BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

Did you come there in proper PVP builds?

Yes, we were in there with proper PVP builds. We're not a newbie PVP guild, we know what we're doing. We have a lot of experienced bombers and gankers.

uh you do realize that Bombers and gankers are EXTREMELY squishy, right? Not very good to bring in squishy builds into IC... especially when you have currency that you want to fight and protect with the risk of losing half.

I can see why you and your group are salty about the new U50 werewolves... ya can't gank or bomb people who have werewolves in their groups anymore LOL.

I spend a lot of time on my ganker and on the receiving end, i can confirm that a single WW can keep up that detection with almost 100% uptime while moving at speed cap and spamming gap closers for minutes. And their detection radius is at least as big as detect pots. Needless to say, this is beyond BS.

You may say i play a ganker but how on earth a pure nightblade, a normal class suppose to play the way the class was initially intended with the current state of PvP ?

albertberku wrote: »

I spend a lot of time on my ganker and on the receiving end, i can confirm that a single WW can keep up that detection with almost 100% uptime while moving at speed cap and spamming gap closers for minutes. And their detection radius is at least as big as detect pots. Needless to say, this is beyond BS.

You may say i play a ganker but how on earth a pure nightblade, a normal class suppose to play the way the class was initially intended with the current state of PvP ?

So you're upset that you're struggling to gank unsuspecting, unbuffed people riding their horses because of the current state of PvP?

albertberku wrote: »

I am not really struggling with ganking tbh. If absolutely nothing works out you can always wait until someone is in the middle of a heated fight if you really have to gank them. Or you know you can just play a 40k hp DK instead to gank people during the broad daylight

I am just pointing out that how WW detection implemented is not healthy for the general PvP gameplay.

I'd argue it is actually healthy for PvP because people whose gameplay relies on being in stealth 24/7 now has to be mindful of other players instead of expecting a win going into a fight.

If you complain about cloak, run shade. There is not world in which any nightblade here can tell me they are consistently running at groups and never being detected (regardless of werewolf)

I used to main NB and currently have a pureclass soul cleaver setup and a ‘stam blade’ setup. Both of these builds use shade and I get along very well (for what NB is capable of in general nowadays).

Werewolf detect (as I mentioned earlier) doesn’t pop you out of stealth. They must first ‘reveal’ you and then hit you with a melee move (as is the nature of werewolf). Even if they ‘spam’ detect- just proc whatever you need around a corner (no wide open field for ganking on a NB), drop shade, go in and return once done; if used correctly- the shade alone and moving away should be enough to evade (but then cloak will be far more effective as well if used after doing this)

albertberku wrote: »

How do you plan to fight against a WW as pure NB on open field? You are not faster, you have 28m shade, they have 22m gap closer. You have less health, you have less sustain, you dont have better damage. You cant use Cloak. You cant burst them. You cant outrun them. They would just chase you whole fight with 100% detection uptime. Yes, you can run around structures, but you dont have to be a NB necessarily to be able to do that.

You have to think for once instead of using only cloak for all of the heavy lifting. As always, properly pick your engagements.

What have y’all done all this time as cloak usability has become more and more happenstance (EVEN before wolf rework)? Just hop on the forums and complain while changing nothing and doing everything the exact same?

For the record, this is coming from a 5-star NB with 257 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, and 56 seconds of playtime over the course of little over decade playing the game. I would like to think I’m at least qualified to tell you that cloak hasn’t ‘functioned’ in a long while, completely independent of wolf.

albertberku wrote: »

And if it didnt function well anyway, what was the exact reasoning to nerf it even further?

Brother, it isn’t a ‘nerf’ to you. It’s giving wolf a rightful defect when everyone else has access to one. Get a grip and adapt.

albertberku wrote: »

Everyone has one? Which class in the game has detect?

Here, I wasted a significant amount of water to display the obvious:

albertberku wrote: »

Cant you use Item sets or potions in WW form?

And other detect skills are 10m radius skills at most for couple seconds which you need to reuse to keep up. You are comparing currently the strongest detect in the game with the least effective detect abilities.

We have no access to a detect whatsoever outside of Prowl, whereas everyone else does in multiple ways (PLUS AoEs like DKs armor buff in a wide and general radius, for example). Are you saying you’d rather have werewolves just permanently pull you out of stealth then? I’d be on board for that, let’s see how you adapt if you can’t even handle a self-reveal from a melee character.

