has… is the strongest.
Now you keep posting your opinions, and feel free!
Just know that anyone actually playing the game this past update does not take them serious in any capacity while you’re trying to scapegoat Subclassing as if all of the skills & passives of Dragonknight are not leagues ahead of everything. Giving up anything on Dragonknight does not make any sense at all because the class has it all.Dragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]3 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Oh I will, I could not care less what others here take seriously or not, this is an echochamber where people come to complain. Its not reflective of the actual player base.BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
You can fire siege off the wall, you know. It's wild you insult me when we're on the same faction and I protect KC and Farra all the time by firing siege. Just ask AD, they love me. Lots. Though they still haven't found the siege shield button.
Also what you said does not refute anything. Again, it's more proof those two skills are out of line if every DK, even subclassed ones, take the skill line which contains both of them. If I am taking them on my subclassed "DoT" NB, it's a wrap.
Thanks for proving the point. Also you're wrong about something: pure class DK is the most powerful if you use a recursive build that wasn't nerfed on the PTS using Wildfire. I know because I'm cheesing archive with it, and it also is a problem in PvP with 0 counter and it kills people in 2-3 seconds.
Its not an insult, it is something you state time and time again. Stating that for the record here before mods claim I am harassing or something, you yourself say all you do is siege. I think thats important in a discussion for class changes.
And I dont need to refute anyone here, you wouldn't know what I am talking about because we do not fight the same fights or the same people.
Pure class dk is just the most common build you see and encounter, that doesn't mean its actually the top performing build. And its not, IA is not the same as pvp at all, not by a long shot. Even bringing up that in a pvp discussion proves the point better than anything I could say.
Now you keep posting your opinions, and feel free!
I come here to counter all the people complaining about the next newest thing to upset them because unfortunately zos sees these forums and thinks its actually representative of reality and only now is starting to understand thats not the case.
I think many here realize that too and is why they react so harshly to a differing opinion. You say top duelers are pure classed, in my experience the only duelers I struggle with are subclassed. Pure class dk is not a problem compared to those, bgs cyrodiil or otherwise.
Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »
Oh I will, I could not care less what others here take seriously or not, this is an echochamber where people come to complain. Its not reflective of the actual player base.BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
You can fire siege off the wall, you know. It's wild you insult me when we're on the same faction and I protect KC and Farra all the time by firing siege. Just ask AD, they love me. Lots. Though they still haven't found the siege shield button.
Also what you said does not refute anything. Again, it's more proof those two skills are out of line if every DK, even subclassed ones, take the skill line which contains both of them. If I am taking them on my subclassed "DoT" NB, it's a wrap.
Thanks for proving the point. Also you're wrong about something: pure class DK is the most powerful if you use a recursive build that wasn't nerfed on the PTS using Wildfire. I know because I'm cheesing archive with it, and it also is a problem in PvP with 0 counter and it kills people in 2-3 seconds.
Its not an insult, it is something you state time and time again. Stating that for the record here before mods claim I am harassing or something, you yourself say all you do is siege. I think thats important in a discussion for class changes.
And I dont need to refute anyone here, you wouldn't know what I am talking about because we do not fight the same fights or the same people.
Pure class dk is just the most common build you see and encounter, that doesn't mean its actually the top performing build. And its not, IA is not the same as pvp at all, not by a long shot. Even bringing up that in a pvp discussion proves the point better than anything I could say.
Now you keep posting your opinions, and feel free!
I come here to counter all the people complaining about the next newest thing to upset them because unfortunately zos sees these forums and thinks its actually representative of reality and only now is starting to understand thats not the case.
I think many here realize that too and is why they react so harshly to a differing opinion. You say top duelers are pure classed, in my experience the only duelers I struggle with are subclassed. Pure class dk is not a problem compared to those, bgs cyrodiil or otherwise.
Funny you say that, because live data is more telling than anything.
At least 80% of the population on Xbox NA are playing either Dragonknight or Werewolf in Cyrodiil, Imperial City, or Battlegrounds.
Werewolf is becoming a lot less accessible through its excessive nerfs. There will be even more Dragonknights next update.Dragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »
Oh I will, I could not care less what others here take seriously or not, this is an echochamber where people come to complain. Its not reflective of the actual player base.BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »It’s only a real issue now cause the refresh delay. Nerfing DK will throw us back into the subclass meta which was way worse tbh. I’m tired of the DK meta, don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather live in this than the mutt meta we endured for a solid year.
