Two major Tribute changes to consider

JHartEllis · July 19

1) Make all decks freely available to all players. It's safe to say Tribute isn't as popular as devs hoped, and the deck fragment chase ends up being a lot of pushy negative touchpoints for players completely uninterested in it. Many that might be interested feel like they are at a disadvantage without all the decks and quickly lose interest. There would be additional non-ESO players that might give ESO a shot just for the newly accessible card game. For current Tribute players with most/all the decks, this should expand the pool of potential players and shorten queues.

2) Make all cards and actions visible to both players. This shifts the dynamic entirely to strategy and tavern choices and playing around what your opponent can do without the uncertainty of what the opponent might be able to do. ToT will continue to wither on the vine without a Spectate mode, and this makes this relatively easy as just being able to effectively share one of the player's view.

Usureki · July 20

I humbly disagree on.. basically everything in this post

ToT is pretty popular, I usually have to wait less than a minute to find a partner to play with. Compared to e.g. Battlegrounds, I don't see a problem.

1. You are playing from the same deck. If your version of the deck contains weaker cards it will be added to the same deck you are both playing the game from. If someone upgrades their card, that upgraded card will be available in a game for the other player as well. Also I find it rather cool that a "mini-game" such as ToT has such a great connection to the living world of Tamriel by having these unlockables those are also giving a sense of progression to this part of the game. Having everything available for free would throw all this to the bin.

2. While playing with open hands could be an option, I don't think it should be forced. If 100% of the cards available are visible, then the most optimal step can be algorithmically estimated, ripping the play from the game. There is a reason you don't play most card games with an open hand.

JHartEllis · July 20

Usureki wrote: »

throw all this to the bin.

This is mostly about preventing that from actually happening. I can foresee an alternative where ToT is so unpopular they essentially scrub it from the game.

then the most optimal step can be algorithmically estimated

That's true already, it just shifts the weights a bit. It makes the gameplay more about the tavern.

Personofsecrets · July 25

One thing that should be considered is how card morphs would be handled if all decks were given out. The morphs are strategically bad options in several cases that Ive found. If players are given all decks in a newly developed way, the option to not morph some cards should remain.

SilverBride · July 25

I disagree with making all cards and actions visible to both players. We aren't supposed to know what cards our opponent is holding. I can't imagine playing poker or gin rummy that way. The suspense is the fun part of the game.

ESO_player123 · July 25

SilverBride wrote: »

I disagree with making all cards and actions visible to both players. We aren't supposed to know what cards our opponent is holding. I can't imagine playing poker or gin rummy that way. The suspense is the fun part of the game.

I agree with this.

JHartEllis · July 26

Personofsecrets wrote: »

One thing that should be considered is how card morphs would be handled if all decks were given out. The morphs are strategically bad options in several cases that Ive found. If players are given all decks in a newly developed way, the option to not morph some cards should remain.

If the devs were to go this route, it would be more than likely that the upgrade scheme would be swept up into it and retired or given freely. Options are "nice to haves" that pollute the appeal further when the most common complaint is that people "just don't get it." Forks complicate and confuse more than give the illusion of choice.

Personofsecrets · July 26

JHartEllis wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

One thing that should be considered is how card morphs would be handled if all decks were given out. The morphs are strategically bad options in several cases that Ive found. If players are given all decks in a newly developed way, the option to not morph some cards should remain.

If the devs were to go this route, it would be more than likely that the upgrade scheme would be swept up into it and retired or given freely. Options are "nice to haves" that pollute the appeal further when the most common complaint is that people "just don't get it." Forks complicate and confuse more than give the illusion of choice.

Of course they should review balance in any case. I play alot of Almalexia and would dislike having to use Almsivi's Charity since I think that it's too good. Though the idea of getting rid of morphs is interesting since it would get rid of unecessary variance. The development of ToT balance was done via an Excel spreadsheet. So I'm a bit surprised that by how many morphs are a class above their counterparts by what should have been at least a full point value in their spreadsheet. I don't really get how they could have been seen as okay for some of the morphs.

Anyhow, it would be nice if the achievements were not tied to morphs. There are a number of achievementst that I won't get since I refuse to add the above disccussed variance, permanently, to my decks. The couple of cases that I morphed cards before fully understanding the consequence, Vestments and Relicmaster, I really regret.

The idea about options polluting the game is interesting since there are some entire Patrons that play in ways that don't really feel like ToT and could stand to be standardized. I'm certain that Mora contract chains, the Mora patron effect, The Alessia patron effect, and maybe even some Alessia cards could be confusing to players since they are so different compared to the base game and lend themselves to wildly different strategies compared to the more normal experience. At the very least, those things cause bad experiences that alot of players may feel slighted by.