By the way, detects (and likewise wolf detect) is only 43ish meters. Don’t know where you’re pulling your info from.



What you are saying is called ‘Gish Galloping’ or ‘moving the goalposts’. I’d like to think I’ve proved my point with factual information and relevant credibility without needing to go back and forth with you any further (unless I choose to)

albertberku wrote: »

What is exactly the difference if you are still invisible or not for the moment if someone from the group runs directly towards at you whole time? They will never lose track of you.

WW detect is longer than 43.5m. It could be a bug, but you can try it for yourself.

If it is longer than a defect, this should be fixed as they stated it should be exactly the range of a defect. Can you actually demonstrate this using a video (detect pot versus ‘sniff’)??

It is entirely different if only your opponent can see you. It gives you ample time to ‘make your move’ regardless of what they’re doing, especially with immoves. This whereas camo hunter, mage light, flare will flat-out disable your ability to use cloak directly in front of whoever you’re targeting.

The sentry set is best used in human form, specifically by a player in a group with an extra purpose (maybe negate, maybe buff set, etc.) with a frost destro (as you can freely ‘range poke’ a NB out of stealth… trust me, I’d know)

albertberku wrote: »

I will make a clip of it next time it happens. But the chasing happening there isnt comparable to detect pots, it definitely has the Sentry Set chasing feeling, where your enemy just runs directly at you from accross the map.

Proof that werewolf has the exact same range as a normal detect against a cloaked nightblade:

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/yJZCtvUPhJ

For further context, even I was confused on the range of both so I did a search on that also:

albertberku wrote: »

Hmm, haha that actually shows it quite good, thanks for the test. Then i was wrong with the WW detection range. I know it is 40m for detect pots but i didnt know there was a distinction between cloak and stealth. In the research you made it says 20m for cloak and 40m for stealth. So for cloaked targets detect pot range is actually half as the tooltip of the detect pot? And if that is like that is it also same for WW detection?

I dont play a character with Cloak, and my ganker is using vamp invisibilty, invisible pots or stealth, and there i believe detection range is the whole 40m, but i never actually tested with Cloak itself. I thought there is no distinction in terms of range.

So, Cloak max detectable range is around 20m ? Even with detect pots or WW detect. Or is it same as stealth, which is 40m ?

If cloak has 20m detect only, i am going to change my mind here and say WW detect is not too extreme (still strong but not extremely).

That range was relatively short. Based on what ZOS mentioned (werewolf reveal mirrors detect), it would be the same regardless however (for detects or wolf).

Assuming then 20 meters then for both (detect and werewolf ‘sniff’) on cloak and ergo 40 meters on regular stealth (which has also been my rough experience on that matter I.E. I have not personally noticed detecting non-cloak, stealthed players at exorbitant ranges).

I suppose I could actually test that individually but it’s behaving exactly like it should for cloak based on this, so again I don’t personally believe it’d be any different for ‘regular stealth’ than a detect pot (so 40m)+ cloak is the important one (to test) anyway with it being both class-based and requiring a skill slot.

*edit: as far as dueling goes (so I flagged down out of IC) it’s really buggy trying to test with actual sneak (and I don’t think the bugginess is translated in an actual PvP environment). I’ll try and test against normal stealth later, if I remember.

albertberku wrote: »

I am not really struggling with ganking tbh. If absolutely nothing works out you can always wait until someone is in the middle of a heated fight if you really have to gank them. Or you know you can just play a 40k hp DK instead to gank people during the broad daylight

I am just pointing out that how WW detection implemented is not healthy for the general PvP gameplay.

You're not explaining why WW detection is harming general PvP. I've already explained what a werewolf is.
If you missed out on my post... go check it out https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8512160/#Comment_8512160

U50 actually brought life into the werewolves because before.. it didn't feel like I was playing as one. We can actually play as an apex predator now with the detection feature to sniff out prey. I can only hope that ZOS would implement a tracking feature too, so we can track down prey too. The only class that I see having a bit of a problem with this new feature is those with nightblades who heavily rely on cloak as their spammable. I understand the pain since I used to play as a stealthy nightblade, and I would heavily rely on cloak. I had to break the nasty habit... even forced myself to play other classes to break the cycle. It's just not a good habit to get into while in Cyrodil.