Here’s a thought! Adjust some of the other class masteries like NB/Temp/Necro/Arc (NOW). That’s what they originally said they’d do, adjust them… it’s obvious which classes are suffering.
NB rework should be pushed up as well since it really is the class that has a problem in PvE, a class thatBardokRedSnow wrote: »As for this being 8 months ago, their message, I dont see why that even matters, subclass builds in the hands of top players still outperform pureclass dk and werewolf, and is still an issue for balance to the game. That the initiative was 8 months ago is pretty irrelevant. Nerfing pureclass dk and ww to a state that cant compete with subclassing at all is not just counterintuitive to zos' goal but its also likely to one shot the game's lifespan considering thats what nearly happened BEFORE the existing layoffs.
You think you're mad now lol if we return to subclass builds being the norm of what you see itll be far worse than the meta is now. Adapt, its really not hard to now especially.
Don't know what universe you are in, but on PC NA nearly all of the "top" players are playing DKBardokRedSnow wrote: »Thats also why zos insists on buffing the other classes by using the class masteries mostly compared to just buffing their individual skills independent of it, so that subclassing doesnt inadvertently grow stronger. Pure class isnt meta right now, its still subclassing. Complaining about pure class dk compared to other pure classes is besides the point. You nerf dk down to pre refresh levels yall will be just complaining about the subclassed builds next that totally replaces them
Forest for the trees.
If nerfing 2 skills nerfs DK back down to subclass levels it literally proves those two skills were OP.
Then why don’t you play one and stop sieging on the walls, it might give you some new perspective
Having fought top players I know that’s not true, they’re subclassed builds which yea includes a line of dk half the time but not all the time. Plenty of them are just sorcs, no dk line at all
You can fire siege off the wall, you know. It's wild you insult me when we're on the same faction and I protect KC and Farra all the time by firing siege. Just ask AD, they love me. Lots. Though they still haven't found the siege shield button.
Also what you said does not refute anything. Again, it's more proof those two skills are out of line if every DK, even subclassed ones, take the skill line which contains both of them. If I am taking them on my subclassed "DoT" NB, it's a wrap.
Thanks for proving the point. Also you're wrong about something: pure class DK is the most powerful if you use a recursive build that wasn't nerfed on the PTS using Wildfire. I know because I'm cheesing archive with it, and it also is a problem in PvP with 0 counter and it kills people in 2-3 seconds.
Its not an insult, it is something you state time and time again. Stating that for the record here before mods claim I am harassing or something, you yourself say all you do is siege. I think thats important in a discussion for class changes.
And I dont need to refute anyone here, you wouldn't know what I am talking about because we do not fight the same fights or the same people.
Pure class dk is just the most common build you see and encounter, that doesn't mean its actually the top performing build. And its not, IA is not the same as pvp at all, not by a long shot. Even bringing up that in a pvp discussion proves the point better than anything I could say.
Now you keep posting your opinions, and feel free!
I come here to counter all the people complaining about the next newest thing to upset them because unfortunately zos sees these forums and thinks its actually representative of reality and only now is starting to understand thats not the case.
I think many here realize that too and is why they react so harshly to a differing opinion. You say top duelers are pure classed, in my experience the only duelers I struggle with are subclassed. Pure class dk is not a problem compared to those, bgs cyrodiil or otherwise.
Funny you say that, because live data is more telling than anything.
At least 80% of the population on Xbox NA are playing either Dragonknight or Werewolf in Cyrodiil, Imperial City, or Battlegrounds.
Werewolf is becoming a lot less accessible through its excessive nerfs. There will be even more Dragonknights next update.
They’re also the newest reworked classes for one and for two I doubt their metrics account for subclassed dkZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭“Class” in relation to werewolfZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think people here underestimate just how much subclassing was hated, as soon as alternatives were introduced, waves of players came back to play in numbers so big Cyrodiil had numbers almost like mym. The same increase will happen with warden, as will the amount of complaining
Here specificallyEdited by BardokRedSnow on 8 August 2026 18:27Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0